Senior Bowl

[AZ54]

Time to kick off the draft process...  I've only just begun looking into draft prospects and there are already some names on this list I'd love to draft like Walter Nolen.  TJ Sanders.  Deone Walker at 6'6" 345lbs is a unicorn as a pass rusher but why can't he stop the run?   I gotta start digging into the other names on this list.  

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2025/01/23/senior-bowl-2025-edge-idl-primer

[Mongo3451]

27 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Time to kick off the draft process...  I've only just begun looking into draft prospects and there are already some names on this list I'd love to draft like Walter Nolen.  TJ Sanders.  Deone Walker at 6'6" 345lbs is a unicorn as a pass rusher but why can't he stop the run?   I gotta start digging into the other names on this list.  

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2025/01/23/senior-bowl-2025-edge-idl-primer

Big dude for me last year was T'Vondre Sweat. I called him, Big Sweat.  Absolute freak at the combine.  Deone Walker looks the same so far...

[Stinger226]

Another big guy is Alfred Collins, huge man. If we get one of those big body choices our interior will tighten up quickly in the run game. Kenneth Grant weights 339 also.

[AZ54]

Lots of defensive studs all around.  What's great is that we'll get to see their 1v1 against Oline prospects.   In many years you're hoping to see Oline get some 1v1 against a top defensive prospect but those happens infrequently.   This year these Oline guys are not getting a break on any reps.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Lots of defensive studs all around.  What's great is that we'll get to see their 1v1 against Oline prospects.   In many years you're hoping to see Oline get some 1v1 against a top defensive prospect but those happens infrequently.   This year these Oline guys are not getting a break on any reps.  

good point. this will help us on both sides of the ball.

we're also going to have to get some free agents, and while I'm tempted to say Poles' luck with free agents isn't great, the truth is free agents are hit and miss for everyone. Teams don't willingly let their best players go, and as my dad always says when Im talking up some new free agent we signed "theres a reason the other team let them go" - true as often as not.

Let's hope our new staff have a good eye for linemen!

[Stinger226]

23 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

good point. this will help us on both sides of the ball.

we're also going to have to get some free agents, and while I'm tempted to say Poles' luck with free agents isn't great, the truth is free agents are hit and miss for everyone. Teams don't willingly let their best players go, and as my dad always says when Im talking up some new free agent we signed "theres a reason the other team let them go" - true as often as not.

Let's hope our new staff have a good eye for linemen!

I remember we went after McGlinchey but he wouldn't pay  over 12 mil and thank God Denver paid more, 5/87.5 mil. Free agency rarely gets value.

[AZ54]

13 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I remember we went after McGlinchey but he wouldn't pay  over 12 mil and thank God Denver paid more, 5/87.5 mil. Free agency rarely gets value.

I always felt McGlinchey was too stiff and over-rated.  I was glad Poles was out bid.  

[AZ54]

I'm definitely watching Zabel throughout this draft process as a future OC prospect.  DT Deone Walker is another one to watch ... why is he so poor at run defense and great at pass rush?  Like Dexter is coaching/scheme part of the issue?  

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2025/01/28/senior-bowl-2025-biggest-winners-practice-day-1

[Mongo3451]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I'm definitely watching Zabel throughout this draft process as a future OC prospect.  DT Deone Walker is another one to watch ... why is he so poor at run defense and great at pass rush?  Like Dexter is coaching/scheme part of the issue?  

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2025/01/28/senior-bowl-2025-biggest-winners-practice-day-1

I was watching Walker today.  In another thread, I mentioned he may this year's T'Vondre Sweat.  Not close at all.  He's terrible.  Plays upright and slow as molasses.  His stock is falling.

However, there were four 3 techs that looked very promising.  We'll have our chance at getting our fill of IOL and DT in this draft.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I'm definitely watching Zabel throughout this draft process as a future OC prospect.  DT Deone Walker is another one to watch ... why is he so poor at run defense and great at pass rush?  Like Dexter is coaching/scheme part of the issue?  

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2025/01/28/senior-bowl-2025-biggest-winners-practice-day-1

Zabel was just mentioned on the score and a name I have not seen or heard before at C, so I am intrigued.   Looks like a round 2 prospect.  Would you take Campbell as LT/G round 1, DT/DE round 2a and Zabel 2b?  Give Campbell a look at LT as he dominated college, but knowing his length is more ideal inside. Or trade down a little and take a risk on Josh Simmons LT from Ohio St.  At D-line, I guess it depends on how they see Booker developing at DE.  The defense dipped after Billings went down and a strong man next to Dexter is critical, so maybe Walker can develop. 

[AZ54]

29 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Zabel was just mentioned on the score and a name I have not seen or heard before at C, so I am intrigued.   Looks like a round 2 prospect.  Would you take Campbell as LT/G round 1, DT/DE round 2a and Zabel 2b?  Give Campbell a look at LT as he dominated college, but knowing his length is more ideal inside. Or trade down a little and take a risk on Josh Simmons LT from Ohio St.  At D-line, I guess it depends on how they see Booker developing at DE.  The defense dipped after Billings went down and a strong man next to Dexter is critical, so maybe Walker can develop. 

I prefer to fix Oline in FA then add to it via the draft.  Caleb doesn’t need a bunch of rookies in front of him while he is learning a new offense.  Dline  has the talent in the first go get a good one.  

[Mongo3451]

24 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I prefer to fix Oline in FA then add to it via the draft.  Caleb doesn’t need a bunch of rookies in front of him while he is learning a new offense.  Dline  has the talent in the first go get a good one.  

This is a solid approach.  Draft EDGE early and the IOL and DT's are deep to follow.  If you have solid veterans and bring in studs to push them, it's the best of both worlds.

[Stinger226]

56 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Zabel was just mentioned on the score and a name I have not seen or heard before at C, so I am intrigued.   Looks like a round 2 prospect.  Would you take Campbell as LT/G round 1, DT/DE round 2a and Zabel 2b?  Give Campbell a look at LT as he dominated college, but knowing his length is more ideal inside. Or trade down a little and take a risk on Josh Simmons LT from Ohio St.  At D-line, I guess it depends on how they see Booker developing at DE.  The defense dipped after Billings went down and a strong man next to Dexter is critical, so maybe Walker can develop. 

I would love that scenario. Also I have seen where Marus Mbow is a OT from Purdue that is a center candidate. A second or third round pick. 

[Stinger226]

31 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I prefer to fix Oline in FA then add to it via the draft.  Caleb doesn’t need a bunch of rookies in front of him while he is learning a new offense.  Dline  has the talent in the first go get a good one.  

My best case scenario is signing a Trey Smith or Kevin Zeilter RG, bring back Shelton and and draft a multiple position OL, that could fit where you need him and draft a center prospect to sit behind Shelton until he's ready. 

[BearFan PHX]

It's too bad we don't have our OL coach already in the mix to put eyes on these guys.

[AZ54]

14 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

It's too bad we don't have our OL coach already in the mix to put eyes on these guys.

I don't think most oline coaches go to the Senior bowl practices.   In either case every single rep and meeting is filmed and the entire NFL gets access to all of it.  Regardless what matters more is game film, and I know you agree on that.  Senior Bowl and combine stuff should just backs up what you see on film.  

I saw one mock with us taking the LT from Ohio State at 10 overall.  They said without his knee injury he would have never lasted until 10.  Seems like a bit of hyperbole since I haven't seen much on him to date.  Usually when a top 5 talent goes down with an injury the whole draft world is talking about it.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I prefer to fix Oline in FA then add to it via the draft.  Caleb doesn’t need a bunch of rookies in front of him while he is learning a new offense.  Dline  has the talent in the first go get a good one.  

They need both. Could even be free agency, trade and draft. But I am in the camp of upgrade the interior and that will make a huge difference. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I prefer to fix Oline in FA then add to it via the draft.  Caleb doesn’t need a bunch of rookies in front of him while he is learning a new offense.  Dline  has the talent in the first go get a good one.  

The other thing I’d say - if they see value at LT or Edge at 10 - grab it (or a stud interior linemen)…otherwise slide down and pick up a 2nd and than go stud interior (dline or guard) knowing you now have 3 2nd rounders to make real plays for interior line, maybe db or back, speed receiver etc - but at least 2 linemen in this scenario and than another in the 3rd or 4th. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

I don't think most oline coaches go to the Senior bowl practices.   In either case every single rep and meeting is filmed and the entire NFL gets access to all of it.  Regardless what matters more is game film, and I know you agree on that.  Senior Bowl and combine stuff should just backs up what you see on film.  

I saw one mock with us taking the LT from Ohio State at 10 overall.  They said without his knee injury he would have never lasted until 10.  Seems like a bit of hyperbole since I haven't seen much on him to date.  Usually when a top 5 talent goes down with an injury the whole draft world is talking about it.  

He is the one on my list cause he seems to be the one who might project as a top 7 type of LT. 

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I don't think most oline coaches go to the Senior bowl practices.   In either case every single rep and meeting is filmed and the entire NFL gets access to all of it.  Regardless what matters more is game film, and I know you agree on that.  Senior Bowl and combine stuff should just backs up what you see on film.  

I saw one mock with us taking the LT from Ohio State at 10 overall.  They said without his knee injury he would have never lasted until 10.  Seems like a bit of hyperbole since I haven't seen much on him to date.  Usually when a top 5 talent goes down with an injury the whole draft world is talking about it.  

I read about him and last year  gave up one sack and this year got hurt in the 6th  game. Many draftniks said if not hurt would have been the top rated OT. I don't think the injury will prevent him from not going to training camps 

A 5 star recruit out of college 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I don't think most oline coaches go to the Senior bowl practices.   In either case every single rep and meeting is filmed and the entire NFL gets access to all of it.  Regardless what matters more is game film, and I know you agree on that.  Senior Bowl and combine stuff should just backs up what you see on film.

youre right I DO agree with that!

I just think sometimes getting a feel for their personalities, how coachable they are etc is helpful too. When we've been coaches at the senior bowl, or east west game, I think weve found that valuable.

But yeah, its not a huge deal at all.

[Mongo3451]

A couple of unheard-of names to look at.  Gray Zabel and Hollin Pierce.  Zabel was a tackle the senior bowl coaches moved inside and excelled at C and OG.  Pierce is a monster at 6'8 with almost 37"arms.

[BearFan PHX]

35 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

A couple of unheard-of names to look at.  Gray Zabel and Hollin Pierce.  Zabel was a tackle the senior bowl coaches moved inside and excelled at C and OG.  Pierce is a monster at 6'8 with almost 37"arms.

I don't know Pierce at all, so this is a generalized comment, but one of the concerns with Alt was that he was too tall, and could have problems getting his pads low enough for leverage. I love the idea of a monster OL, but for some players, they can actually be too tall? Again, not talking about Alt or Pierce, just a general comment.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I don't know Pierce at all, so this is a generalized comment, but one of the concerns with Alt was that he was too tall, and could have problems getting his pads low enough for leverage. I love the idea of a monster OL, but for some players, they can actually be too tall? Again, not talking about Alt or Pierce, just a general comment.

Yes if you can't bend at the knees and maintain your balance it's a problem.  Those long arms can offset the problem IF he's quick and accurate with his hand placement.  Ain't nobody measuring hand quickness and accuracy at the combine.   I'm as far from an expert as you can find but it seems to me the OTs who make pass pro look easy are the best with their hand placement and timing.    

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I don't know Pierce at all, so this is a generalized comment, but one of the concerns with Alt was that he was too tall, and could have problems getting his pads low enough for leverage. I love the idea of a monster OL, but for some players, they can actually be too tall? Again, not talking about Alt or Pierce, just a general comment.

Jordan Mialata is 6'8 as well.  If the hips dip and swivel, it's all good.