DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 In my mind I see Bears doing following: Free Agent Starters: FA center (Falcons or Colts centers) FA guard (Chiefs guard is the big swing) DE (Chase Young is my big) FA guard (Zeitler) Depth moves: Depth DT (lower cost - but run stuffer type for depth behind Billings / ensure flexibility in draft) Depth WR (Tim Patrick) Depth Oline (swing tackle and guard - my guess is Pryor is back) This gives Bears a TON of flexibility when they get into draft as interior oline would be significantly revamped with pass rush also upgraded. Allows Bears to swing a few shots but be in a position where they could develop as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 The Packers center is available too. And we have all been watching this long enough to know that you NEVER go into the draft with "holes" you always bring in free agents so you dont have to reach at a position. When we brought in Glennon for example, everyone thought it was a mistake because he wasnt that good, but the plan was for Trubisky to take the starting position from him. When we brought in Dalton, same thing. Some fans thought they were serious contenders to start, especially because of the money we paid them, but it is often true that you bring in free agents, only to draft their replacements soon after. So yes, I expect lots of free agents before the draft to fill every "need" position. Many will be backup quality, or borderline journeyman starter types, and not big money guys, but we wont go into the draft bare. We never do. So I expect those signings, and I also think we should evaluate those guys (in some cases) as depth and contingency guys, rather than swing and miss guys when they dont work out. It gives you the flexibility to go BPA at least somewhat, so you dont have to reach to fill holes. And doubly so if we are trading down on draft day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 the big money all pro type free agents... before throwing large amounts of cap space at single players they need to do the following: 1. evaluate how the quality of the player they plan on acquiring works with the players next to him. if it was the guard from KC for top dollar, how is he going to work with the center and tackle playing next to him in chicago? is he suited to still play at an all pro level with them? how do they compare to the players on the team he is leaving as far as skill sets that will utilize all of this FA's talent? this is also true on defensive FA's. i realize the players on our team might not be of the same quality but how do they work together with the big payday player is critical. 2. scheme: how will this FA relate to the the scheme we are going to run here? if it's not the same and he has to adjust will that also equate to his playing at an all pro level? 3. if we are looking at an OL free agent how does the skills of our QB compare to what his requirements were to protect the QB on the team he is leaving? scramble ability, quick release etc. 4. assume this FA will be playing at the same position he did before leaving. if not do we end up like we did with the all pro right tackle we acquired a number of years ago for big money and switched him to become a mediocre left tackle (can't remember the name at the moment()? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said: the big money all pro type free agents... before throwing large amounts of cap space at single players they need to do the following: 1. evaluate how the quality of the player they plan on acquiring works with the players next to him. if it was the guard from KC for top dollar, how is he going to work with the center and tackle playing next to him in chicago? is he suited to still play at an all pro level with them? how do they compare to the players on the team he is leaving as far as skill sets that will utilize all of this FA's talent? this is also true on defensive FA's. i realize the players on our team might not be of the same quality but how do they work together with the big payday player is critical. 2. scheme: how will this FA relate to the the scheme we are going to run here? if it's not the same and he has to adjust will that also equate to his playing at an all pro level? 3. if we are looking at an OL free agent how does the skills of our QB compare to what his requirements were to protect the QB on the team he is leaving? scramble ability, quick release etc. 4. assume this FA will be playing at the same position he did before leaving. if not do we end up like we did with the all pro right tackle we acquired a number of years ago for big money and switched him to become a mediocre left tackle (can't remember the name at the moment()? smart stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 12 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: In my mind I see Bears doing following: Free Agent Starters: FA center (Falcons or Colts centers) FA guard (Chiefs guard is the big swing) DE (Chase Young is my big) FA guard (Zeitler) Depth moves: Depth DT (lower cost - but run stuffer type for depth behind Billings / ensure flexibility in draft) Depth WR (Tim Patrick) Depth Oline (swing tackle and guard - my guess is Pryor is back) This gives Bears a TON of flexibility when they get into draft as interior oline would be significantly revamped with pass rush also upgraded. Allows Bears to swing a few shots but be in a position where they could develop as well. I’m ok with Coleman Shelton for another year and drafting his replacement. The other FA centers are not significantly better, if at all, so put our money in a place where we will get much more improvement for our $$$. I’m also not opposed to bringing back Jenkins on a short term deal if it’s reasonable. While drafting his replacement too. I believe better coaching can help him avoid his occasional missteps. I get the injury concern but that’s what keeps him away from the big money. You can swap in any second tier FA LG too, just stick to the budget and draft the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 16 minutes ago, AZ54 said: I’m ok with Coleman Shelton for another year and drafting his replacement. The other FA centers are not significantly better, if at all, so put our money in a place where we will get much more improvement for our $$$. I’m also not opposed to bringing back Jenkins on a short term deal if it’s reasonable. While drafting his replacement too. I believe better coaching can help him avoid his occasional missteps. I get the injury concern but that’s what keeps him away from the big money. You can swap in any second tier FA LG too, just stick to the budget and draft the future. Im surprised to hear you say this. I would have guessed that you were a "replace everyone" kind of guy as it relates to this position room right now. I dont necessarily disagree about Shelton, but i do think bringing Jenkins back is a mistake. He's just too injured, and i think he gives a false sense of security that the position is addressed. Now if it's a really friendly deal, and youre expecting a rookie to replace him by like week 6 or something, then I understand it. I did just write about filling holes short term pre draft, but i worry about relying on him too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: Im surprised to hear you say this. I would have guessed that you were a "replace everyone" kind of guy as it relates to this position room right now. I dont necessarily disagree about Shelton, but i do think bringing Jenkins back is a mistake. He's just too injured, and i think he gives a false sense of security that the position is addressed. Now if it's a really friendly deal, and youre expecting a rookie to replace him by like week 6 or something, then I understand it. I did just write about filling holes short term pre draft, but i worry about relying on him too much? 1) Over the years I've just come to learn how often one man's trash is another man's treasure turns out to be false. They were let go or allowed to leave for a reason. See Nate Davis as the latest example. 2). I also think FAs tend to dip down in performance their first year on a new team. That's not always true... see DJ Moore. Moving to a new place, living in an apartment or temp location, maybe with a family in tow, new scheme, new teammates, etc. it's natural. However, that does not make me against FA or trades for players.... it just makes me more cautious and, to the point you're making, I'd say less optimistic that the new guy is "game changing" better. In Jenkins case I have to weigh the chance he improves with better coaching, as can any FA, against his potential ceiling vs. the FAs ceiling. Either way we go I still want to build our future IOL via the next 2 drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 29 minutes ago, AZ54 said: 1) Over the years I've just come to learn how often one man's trash is another man's treasure turns out to be false. They were let go or allowed to leave for a reason. See Nate Davis as the latest example. 2). I also think FAs tend to dip down in performance their first year on a new team. That's not always true... see DJ Moore. Moving to a new place, living in an apartment or temp location, maybe with a family in tow, new scheme, new teammates, etc. it's natural. However, that does not make me against FA or trades for players.... it just makes me more cautious and, to the point you're making, I'd say less optimistic that the new guy is "game changing" better. In Jenkins case I have to weigh the chance he improves with better coaching, as can any FA, against his potential ceiling vs. the FAs ceiling. Either way we go I still want to build our future IOL via the next 2 drafts. I was thinking of people like Zeitler - good vet and Johnson knows him. Long in his tooth. Lions I’m sure will try to retain. Chiefs guard - Poles knows him Chase Young - Allen should know whether he matured a year ago and Sweat knows him. But I agree - bears also know work ethic of their own free agents. And free agency is crapshoot so make sure coaches and front office are aligned on skill sets they want but also with new staff from other places leverage all intel you can on what you’ve seen for guys you were around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 53 minutes ago, AZ54 said: 1) Over the years I've just come to learn how often one man's trash is another man's treasure turns out to be false. They were let go or allowed to leave for a reason. See Nate Davis as the latest example. 2). I also think FAs tend to dip down in performance their first year on a new team. That's not always true... see DJ Moore. Moving to a new place, living in an apartment or temp location, maybe with a family in tow, new scheme, new teammates, etc. it's natural. However, that does not make me against FA or trades for players.... it just makes me more cautious and, to the point you're making, I'd say less optimistic that the new guy is "game changing" better. In Jenkins case I have to weigh the chance he improves with better coaching, as can any FA, against his potential ceiling vs. the FAs ceiling. Either way we go I still want to build our future IOL via the next 2 drafts. I totally agree about free agents. there are so many misses. I was just thinking more about the last thing you said, that you would prefer not to roll with the guys from last year, and through the draft is better if you pick the right guys. And i guess we only have so many draft picks each year plays into the analysis too. So yeah, now im not surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I think he spends money on one FA and the rest value picks. The big spend could possibly be resigning Kyler Gordon. He's a valuable member of the defense. As far as OL Shelton played better than Dave Dalman and Ryan Kelly. I think we resign him with drafting his replacement. Jenkins is a risk but has high upside when healthy. We brought in Nate Davis after he had one good year, but we know how that turned out. If they can pay him on a per game incentive, he would still be valuable. We may be able to bring in someone with ties to our new coaches. Kevin Zeilter is old but still plays at a high level. I would prefer him to Trey Smith because of his contract and have a draftee behind him. If we end up with Braxton Jones back at LT that wouldn't be the worst situation. He has Kiran A. to compete with him. I think in the draft they draft Campbell or Banks but if not available, move back. Maybe Josh Simmons in the teens would be a better value with an extra 2 or 3. There are several OTs that could be moved to OC. Zabel, Membow, Mbow come to mind. If we can 2 combo players that can play anywhere, if would help us get the best five talents on the OL I also think Bill Murray could be a valuable backup if resign.He played well before he was injured. I would like to get Chase Young, not a stud but an upgrade for our team. He will only command 10-12 mil which won't kill our cap. Allen will have that info. There's a couple of players on the DL in Philly that could come on value deas. Tim Patrick seems like a no brainer as our 3rd WR. Maybe the new coaches can salvage Tyler Scott, he has a valuable tool, speed. People talk about a new RB. I don't think that will be a high priority. Everyone agrees the OL sucked but then complained the RBs weren't very good. The bad OL affected them to. I think they be the perfect combo for a Ben Johnson offense. They will add a third down back that could also return kicks so that person won't be in our first 4 picks. We overlook the fact we now may be a place some FAs want to be here which may play for less money. I predict. Kevin Zeilter /RG Tim Patrick/WR Chase Young /Edge Milton Williams/DT Resign Shelton, Jenkins, Pryor and Jacob Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I haven't researched other positions, so I'll stick to OL. I'm for fixing depth at all cost. My preference would be to draft three IOL before the fifth round. I'm also remembering we picked up Ricky Stromberg, who was a third round pick 2 years ago. He was released for injury at the end of Washingtons camp. We also have that Canadian kid OG that played well in camp, before injury. I'm thinking these two will battle for depth. On the free agent side, of re-sign Shelton and Jenkins. The young guns will pushing them hard. I'd rather have pedigree rookies as backups, because they'll push harder to get the old guys out. That's were quality depth emerges. I've seen enough of Borom, Pryor and Martin to say buh-bye. Lastly, I'm drawn to something Tom Thayer said about the weight room. He's literally a Bears employee. He can be at practice and see the work habits of these players. His mere hinting of any type of conditioning tells volumes. Hopefully the new OL coach will identify this and kick ass. (It is in his nature to do so). Big changes are coming gents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 To me I wonder how much our current players that apparently need to be replaced with FA's really suck and how much of it was they weren't schemed properly or coached up. Odd the teams like the Lions could lose guy after guy and still be productive. It'll be difficult for the new staff to know these things because film only tells part of the story. Poles will know, somewhat, but I'll be watching to see what the do given this side of the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 47 minutes ago, CrackerDog said: To me I wonder how much our current players that apparently need to be replaced with FA's really suck and how much of it was they weren't schemed properly or coached up. Odd the teams like the Lions could lose guy after guy and still be productive. It'll be difficult for the new staff to know these things because film only tells part of the story. Poles will know, somewhat, but I'll be watching to see what the do given this side of the topic. Good thing about the film is that they tag it with the play call and notes on how it was supposed to be executed. We saw, many times, where one of our interior guys would slide the wrong way or too far to correct. That can be corrected. When you saw Kramer getting dog walked or planted on his ass, that can possibly be corrected. That's too light in the ass and they need better conditioning. I think Flus wanted his OL light and mobile. Where the Lions have success, is from the fact that they spent draft capitol on the OL. That's where you get the bigger guys that can move like Jenkins and Wright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, Mongo3451 said: I haven't researched other positions, so I'll stick to OL. I'm for fixing depth at all cost. My preference would be to draft three IOL before the fifth round. I'm also remembering we picked up Ricky Stromberg, who was a third round pick 2 years ago. He was released for injury at the end of Washingtons camp. We also have that Canadian kid OG that played well in camp, before injury. I'm thinking these two will battle for depth. On the free agent side, of re-sign Shelton and Jenkins. The young guns will pushing them hard. I'd rather have pedigree rookies as backups, because they'll push harder to get the old guys out. That's were quality depth emerges. I've seen enough of Borom, Pryor and Martin to say buh-bye. Lastly, I'm drawn to something Tom Thayer said about the weight room. He's literally a Bears employee. He can be at practice and see the work habits of these players. His mere hinting of any type of conditioning tells volumes. Hopefully the new OL coach will identify this and kick ass. (It is in his nature to do so). Big changes are coming gents... Boron? Pryor and Martin will be minimum salary buy back. There will be an evaluation of players still here , there could be some keepers we don't think were any good. I think we draft 3 OL also but probably only one will be written in as a starter while the other are developed and waiting there turn. I hope a surprise pick like a Mbow could surprise and be a day one starter as a T conversation but that's probably wishful thinking. It would be nice is Stromberg stayed healthy and became a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Mongo3451 said: That's too light in the ass and they need better conditioning. I think Flus wanted his OL light and mobile. Where the Lions have success, is from the fact that they spent draft capitol on the OL. That's where you get the bigger guys that can move like Jenkins and Wright. The Bears have been constituted as an outside zone blocking line, and we had lighter more agile athletes. Ben Johnson ran all kinds of schemes in Detroit, and outside zone was only one of them. I think he likes bigger bodies. And I agree about the weight room and the strength and conditioning coach. We have been like a resort of a football team. So let me ask a question that will not be popular at this moment. Poles was an OL, but we didnt make them lift, and we didn't demand the "HITS" principles from anyone. If Poles had been a WR, I might understand, but since he played a position where discipline and effort are so central - how did he let the culture get to where it was?! it's not a good sign. Can we win with this staff if Poles serves them and their vision well? Sure. But I dont see Poles providing any leadership back in the other direction to the coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 I think Poles thought he could throw a line together in his image. One first round pick and a fifth round development player. A few season vets and freak athletes that develop. Obviously it didn't work out. Now he will put high level assets together. Poles is here for the future, questioning him is valid but he ain't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Stinger226 said: Poles is here for the future, questioning him is valid but he ain't going anywhere. yes i agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: Can we win with this staff if Poles serves them and their vision well? Sure. But I dont see Poles providing any leadership back in the other direction to the coaches. Like Stinger, I believe Poles and even Cunningham drank their own Kool-Aid in regards to how the OL was constructed. As far as being coached, they are agree on that upon hire. After that, it's on HC on down. Coaches can demand work in the weight room, but can not enforce it. The right coach will set a tone that inspires. It's obvious nobody inspired our OL. Thayer, Olin and Jurko all have spoken about it. It's also crazy to see guys like Ifedi, Patrick, Mustipher, Whitehair and others continue to play in the league after they were failures here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: The Bears have been constituted as an outside zone blocking line, and we had lighter more agile athletes. Ben Johnson ran all kinds of schemes in Detroit, and outside zone was only one of them. I think he likes bigger bodies. And I agree about the weight room and the strength and conditioning coach. We have been like a resort of a football team. So let me ask a question that will not be popular at this moment. Poles was an OL, but we didnt make them lift, and we didn't demand the "HITS" principles from anyone. If Poles had been a WR, I might understand, but since he played a position where discipline and effort are so central - how did he let the culture get to where it was?! it's not a good sign. Can we win with this staff if Poles serves them and their vision well? Sure. But I dont see Poles providing any leadership back in the other direction to the coaches. I wonder how much Nate Davis affected this. The guy was a cancer and held the team hostage and the team noticed. I heard Jaylen Johnson mention how disappointed he was in the work of some teammates. They would praise him and ask what he does to play so well and he told them it takes the hard-core work ethic everyday making sure your body is at its best, yet he sees them leaving the gym and not getting that extra work in. I didn't think he was speaking of the oline, but more so in Tyrique, but that my my interpretation of it. If the players do not have to do the extra work, does it fall on the GM, the coaches, or the players? By rule, the coaches only gets so much time with the team. You can encourage and provide top of the line facilities to train, but you cannot make the player stay longer. I imagine a having a new HC and system, the players will be rejuvenated to do extra. If they win and have success, it is easier to continue with the program. Start losing and that extra effort starts to diminish and they are back to square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 On 2/6/2025 at 11:22 AM, AZ54 said: I’m ok with Coleman Shelton for another year and drafting his replacement. The other FA centers are not significantly better, if at all, so put our money in a place where we will get much more improvement for our $$$. I’m also not opposed to bringing back Jenkins on a short term deal if it’s reasonable. While drafting his replacement too. I believe better coaching can help him avoid his occasional missteps. I get the injury concern but that’s what keeps him away from the big money. You can swap in any second tier FA LG too, just stick to the budget and draft the future. Isn’t the USC Center that played some with Caleb Williams available in this draft? Why not burn a 4th-5th to get him and make Caleb happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, jason said: Isn’t the USC Center that played some with Caleb Williams available in this draft? Why not burn a 4th-5th to get him and make Caleb happy? He's been climbing the boards. He looks like a prospect with potential, I'd be good with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: He's been climbing the boards. He looks like a prospect with potential, I'd be good with it. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 PpIf we brought in Tim Patrick, Chase Young, Kevin Zeilter and Mike Greski. Resigned Shelton, Pryor, Cris Williams, would that be enough before the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 https://www.profootballrumors.com/2025/02/chiefs-expecting-rg-trey-smith-to-depart-in-free-agency Chiefs staring into the Oline abyss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 It was interesting - all of a sudden been hearing talk of Smith plus Falcons center and than guard in round 2….but on top of that Bears trading for Parsons from Dallas. Im my same self - I just don’t like trading first rounders and than signing guys to big money deals as part of same transaction….but If it was a 1st and future 2nd for 25 year old Parsons and they could do the other items I might just be willing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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