An Ideal (but probably unrealistic) offseason

[McGowan]

If I was JA, this is how I would fix the team:

Free agency:

1. Sign either Travelle Wharton or Jordan Gross, whomever Carolina lets go.-this is priority #1. You have to go all out for these guys. Either of them can play LT, so you can move Tait to RT. If that fails, go after Max Starks if Pittsburgh lets him go. If we don't sign a LT, then Otah or Clady has to be the #1 pick.

2. Re-sign Berrian if he comes at a decent price or sign Bryant Johnson. After Berrian we have no talent at WR. If Berrian leaves, what good will upgrading at QB do if nobody can catch the ball? A QB has to have weapons to be successful.

3. Sign G Ryan Lilja if he does not re-sign with Indy. Again try to fix the OL through FA. These guys are under age 27, so why not dump money into proven talent rather than a maybe in the draft?

4. Sign either Eugene Wilson or Gibril Wilson if NE/Ny let them go. Chances are they will because they are on a SB team and SB teams always lose guys the next year.

5. Scour around for underrated DTs for depth.

6. Draft:

Round 1: If (1) fails, take the best available OT. I will assume that (1) happens, so option A is WR Malcom Kelly, OU. if he gets past Buffalo. We need a big target for our QBs who can go get the ball. Option B is to trade down and take Limas Sweed. Taking a RB or QB in the first is asinine.

Round 2: Option A-if Woodson or Brohm are available here, which I hear is a possiblity, whomever is available is the choice. Option B-Felix Jones RB Arkansas. If he is available and Woodson/Brohm aren't, you take him.

Round 3: pick 1-If Woodson/Brohm is taken, then you take a RB: either Jamaal Charles from UT or Steve Slaton from WVU. If Jones is taken in Round 2, then you take Henne or Flacco as your QB.

pick 2-Best available DT or OLB. Get someone to step in in case we have injuries at DT or if Jamar Williams sucks.

Round 4: WR again. look for a decent height(5-10 to 6-1) speed guy.

Cuts:

M.Muhammad

A.Archuleta

F.Miller

R. Brown

D. Walker

R. Manning(I'm comfortable with McBride at Nickel Back)

[BearSox]

please don't sign any Indy OLinemen. They come from a great system and whenever they leave they usually suck.

[LT2_3]

If I was JA, this is how I would fix the team:

Free agency:

1. Sign either Travelle Wharton or Jordan Gross, whomever Carolina lets go.-this is priority #1. You have to go all out for these guys. Either of them can play LT, so you can move Tait to RT. If that fails, go after Max Starks if Pittsburgh lets him go. If we don't sign a LT, then Otah or Clady has to be the #1 pick.

2. Re-sign Berrian if he comes at a decent price or sign Bryant Johnson. After Berrian we have no talent at WR. If Berrian leaves, what good will upgrading at QB do if nobody can catch the ball? A QB has to have weapons to be successful.

3. Sign G Ryan Lilja if he does not re-sign with Indy. Again try to fix the OL through FA. These guys are under age 27, so why not dump money into proven talent rather than a maybe in the draft?

4. Sign either Eugene Wilson or Gibril Wilson if NE/Ny let them go. Chances are they will because they are on a SB team and SB teams always lose guys the next year.

5. Scour around for underrated DTs for depth.

6. Draft:

Round 1: If (1) fails, take the best available OT. I will assume that (1) happens, so option A is WR Malcom Kelly, OU. if he gets past Buffalo. We need a big target for our QBs who can go get the ball. Option B is to trade down and take Limas Sweed. Taking a RB or QB in the first is asinine.

Round 2: Option A-if Woodson or Brohm are available here, which I hear is a possiblity, whomever is available is the choice. Option B-Felix Jones RB Arkansas. If he is available and Woodson/Brohm aren't, you take him.

Round 3: pick 1-If Woodson/Brohm is taken, then you take a RB: either Jamaal Charles from UT or Steve Slaton from WVU. If Jones is taken in Round 2, then you take Henne or Flacco as your QB.

pick 2-Best available DT or OLB. Get someone to step in in case we have injuries at DT or if Jamar Williams sucks.

Round 4: WR again. look for a decent height(5-10 to 6-1) speed guy.

Cuts:

M.Muhammad

A.Archuleta

F.Miller

R. Brown

D. Walker

R. Manning(I'm comfortable with McBride at Nickel Back)

 

Not gonna happen. No chance at all. Even with the cap space added by releasing those guys, chances are that we will only be able to sign 3 major FAs. You are proposing 4. I would also point out that R Brown is a UFA anyway so releasing him doesn't need to be done.

 

As for the other stuff, neither Berrian nor Bryant Johnson will be cheap so I think you can write off both unless we franchise Berrian. If you're looking for cheap DTs, we probably already have 2 really decent prospects in Toeina and Kennedy to enter camp with. I also think taking RB or QB in the first 3 rounds is assinine much less the first round. I would also add that since this WR group is pretty deep, taking one of them in the first is assinine too.

[shadevtx]

I agree with LT2_3. Signing UFAs just b/c they come from good teams isn't the way to build a team.

 

The QBs in this draft have already been overvalued on this board. Matt Ryan and Josh Johnson are the only players worth drafting, and I'm sure all the other teams know that, too. Joe Flacco will never be a starter in the NFL. Woodson and Brohm are system products with weak arms. Henne has a strong arm, but he's been carried by a great line, great WR corps, and a great RB all 4 years at U of M. He'll get none of that here...

 

and we need WRs that can get open. Bryant Johnson can't get open. He only caught passes when Boldin and Fitzgerald were on the field. I know we have a lot of needs, but your ideal offseason is overvaluing a lot of mediocre players...

[kyyle23]

please don't sign any Indy OLinemen. They come from a great system and whenever they leave they usually suck.

 

Who did that?

[nfoligno]

I also think taking RB or QB in the first 3 rounds is assinine much less the first round. I would also add that since this WR group is pretty deep, taking one of them in the first is assinine too.

 

Question, when you talk against taking a RB or QB in the first 3 rounds, do you mean specific to us this year, or just anyone, anytime?

 

I am against RB in the 1st, but have no problem if one falls that we love after that. I might be Benson's biggest supporter on this board, but since joining the bears, he has not produced, had the right attitude or proven capable of avoiding injuries. Basically, he has been the anti-Benson from Texas. I do not want to draft a RB in the 1st, but after that, I think would be a fine option.

 

QB - To be frank, I just do not know enough about the QBs. Woodson is the one I see us taking in most mocks, at least the ones that have us drafting QB, and I have read from too many that feel he will be a bust. But after the 1st, why not draft a QB. Are you under the impression we have a franchise QB on the roster?

 

WR - Gotta disagree about how good the WR class is this year. It has been improved, due to the underclassman declaring, but a key reason they opted into the draft is because of how weak this years class was. Their addition makes the class acceptable or passing, but not much more. There is no blue chip WR (top 10) and frankly, only a handful of 1st round grade WRs. The best WR this year might have graded no better than 5th or 6th best last year.

 

Final point. I am pretty sure you would agree the FA WR class is flat out weak. The best FA (not named Moss) is actually on our roster, and we are only luke warm to re-signing him. W/ the weak FA class, it likely will only over-value the draft class.

[nfoligno]

"Bryant Johnson can't get open. He only caught passes when Boldin and Fitzgerald were on the field. I know we have a lot of needs, but your ideal offseason is overvaluing a lot of mediocre players..."

 

I do not agree w/ that statment at all. Do you watch AZ games. I am not going to say I watch them all, but I tried to watch them when I could.

 

Johnson is the player that has been an after thought. He was taken the same year, and ahead of, Boldin, yet it was Boldin who broke out and not Johnson. Then they took Fitz, and Boldin was never given much of a look again.

 

Johnson took longer to develop, though on the other hand, most WR take a couple years. He happened to have the bad luck of joining the team the same year another rookie WR was ready to put up a 100+ catch season. Boldin was far more an exception to the rule. Anyway, Johnson has continued to develop. At numerous points, Boldin or Fitz went down w/ injuries, and Johnson stepped in and stepped up.

 

For the record, I am not trying to make out like he is going to be a stud #1 WR. I think he could be a damn good #2, which frankly is what i think of Berrian. I think someone will look to sign Berrian as a #1, and I just do not think he is. I think Johnson should come at a FAR cheaper price, and yet would offer very similar talent.

 

We still need a #1 WR, but I do not see one in this draft, or FA, much less on our own team.

[LT2_3]

Question, when you talk against taking a RB or QB in the first 3 rounds, do you mean specific to us this year, or just anyone, anytime?

 

I mean specific to us this year. It's based on the guys on our roster and contract lengths. I expect us to re-sign Grossman and like the luxury of having Griese around. We can draft a QB next year depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton when Orton's a UFA anyway.

 

I am against RB in the 1st, but have no problem if one falls that we love after that. I might be Benson's biggest supporter on this board, but since joining the bears, he has not produced, had the right attitude or proven capable of avoiding injuries. Basically, he has been the anti-Benson from Texas. I do not want to draft a RB in the 1st, but after that, I think would be a fine option.

 

If we're going to be stuck with 4 RB on the roster this season, I'd rather the guy we add be a 2nd tier FA that would be easier to both get on the field at full speed and cut ties with if he doesn't work out. If we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and Benson plays to his potential and the rookie takes awhile to get up to speed, then we're stuck with another high draft choice that isn't producing much.

 

QB - To be frank, I just do not know enough about the QBs. Woodson is the one I see us taking in most mocks, at least the ones that have us drafting QB, and I have read from too many that feel he will be a bust. But after the 1st, why not draft a QB. Are you under the impression we have a franchise QB on the roster?

 

Looking at mocks now is pointless. All the rankings will change after the combine. Heck, look at how they've changed after a week at the Senior Bowl when most of the top guys didn't even play. I'm not convinced we have a franchise QB on the roster, but one more year of evaluation of Orton and Grossman will tell us a heck of alot more if we do. The key to this is that Grossman will sign a contract that will make releasing him pretty painless, and Orton is a FA after next season. Any drafted QB will ride the pine this year anyway.

 

WR - Gotta disagree about how good the WR class is this year. It has been improved, due to the underclassman declaring, but a key reason they opted into the draft is because of how weak this years class was. Their addition makes the class acceptable or passing, but not much more. There is no blue chip WR (top 10) and frankly, only a handful of 1st round grade WRs. The best WR this year might have graded no better than 5th or 6th best last year.

 

Let me clarify: I think this WR draft class is weak at the top, but solid in the middle. What I've read is that guys will go in the 3rd this year that would've gone in the 2nd other years.

 

Final point. I am pretty sure you would agree the FA WR class is flat out weak. The best FA (not named Moss) is actually on our roster, and we are only luke warm to re-signing him. W/ the weak FA class, it likely will only over-value the draft class.

 

I agree that the FA WR class is thin. I think Berrian will get franchised.

 

Don't get me wrong, if a guy with incredible talent at any position falls to us inexplicably with our picks in round 2 or 3, I would want us to take them. However, that doesn't happen often unless there is something wrong with them that caused them to fall in the first place.

 

Now something I will be watching this year is Angelo in round 3. He's always done well in round four and I've attributed that to Angelo and his team having a knack for reevaluating their board for the guys remaining after the first day. The first day only has 2 rounds this year so I'm looking forward to his 2 3rd round picks to see if the trend continues.

[Connorbear]

I mean specific to us this year. It's based on the guys on our roster and contract lengths. I expect us to re-sign Grossman and like the luxury of having Griese around. We can draft a QB next year depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton when Orton's a UFA anyway.

I think the future of Grossman and Griese are tied to each other. If Grossman is signed, Griese is traded. If Grossman goes, Griese will battle with Orton for the starting job. The Bears will draft a QB (just not in round 1). Orton will battle for the starting spot and will be, at worst, the #2 this yr.

 

If we're going to be stuck with 4 RB on the roster this season, I'd rather the guy we add be a 2nd tier FA that would be easier to both get on the field at full speed and cut ties with if he doesn't work out. If we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and Benson plays to his potential and the rookie takes awhile to get up to speed, then we're stuck with another high draft choice that isn't producing much.

I agree. Go get someone like Chris Brown to battle against Benson for the starting job.

 

Peace

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I think the future of Grossman and Griese are tied to each other. If Grossman is signed, Griese is traded. If Grossman goes, Griese will battle with Orton for the starting job. The Bears will draft a QB (just not in round 1). Orton will battle for the starting spot and will be, at worst, the #2 this yr.

I agree. Go get someone like Chris Brown to battle against Benson for the starting job.

 

Peace

We don't need a constantly injured RB in Chris Brown.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

If I was JA, this is how I would fix the team:

Free agency:

1. Sign either Travelle Wharton or Jordan Gross, whomever Carolina lets go.-this is priority #1. You have to go all out for these guys. Either of them can play LT, so you can move Tait to RT. If that fails, go after Max Starks if Pittsburgh lets him go. If we don't sign a LT, then Otah or Clady has to be the #1 pick.

2. Re-sign Berrian if he comes at a decent price or sign Bryant Johnson. After Berrian we have no talent at WR. If Berrian leaves, what good will upgrading at QB do if nobody can catch the ball? A QB has to have weapons to be successful.

3. Sign G Ryan Lilja if he does not re-sign with Indy. Again try to fix the OL through FA. These guys are under age 27, so why not dump money into proven talent rather than a maybe in the draft?

4. Sign either Eugene Wilson or Gibril Wilson if NE/Ny let them go. Chances are they will because they are on a SB team and SB teams always lose guys the next year.

5. Scour around for underrated DTs for depth.

6. Draft:

Round 1: If (1) fails, take the best available OT. I will assume that (1) happens, so option A is WR Malcom Kelly, OU. if he gets past Buffalo. We need a big target for our QBs who can go get the ball. Option B is to trade down and take Limas Sweed. Taking a RB or QB in the first is asinine.

Round 2: Option A-if Woodson or Brohm are available here, which I hear is a possiblity, whomever is available is the choice. Option B-Felix Jones RB Arkansas. If he is available and Woodson/Brohm aren't, you take him.

Round 3: pick 1-If Woodson/Brohm is taken, then you take a RB: either Jamaal Charles from UT or Steve Slaton from WVU. If Jones is taken in Round 2, then you take Henne or Flacco as your QB.

pick 2-Best available DT or OLB. Get someone to step in in case we have injuries at DT or if Jamar Williams sucks.

Round 4: WR again. look for a decent height(5-10 to 6-1) speed guy.

Cuts:

M.Muhammad

A.Archuleta

F.Miller

R. Brown

D. Walker

R. Manning(I'm comfortable with McBride at Nickel Back)

We would never cut Moose, unfortunately.

[ostrogoth]

I also think taking RB or QB in the first 3 rounds is assinine much less the first round. I would also add that since this WR group is pretty deep, taking one of them in the first is assinine too.

Question, when you talk against taking a RB or QB in the first 3 rounds, do you mean specific to us this year, or just anyone, anytime?

 

I am against RB in the 1st, but have no problem if one falls that we love after that. I might be Benson's biggest supporter on this board, but since joining the bears, he has not produced, had the right attitude or proven capable of avoiding injuries. Basically, he has been the anti-Benson from Texas. I do not want to draft a RB in the 1st, but after that, I think would be a fine option.

 

QB - To be frank, I just do not know enough about the QBs. Woodson is the one I see us taking in most mocks, at least the ones that have us drafting QB, and I have read from too many that feel he will be a bust. But after the 1st, why not draft a QB. Are you under the impression we have a franchise QB on the roster?

 

WR - Gotta disagree about how good the WR class is this year. It has been improved, due to the underclassman declaring, but a key reason they opted into the draft is because of how weak this years class was. Their addition makes the class acceptable or passing, but not much more. There is no blue chip WR (top 10) and frankly, only a handful of 1st round grade WRs. The best WR this year might have graded no better than 5th or 6th best last year.

 

Final point. I am pretty sure you would agree the FA WR class is flat out weak. The best FA (not named Moss) is actually on our roster, and we are only luke warm to re-signing him. W/ the weak FA class, it likely will only over-value the draft class.

The Raiders' coaching staff "definitely has a strong interest" in free agent to be Bernard Berrian, according to the Chicago Tribune.

The Trib adds that Oakland anticipates the Bears placing the franchise tag on Berrian. The Bears' beat writers to this point have said that Berrian is unlikely to be franchised. It'd still be logical for the team to keep its most explosive player not named Devin Hester with the one-year guarantee.

[Connorbear]

We don't need a constantly injured RB in Chris Brown.

Well, we will not be going after a top tier RB. Do you have another lower tiered RB you would recommend?

 

Peace

[McGowan]

I'll concede the 4 free agents part, we probably won't sign them all anyway, but if we could get Wharton/Gross/Starks and 2 of the other guys then that would be great. On the record, I'm assuming that Berrian is gone, so if we can't sign Bryant Johnson we can concede having any sort of a passing game next year. No WR on our roster is starting caliber besides BB. This is the reason why I think that we'll sign a LT in FA and draft a WR in the first. Waiting until next year to draft a QB is also an option, I don't know any decent QBs that will be in the draft next year besides Tebow, and as a UF fan, I question him having an NFL arm. We do need help at Safety, though Manning did improve as the season progressed. He was raw because he went to a 1-AA school.

[shadevtx]

I do not agree w/ that statment at all. Do you watch AZ games. I am not going to say I watch them all, but I tried to watch them when I could.

 

I watched an awful (pun intended) lot of AZ games b/c living in Mich, I have to go to the bar with Sunday ticket to watch da Bears, and I also had Boldin and Fitz on my fantasy teams. When both those guys were out, Johnson had an opportunity, and did nothing. I don't watch to be the Negative Nelly here, but I know what I saw. This team needs a guy who is willing to step up. Johnson (and Berrian) are not those kind of guys...

 

At numerous points, Boldin or Fitz went down w/ injuries, and Johnson stepped in and stepped up.

 

What do you call "stepping up?" His one catch against SEA or the 2 catches against NO (when AZ was still in the wild card race)?

 

My point is: someone is going to have to pay him too much money. I don't want that someone to be us. I say, be smart, spend and draft wisely, and plan for a SB run in 2010...

[nfoligno]

I think you have a few too many assumptions in your post.

 

"I mean specific to us this year. It's based on the guys on our roster and contract lengths. I expect us to re-sign Grossman and like the luxury of having Griese around. We can draft a QB next year depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton when Orton's a UFA anyway."

 

One, I am far from confident we re-sign Rex. Two, if we do, I think Griese is gone. Others, both on this board, and in the papers, have said as much as well.

 

Two, you say "depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton". Sorry, but how long to we have to see a player?

 

"If we're going to be stuck with 4 RB on the roster this season, I'd rather the guy we add be a 2nd tier FA that would be easier to both get on the field at full speed and cut ties with if he doesn't work out. If we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and Benson plays to his potential and the rookie takes awhile to get up to speed, then we're stuck with another high draft choice that isn't producing much."

 

I guess I fail to understand your point. If Benson plays to his potential, what would a rookie taking time to develop matter? You wish to avoid a RB day one for fear he may not be good enough. How is this really different from any other position? There is always risk when you draft a player, but if you let fear and "what ifs" prevent you from taking a player, I am not sure you would ever put together that great of a team.

 

"Looking at mocks now is pointless. All the rankings will change after the combine. Heck, look at how they've changed after a week at the Senior Bowl when most of the top guys didn't even play. I'm not convinced we have a franchise QB on the roster, but one more year of evaluation of Orton and Grossman will tell us a heck of alot more if we do. The key to this is that Grossman will sign a contract that will make releasing him pretty painless, and Orton is a FA after next season. Any drafted QB will ride the pine this year anyway."

 

Couple things. One, again, you are assuming we re-sign Rex. What happens if we do not. While I do not expect anyone to throw big bucks at him, I do not think it will take "that much" to pry him away from us.

 

Two. Yes, if we draft a QB this year, he will "only" ride the pine. Your point? Many, if not most, might argue that is the way it should be.

 

"Let me clarify: I think this WR draft class is weak at the top, but solid in the middle. What I've read is that guys will go in the 3rd this year that would've gone in the 2nd other years."

 

I have not read anything like that, and am not sure how it is. All I have read is how weak this WR class was, and not simply at the top end. W/ a group of underclassmen making the jump, it improved, but take a look and I think you will find that several of those underclassman are in fact those considered the top of the class. I think this is not only a weak class a the top, but through and through. Also, I would argue that logic would say WRs will be over-valued this year. They often are anyway, as they are a skill position, but w/ the weak FA class, their value will rise. Further, WRs that would normally be late 1st will got in the top half. WRs that should be 2nd round will go late 1st. This will go on and on, and I doubt you will find many good value WRs.

 

"I agree that the FA WR class is thin. I think Berrian will get franchised."

 

Finally, we agree.

 

"Don't get me wrong, if a guy with incredible talent at any position falls to us inexplicably with our picks in round 2 or 3, I would want us to take them. However, that doesn't happen often unless there is something wrong with them that caused them to fall in the first place."

 

Can not agree here. Sometimes a very good player falls for no other reason than the position he plays. Olsen fell to us last year and was not a player that seemed to have many questions. But he plays TE, and teams in our range simply didn't have TE has much of a need. How about when we got Tommie Harris.

 

"Now something I will be watching this year is Angelo in round 3. He's always done well in round four and I've attributed that to Angelo and his team having a knack for reevaluating their board for the guys remaining after the first day. The first day only has 2 rounds this year so I'm looking forward to his 2 3rd round picks to see if the trend continues. :)"

 

Now this is a great point. I agree we do well in the 4th, when we have time to sit back and re-evaluate what has happened. In some ways, Angelo is like our coaches. Not great at in-game adjustments and in need of time.

[LT2_3]

I think you have a few too many assumptions in your post.

 

As opposed to other offseason plans that have to make assumptions on the same decisions? Free agency comes before the draft. For anyone to project what they think will happen in the draft, assumptions have to happen about what happened in FA first. I think you just don't like the assumptions that I have made.

 

"I mean specific to us this year. It's based on the guys on our roster and contract lengths. I expect us to re-sign Grossman and like the luxury of having Griese around. We can draft a QB next year depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton when Orton's a UFA anyway."

 

One, I am far from confident we re-sign Rex. Two, if we do, I think Griese is gone. Others, both on this board, and in the papers, have said as much as well.

 

Two, you say "depending on what we learn from Rex and Orton". Sorry, but how long to we have to see a player?

 

Ok. You have just listed some of your own assumptions that differ from mine. I look at last year as a lost QB evaluation year because ALL of our QBs were working behind a line that would make Tom Brady or Peyton Manning look, at most, average. I also look at it that Grossman, when evaluated in terms of starts, is right where Brees was when SD felt the need to draft a QB in the first round. He's also statistically where many other very good QBs were before they really made that next step. You can disagree with the prognosis on Grossman, but these facts make me hesitant on drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds when drafting another position could help us THIS year.

 

"If we're going to be stuck with 4 RB on the roster this season, I'd rather the guy we add be a 2nd tier FA that would be easier to both get on the field at full speed and cut ties with if he doesn't work out. If we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and Benson plays to his potential and the rookie takes awhile to get up to speed, then we're stuck with another high draft choice that isn't producing much."

 

I guess I fail to understand your point. If Benson plays to his potential, what would a rookie taking time to develop matter? You wish to avoid a RB day one for fear he may not be good enough. How is this really different from any other position? There is always risk when you draft a player, but if you let fear and "what ifs" prevent you from taking a player, I am not sure you would ever put together that great of a team.

 

If we draft a RB high, chances are he'll take time learning the nuances of being a RB at the pro level and won't provide TRUE competition for Benson because he's a developmental project when compared to a veteran. I think you aren't considering the coaching staff and their tendencies in this. Sure, if we draft a guy that doesn't play much, it gives the opportunity to complain about the coaching, but IMO it's a reality and think we should call a spade a spade. A FA RB would already know how to block and make their reads at this level, and have a much better chance at helping the team THIS year.

 

"Looking at mocks now is pointless. All the rankings will change after the combine. Heck, look at how they've changed after a week at the Senior Bowl when most of the top guys didn't even play. I'm not convinced we have a franchise QB on the roster, but one more year of evaluation of Orton and Grossman will tell us a heck of alot more if we do. The key to this is that Grossman will sign a contract that will make releasing him pretty painless, and Orton is a FA after next season. Any drafted QB will ride the pine this year anyway."

 

Couple things. One, again, you are assuming we re-sign Rex. What happens if we do not. While I do not expect anyone to throw big bucks at him, I do not think it will take "that much" to pry him away from us.

 

Two. Yes, if we draft a QB this year, he will "only" ride the pine. Your point? Many, if not most, might argue that is the way it should be.

 

Okay. Rex has said he wants to return, and the team has said they would like him to be back. Why is it such a stretch for you to think it gets done? I think he'll get something done in February before other teams have a chance to pry him away from us, that s pays him well if he's the starter, but not much if he's injured or on the bench. Most fans, not realizing how performance based contracts work, will be outraged about what gets reported in the media in regards to his new contract. My main thing about not drafting a QB THIS year has to do with Orton though. If we draft a guy, Orton gets less attention from the coaching staff (due purely to numbers) and he would get fewer opportunities to be evaluated. He's only got 1 year left under contract. If he shows us nothing due to lack of opportunties, then he's gone and we have lost an opportunity.

 

"Let me clarify: I think this WR draft class is weak at the top, but solid in the middle. What I've read is that guys will go in the 3rd this year that would've gone in the 2nd other years."

 

I have not read anything like that, and am not sure how it is. All I have read is how weak this WR class was, and not simply at the top end. W/ a group of underclassmen making the jump, it improved, but take a look and I think you will find that several of those underclassman are in fact those considered the top of the class. I think this is not only a weak class a the top, but through and through. Also, I would argue that logic would say WRs will be over-valued this year. They often are anyway, as they are a skill position, but w/ the weak FA class, their value will rise. Further, WRs that would normally be late 1st will got in the top half. WRs that should be 2nd round will go late 1st. This will go on and on, and I doubt you will find many good value WRs.

 

Well, it depends on who you read and believe. We can shelve this until after the combine when the "pundints" will be more in agreement.

 

"Don't get me wrong, if a guy with incredible talent at any position falls to us inexplicably with our picks in round 2 or 3, I would want us to take them. However, that doesn't happen often unless there is something wrong with them that caused them to fall in the first place."

 

Can not agree here. Sometimes a very good player falls for no other reason than the position he plays. Olsen fell to us last year and was not a player that seemed to have many questions. But he plays TE, and teams in our range simply didn't have TE has much of a need. How about when we got Tommie Harris.

 

Well this is all relative and again depends on who you read and believe. I think it's tough to say that Tommie fell when he was the 14th pick and first DT off the board. Add to that, that there were zero teams drafting ahead of us that play the Tampa-2 scheme that would take advantage of his skills and it even makes sense. As for Olsen, he was projected as a late 1st rounder which is where we got him. I'm talking about picks in the 2nd and 3rd. Got any examples from the mid 2nd round and beyond?

 

BTW I'm not a big basher of drafts - you should know this about me by now. I think these type of discussions get difficult when some are arguing what they think SHOULD be done, and others are arguing what they think WILL be done or any combination of the two. My perspective is based on a little bit of both. I think this team is really close to contending for SB next year and the key is the Oline. I don't want to see a bunch of offensive picks that won't help us this year. Going OT, OG, S makes sense to me with the first 3 picks. Sliding a QB, RB, or WR in there doesn't help THIS year. I could see a WR in the third though.

 

The other thing I keep in mind has to do with roster spots. I think we're going to keep 9 Olinemen and 4 RBs including FB this year. That means to me that ALL the other guys on the roster have to be able to step in and perform because there is little leeway on the roster in case of an injury. There is little or NO room for developmental projects. I read about a WR that was rated highly that may fall due to a wrist injury. I could see taking him in the third if we intend to IR him. That's the type of exception I see.

 

"Now something I will be watching this year is Angelo in round 3. He's always done well in round four and I've attributed that to Angelo and his team having a knack for reevaluating their board for the guys remaining after the first day. The first day only has 2 rounds this year so I'm looking forward to his 2 3rd round picks to see if the trend continues. :)"

 

Now this is a great point. I agree we do well in the 4th, when we have time to sit back and re-evaluate what has happened. In some ways, Angelo is like our coaches. Not great at in-game adjustments and in need of time.

 

I'm glad to be of service. Another little thing I have in mind is that with FA prices skyrocketing this year, our 14th pick gives us an opportunity to get an elite OT prospect under contract for 6 years at a price that will cost less than half of what will be paid to a Wharton, Gross, or Starks - at least in guaranteed money. It's a prime year for us to draft an OT in terms of prospects and relative cost. I can't see us going any other direction in the first round.

 

As always Nfo, it's a pleasure debating with you.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Well, we will not be going after a top tier RB. Do you have another lower tiered RB you would recommend?

 

Peace

Here's an idea: we don't need a damn RB. Benson ran well in 2006 behind an actual OL, and now the one year he doesn't have one and struggles, we all are calling for his head. We can't actually accuse him of "sucking" until he actually sucks behind an above average OL. Until then, he should be our RB.

 

However, I don't think that means we don't get another RB in the offseason, which is why Jamaal Charles out of Texas in round 3-4 would be a solid pick-up.

[Pixote]

I love it when someone says one is making too many assumptions when talking about the Bears 2008 draft. ALL of our talk about the 2008 draft is based on assumptions. We have no idea what free agency will bring (+ or -) and even talk about our free agency is ALL assumption. We are here SPECULATING on what WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN based on our feelings as to what we want to see the Bears do this off season.

 

It is fun to try and figure out what will happen.

 

At QB will we keep Griese? If he goes we have an open spot for a QB, then I would assume we pick up a FA or draft a QB. If we pick up a FA QB I assume we will not draft a QB. If we keep Griese on the roster I have doubts we will draft a QB or go FA QB. I think they are committed to keeping both Rex and Kyle around. However, if Rex leaves via FA, all above changes. Then we have 1 or 2 open spots on the roster for QB. Then it more likely that we draft a prospect higher than we would have if Rex stayed. The question of what the Bears will do at QB is so much up in the air that it would be impossible to know for sure where this will go.

 

The same can go for RB. Do we pick up a FA RB? If so do we carry 4 RBs? I honestly do not see AP or Wolfe going anywhere nor Benson. If we do not go FA RB I assume we draft a prospect based on JAs statement about bringing in competition at the RB spot. Until we see what we do in FA we have no idea what will happen.

 

At WR will we be able to resign Berrian? Will we look to restructure Moose or cut him? How confident are the Bears that Hester could be an impact player at WR? As far as that goes, how confident are we in Bradley? Will we look to pick up a veteran WR? Do we draft a WR early or late knowing he will not likely make an immediate impact?

 

I think it is safe to say we all agree we need a fix on the OL but we have differing opinions on how to accomplish this. FA is a safer bet as we know reasonably for sure what we are getting whereas in a draft we do not. However, FA OLmen of quality are expensive and I do not see many solutions for OLT available in FA. I think we could go OG or ORT in FA but I feel we might have to go draft that elusive LOT.

 

Safety is another major need. I think it is safe to say very few of us expect to see Mike Brown start all 16 games this year, assuming he makes it to opening day without going on the IR. I love this guy. He is a tremendous player when on the field and when he is not our defense suffers big time. We need to address this position. Do we pick up a FA (there are several good options in FA) or go draft one? I feel we have the replacement for Arch in K Payne. Do we have enough depth at S even if we get a safety valve for Brown?

 

I feel we have the depth at LB to cover Briggs departure with Williams and Okwo. However, do we have good depth here, especially if URL has problems with his back? Briggs could have slid over to MLB with no problems. Do we have to add another LB also?

 

So all I am saying we know reasonable for sure without speculation we need to address:

 

QB

RB

WR

OL

S

LB???

 

What ALL of us is doing is SPECULATING on how this can be done by ASSUMPTIONS MADE!!

 

No harm, no foul, just fun killing the time waiting for the Bears to kick some ass in 2008.

[nfoligno]

When talking about the offseason, and in particular, the draft, as early as January, we are all making assumptions. My issue was w/ the following comment from an earlier post,

 

"I also think taking RB or QB in the first 3 rounds is assinine much less the first round"

 

As I was able to understand, at least a good amount of his reasoning to say drafting QB in the first three rounds is because he assumes we are going to sign Rex.

 

We all make assumptions, but throw out comments like "assinine" based off assumptions, then that is what I felt needed to be called out.

[nfoligno]

First things first. How the hell do you put pieces of the previous post in a box like that? When I try to hit the quote box, I end up putting the entire post in a box.

 

W/ regard to "assumptions", my reasoning for the comment was a previous post of yours where you say drafting a QB in the first three rounds would be "assinine". You seem to later reason this based on the assumption we will sign Rex. I suppose that was the reason for the comment. We are all making assumptions, but to say one idea (drafting a QB in the first three rounds is assinine, and basing that on an assumption, well, I just had an issue w/ it. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

 

I read your post in full, but to be honest, especially at the end, I think we are arguing even though we actually agree.

 

I do not want to write off the idea of drafting a QB, WR or RB in the first three rounds. I think there are plenty of times when a player slips in the draft, whether due to questions (injury, character, tweaner size, small school, etc) or simply because he didn't fit the need or scheme of teams in front of us. So if a player slips, then I think we should be looking to draft that player.

 

QB - I would have no problem taking a QB, even in the 1st, if I better liked the guys in the draft. As it is, it doesn't look like a great QB class, at least not at the top. Later though, maybe as high as the 3rd, I would consider it, but only if a QB I (being Angelo and the scouts) graded high was there. I am not sold we keep Rex. If we do, I think there is a good chance we let Griese go. I am simply not high on Rex or Orton, and question whether either are truly franchise QBs. If we felt a franchise QB was there for us, I think we should take him.

 

RB - We actually agree. I want a mid tier FA RB added. But again, w/ that said, if a RB we liked slipped, I would not mind taking him. NOT in the first, but pretty much anytime after that. I disagree w/ the idea that a rookie RB can not be productive immediately. RB is one of the positions that tends to develop quicker than most. Often rookie RBs either flat out break out, or simply become very productive. W/ that said, I think any rookie we draft would have to be one that proved capable of blocking in college. That seems to be an issue for us. The last two RBs we drafted had blocking as a question mark coming in.

 

WR - I am not high on taking a WR this year, but that is more due to the talent I think will be there than it is due to the idea itself. We simply have little by way of WRs, and while WRs tend to take longer to develop, you often find rookie WRs that can step in and be productive, so long as you do not put too much on them. Again, I do not see it as likely, as I think this is a weak class.

 

But while we are spending so much time arguing, it is over the general, as I otherwise agree. In the first, I would find it hard to see anything other than OT. W/ 4 OTs considered solid LT prospects, and of solid grade for our pick, it seems like we have that rare situation where our top needs fits a ton position strength in the draft. The only player I can see, other than OT, in the first is S Kenny Phillips. Even w/ him, I would be hard pressed to pass on a LT. But, as an example, if we had Phillips graded out as a top 10 player, while 3 LTs (Long, Clady & Otah) were already gone leaving Baker, who we grade out in the 15-20 range, I can see the argument to take Phillips. But my ideal would have us taking a LT in the 1st.

 

After that, I would be looking at S as our top need, but there would be a big list of secondary needs I would consider based on BPA, and RB/WR would be among that group.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

First things first. How the hell do you put pieces of the previous post in a box like that? When I try to hit the quote box, I end up putting the entire post in a box.

 

W/ regard to "assumptions", my reasoning for the comment was a previous post of yours where you say drafting a QB in the first three rounds would be "assinine". You seem to later reason this based on the assumption we will sign Rex. I suppose that was the reason for the comment. We are all making assumptions, but to say one idea (drafting a QB in the first three rounds is assinine, and basing that on an assumption, well, I just had an issue w/ it. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

 

I read your post in full, but to be honest, especially at the end, I think we are arguing even though we actually agree.

 

I do not want to write off the idea of drafting a QB, WR or RB in the first three rounds. I think there are plenty of times when a player slips in the draft, whether due to questions (injury, character, tweaner size, small school, etc) or simply because he didn't fit the need or scheme of teams in front of us. So if a player slips, then I think we should be looking to draft that player.

 

QB - I would have no problem taking a QB, even in the 1st, if I better liked the guys in the draft. As it is, it doesn't look like a great QB class, at least not at the top. Later though, maybe as high as the 3rd, I would consider it, but only if a QB I (being Angelo and the scouts) graded high was there. I am not sold we keep Rex. If we do, I think there is a good chance we let Griese go. I am simply not high on Rex or Orton, and question whether either are truly franchise QBs. If we felt a franchise QB was there for us, I think we should take him.

 

RB - We actually agree. I want a mid tier FA RB added. But again, w/ that said, if a RB we liked slipped, I would not mind taking him. NOT in the first, but pretty much anytime after that. I disagree w/ the idea that a rookie RB can not be productive immediately. RB is one of the positions that tends to develop quicker than most. Often rookie RBs either flat out break out, or simply become very productive. W/ that said, I think any rookie we draft would have to be one that proved capable of blocking in college. That seems to be an issue for us. The last two RBs we drafted had blocking as a question mark coming in.

 

WR - I am not high on taking a WR this year, but that is more due to the talent I think will be there than it is due to the idea itself. We simply have little by way of WRs, and while WRs tend to take longer to develop, you often find rookie WRs that can step in and be productive, so long as you do not put too much on them. Again, I do not see it as likely, as I think this is a weak class.

 

But while we are spending so much time arguing, it is over the general, as I otherwise agree. In the first, I would find it hard to see anything other than OT. W/ 4 OTs considered solid LT prospects, and of solid grade for our pick, it seems like we have that rare situation where our top needs fits a ton position strength in the draft. The only player I can see, other than OT, in the first is S Kenny Phillips. Even w/ him, I would be hard pressed to pass on a LT. But, as an example, if we had Phillips graded out as a top 10 player, while 3 LTs (Long, Clady & Otah) were already gone leaving Baker, who we grade out in the 15-20 range, I can see the argument to take Phillips. But my ideal would have us taking a LT in the 1st.

 

After that, I would be looking at S as our top need, but there would be a big list of secondary needs I would consider based on BPA, and RB/WR would be among that group.

I guess we could just suck it up this year and take Michael Crabtree, stud WR from Texas Tech, in next year's draft (if he goes pro).

[BearSox]

This WR class isn't really all that weak. It might not have any studs, but it is filled with solid players.

[LT2_3]

First things first. How the hell do you put pieces of the previous post in a box like that? When I try to hit the quote box, I end up putting the entire post in a box.

 

LOL I type in the html tags manually {quote} and {/quote} using Brackets intead of braces.

 

W/ regard to "assumptions", my reasoning for the comment was a previous post of yours where you say drafting a QB in the first three rounds would be "assinine". You seem to later reason this based on the assumption we will sign Rex. I suppose that was the reason for the comment. We are all making assumptions, but to say one idea (drafting a QB in the first three rounds is assinine, and basing that on an assumption, well, I just had an issue w/ it. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

 

I'm ok with the entire exchange so far. We've said much worse to each other in the past. Btw, I used the term assinine because the original poster used it in his post. I personally think using a word like Assinine when discussing the offseason when 1.) We don't know which potential UFAs will be re-signed before FA begins, and B.) How the combine will affect the draft board, is Assinine itself. I suppose it's my own bizarre sense of humor and irony that made me use the term. I apologize if it irked you unreasonably.

 

I read your post in full, but to be honest, especially at the end, I think we are arguing even though we actually agree.

 

Well stop it. We MUST disagree or it's no fun! Remember:

I came here for a good argument!

O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an *argument*!

M: An argument isn't just contradiction.

O: Well! it CAN be!

M: No it can't!

An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a

proposition.

O: No it isn't!

M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.

O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!

M: Yes but it isn't just saying "no it isn't".

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just

the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

 

 

I do not want to write off the idea of drafting a QB, WR or RB in the first three rounds. I think there are plenty of times when a player slips in the draft, whether due to questions (injury, character, tweaner size, small school, etc) or simply because he didn't fit the need or scheme of teams in front of us. So if a player slips, then I think we should be looking to draft that player.

 

Well then don't write it off. Obviously, it would be silly for a GM to enter a draft without being willing to do that, but without knowing which players would fall, you can't really project what would be reasonable or not without a different scenario for every player in the draft. That being said, if it's at a position where we are already strong, the falling player could make a great opportunity to trade down.

 

QB - I would have no problem taking a QB, even in the 1st, if I better liked the guys in the draft. As it is, it doesn't look like a great QB class, at least not at the top. Later though, maybe as high as the 3rd, I would consider it, but only if a QB I (being Angelo and the scouts) graded high was there. I am not sold we keep Rex. If we do, I think there is a good chance we let Griese go. I am simply not high on Rex or Orton, and question whether either are truly franchise QBs. If we felt a franchise QB was there for us, I think we should take him.

 

I dunno about letting Griese go. He's awesome for a backup. I think HIS numbers would have been much better if our oline was better and if the defense didn't keep making him play from behind.

 

RB - We actually agree. I want a mid tier FA RB added. But again, w/ that said, if a RB we liked slipped, I would not mind taking him. NOT in the first, but pretty much anytime after that. I disagree w/ the idea that a rookie RB can not be productive immediately. RB is one of the positions that tends to develop quicker than most. Often rookie RBs either flat out break out, or simply become very productive. W/ that said, I think any rookie we draft would have to be one that proved capable of blocking in college. That seems to be an issue for us. The last two RBs we drafted had blocking as a question mark coming in.

 

Ok. But please not in the 2nd. I'm hoping for us to get our LG of the future there.

 

WR - I am not high on taking a WR this year, but that is more due to the talent I think will be there than it is due to the idea itself. We simply have little by way of WRs, and while WRs tend to take longer to develop, you often find rookie WRs that can step in and be productive, so long as you do not put too much on them. Again, I do not see it as likely, as I think this is a weak class.

 

If we keep Berrian, I'm against drafting a WR before our 2nd 3rd rounder.

 

But while we are spending so much time arguing, it is over the general, as I otherwise agree. In the first, I would find it hard to see anything other than OT. W/ 4 OTs considered solid LT prospects, and of solid grade for our pick, it seems like we have that rare situation where our top needs fits a ton position strength in the draft. The only player I can see, other than OT, in the first is S Kenny Phillips. Even w/ him, I would be hard pressed to pass on a LT. But, as an example, if we had Phillips graded out as a top 10 player, while 3 LTs (Long, Clady & Otah) were already gone leaving Baker, who we grade out in the 15-20 range, I can see the argument to take Phillips. But my ideal would have us taking a LT in the 1st.

 

Me too.

 

After that, I would be looking at S as our top need, but there would be a big list of secondary needs I would consider based on BPA, and RB/WR would be among that group.

Ok. Works for me.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

This WR class isn't really all that weak. It might not have any studs, but it is filled with solid players.

I think Hardy and Doucet could be great 5-7 years into their NFL careers, so you may be able to put them under the category "STUDS" but other then those 2, all the rest look like they could be good, solid WRs for whatever teams pick them up.