Does it scare anyone that Tommie might be looking for 30M SB guarantee?

[BigDaddy]

I mean, he is a freakin DT. Where on earth will this end? Look at where is gotten to in the last 10 yrs. Bruce Smith made 2.2M 10 yrs ago. He was a premier player. Dwight Freeney got his deal last yr at 6 yrs 72M, 30 guaranteed. Even using simple math, thats 12M per yr. based on the same rate of growth, that implies that 10 yrs from now, that a premier guy like Smith or Freeney is going to make what? 72M a year unless something is done. These salaries have gotten completely out of hand. Hell, Deion Sanders was the highest paid NFL player 10 yrs ago and he was paid 4.9M a Yr and people were going gaga over that.

 

How can the small market teams survive, let alone compete? I don't know how any NFL team could exist if these salaries keep escalting at the rate they have. Anyone think we're going to have a real issue come the next negotiations with the NFLPA?

[DrunkBomber]

I mean, he is a freakin DT. Where on earth will this end? Look at where is gotten to in the last 10 yrs. Bruce Smith made 2.2M 10 yrs ago. He was a premier player. Dwight Freeney got his deal last yr at 6 yrs 72M, 30 guaranteed. Even using simple math, thats 12M per yr. based on the same rate of growth, that implies that 10 yrs from now, that a premier guy like Smith or Freeney is going to make what? 72M a year unless something is done. These salaries have gotten completely out of hand. Hell, Deion Sanders was the highest paid NFL player 10 yrs ago and he was paid 4.9M a Yr and people were going gaga over that.

 

How can the small market teams survive, let alone compete? I don't know how any NFL team could exist if these salaries keep escalting at the rate they have. Anyone think we're going to have a real issue come the next negotiations with the NFLPA?

Small market teams? This isnt MLB. All teams make more than enough money to spend all the way up to the salary cap.

[jason]

Small market teams? This isnt MLB. All teams make more than enough money to spend all the way up to the salary cap.

 

They only make "more than enough" because they are raping the fans. It's gotten completely ridiculous.

 

The players do not deserve that much money. Period.

 

The owners need to do something about it, or the fans will ultimately suffer.

 

When an upper-deck seat for a Chicago game is upwards of $100, and it's nowhere near the front of the tier, then the fans are getting screwed. We pay because we love the game, but it's complete horseshit. Each and every owner could lower ticket prices if the players weren't getting paid so much.

 

Would they? That's another discussion. All I know is that the rise in ticket prices over the last ten years is directly related to the crazy rise in players' salaries over the same period of time. It makes me hate the "$10M is an insult to me" players even more.

[madlithuanian]

It is a scary thought. The league and the players really need to keep the darn cap in place, or this sport will become baseball.

 

I have hope that calmer heads will prevail for the greater good of the league. If not, Goodell and Upshaw will go down as the men that killed pro football.

 

I mean, he is a freakin DT. Where on earth will this end? Look at where is gotten to in the last 10 yrs. Bruce Smith made 2.2M 10 yrs ago. He was a premier player. Dwight Freeney got his deal last yr at 6 yrs 72M, 30 guaranteed. Even using simple math, thats 12M per yr. based on the same rate of growth, that implies that 10 yrs from now, that a premier guy like Smith or Freeney is going to make what? 72M a year unless something is done. These salaries have gotten completely out of hand. Hell, Deion Sanders was the highest paid NFL player 10 yrs ago and he was paid 4.9M a Yr and people were going gaga over that.

 

How can the small market teams survive, let alone compete? I don't know how any NFL team could exist if these salaries keep escalting at the rate they have. Anyone think we're going to have a real issue come the next negotiations with the NFLPA?

[madlithuanian]

Everyone deserves the money they earn. If we, as fans, are willing to pay that, everyone involved should be paid. Hell, I'd be extatic if I could ever get a ticket for $100. Usually I'm buying $240 to get in. What makes it less painful than other sports is you only really have to do it 8 times a year potentially. And it's truly an event.

 

But until fans lash out agasint it, it's only going to get worse...

 

They only make "more than enough" because they are raping the fans. It's gotten completely ridiculous.

 

The players do not deserve that much money. Period.

 

The owners need to do something about it, or the fans will ultimately suffer.

 

When an upper-deck seat for a Chicago game is upwards of $100, and it's nowhere near the front of the tier, then the fans are getting screwed. We pay because we love the game, but it's complete horseshit. Each and every owner could lower ticket prices if the players weren't getting paid so much.

 

Would they? That's another discussion. All I know is that the rise in ticket prices over the last ten years is directly related to the crazy rise in players' salaries over the same period of time. It makes me hate the "$10M is an insult to me" players even more.

[DrunkBomber]

They only make "more than enough" because they are raping the fans. It's gotten completely ridiculous.

 

The players do not deserve that much money. Period.

 

The owners need to do something about it, or the fans will ultimately suffer.

 

When an upper-deck seat for a Chicago game is upwards of $100, and it's nowhere near the front of the tier, then the fans are getting screwed. We pay because we love the game, but it's complete horseshit. Each and every owner could lower ticket prices if the players weren't getting paid so much.

 

Would they? That's another discussion. All I know is that the rise in ticket prices over the last ten years is directly related to the crazy rise in players' salaries over the same period of time. It makes me hate the "$10M is an insult to me" players even more.

I agree that theyre overpaid completely, I was just pointing out that no small market teams are at a disadvantage financially when it comes to signing players. I had to pay close to 500 dollars for two tickets to the Bears/Cowboys game this year so I know how ridiculous it is. I think the bigger problem is the rookie contracts. Top 10 picks should be capped so youre not married to your draft pick for the life of his first contract. Unfortunately for the consumer the NFL is more popular than ever and the demand will always be there so teams are going to be able to continue to raise prices.

[nfoligno]

Disagree. I have often had this argument. It is one thing to talk about the cap, but another when talking about bonus dollars.

 

For example, I could easily (and have) show how we could afford to re-sign Berrian, Briggs, extend Harris, and even add Faneca. I can show you how that can be done, and done w/ in cap space we have.

 

BUT, then you have to consider the amount of cash a team has to cough up at one time. While not exact, potential bonus dollars for those players: Berrian ($15m), Briggs ($20m), Harris ($30m) and Faneca ($15m). That is $80m that we would have to front those four players. There are a handful of owners in the league that MIGHT do that. Snyder and Jones come to mind. Most wouldn't do it because it isn't cap smart. But many flat out could not do it. It is one thing to spend all your cap allotment. Every team has the ability to do that w/ shared revenue. But the more wealthy owners can really go above and beyond.

 

For example,

 

Team A offers a player a 5 year deal worth $50m, including a $10m SB.

 

Team B offers a player a 5 year deal worth $50m, including a $20m SB.

 

Team B is going to sign that player. Teams w/ rich owners can afford to dole out the bigger bonus dollars, and secure players. You can argue the McCaskey family is plenty rich, but the team is their only source of income. Counter that w/ owners who are freaking rich, independent of their team. Simply put, they have more to spend.

 

So while the cap creates limits unseen in baseball, at the same time, a team owned by a rich owner does in fact have an advantage over a team w/o one. IMHO, it is lucky for the league that Snyder is so stupid. If he were smarter, and would allow football people to make the decisions, and simply wrote the checks, it could be scary how good Wash could be. Luckily, Snyder sees to it Washington spends tens of milions on players who were great FF players 5 years prior, but currently are in the twighlight of their careers.

[nfoligno]

That is the one area I think we will eventully see a major change. The players union is not as often big on making a stand for rookies, who are not yet even NFL players. I think we will at some point see a change in the rookie pool, as high end rookies, who have not set foot on a field, get deals greater than what veterans who are far more proven receive.

[DrunkBomber]

Just because there are a few owners that are willing to overpay for players doesnt mean that small market teams wont be able to compete. The Bears arent a small market team and you wont see them doing stuff like Snyder does. They could afford to, they just wont.

[nfoligno]

While the dollars will continue to rise, I do not think it will continue to rise at nearly the same rate. The league soared in popularity, which was a cause of the increase. As popular as it is today, unless they expand to new markets (outside America), I do not see the same level of increase.

 

Also, 10 years ago, I do not believe the league had nearly the same TV deals that are in place today. Those TV deals were also a huge reason for the soaring cap dollars.

 

Finally, in the past, stadiums didn't have the revenue they do today. I am not talking what you and I pay. It is the addition of the luxury suites that has jacked up the revenue far more. That was the huge issue our ownership had w/ the stadium before it's reconstruction. W/o those luxury suites, our ownership simply didn't have close to the revenue dollars most other teams had. Now, most teams have luxury suites, and thus revenues are more set.

 

So while the cap, and the money players get, will continue to rise, I do not think it will nearly so dramatic. Three of the top factors for the increase have leveled off, and thus so might the spending. At least relatively.

[nfoligno]

Never said we were a small market team. I would say that prior to the stadium reconstruction, we were at a disadvantage. We simply didn't have the same revenue as other teams, and thus less money to spend.

 

And I never said we could not compete. What I said is rich owners do have an advantage. Not the same as in baseball, but an advantage none-the-less. Like I pointed out, I doubt we could sign all the players we are looking at, even if we wanted. We can talk all day about how much money our ownership has, but could they really shell out $80m at any one point? I doubt it. There are some owners however that could.

[DrunkBomber]

Never said we were a small market team. I would say that prior to the stadium reconstruction, we were at a disadvantage. We simply didn't have the same revenue as other teams, and thus less money to spend.

 

And I never said we could not compete. What I said is rich owners do have an advantage. Not the same as in baseball, but an advantage none-the-less. Like I pointed out, I doubt we could sign all the players we are looking at, even if we wanted. We can talk all day about how much money our ownership has, but could they really shell out $80m at any one point? I doubt it. There are some owners however that could.

I was using the Bears as an example. Im saying theyre not a small market team but they will never spend how Snyder does. Comparing it to baseball is apples and oranges. Every team in the NFL makes enough money to spend up to the cap and not lose money. The Redskins are pretty much the only team that goes crazy with spending, Jones doesnt even really go too far. It might be an advantage to be in a bigger market but its not hard to spend for teams like Green Bay, Cleveland or Minnesota. Just because Snyder throws money at everyone doesnt mean its helping. If what he did worked more teams would do it. Teams just need to make smart signings, build through the draft, allocate their money correctly to have success. Small market or large market doesnt really matter in the NFL.

[BigDaddy]

I look at the rookie contracts as of late. Jemarcus Russell, 60M and 30 guaranteed? That's just obscene. These damn rookies haven't proven anything and look at what they make. This is what has to stop. If a rookie can command that kind of jack, what can a guy whose proven himself ask for? There needs to be a 2 year cap on rookie salaries with a cap on signing bonuses as well. It can be done based on where someone is picked in the draft. The amounts of money being paid to the Cedric Bensons of the NFL is sad. It's gotta stop somewhere and I don't care what anyone says. The league cannot continue to fund these compensation plans. It's impossible. Even the Big market teams will suffer.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed. It's just reeks of common sense. However, it wouldn't surprise me if nothing happens.

 

That is the one area I think we will eventully see a major change. The players union is not as often big on making a stand for rookies, who are not yet even NFL players. I think we will at some point see a change in the rookie pool, as high end rookies, who have not set foot on a field, get deals greater than what veterans who are far more proven receive.

[Bears4Ever_34]

No, if thats the case, you let him walk. He's injury prone anyways.

[madlithuanian]

Keep in mind, you're basing your comments based on the current system. If the NFL kills the cap, you could very well see Jones, Snyder and others break banks to get the top players in the NFL. I would not put it past them in the least.

 

Much of the issue surrounds the fact that teams like the Cowboys and Redskins generate more revenue than other teams, and they want to keep that money. If they get to keep it, odds are they will spend it. And make more...etc.

 

I was using the Bears as an example. Im saying theyre not a small market team but they will never spend how Snyder does. Comparing it to baseball is apples and oranges. Every team in the NFL makes enough money to spend up to the cap and not lose money. The Redskins are pretty much the only team that goes crazy with spending, Jones doesnt even really go too far. It might be an advantage to be in a bigger market but its not hard to spend for teams like Green Bay, Cleveland or Minnesota. Just because Snyder throws money at everyone doesnt mean its helping. If what he did worked more teams would do it. Teams just need to make smart signings, build through the draft, allocate their money correctly to have success. Small market or large market doesnt really matter in the NFL.

[nfoligno]

To put it in perspective.

 

Payton Manning, arguably the best QB in the NFL, got $34.5m guaranteed on record breaking deal.

 

Russell, who had never thrown an NFL pass, got $29m guaranteed.

 

So there is a $5.5m difference between the best QB in the league, and a kid who has never played an NFL down.

 

Two other notables. Calvin Johnson has the 2nd highest number. He got $27.2m guaranteed. I believe that makes him the highest paid WR in the NFL. So a kid who has never caught a pass gets more guaranteed coin than Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, etc.

 

Mario Williams got $26.5m guaranteed. If it were not for Freeney, Mario Williams would be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, in terms of guaranteed coin. Still, 2nd highest is pretty sick.

 

It is because of these sort of examples I believe something will be done before too much longer. Look no further than how teams are trying to get rid of the top pick in the draft, because the guaranteed money is simply not worth the risk. So no question teams would like to see a rookie cap. Further, I think the NFL players association would not mind, as the NFLPA represenst NFL players, not kids who are not yet in the league. And those NFL players are getting totally hosed by rookie deals. Veterans who have proven themselves still end up w/ contracts lower than rookies.

 

The only group (other and rookies) who will strongly fight a change I think would be the agents, who enjoy the 2-3% they get from these ridiculous rookie contracts.

[BigDaddy]

Hopefully, they will do something about the rookie salaries. Let them EARN the money.

[BearSox]

To put it in perspective.

 

Payton Manning, arguably the best QB in the NFL, got $34.5m guaranteed on record breaking deal.

 

Russell, who had never thrown an NFL pass, got $29m guaranteed.

 

So there is a $5.5m difference between the best QB in the league, and a kid who has never played an NFL down.

 

Two other notables. Calvin Johnson has the 2nd highest number. He got $27.2m guaranteed. I believe that makes him the highest paid WR in the NFL. So a kid who has never caught a pass gets more guaranteed coin than Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, etc.

 

Mario Williams got $26.5m guaranteed. If it were not for Freeney, Mario Williams would be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, in terms of guaranteed coin. Still, 2nd highest is pretty sick.

 

It is because of these sort of examples I believe something will be done before too much longer. Look no further than how teams are trying to get rid of the top pick in the draft, because the guaranteed money is simply not worth the risk. So no question teams would like to see a rookie cap. Further, I think the NFL players association would not mind, as the NFLPA represenst NFL players, not kids who are not yet in the league. And those NFL players are getting totally hosed by rookie deals. Veterans who have proven themselves still end up w/ contracts lower than rookies.

 

The only group (other and rookies) who will strongly fight a change I think would be the agents, who enjoy the 2-3% they get from these ridiculous rookie contracts.

 

In all fairness, Calvin Johnson and Mario Williams will both be the top players at their position soon enough.

 

But yeah, top 5-10 picks and their bonuses are getting way out of hand.

[DaBearSox]

What professional athlete isn't overpaid?

 

They bitch and complain that they deserve more money because their jobs are so hard yet there are people working in factories 7 days a week for 1/1000 of an NFL/MLB/NBA etc paycheck.

 

As long as those factory workers keep laying down 2-3 days pay for a damn ticket it's never going to end....

[nfoligno]

Exactly. I hate the greed, but at the same time, we as fans are the reason that greed continues.

 

Players are no different than actors. It is sick to see Actors demand $20m a film, which then gets passed on to the movie theaters, and then to us. But so long as we pay $10 a ticket, not to mention $5 for popcorn and $5 for soda, we enable the whole scene. No different in sports. So long as we pay the ticket prices, players will want a bigger share of that profit.

[adam]

Just tax the hell out of them. Make some type of entertainment luxury tax once they hit a certain number. Then lower the taxes for everyone else.

[DrunkBomber]

To put it in perspective.

 

Payton Manning, arguably the best QB in the NFL, got $34.5m guaranteed on record breaking deal.

 

Russell, who had never thrown an NFL pass, got $29m guaranteed.

 

So there is a $5.5m difference between the best QB in the league, and a kid who has never played an NFL down.

 

Two other notables. Calvin Johnson has the 2nd highest number. He got $27.2m guaranteed. I believe that makes him the highest paid WR in the NFL. So a kid who has never caught a pass gets more guaranteed coin than Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, etc.

 

Mario Williams got $26.5m guaranteed. If it were not for Freeney, Mario Williams would be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, in terms of guaranteed coin. Still, 2nd highest is pretty sick.

 

It is because of these sort of examples I believe something will be done before too much longer. Look no further than how teams are trying to get rid of the top pick in the draft, because the guaranteed money is simply not worth the risk. So no question teams would like to see a rookie cap. Further, I think the NFL players association would not mind, as the NFLPA represenst NFL players, not kids who are not yet in the league. And those NFL players are getting totally hosed by rookie deals. Veterans who have proven themselves still end up w/ contracts lower than rookies.

 

I agree that theyre overpaid completely, I was just pointing out that no small market teams are at a disadvantage financially when it comes to signing players. I had to pay close to 500 dollars for two tickets to the Bears/Cowboys game this year so I know how ridiculous it is. I think the bigger problem is the rookie contracts. Top 10 picks should be capped so youre not married to your draft pick for the life of his first contract. Unfortunately for the consumer the NFL is more popular than ever and the demand will always be there so teams are going to be able to continue to raise prices.

 

Mad, its pointless to discuss what might happen IF they drop the salary cap because they havent yet.

The only group (other and rookies) who will strongly fight a change I think would be the agents, who enjoy the 2-3% they get from these ridiculous rookie contracts.

I think what I was saying is getting misinterpreted. One of the first things I said was that the biggest problem was rookies contracts

[madlithuanian]

Apply a straight income tax for eveyone... Just set a certain level, like under $30K, that doesn't get taxed to help lower income folks. Too many rich folks get out of paying any taxes what so ever with all the loopholes and shelters. Make it a straight 10% flat tax and call it a day. We'd save millions in IRS costs, legal fees, etc. All without screwing the middle class over.

 

Sorry to get political...

 

Just tax the hell out of them. Make some type of entertainment luxury tax once they hit a certain number. Then lower the taxes for everyone else.

[bradjock]

Heck, I'd be happy to pay $100.00 a ticket to see a Bear's game. Since the legalization of ticket-brokering, buying and selling tickets is more of a business then ever. For years I'd run into someone happy to dump tickets at face value just cause they couldn't go. Now those tickets go straight to e-bay or stub-hub and you have to pay through the damn nose.

 

If you're not on Ticketmaster at 10:00 a.m. that Saturday morning in July they go on sale, you're screwed. For some reason each of the past 3 years something ignorant has come up which prevented me from doing this (last year the new Harry Potter book came out that day & I stupidly forgot. The year before my wife was knocked up & the year before that I was on a camping trip)

 

Last year I broke down and bought tickets on e-bay. The cheapest pair of seats for opening day ended up costing $385.00 total. (The tickets were originally around $70.00 each) This was upper bowl in the North end-zone.

 

With the parking, concessions, and so on, I just have a helluva a time justifying spending that much money to go to a game when I could save $500.00 by watching it on TV.

 

I agree, the fans are getting screwed, but this is only going to get worse. Considering Soldier Field is a full house every Sunday, I see no end in sight.

 

They only make "more than enough" because they are raping the fans. It's gotten completely ridiculous.

 

The players do not deserve that much money. Period.

 

The owners need to do something about it, or the fans will ultimately suffer.

 

When an upper-deck seat for a Chicago game is upwards of $100, and it's nowhere near the front of the tier, then the fans are getting screwed. We pay because we love the game, but it's complete horseshit. Each and every owner could lower ticket prices if the players weren't getting paid so much.

 

Would they? That's another discussion. All I know is that the rise in ticket prices over the last ten years is directly related to the crazy rise in players' salaries over the same period of time. It makes me hate the "$10M is an insult to me" players even more.