Building for 2009?

[Lucky Luciano]

 

"Well, lets just say this. Success is subjective. Success is the achievement of a goal, or goals. In your opinion, and it is you opinion, the only goal is the SB. I disagree. For many, that is the goal. For many others, there is simply no expectation of a SB, and goals are different. For a team like that, goals could be development of youth, doubling your win total, making the playoffs, winning the division, or whatever."

you are talking about a achieving realistic goals for a team for a season and i agree. you CAN have success achieving goals, you CAN have success exceeding expectations. you can feel good about how the season (within reason) went, you can feel good about your prospects for the next season.

 

but this doesn't correlate to whether that particular season is a success or a failure. i could argue a number of things and reasons why our goals were not met in most any season except '85 if i wanted to and why any given season was not a success even achieving these expectations. so where would the yardstick be placed in your type of success/loss argument?

 

there is only one winner and only that team's season was a success. the other 31 teams failed whether they met expectations and goals they set for themselves or not. the superbowl winner is in the books. they are set in stone and nothing can change that. everything else is just an afterthought.

 

"Also, you asked who's expectations determine success. I would again argue that success is subjective. As a fan, I have little hope of a SB for the bears in 2008. Not at least w/ the team I see now. My expectations. I would probably talk about defensive goals and development of players on offense. QB would be nice. Playoffs might be a goal, but no, the SB is not the goal going in. Does that mean when we lose in the playoffs, I will right away say no problem, they met expectations. No. As teams do better than expected, hopes and expectations jump up, mainly off emotion. But after a bit of time, you can step back and say the season was a success."

again, you are talking about expectations and goals. you can say your goals and expectations for the season were a success and i can possibly agree, but i will never say the results of that season is a success unless you get a ring.

 

"I might point to 2001 as an example. We were supposed to be worst in the division. Even the GM thought little of the team. Then we win 13 games and make our first playoff appearance in however long. IMHO, then and there, the season was a success. We exceeded the goals of most any. But as we played better and better, we started to raise hope and expectations, so when we stunk against Phily, we were ticked. But later, I think most were able to step back and realize just how well the team did."

for the last time i'm going to argue this. the season was not a success. we did exceed some expectations, we did exceed some some goals but this does not put chicago in the books as a superbowl winning team.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I would take Booker over Clark. Clark may be the only receiver on the team slower than Booker. Booker has better hands and runs better routes. Clark is a better blocker, but in terms of skill player, I would agree w/ Booker over Clark.

 

I agree that Booker replaces Moose, but agree too w/ the idea he is our #1 WR. Two years ago, Moose was unquestionably our #1 WR. This past year, we tried to make Berrian our #1. I think we go back to a situation where Booker, like Moose, is our #1 WR. He runs the intermediate routes a QB can rely on. Its a nice thought for your deep threat to be your #1, but w/o an OL that can sustain their blocks, your #1 really needs to be your possession guy.

 

Though I think we are building, and though I really want OL in the first, I would not totally rule out RB. If you consider this as a two year building project, you are more able to simply take the best offensive talent available. If there is a run on OTs (which I fear happens) and you have a RB graded out well ahead of the next OL, WR or QB, I think it makes more sense to grab that RB. When building, you take the studs that fall to you. I can understand drafting for need better when you are trying to fill one of your few holes, but when your hole is your whole offense, you simply take the best available.

I think our WR core goes back to what the core was the superbowl season. Ie, we had Moose who was considered a #1 by us, but wouldnt' be a number one on many teams and than a core of young players, a couple of which had some ability but none being high picks or anything along those lines (Bradley being the highest pick).

 

This season, we again will have a guy as our #1 who truly isn't a #1 (Booker). There is a veteran backup (Lloyd) and two young guys with talent (currently) and probably 3 when it is all said and done (draft) in Hester/Bradley/Draft Pick. At that point you'll hope one sticks and if two do than you can eventually slide Booker into a #3 role where he excels. If they don't, you figure one of Hester/Bradley/draft pick pan out and in 09 you have at least one spot filled and only need to find either a 1 or 2 to join the other young guys that didn't develop as pleased and Booker.

 

The only difference is, the TE position is much stronger now than it was and that could really help the Bears buy time in terms of figuring out the WR core. I really think this is one of those positions that scares the hell out of all of us early on and eventually we grow calm and find out we have something (or it turns into a complete disaster, LOL).

 

Either way, for that to even happen the team will need oline play like the super bowl season and a rushing game similar to that as well.

[bradjock]

I think our WR core goes back to what the core was the superbowl season. Ie, we had Moose who was considered a #1 by us, but wouldnt' be a number one on many teams and than a core of young players, a couple of which had some ability but none being high picks or anything along those lines (Bradley being the highest pick).

 

This season, we again will have a guy as our #1 who truly isn't a #1 (Booker). There is a veteran backup (Lloyd) and two young guys with talent (currently) and probably 3 when it is all said and done (draft) in Hester/Bradley/Draft Pick. At that point you'll hope one sticks and if two do than you can eventually slide Booker into a #3 role where he excels. If they don't, you figure one of Hester/Bradley/draft pick pan out and in 09 you have at least one spot filled and only need to find either a 1 or 2 to join the other young guys that didn't develop as pleased and Booker.

 

The only difference is, the TE position is much stronger now than it was and that could really help the Bears buy time in terms of figuring out the WR core. I really think this is one of those positions that scares the hell out of all of us early on and eventually we grow calm and find out we have something (or it turns into a complete disaster, LOL).

 

Either way, for that to even happen the team will need oline play like the super bowl season and a rushing game similar to that as well.

 

So basically you're saying we're REALLY not that far away from getting back to the Super Bowl.

 

IMO this team is and should be CONSTANTLY trying to build for the future, while at the same time trying to win now. By resigning our top guys (minus Berrian who is overrated) and having a strong draft every year, there's no reason why we can't be contenders year in and year out.

[chitownman]

It definitely seems that this may be the case that JA and company are planning for 2009 versus 2008. I am still not convinced that we will be any better in 2008 then we were in 2007. Personally I am always hoping that my team goes at minimum .500 for each season, anything above that is just icing on the cake. Making the playoffs is nice, winning a playoff game is even better, winning the championship is definitely the best. Still have too much time prior to the Draft and Training Camp that there may still be things that will be worked out by JA. What they are specifically I am not sure and really am not expecting a lot. I just hope that the Bears do improve to 8-8 and anything more is that much better.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

So basically you're saying we're REALLY not that far away from getting back to the Super Bowl.

 

IMO this team is and should be CONSTANTLY trying to build for the future, while at the same time trying to win now. By resigning our top guys (minus Berrian who is overrated) and having a strong draft every year, there's no reason why we can't be contenders year in and year out.

Exactly. That is also because I feel our defense will rebound greatly, plus I have faith in Angelo putting together a strong draft and making the right decisions in terms of who to sign, who to let go internally (because at times you are going to have to let a guy walk to give another player an opportunity for fiscal reasons).

 

There will be a lot of pressure on this years draft though. Angelo can't have first day picks like Wolfe/Bazunin who don't end up really having much of an impact early on (Wolfe pick I still think is one of the worse picks I've seen the Bears make in some time).