Site operation poll: how should the forums work

[LT2_3]

Lloyd,

 

I have deleted your salary cap post as you requested.

 

Thank you.

 

I showed you no disrespect. I received your email Monday. I worked M-S of this week, this is my first day off since getting your email. I do not check my email daily, but I see it was dated the 12th. Every day this week I got up at 4:30 AM and left the house for work by 5:30 AM. Every day I returned to my home between 6:45 & 7:15 PM. Back to bed between 8 & 8:30 PM. I took awhile trying to figure out today just how to delete a post, finally found all the Admin options and deleted your post. First time I had to use these controls.

 

Pix, I have no beef with you. I know you are incredibly busy. My complaint is with the other board admins that have been here and posting in other threads. My request has gone completely ignored until you made this post. Not even a PM or email about NOT doing it for whatever reason. Just cold shoulder all the way.

 

I truly do not understand why you are upset. You explained it to me in the email & you have posted your opinions on the forum. Still does not make sense to me. There is a poll up to get feedback from the users of the site as to how they would like the forums to be structured. I am sure when the results are in there will be some changes made. It appears that many (16 out of 20) want just about everything NFL related left in the Bearstalk forum 8 wanting the NFL forum closed entirely.

 

Which is a good sign from my point of view. However, when I first brought up the subject, I was pretty easy going about it and explained that the change was NOT the way we did things at Bearstalk:

 

Hey Balta, you're a little quick on the trigger there. Those of us that came over from Bearstalk aren't used to other forums because everything NFL related is automatically Bear related. I for one have zero interest in using or reading other forums. If it's mildly Bear related, you should really leave it when it's posted here IMO. I bookmark this specific forum and come directly here. Period. I don't like multiple forums.

 

And the response admitted that the NFL forum isn't being used, but instead of ceasing and desisting until it could be discussed, the answer was to CONTINUE to move things around. There was no "I didn't realize this would bother folks so much, let's figure it out as a board together and I'll stop doing it until it's figured out." The answer was:

 

Unfortunately, this forum has been pretty darn dead. So at least for now, I'm going to try to keep signings that don't involve the Bears explicitly moved in here. It's perfectly ok to discuss the Bears here, but it's wroth a little effort to try to keep this forum moving and to keep stuff surviving on the front page of the Bears forum

 

Or in other words, "I really don't give a crap what other people think and I'm going to do what I damn well please whether it upsets anyone or not."

 

So if you feel disrespected because I did not take time to interrupt my hectic schedule to delete your article, I do not apologize. I did the best I could for you. If you feel slighted because an admin promised you a poll in 2 hrs and it took 12, well, maybe that admin had good reason. The main thing is he did what he said, he posted a poll. It wasn't until recent that anyone really raised much objection. It was clearly time to get feedback. We are getting it. Adjustments will be made if warranted. ALL admins do care about what our posters opinions.

 

I didn't feel disrespected because of your actions (or inactions) Pix, I felt disrespected because it took DAYS for my request for my Salary Cap article to be deleted to be executed. If the other admins know how to move threads, I'm quite certain that they can figure out how to delete a thread. I have no problem with you because you haven't been around, posting in other threads, and blatantly ignoring my request.

 

You want respect. Well so do I. Everyone here does. Most everyone here shows respect for each other. We are a community as nfo said, or a family as I have always referred to the forum. If you do not feel that way then you are missing out on something special. I feel sorry for you.

 

Well I used to feel that way. However being totally blown off when I point out that changes are being made without consulting the members at large changed that. What it comes down to is quite simply (and perhaps overdramatically) is government without representation. Things have been done one way from day 1 here: Everything in 1 forum. Then an admin that I don't know starts moving threads which is a CHANGE in how things are done. Members from Bearstalk start saying stuff that it's a change and that we don't like it, AND THE GUY CONTINUES TO DO IT THAT WAY ANYWAY. If I hadn't gotten upset about this, would there have even BEEN a board discussion? I doubt it and that's the root of the problem. I understand that merging two different boards will take patience on both sides, but do the folks from the other board realize that too? Apparently NOT by their actions. They just do whatever they want and our opinions apparently don't matter until someone gets pissed off.

 

I will not get into the reasons for the move or the details involved. I have gone into that before. I will say that no one was lied to. No one was misled. If there was any misrepresentation I assure you it was unintentional. The move was absolutely necessary. Many made it over. Most decided they liked it enough to stay and give it a try. Some did not like it and left. I hope you stay. It's your choice.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I never said that you guys lied to us. I'm suggesting that the imminence of the problem was overstated by the folks that ran the other board. The fact that it's still there and functional proves that to be the case.

 

As for me staying, we'll see how it goes. You've taken a step in the right direction Pix by doing what I asked where others didn't. There are other admins that I'm not familiiar with that are going to have to do something to earn my respect back. Nothing too drastic or formal is required. Something along the lines of recognizing that making arbitrary decisions without discussing them as a board is wrong, and actually following through on reasonable user requests instead of ignoring them would be a great start. I would've been happy with an email along the lines of "Hey LT - I didn't mean to piss you off so much. I don't feel comfotable deleting your thread until I talk the situation over with the other admins - and I'm currently waiting for them to get back to me." At least then I wouldn't have felt completely blown off.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I just wanted to say that while this thread is up, that if there is any sort of feature that any of the members would like to see added or any adjustments made please feel free to let us know. We as the admins/mods are not here to run this board as dictators.

 

We are just here to ocassionally get involved in situations where moderation is needed and to do things behind the scenes to ensure proper server set up or add features which members have requested. Given this group, which I've been a part of for over 10 years (crazy to even think that), I know that rarely is any sort of moderation needed as while things can get heated at times, everyone has always shown a great detail of respect for the fellow members.

 

Bottom line, I don't want anyone to think that we as admins just do things because we can. We are all here to just lend our helping hand when its needed, that is it. This is an awesome community and one that I'm proud to be a part of.

[nfoligno]

I haven't figured out the nuances, and miss being able to pick and choose who I read.

 

Just one suggestion, if you have not already done this. Near the top right, you will see an options button. Under that, I believe you see "display" and below that "outline". Click on that. You may or may not like it, but the outline view is FAR more similar to what we had at the old board.

[nfoligno]

I have one for you. It is an IT or technical issue that may or may not even be possible.

 

I, as I would suspend many from the old bearstalk board, post while in the outline view/display mode. Under this view, there is a FAR greater similarity to the old board, simply making the transition, well, simpler. Problem is, while in the outline mode, the posts are no longer numbered.

 

You see the "tree" of posts, which shows better (IMHO) who is replying to who. You see the poster - the subject/first line - date.

 

Is there anyway to include the post number in the outline mode? It would make things SOOOOOOO much easier when you start to have a longer thread that goes for a few days. When you leave and come back, it would make it so much easier if posts were numbered, and to more easily find the most recented.

 

One more thing, and this may be my lack of knowledge as opposed to need for change. When posting a reply, is there no way to title your response? I have figured out the first line will be seen, but it doesn't stop except (I think) after a certain number of characters. Is there not a way to title/subject heading responses?

['TD']

Thanks alot, I tried it out when i first got here, but forgot how you did it.

 

It's still not the same in a couple aspects tho. The person commenting on your post may not have commented in reply to your post., and you may not read that part..

 

Also, I miss how one thread would spawn like 5 discussions. Each branch being a different one, I suppose with people using different lay outs respectively it's harder for that to happen. It probably looks odd to people when you are commenting on one part of the discussion, but they are seeing it after something completely different.

['TD']

Just one suggestion, if you have not already done this. Near the top right, you will see an options button. Under that, I believe you see "display" and below that "outline". Click on that. You may or may not like it, but the outline view is FAR more similar to what we had at the old board.

Lol, I just showed a perfect example of what I was talking about. I accidentally replied down below you, making another branch instead of being after your message

[nfoligno]

I don't know. When I look at the thread tree, it looks like what you are saying you want. Basically, you have one original thread, and then some replies create greater points of discussion.

 

I have seen what you mean though, in that some replies are obviously intended to be for a specific comment, but get dumped down at the bottom. I can only assume it is because, like you said, maybe they are responded in a different view, and thus their reply doesn't get placed as it should. I really don't know.

 

At the end of the day, I guess this is how I look at it. For years, I posted on the Trib message board, which I loved. Then, as I understand it, money was pulled from the site, and the admin of it went downhill, as did the quality of the site in general. Finally, I (and many/most) bolted that site. I ended up at Bearstalk, and it was quite different. At the start, I thought the format was inferior, but after a while, I forgot what the previous setup was like, and simply became used to the new format. I think it is similar now. There are differences which can be frustrating at times, but at the same time, there are plenty of the old posters w/ some new ones thrown in. The format has meaning for me, but w/o trying to get too sappy, it is more about the communty.

 

Speaking of which, I miss crackdog. I personally blame him for my # of posts being as low as it is. My debates w/ him would really have a way of jacking up my numbers:)

[adam]

I have seen what you mean though, in that some replies are obviously intended to be for a specific comment, but get dumped down at the bottom. I can only assume it is because, like you said, maybe they are responded in a different view, and thus their reply doesn't get placed as it should. I really don't know.

nfo,

If the poster hits the reply button or quote and reply button under the person they are responding to, it should keep it in that tree. However, if they just hit the big Add Reply button at the bottom, I think that one sends the comment to the end. I will test with my next post. This one was in reply to your last one.

[adam]

This post was created using the Add Reply button at the bottom. Mods you can delete, it was just a test.

 

I haven't ever seen the option to title a post, only a thread, and I have never seen the post numbered in outline view. This should be an option since they are numbered in the standard view.

[Pixote]

Just one suggestion, if you have not already done this. Near the top right, you will see an options button. Under that, I believe you see "display" and below that "outline". Click on that. You may or may not like it, but the outline view is FAR more similar to what we had at the old board.

 

It seems this collapsed thread (outline) display on the Talkbears forum is the one issue that has cost us the most as far as posters from the old Bearstalk migrating over to this forum. I know I miss it very much myself.

 

I have gone back a few times and viewed the old site and the site that the owners of the old site are transferring posters to. You will see a few posters saying this site sucks and is not for them. When I email them they almost always mention they do not like the collapsed thread mode. Even some of the posters who did come over to TalkBears from BearsTalk (in addition to TD) have said they do not post as much because they do not like the outline mode.

 

We have to remember that hundreds of posters who went to the old site went there for many reasons. Most because of the great group of fans we had there. However some joined because they liked the linear threads.

[nfoligno]

nfo,

If the poster hits the reply button or quote and reply button under the person they are responding to, it should keep it in that tree. However, if they just hit the big Add Reply button at the bottom, I think that one sends the comment to the end. I will test with my next post. This one was in reply to your last one.

 

This post was created using the Add Reply button at the bottom. Mods you can delete, it was just a test.

 

I haven't ever seen the option to title a post, only a thread, and I have never seen the post numbered in outline view. This should be an option since they are numbered in the standard view.

 

I added the second quote from your second post, since you asked for it to be deleted.

 

First off, thank you for taking the time to check into these matters.

 

I see what you mean by the "add reply" button, as opposed to simply replying. Thank you for looking into that.

 

W/ regard to the numbering and the subject heading, I sort of figured it was possible, but something that had to be set up by an admin in the format layout rules, and something that can not be done by just any admin. From past experience w/ other programs, you often have a few admins, but usually one or two w/ the ability to alter "rules". Anyway, point is, when you have a field in one view, you usually have it in another view, but the rule may need to be established for it to be part of that 2nd view. Does that make sense?

 

As for the title/ subject heading aspect, I think of it as something that simply helps keep threads clean. Not everyone will use it, and when not filled in, it can default to the 1st line, as it does now. But if you have a reply subject box, it can better allow a description of your post, so those you are talking to know it. I realize I can simply put whatever title I want as the first line of my post, but as I do not know the character rule, the subject will continue on w/ part of the 2nd line as well, and frankly, it just doens't look as good.

 

Anyway, these were simply a couple small things I noticed that I felt could better bridge the new and old sites, as well as potentially enhance it for many posters. Thank you for you time and effort.

[nfoligno]

W/ thanks to prophet, it appears the inconsistency issue has been figured out. If you hit the "add reply" button, which I believe is located at the very bottom of the thread, it will drop the response to the bottom of the thread, as if you were replying to the original post itself. If you hit the "reply" bottom which immediately follows the text of the post you want to reply to, it should place your response in the tree where you intend for it to be.

 

I would chalk this issue up to learning curve. Ditto w/ the outline view we talked about. In addition, I have asked Prophet to check into a pair of other minor tweaks which could further bridge the transition between old and new.

 

Personally, I blame you. 60 or so posts? Come on. You should be hitting 60 or so per day. Then you would be very used to the style and flying through the threads.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'm not aware of the ability to add a subject line, but later this week when my work schedule finally calms down (I work at a Public Accounting firm so the first few months of the year are absolute hell so I have little time to do any backend sort of site stuff).

 

I also know I have to add links to the top of the forums (to mock drafts, chicago bears.com, etc) as well as the chat room (which will be for sure up in time for draft day).

[nfoligno]

What, this isn't your full time job? I thought you were making a six figure salary as admin for this site

 

Seriously, thanks for any effort in checking out the things I mentioned. If it is simply not possible, or it is decided I am the only one wanting these changes, so be it. Thanks regardless for the time and effort.

[adam]

nfo,

I'm not an Admin here, but I am familiar with IPB. In the Admin controls, I do not see anything that adds the Post# to the Outline mode. That is something that should be added.

 

For changing the Title topic on your post, the only option I can see is "Can edit own topic title & description?", which defaults to "No". However, I do not think this would allow a user who did not create the topic to actually change his own post title. Again, this is something that would be very nice to see.

Edited March 17, 2008 by The Prophet

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Prophet, I assume you are indicating that you would like those things added by Invision (which is the company that designs the software)? Or do you know of any sort of modifcation that we can make to the software that would allow that?

[adam]

Prophet, I assume you are indicating that you would like those things added by Invision (which is the company that designs the software)? Or do you know of any sort of modifcation that we can make to the software that would allow that?

Yes, Invision would need to add those in a future release. I will post something in their forums about it. It is also possible that it can be done via scripting but I have not explored that avenue yet. Also, there might be some 3rd party add-ons that already provide that functionality.

[balta1701-A]

Ok, so based on the feedback we've gotten in this thread...here's the suggestion it seems like a couple of the admins here are starting to lean towards.

 

Bears forum: Anything NFL related allowed in here.

General sports forum: Anything else, from college football to the NCAA tourney to Ontario League Hockey.

Forum for everything else. News, politics, random comments, whatever.

 

Would that setup make people happier, and equally important...would people actually ever frequent the other 2 forums? Even if it was just in college football season or whatever.

[madlithuanian]

That would be fine by me. I do thnk that there could be a case for just a Non-Bears NFL area. But, I personally don't mind either or. I think I'd only find myself bringing up other players/team only if a Spygate happened again. Otherwise, I'm just talkin' Bears.

 

Thanks for seeing this through!

 

Ok, so based on the feedback we've gotten in this thread...here's the suggestion it seems like a couple of the admins here are starting to lean towards.

 

Bears forum: Anything NFL related allowed in here.

General sports forum: Anything else, from college football to the NCAA tourney to Ontario League Hockey.

Forum for everything else. News, politics, random comments, whatever.

 

Would that setup make people happier, and equally important...would people actually ever frequent the other 2 forums? Even if it was just in college football season or whatever.