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March 23, 2008

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NFL teams weigh Wonderlic tests

One of the many variables NFL teams are factoring into their draft grades are scores from the Wonderlic tests given at the scouting combine. Wonderlic tests are given to help gauge the intelligence of prospects.

 

NFL teams expect most prospects will score well because players can prepare for the tests. When a player has an unusually low score, it sets off alarms.

 

A person of average intelligence is supposed to score a 20. NFL teams like to see quarterbacks, offensive linemen, middle linebackers and safeties score higher than that because those positions can be mentally demanding.

 

At the quarterback position, none of the top prospects laid a Wonderlic egg. Boston College'sMatt Ryan, he of the off-the-charts intangibles, scored an impressive 32. And his score was matched by Lousiville's Brian Brohm, who is the second-highest-rated quarterback after Ryan on most boards.

 

Joe Flacco of Delaware scored a 27 and Chad Henne of Michigan scored a 22. Both are considered second-round prospects.

 

Most of the top offensive linemen also tested well. Michigan'sJake Long scored a 26. Pittsburgh's Jeff Otah scored a 28. Southern California's Sam Baker scored a 27. Vanderbilt's Chris Williams scored a 32. Boston College's Godser Cherilus scored a 25. Virginia's Brandon Albert scored a 23.

 

Boise State offensive tackleRyan Clady had the only disappointing score from the top group of blockers, a 13.

 

At the linebacker position there are two players who look like surefire first-rounders, but one tested better than the other. Tennessee'sJerod Mayo scored a 26 while USC's Keith Rivers scored a 16. Rivers' test probably won't hurt his stock because most teams consider him an outside linebacker.

 

Kenny Phillips of Miami, the only safety expected to go in the first round, did not help himself with a 16 test score.

Williams with 32 looks good. Anything under 20 is pretty bad. Under 15, brutal. If the playbooks are more complex in the NFL, some of those guys will struggle. Not to say that they can't be good, it just puts them behind the power curve.

Yeah but what was Hester's wonderlic?

 

That guy is not very smart, but awful good.

How Bears players did:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=560664

 

The roster's not up-to-date, but it gives you some idea.

 

Edit: Hester got an 18.

How Bears players did:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=560664

 

The roster's not up-to-date, but it gives you some idea.

 

Edit: Hester got an 18.

 

Didnt Dusty get like a 41?

Didnt Dusty get like a 41?

 

Yeah,

 

So looking at those Vasher, Harris and Hester are all pretty bad.

Yeah but what was Hester's wonderlic?

 

That guy is not very smart, but awful good.

Kick returner isnt really a position you need to be real smart to play at. Offensive lineman, Qbs etc have to think on the fly a lot more where a guy like Hester just goes and lets his natural instincts take over. I

Kick returner isnt really a position you need to be real smart to play at. Offensive lineman, Qbs etc have to think on the fly a lot more where a guy like Hester just goes and lets his natural instincts take over.

Dude, come on. Terrence Metcalf got an 11 and he's an absolute star!! Not to mention St. Clair with an 18!!!

Danieal Manning with a 14, no wonder he struggles reading plays at the safety position.

how much would it suck to be a football player and have your football "IQ" posted out there for everyone to see and talk about

"Boise State offensive tackleRyan Clady had the only disappointing score from the top group of blockers, a 13." got to be from Idaho...

"Boise State offensive tackleRyan Clady had the only disappointing score from the top group of blockers, a 13." got to be from Idaho...

 

 

As I was saying.....

As I was saying.....

 

 

LOL...

how much would it suck to be a football player and have your football "IQ" posted out there for everyone to see and talk about

One, if we want Hester to play WR, would you not agree that is a position that very much needs to show a level of smarts?

 

Two, of all the positions on the offense, I would think OL the least of those in need of a high IQ. You learn your blocking, but I am not sure you need to master the playbook quite much. You need to know the plays, sure, but I simply do not think it would be equal to the QB or WRs.

Sorry, but I have a hard time feeling to sorry for them as they take their IQ to the bank.

One, if we want Hester to play WR, would you not agree that is a position that very much needs to show a level of smarts?

 

Two, of all the positions on the offense, I would think OL the least of those in need of a high IQ. You learn your blocking, but I am not sure you need to master the playbook quite much. You need to know the plays, sure, but I simply do not think it would be equal to the QB or WRs.

Look at the Colts in that link I posted -- Harrison and Wayne both had abysmal Wonderlic scores, so I'd say it's not important for a wr. Really, you're not interacting as much as a wr, you're just sort of out there on your own, running your route, blocking the cb. (An oversimplification, but more or less true.) A lineman needs to know not only how to run a play, he needs to know how to react to every possible defensive shift/blitz/etc, and, just as important, he needs to know how everyone around him will react. There's a lot more complexity.

Sorry, but I have a hard time feeling to sorry for them as they take their IQ to the bank.

 

I understand how the process works. Im just saying its easy to pick these people apart based on a recent "iq" test applied to the players. I cant even imagine if I was applyign for a job and the people standing behind me are snickering "Look what he got. Im gonna get paid so much more"

 

Im not saying i want to change the system, its just a brutal system

I am not saying there is not complexity, but I think there is a massive over-simplification there.

 

At Wr, you need to know all the routes and know well each and every play. That is a lot right there. But you also have to know the adjustables very well. Further, many offenses expect the WR to know the defense, and adjust.

 

I am not saying anyone can block, but w/ the exception of the center, I do not agree OL need as much by way of smarts as WR.

No argument it is a brutal system. At the same time, have you ever been asked, "What would you do for $1m dollars?"

 

So, would you bomb and IQ test and face public scrutiny for $1m?

 

Yea, it is brutal, but some perspective here. They get paid VERY well to deal w/ this brutality.

Maybe this test is pointless. Briggs- 15 PRO BOWLER, Tommie- 11 PRO BOWLER, Vasher 13- top 10 CB

Not pointless. Just not the only factor. Just as a player w/ a weaker 40 time may still prove to be an elite player, a guy w/ a low IQ test can still prove not only capable, but football smart.

 

The wonderlic is one of many tests/factors, of which I would argue you try not to place too much emphasis on any one. Do you look at it and consider it. Yes. But it is no more than that. A consideration or factor.

I am not saying there is not complexity, but I think there is a massive over-simplification there.

 

At Wr, you need to know all the routes and know well each and every play. That is a lot right there. But you also have to know the adjustables very well. Further, many offenses expect the WR to know the defense, and adjust.

 

I am not saying anyone can block, but w/ the exception of the center, I do not agree OL need as much by way of smarts as WR.

Sure, a wr has a lot to learn, but my point is that it's mostly his own stuff. He will adjust his route based on zone/man, jamming, etc, but he won't run a different route because the other wr got jammed, or because the defense sent the mike on a delayed blitz. A lineman has just as many adjustments, depending on the defensive alignment/blitzes, but he also has to consider what everyone around him is doing. That's the really hard part -- not knowing your job, but knowing everyone else's, too. And while the center & qb will call out assignments, but they're not mind-readers, they don't know who's blitzing or stunting. Those adjustments have to be made without communication, instantly, by every person on the line.

 

Plus, again, it really hasn't seemed to hurt Harrison and Wayne.

I would argue it depends on scheme. For example, on the bears a couple years ago, we ran a scheme where the WR and QB were supposed to read a defense, and adjust w/o communication. If the two didn't read the defense the same, the results were poor, which is what we often saw.

 

All positions must show some level of brains/smarts. I am not arguing OL is an exception, but still question how great it is. While OL has to know various audibles, I would argue the actual number of assignments is less than the number of routes a WR must learn.

 

Now the one thing I would throw out there. I would say WR is a position where talent can better overcome a lack of IQ. Hence why it is considered a skill position.

 

As for Harrison and Wayne, you say their wonderlic was low. Fine. But I am sure we can find plenty of OL who had low wonderlics as well, and still were very good players. There will always be plenty of exceptions.

 

For me, the main position I would have an issue w/ the wonderlic is at QB. After QB, wonderlic is simply not as great of a factor too me.

Harrison and Wayne have been in the same offense with the same QB and OC for how many years? I'm sure everyone has seen Peyton get mad at Wayne for running the wrong route in a game. At least I've seen it several times. Put either guy through the Bears OC carousel and lets see how they do. I don't want to diminish Harrison's accomplishments because he's had a great career but he's also had a great situation in Indy.

 

Tommy Harris has to do one thing on every single play...swim move through the assigned gap and step forward toward the QB as fast as possible. It ain't difficult to know your assignment as a DT in our scheme.