I'm coming to terms...

[nfoligno]

Couple things.

 

One. This may be an argument of words over meaning, but you said it is not so easy to find a good back. I think it is, but would also add that it is not so easy to find a great back. Frankly, I am not sure which you meant because while you said good, I believe you consider Mendenhal great, thus the logic behind drafting him.

 

I think the league is loaded w/ good backs who were found throughout the draft, and beyond. Good backs are ones, IMHO, who can put up 1,200, 1,300 or more yards behind a good OL, but will look very average behind a lesser OL. Great backs are a step above. These are the guys who can not only do well (1,200 yards on a 4.2 ypc avg.) behind a good OL, but dominate. These are the backs that can put up 1,500 yards. Who can carry an offense. Who can score high numbers, even against stacked boxes. These game changers are not easy to find. Good backs i think are.

 

Two. You said you believe Mendenhal is a top 10 pick. I disagree, but at the same time, far more understand your logic and reasoning for wanting to draft him over OT. If I felt he was a top 10 pick who slipped to the 14th spot due, in large part, to team needs of the top 13 picks, I may then be more on board w/ taking him over OT, which I find to be a far greater need. Clady may be the excpeption, as I think he may well be a top 10 value as well. But if we are sitting there at 14, and I am looking at Williams v Mendy....

 

In that scenario, I see why you would take Mendy. You view him as a top 10 pick, while you view Williams as maybe a good value at 14, but not a steal, which you believe Mendy is. That is fine. I can understand that logic. I simply do not view Mendy as a top 10 pick. I think his value is right about where we are sitting now. If we took him, he would be a solid value pick, but I would not consider him a steal. I view Williams and Otah the same, but feel OL is simply a greater need. Thus, values being about equal, I take the greater need. You simply disagree on values.

 

 

Three. We were on the same page on Derrick Johnson. He was my #1 choice, and it was not even close. Likely different from you, I will admit I liked Benson. I would add that, in hind sight, I am not sure passing on DJ was a mistake. I question how great he would have looked in our system. He has excelled in KC, but at WLB, which is well filled by Briggs. That means he would have had to play SLB, and I am not sure how well he would have developed there. I would add that, so many times, Rivera talked about how the SLB in our system is more of a grunt player. One that is not often in a position to made big impact plays. One who often takes on the TE and eats up blockers. You can argue, as I tried back then, how we would change our system to better utilize DJ, but I am not sure we have coaches who do that. I think we have coaches who more try to force players into their system, rather than adapt the system to the players. So as high as I was on DJ, I am not sure he would have been that great for us, and think he would have been more likely considered a bust for us if we took him.

[madlithuanian]

I'm trying to take over for CrackerDog!

 

Your point on the good/great is correct. I do really think Mendenhall will be great.

 

I completely follow your thoughts. For instance, I thought TJ was good...not geat. And while the OL was preforming well, he did well.

 

I understand that most folks will disagree with me that Mendenhall is a top 10 pick...justifyably so! I'm glad you do follow my logic that if that were a given, it makes sense to take him at 14. I would also mention of all the "other" OL is somewhat dismiss, Clady I do find a little more intruiging than the rest.

 

I think I do recall you mentioning you wanted D Johnson as well! I apologize for not recalling that! (Too many Old Styles...) I can see your thinking that he may not have excelled as much here than KC...but I just have to think that talent would over-rule the position and he would be better than Hunter (as much as I like Hunter). He would probably be one of these unsung guys in the league... Those in the know would say he makes a difference, but there aren't stats for what he'd do. I guess it's moot regardless! But, I really think we'd have been better off in the long run. Odss are TJ would still be here doing a decent job and the D would be slightly better as well... Just a Madden-esque fantization!

 

Couple things.

 

One. This may be an argument of words over meaning, but you said it is not so easy to find a good back. I think it is, but would also add that it is not so easy to find a great back. Frankly, I am not sure which you meant because while you said good, I believe you consider Mendenhal great, thus the logic behind drafting him.

 

I think the league is loaded w/ good backs who were found throughout the draft, and beyond. Good backs are ones, IMHO, who can put up 1,200, 1,300 or more yards behind a good OL, but will look very average behind a lesser OL. Great backs are a step above. These are the guys who can not only do well (1,200 yards on a 4.2 ypc avg.) behind a good OL, but dominate. These are the backs that can put up 1,500 yards. Who can carry an offense. Who can score high numbers, even against stacked boxes. These game changers are not easy to find. Good backs i think are.

 

Two. You said you believe Mendenhal is a top 10 pick. I disagree, but at the same time, far more understand your logic and reasoning for wanting to draft him over OT. If I felt he was a top 10 pick who slipped to the 14th spot due, in large part, to team needs of the top 13 picks, I may then be more on board w/ taking him over OT, which I find to be a far greater need. Clady may be the excpeption, as I think he may well be a top 10 value as well. But if we are sitting there at 14, and I am looking at Williams v Mendy....

 

In that scenario, I see why you would take Mendy. You view him as a top 10 pick, while you view Williams as maybe a good value at 14, but not a steal, which you believe Mendy is. That is fine. I can understand that logic. I simply do not view Mendy as a top 10 pick. I think his value is right about where we are sitting now. If we took him, he would be a solid value pick, but I would not consider him a steal. I view Williams and Otah the same, but feel OL is simply a greater need. Thus, values being about equal, I take the greater need. You simply disagree on values.

Three. We were on the same page on Derrick Johnson. He was my #1 choice, and it was not even close. Likely different from you, I will admit I liked Benson. I would add that, in hind sight, I am not sure passing on DJ was a mistake. I question how great he would have looked in our system. He has excelled in KC, but at WLB, which is well filled by Briggs. That means he would have had to play SLB, and I am not sure how well he would have developed there. I would add that, so many times, Rivera talked about how the SLB in our system is more of a grunt player. One that is not often in a position to made big impact plays. One who often takes on the TE and eats up blockers. You can argue, as I tried back then, how we would change our system to better utilize DJ, but I am not sure we have coaches who do that. I think we have coaches who more try to force players into their system, rather than adapt the system to the players. So as high as I was on DJ, I am not sure he would have been that great for us, and think he would have been more likely considered a bust for us if we took him.

[madlithuanian]

I hear ya...

 

I guess it boils down to whether it tastes great or is less filling! Personal preference...

 

And you know there isn't a snowball's chance that JA is going to trade up that far to get him. Mendenhall would be a great addition, but I'm in the camp that says we gotta have Oline help and if one of the big OTs are there at 14 I want us to take him.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

he was only a 3rd round pick in Angelo's eyes. We have no RB capable of starting for any team, its a joke. We need to shoreup the Oline thru FA and later draft picks.

I agree. The Bears clearly have a deficiency in the backfield. You have Benson who has proven nothing except that he'll get hurt and that he has a less than stellar attitdue (and this is coming from someone who likes Benson). Peterson has shown he is nothing more than a 3rd down back and Garret Wolfe was the dumbest pick (given the Bears personell on special teams and in the backfield alreadY) as he doesn't have the tools to ever be anything more than a 3rd down back (and the Bears already had a solid one of those).

 

Felix Jones and Mendenhall both seem like excellent fits. In Jones case playing behind McFadden means he will come to the NFL fresher but it also means he'll be less experienced. He has all the tools to be an elite back though as does Mendenhall. Stewart has the tools to be a workhorse type of back (which is what I thought Benson was going to be).

 

Regardless, I believe the Chicago Bears 2 biggest needs are at the RB and Oline position. The next position in line would be the WR position (which while the Bears have some legitimate NFL talent, they do not have proven commodities at the position) and the safety position (again, some talent is there, but the production has been sub-par). After that, finally QB enters the equation.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I told you guys before the Bears drafted Benson that it was a bad idea.

 

I'm telling you, again, that drafting a RB at 14 is a mistake unless it's McFadden (which ain't gonna happen).

 

Read the signature below...

Lets not forget that Mike Williams would have been an even bigger bust. Bottom line is, the guy the Bears picked is a bust and I'd be surprised if he's anything but that.

[nfoligno]

I think I do recall you mentioning you wanted D Johnson as well! I apologize for not recalling that! (Too many Old Styles...) I can see your thinking that he may not have excelled as much here than KC...but I just have to think that talent would over-rule the position and he would be better than Hunter (as much as I like Hunter). He would probably be one of these unsung guys in the league... Those in the know would say he makes a difference, but there aren't stats for what he'd do. I guess it's moot regardless! But, I really think we'd have been better off in the long run. Odss are TJ would still be here doing a decent job and the D would be slightly better as well... Just a Madden-esque fantization!

 

One. You say you think DJ would have done well enough, stating that you believe "talent would over-rule the position". My case in point to counter would be to remind you Urlacher started out at SLB, and looked freaking awful. He was constantly tied up by blockers and unable to be the play maker he is today. Urlacher is one of the best LBs in the league, but in the wrong position, not only would have missed out on all the pro bowls, but may not have even been a starter. He looked that bad at SLB.

 

Does that mean DJ would have looked equally as bad? Not sure, but I tend to think maybe. If DJ were slotted at SLB in a system that better utilizes the position, it may have been different, which is what I wanted. But in our system, where the SLB spends his day taking on blockers and paving the way for Urlacher, not to mention sitting down on many 3rd downs and nickel situations, I simply tend to think DJ would have been declared a major bust for us.

 

Hind sight 20/20, if we wanted a SLB, Ware or Merriman would have likely been the better choice over DJ. The only way DJ would have made sense is if we would have moved Briggs to SLB, but Briggs has set a pretty high bar that DJ would have had to equal to make that a better choice.

 

Ironically, that top 10 that year pretty much sucked.

 

1 - Alex Smith - After three years, SF has no idea if they have a QB, but the thought is no.

2 - Ronnie Brown - Personally, I think he has been great, but on a horrible offense and suffered injuries to make matters worse.

3 - Braylon Edwards - Stud. Loved him on my FF team. He is an exception, not the rule, in this group though.

4 - Benson

5 - Caddilac - Looked like a stud early, and now looks like a dud.

6 - Pac Man - Not only a bust, but an embarassment

7 - Troy Williams - Bust

8 - Antrel Rolle - I think he is okay, but has not developed into the DB expected. Not even close.

9 - Carlos Rogers - I know little about him, which to me implies he has not lived up to his billing.

10 - Mike Williams - Bust on a level that makes Benson look like a stud.

 

Besides Edwards, this is a really ugly group. Ironically, the next 10 looked far better w/: Ware, Merriman, Brown (starting OL), Derrick Johnson, and a few other good, but not great starters. Not a good year to have a top 10 pick.

 

2. You say two things I tend to believe conflict each other. First, you state that TJ was a good (not great) RB who performed well when our OL performed well. Later, you say that if we didn't draft Benson, TJ would still be here doing a decent job. Really? I am not sure NYJ's OL was any worse than ours, and would probably argue it was better, and TJ stunk for them. If you believe so goes the OL, so goes TJ, what makes you think he would have done even "decent" behind last years OL.

 

You continue to state that if we didn't draft Benson (implying we took DJ) our defense would be better. I question this too. DJ is simply not a SLB. He is a LB who's game is based off speed, suited for WLB, and who IMHO, would be eaten up at SLB. In fact, I would argue Hunter would be an upgrade at SLB to DJ.

 

3. You want Madden-esq fantasy. How about this. Instead of taking Benson, we trade down w/ Dallas for their 11th and 2nd rounder (42nd pick) which would be solid value per the chart. We draft the following:

 

11th - DeMarcus Ware - Excellent SLB who plays the run, is pretty good in coverage and can really get after the QB (33.5 sacks in his 3 seasons). I take him over Merriman, who is great in a 3-4, but no sure thing in a 4-3.

 

39th pick - Michael Roos - Starting LT for Tenn. Sorry Bradley fans.

 

42nd pick - Frank Gore - Hurts to pass on Tatupu, as I really like him, but we have taken our LB and have other needs. Frank Gore is instant impact.

 

106th pick - No 3rd rounder that year. W/ Gore already on board, we shock everyone by taking Marion Barber. The 1-2 punch of Gore/Barber is what many felt TJ/Benson could have been. Only superior. RB was a position we wanted to upgrade (hence the Benson pick) and we do that in spades w/ Gore and Barber.

 

140th pick - Chris Kemoeatu - Solid Guard who would look pretty good right now.

 

181st pick - Derrick Anderson - Maybe it was a fluke, but give me Anderson in the 6th over Orton in the 4th.

 

220th pick - Jay Ratliff - Solid DT. This 7th rounder has done more than our 3rd round pick from that same draft.

 

Yea, I like that draft.

 

At RB, I do not get Benson, but instead add Gore and Barber. No Derrick Johnson, but Ware is simply a FAR better SLB. I add a solid T, G and DT to shore up the trenches, and add a QB to develop.

[barnesat]

I see both sides of the coin on this one, but I look at which one will help more both long term and short term. Short term for me is next season.

 

First choice we get Mendenhall and he can't do much at all next year behind the current and possible line without a first round line pick. Orton and Grossman look bad, and we also then have a hard time determining which WR's are a bust. Neither of which can afford to have a terrible looking year or they will be gone, despite the fact that I think there is talent there we have yet to see. Next year we still need line then, and we also need wideouts and a new QB. As part of the long term on this one we would be a couple years back before we could truly see how good Mendenhall is and by then we may have wasted some of his younger years, and we all know how valuable years are when talking about a running back.

 

The Second choice is to go OL even at a slight reach at 14. We do that and then the QB has some time to throw, which drastically increases the production of Orton or Rex. We decide which one we like or can have cheap for a few years, and next year that is not a pressing need but one we can develop from next years draft or late rounds this year. Benson, Wolfe, or AP all look decent this year, and we can look for a stud next year. Long term, this helps build a stud young line that we can work more towards in future years and all the other positions benefit.

 

I really like Mendenhall, and was excited when he was talked about as a late first round early second, but now I just don't feel as though he is the right choice. I think both short and long term we would be helped at more positions as would the overall sucess of the offense by going OL even at a stretch. Worst case, the lineman we get never pans out to be a stud, but the question is will he be worse than what we have now? I don't think so, and I think the positives of a OL are far greater than the positives of Mendenhall who I really like. We can always take a chance on Forte who could look like a stud this year if our line pick pans out. Just my two cents.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Just a correction- it's Troy WILLIAMSON, not WILLIAMS.

[BearSox]

never mind this post...

[BearSox]

I think I do recall you mentioning you wanted D Johnson as well! I apologize for not recalling that! (Too many Old Styles...) I can see your thinking that he may not have excelled as much here than KC...but I just have to think that talent would over-rule the position and he would be better than Hunter (as much as I like Hunter). He would probably be one of these unsung guys in the league... Those in the know would say he makes a difference, but there aren't stats for what he'd do. I guess it's moot regardless! But, I really think we'd have been better off in the long run. Odss are TJ would still be here doing a decent job and the D would be slightly better as well... Just a Madden-esque fantization!

 

 

One. You say you think DJ would have done well enough, stating that you believe "talent would over-rule the position". My case in point to counter would be to remind you Urlacher started out at SLB, and looked freaking awful. He was constantly tied up by blockers and unable to be the play maker he is today. Urlacher is one of the best LBs in the league, but in the wrong position, not only would have missed out on all the pro bowls, but may not have even been a starter. He looked that bad at SLB.

 

Does that mean DJ would have looked equally as bad? Not sure, but I tend to think maybe. If DJ were slotted at SLB in a system that better utilizes the position, it may have been different, which is what I wanted. But in our system, where the SLB spends his day taking on blockers and paving the way for Urlacher, not to mention sitting down on many 3rd downs and nickel situations, I simply tend to think DJ would have been declared a major bust for us.

 

Hind sight 20/20, if we wanted a SLB, Ware or Merriman would have likely been the better choice over DJ. The only way DJ would have made sense is if we would have moved Briggs to SLB, but Briggs has set a pretty high bar that DJ would have had to equal to make that a better choice.

 

Ironically, that top 10 that year pretty much sucked.

 

1 - Alex Smith - After three years, SF has no idea if they have a QB, but the thought is no.

2 - Ronnie Brown - Personally, I think he has been great, but on a horrible offense and suffered injuries to make matters worse.

3 - Braylon Edwards - Stud. Loved him on my FF team. He is an exception, not the rule, in this group though.

4 - Benson

5 - Caddilac - Looked like a stud early, and now looks like a dud.

6 - Pac Man - Not only a bust, but an embarassment

7 - Troy Williams - Bust

8 - Antrel Rolle - I think he is okay, but has not developed into the DB expected. Not even close.

9 - Carlos Rogers - I know little about him, which to me implies he has not lived up to his billing.

10 - Mike Williams - Bust on a level that makes Benson look like a stud.

 

Besides Edwards, this is a really ugly group. Ironically, the next 10 looked far better w/: Ware, Merriman, Brown (starting OL), Derrick Johnson, and a few other good, but not great starters. Not a good year to have a top 10 pick.

 

2. You say two things I tend to believe conflict each other. First, you state that TJ was a good (not great) RB who performed well when our OL performed well. Later, you say that if we didn't draft Benson, TJ would still be here doing a decent job. Really? I am not sure NYJ's OL was any worse than ours, and would probably argue it was better, and TJ stunk for them. If you believe so goes the OL, so goes TJ, what makes you think he would have done even "decent" behind last years OL.

 

You continue to state that if we didn't draft Benson (implying we took DJ) our defense would be better. I question this too. DJ is simply not a SLB. He is a LB who's game is based off speed, suited for WLB, and who IMHO, would be eaten up at SLB. In fact, I would argue Hunter would be an upgrade at SLB to DJ.

 

3. You want Madden-esq fantasy. How about this. Instead of taking Benson, we trade down w/ Dallas for their 11th and 2nd rounder (42nd pick) which would be solid value per the chart. We draft the following:

 

11th - DeMarcus Ware - Excellent SLB who plays the run, is pretty good in coverage and can really get after the QB (33.5 sacks in his 3 seasons). I take him over Merriman, who is great in a 3-4, but no sure thing in a 4-3.

 

39th pick - Michael Roos - Starting LT for Tenn. Sorry Bradley fans.

 

42nd pick - Frank Gore - Hurts to pass on Tatupu, as I really like him, but we have taken our LB and have other needs. Frank Gore is instant impact.

 

106th pick - No 3rd rounder that year. W/ Gore already on board, we shock everyone by taking Marion Barber. The 1-2 punch of Gore/Barber is what many felt TJ/Benson could have been. Only superior. RB was a position we wanted to upgrade (hence the Benson pick) and we do that in spades w/ Gore and Barber.

 

140th pick - Chris Kemoeatu - Solid Guard who would look pretty good right now.

 

181st pick - Derrick Anderson - Maybe it was a fluke, but give me Anderson in the 6th over Orton in the 4th.

 

220th pick - Jay Ratliff - Solid DT. This 7th rounder has done more than our 3rd round pick from that same draft.

 

Yea, I like that draft.

 

At RB, I do not get Benson, but instead add Gore and Barber. No Derrick Johnson, but Ware is simply a FAR better SLB. I add a solid T, G and DT to shore up the trenches, and add a QB to develop.

I think Ware and especially Merriman would be DE's in our system. Ware, could probably play SAM in our system.

[madlithuanian]

1. I suppose my thought on DJ are that I thought he could be moulded to what we needed... Obviously, that may not have been sound thinking given what we already know has transpired...and that guys like Merriman and Ware as you stated would have been the "fantasty pick" per se. (Which, by the way, I love your fantasy draft!)

 

I did conveniently forget about Urlacher's short stint outside of MLB...but I think that stems from my overall dislike of that era's coaches for us!

 

Yeah, that draft class really has left much to be desired other than Edwards.

 

2. I don't think I'm really comfilcting anything regarding Jones. I do think he was just good, but I also think he's far better than Benson. That's whay I thought we'd have been better. Also, odd things do tend to happen in team dynamics when players switch teams. Sometimes it's good... Jones to CHI, sometimes it's not so good, Jones to TB/NYJ.... The planets can align oddly, even with what one would think would be comparable situations. I just think given Jones' success here, the overall love the players had for him, he would have continued to do well. But, only a gut feeling is telling me that. Nothing concrete per se.

 

3. I'm ready to re-set my Madden based on your fantasy draft!

 

 

 

I think I do recall you mentioning you wanted D Johnson as well! I apologize for not recalling that! (Too many Old Styles...) I can see your thinking that he may not have excelled as much here than KC...but I just have to think that talent would over-rule the position and he would be better than Hunter (as much as I like Hunter). He would probably be one of these unsung guys in the league... Those in the know would say he makes a difference, but there aren't stats for what he'd do. I guess it's moot regardless! But, I really think we'd have been better off in the long run. Odss are TJ would still be here doing a decent job and the D would be slightly better as well... Just a Madden-esque fantization!

One. You say you think DJ would have done well enough, stating that you believe "talent would over-rule the position". My case in point to counter would be to remind you Urlacher started out at SLB, and looked freaking awful. He was constantly tied up by blockers and unable to be the play maker he is today. Urlacher is one of the best LBs in the league, but in the wrong position, not only would have missed out on all the pro bowls, but may not have even been a starter. He looked that bad at SLB.

 

Does that mean DJ would have looked equally as bad? Not sure, but I tend to think maybe. If DJ were slotted at SLB in a system that better utilizes the position, it may have been different, which is what I wanted. But in our system, where the SLB spends his day taking on blockers and paving the way for Urlacher, not to mention sitting down on many 3rd downs and nickel situations, I simply tend to think DJ would have been declared a major bust for us.

 

Hind sight 20/20, if we wanted a SLB, Ware or Merriman would have likely been the better choice over DJ. The only way DJ would have made sense is if we would have moved Briggs to SLB, but Briggs has set a pretty high bar that DJ would have had to equal to make that a better choice.

 

Ironically, that top 10 that year pretty much sucked.

 

1 - Alex Smith - After three years, SF has no idea if they have a QB, but the thought is no.

2 - Ronnie Brown - Personally, I think he has been great, but on a horrible offense and suffered injuries to make matters worse.

3 - Braylon Edwards - Stud. Loved him on my FF team. He is an exception, not the rule, in this group though.

4 - Benson

5 - Caddilac - Looked like a stud early, and now looks like a dud.

6 - Pac Man - Not only a bust, but an embarassment

7 - Troy Williams - Bust

8 - Antrel Rolle - I think he is okay, but has not developed into the DB expected. Not even close.

9 - Carlos Rogers - I know little about him, which to me implies he has not lived up to his billing.

10 - Mike Williams - Bust on a level that makes Benson look like a stud.

 

Besides Edwards, this is a really ugly group. Ironically, the next 10 looked far better w/: Ware, Merriman, Brown (starting OL), Derrick Johnson, and a few other good, but not great starters. Not a good year to have a top 10 pick.

 

2. You say two things I tend to believe conflict each other. First, you state that TJ was a good (not great) RB who performed well when our OL performed well. Later, you say that if we didn't draft Benson, TJ would still be here doing a decent job. Really? I am not sure NYJ's OL was any worse than ours, and would probably argue it was better, and TJ stunk for them. If you believe so goes the OL, so goes TJ, what makes you think he would have done even "decent" behind last years OL.

 

You continue to state that if we didn't draft Benson (implying we took DJ) our defense would be better. I question this too. DJ is simply not a SLB. He is a LB who's game is based off speed, suited for WLB, and who IMHO, would be eaten up at SLB. In fact, I would argue Hunter would be an upgrade at SLB to DJ.

 

3. You want Madden-esq fantasy. How about this. Instead of taking Benson, we trade down w/ Dallas for their 11th and 2nd rounder (42nd pick) which would be solid value per the chart. We draft the following:

 

11th - DeMarcus Ware - Excellent SLB who plays the run, is pretty good in coverage and can really get after the QB (33.5 sacks in his 3 seasons). I take him over Merriman, who is great in a 3-4, but no sure thing in a 4-3.

 

39th pick - Michael Roos - Starting LT for Tenn. Sorry Bradley fans.

 

42nd pick - Frank Gore - Hurts to pass on Tatupu, as I really like him, but we have taken our LB and have other needs. Frank Gore is instant impact.

 

106th pick - No 3rd rounder that year. W/ Gore already on board, we shock everyone by taking Marion Barber. The 1-2 punch of Gore/Barber is what many felt TJ/Benson could have been. Only superior. RB was a position we wanted to upgrade (hence the Benson pick) and we do that in spades w/ Gore and Barber.

 

140th pick - Chris Kemoeatu - Solid Guard who would look pretty good right now.

 

181st pick - Derrick Anderson - Maybe it was a fluke, but give me Anderson in the 6th over Orton in the 4th.

 

220th pick - Jay Ratliff - Solid DT. This 7th rounder has done more than our 3rd round pick from that same draft.

 

Yea, I like that draft.

 

At RB, I do not get Benson, but instead add Gore and Barber. No Derrick Johnson, but Ware is simply a FAR better SLB. I add a solid T, G and DT to shore up the trenches, and add a QB to develop.

[madlithuanian]

No worries!

 

never mind this post...

[DrunkBomber]

Lets not forget that Mike Williams would have been an even bigger bust. Bottom line is, the guy the Bears picked is a bust and I'd be surprised if he's anything but that.

I agree that Williams would have been a bigger bust but he more than likely would have been gone before last year and we wouldnt be financially committed to him the same way you are with a running back.

[BearFan2000]

At this point it's hard for me to pick a side on which I'd rather be. Picking Mendenhall at 14 or grabbing an OL.

 

I'm of the belief also that everything starts in the trenches. If your line is horrible every other problem on offense is either created by or magnified by it. It's tough to be RB and expect to be successful when often your first contact is in the backfield. For QB you can't have a lot of confidence to drop back and start your progressions when you often don't have the time to do so. When the QB is rushed the Receivers don't have the time to run their routes and get open before the QB is under duress. The offensive line makes an impact on every phase of the offensive game so it starts at the line. While a good OL doesn't guarantee success (see Atlanta) it does give you the best chance of success.

 

With that in mind I'm tempted to think about drafting OL even if a guy like Mendenhall drops to 14. Which I don't think is a bad idea. The thing with drafting offensive line especially at 14 is you are counting on this guy to step right in or soon take over as a starter. Rookies can take some time to develop even the good ones. Sure there are those over the years who have just stepped right in and played. It can be a little convenient to think that we draft OL at 14 and maybe pick up another lineman or two later. That suddenly our Line will be fixed. Good offensive lines take time to gel. Even when you add free agents. The more the line plays together the stronger they will get. In no way am I saying it's a bad idea to look to shore up the drive by drafting OL at 14. I think we need to be realistic. It won't instantly solve the issues. But its a good long term need since our line is getting old fast. It's also possible that the line gels during the season and we're able to keep the ship afloat long enough for that to happen and make some noise this coming season. If we admit this is a rebuilding year then I think we need to focus on getting our line younger. We will need to do this at some point. This draft would be a good one to accomplish that and also add some RB talent.

 

At the same time we have a running back Line up of Benson (rehabbing), AP, and Wolfe. One big back, one small, back and one tiny back. I was never on board with Benson when we drafted him, the hold out didn't endear him to me either. He showed little promise. The Super Bowl team had a solid line and Jones, Benson, and AP all had success behind that group. Last year I could say that none of our backs did much to write home about. For AP I think it was the worst he's looked as a Bear. Of the current group he's been here the longest so in some respect he's the best measuring stick for the running game. You could always count on AP to be plugged in for a game or two and have solid performances. Last year he had a hard time doing anything. I'm not saying AP is a great back or a true #1 guy but his struggling this season tells me it's not just the backs. That said I've been more often unimpressed with Benson than I have been impressed with him. Every once in a while he does something nice but for every decent run there's a dozen or more cloud of dust and a 1 yard gain. Benson looked as good as he ever did during that super bowl run. Which tells me if he's motivated he has the tools to be a decent back but I just don't think he has the desire and inner drive needed to find any consistent success in the NFL After three seasons his pass blocking is still suspect. Wolfe is more a situational back. So looking at our line up I would not be opposed to upgrading the RB position at 14 either if you can get a good value at RB without reaching.

 

The way this draft looks it's going to depend on who's there at 14 when we pick. If one of the top tier linemen drops to 14 it would be awful hard to pass up considering our blatant need in that area. At the same time I don't want to reach for an OL at 14 when you can draft a similar guy later in the draft. If we get to 14 and we'd be reaching on an offensive lineman and Mendenhall is there. I think it would be awful tough not to take him and then pick a more value OL later. If we get to 14 and both a top tier OL and Mendenhall are there, that would be a difficult choice. There are quality backs that will be available later in the draft. There are also good options later in the draft for OL. Unless we do something crazy at 14 I'll be able to live with which ever way Angelo goes.

 

Whether we want to officially call next year a rebuilding year or not that is what it will be. The two quarterbacks on our roster at the moment are on 1 year deals. It's quite likely we will draft a QB and ironically he'll have longer term deal than our starter. WRs.... what wide receivers. Yes we picked up Booker and I've always liked him. He is getting older and I see him in the role that we brought Moose in to play the veteran mentor. We have Bradley who is often injured, we have Davis who's nothing special, we have Hester the wannabe WR, Hass, Lloyd, and Rideau. The only proven starter is Booker. At TE we have Clark, Olsen, and Fontel. At OL we'll have a patchwork line of some sort. Realistically the offense is in full rebuilding mode and the Defense has it's own needs but not as many as the offense. I honestly don't know what to expect this coming season. I would not be at all surprised to see another up and down season. But it's also possible we may hang in there and things will come together over the course of the year and we make the playoffs. I'm preparing myself for a down year but however we go in the draft and other roster moves between now and the start of the season. Most likely these moves will be more for long term solutions. A high drafted RB may not see the field much early on as I'm sure Benson will be given every opportunity to succeed before we hand the reigns over to a Rookie.

[BearSox]

No worries!

I wish there was a delete post button here... oh well.

[jason]

Lets not forget that Mike Williams would have been an even bigger bust. Bottom line is, the guy the Bears picked is a bust and I'd be surprised if he's anything but that.

 

I disagree with the entire line of "would have" reasoning.

 

If Mike Williams were drafted by the Bears, he very well could have become a very good WR. At the time, he would have automatically become the best WR on the team, as well as the #1 endzone threat.

 

If Cedric Benson were drafted by the Seahawks and Alexander was shipped out in a trade, you don't think he would have done well behind that beast of a line? You don't think his career would have been completely different at this point?

 

Situations make players. Situations change their point of view, their attitude, everything. When players go to a situation that fits them better, they react better, they try harder, they work more, they feel like they can achieve more. I'm convinced that Emmitt Smith would have been merely average if not put behind the best OL ever, and if Barry Sanders had been put behind the Dallas OL he would have nearly 25K, and be considered the best ever without a doubt.

 

Situations.

 

Get two guys like Mike Williams and Cedric Benson, and all it takes is one or two years in a not-so-perfect situation, and you have a recipe for a bust.

[nfoligno]

I understand what you are saying, and have said as much myself. At the same time, I believe there comes a point when you have to simply say a player is not an NFL, especially when they get multiple chances w/ multiple teams.

 

For example, Thomas Jones was drafted by AZ, and looked like a bust. TB picked him up, and while he showed a little something at the end, he was never great for them. We get him, and he is just below pro bowl. TJ is a player I absolutely would agree w/ your theory. But what about Cade McNown. I think he would agree he was an absolute bust for us. Would it be your argument that if a different team drafted him, Cade McNown would have been great, or even good? Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Couch, etc. Is it your argument these players would have been good if drafted by a different team?

 

Sometimes I would agree w/ your theory. Othertimes, I think a bust is a bust, and it really matters little where that player is drafted.

 

Williams was drafted by Det, who you will rip, but Roy Williams didn't seem to have a problem developing. In fact, several other WRs have put up big numbers under that system. Mike Williams didn't, not because of the system, but because he showed up to camp fat and out of shape. Per all sources, his attitude was as bad as Benson's, or worse. He has been given additional chances w/ Oakland (where I have seen more than one WR put up considerable numbers) and Tenn (where freaking Justin Gage was able to perform).

 

We all know Williams was your boy in the draft. But sometimes you just have to let it go. Mike Williams had as many questions coming out of college as Benson, and many/most of those questions have proven just as true.

 

Final point. In the argument that it often depends on who a player is drafted by, I question why you think we would have been a good destination. Not like we had a QB to throw to him.