dawhizz Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I GMed the NFLfans Mock Draft this past weekend for the Bears over on www.nflfans.com, so I thought I'd let people know how things went (spoiler alert: BEST DRAFT EVER!). Ok, not really. But considering the holes the Bears have and the guys I got, I think this would really help the talent base on the team in some key places and hopefully put the Bears in position to get back to the top of the division where they belong. The breakdown (with video highlights when I could find them): 1) Branden Albert, OT/OG, Virginia - I was planning to go OL in the first and had my choice of Albert, Williams, and Otah. For me, the decision was between Williams and Albert. I took Albert because while Williams MAY be the better LT right now (and recent workouts suggest the difference is closer than you might think), Albert is a better everything else. With a line that underachieved and lost two starters, Albert is a sure-fire starter right away SOMEWHERE, whether it be guard or either tackle position, and can hopefully take over for Tait at LT by next year. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7L1h1uZfk4M 2) Early Doucet, WR, LSU - The one pick that I had hardly even considered before I picked him. I was pretty much set on going WR in the second, but I never considered that Doucet would be the one available. Another poster a good point that Earl Bennett may be a better fit in the offense, particularly when Doucet's propensity for injury paralells Bradley's. Still, Doucet has the bigger upside and is more athletic than Bennett, and is likely the better deep threat on a team that doesn't really have one at the moment. http://youtube.com/watch?v=DBkslmBHx-s http://youtube.com/watch?v=hv-t9WiZzdY 3a) Chad Henne, QB, Michigan - I didn't come into the draft with QB as a huge need. I was basically planning to get a developmental guy in the 5th-6th round (Kevin O'Connell or Bernard Morris or Dennis Dixon). Nevertheless, I had a second round grade on Henne, and the QB position is hardly settled in Chicago. I strongly considered Josh Johnson here (who I like a lot), and if I had it to do over again, I might have waited, as Johnson didn't go until the 4th round. But Henne is much more ready to play than Johnson, and with an unsettled QB position, it's not at all unthinkable that a 4-year starter at a big-time program like Henne could start for this team next year. He may duplicate some of Rex's strengths, but at least he doesn't appear to duplicate his weaknesses. 3b) Jamaal Charles, RB, Texas - A pick I was originally lukewarm on (I probably would have taken Choice over him) I have subsequently decided was not just a right selection, but maybe even a necessary selection. If Charles soft? Maybe. Do I love drafting another Texas back? Not really. But what Charles has is speed, and that's something I feel comfortable saying I have never seen from a Bears RB. Think about it. Can you name a Bears RB, starter or backup, who could run a sub-4.4 40? I feel like I have to go all the way back to Gale Sayers (who worked out OK). In this day and age, that's a ridiculous. We tried bruising backs (Curtis Enis, Cedric Benson). We've tried shifty backs (Thomas Jones, James Allen). We've passed over speed backs (Rashaan Salaam over Napolean Kaufman). It's time to get with the times and get some real, NFL speed in the backfield. Accordingly, I've gone from a Charles skeptic to really hoping he goes to the Bears, especially if it's this late. 4) Jeremy Zuttah, G/T/C, Rutgers - The offensive makeover continues, as I intend to give that unit the protection and the playmakers to succeed next year. Zuttah is versatile enough to play guard, RT, and even center (where we're going to need a replacement for Kreutz before long). He showed enought althleticism in workouts to suggest he would best fit as a guard at the moment, but I'll take his help anywhere he can give it. With Zuttah, Albert, and Beekman from last year, the Bears are situated nicely along the offensive line going forward. And he catches passes... 5) Craig Steltz, S, LSU - First defensive player I took is a big-time steal for the Bears. I actually took Steltz in the 3rd round in the other mock I did. This safety class isn't great, so I was fully prepared to go with one of my sleeper safeties at the end of the draft (Pig Brown from Missouri or Haruki Nakamura from Cincinnati). Steltz has a lot of Mike Brown qualities in that he's a smart, hard-hitting safety, with zone experience, and adds size the Bears don't really have at safety and should at the very least excel on special teams. Between Steltz, Brown, Manning, Payne, and McGowan, we should have two heathy, decent safeties. Worst case scenario is Todd Johnson, which I'm fine with in a 5th round pick. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6WKU97E2M28 6) Jerome Felton, FB, Furman - Back to offense with this pick. McKie certainly seems like a decent FB, but he's not good enough that he can't be upgraded. With J.D. Runnels' situation in limbo (I can't even tell if he's officially still on the roster), Felton should at least be able to take Polite's place on the practice squad until he develops a little bit. He's got the size and willingness to block to be a great lead blocker, but with the running instincts and running power to be a factor running the ball (in fact several profiles compare him to Jerome Bettis). Check out his blocking and running style below, which suggests he might even have special teams potential: 7a) Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky - I wanted to get another WR in the draft that I felt like you could send down the field and would go up and get a jump ball. Johnson came out of nowhere to lead the SEC in TD receptions and turned in a number of clutch catches for Kentucky this year (including the game winning TD catches against Louisville and LSU).He also seemed to step it up against top competition, with over 100 yards against Arkansas, LSU, Florida, and the bowl game against Florida State. He's pretty raw in routes, but he has good height, decent speed, and looks really strong catching the ball. His freestyle rapping is just the icing on the cake. http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys...ve-johnson---wr 7b) Barry Booker, DT, Virginia Tech - I love our DTs when they are all healthy. But we have yet to see Dusty Dvoracek play a meaningful game, and Harris hasn't exactly been the picture of health, so bringing in another body to put in the rotation seems like a pretty good idea to me. Booker fits the undersized, attacking style of the Bears' defense with 10.5 tackles for a loss and 4 sacks last year. He might not make the team ahead of a guy like Matt Toeaina, who flashed some ability at the end of last season, but he's a smart DT who could step off the practice squad and do a nice job. 7c) Joe Jon Finley, TE, Oklahoma - Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark are a great set of receiveing TEs, but the Bears lost their 3rd TE/blocking specialist when John Gilmore left. Finley is one of the few TEs in this draft who seems to relish and excel at blocking defensive ends and while he's not very fast, he is a big target that can make some red-zone catches just like Gilmore did. Plus, it's not a Bears draft recently without an Oklahoma pick. 7d) Reggie Corner, CB, Akron - The Bears are set at CB for the foreseeable future, with Tillman and Vasher locked up long term and McBride doing very well in limited action. Beyond that, Ricky Manning, Jr. has been increasingly inconsistent and Corey Graham hasn't seen much game experience at corner, so another undersized, ball-hawking corner (pun only slightly intended) would be a wise investment. Corner had 7 ints and 19 passes defended last year and is a pure cover-2 corner with good short-area speed, who could be a good enough fit in the defense to justify cutting Manning loose if he can impress. I'd like to hear what you think of my selections, so do your worst. And here's the whole draft, if you're interested in who was available where. I tried to cut and paste the list, but the numbers didn't translate, so you're just going to have to figure out the numbers, cause I'm sure not adding them all : Round 1 Player Selected Kansas City (From Miami-Mock Draft Trade) -Jake Long/ OT / Michigan St. Louis -Chris Long / DE / Virginia Atlanta -Glenn Dorsey / DT / LSU Oakland -Vernon Gholston / DE / Ohio St. Miami (from KC - Mock Draft Trade) -Ryan Clady / OT / Boise St NY Jets -Darren McFadden / RB / Arkansas New England (From SF - Joe Staley) -Keith Rivers / OLB / USC Baltimore -Matt Ryan / QB / Boston College Cincinnati -Sedrick Ellis / DT / USC New Orleans -Dom Rodgers-Cromartie / CB / Tenn St Buffalo -Leodis McKelvin / CB / Troy Denver -DeSean Jackson / WR / Cal Carolina -Derrick Harvey / DE / Florida Chicago -Branden Albert / OL / Auburn Detroit -Chris Williams / LT / Vanderbilt Arizona -Mike Jenkins / CB / USF Minnesota -Phillip Merling / DE / Clemson Houston -Rashard Mendenhall / RB / Illinois Tennesee (trade Phi) -Devin Thomas / WR / Michigan St. Tampa Bay -Malcolm Kelly / WR / Oklahoma Washington -Aqib Talib / CB / Kansas Dallas (from Cleve - Brady Quinn) -Jonathan Stewart / RB / Oregon Pittsburgh -James Hardy / WR / Indiana Philadelphia (trade Ten) -Kenny Phillips / S / Miami Seattle -Jeff Otah / OT / Pittsburgh Jacksonville -Kentwan Balmer / DT / UNC San Diego -Antoine Cason / CB / Arizona Dallas -Reggie Smith / CB / Oklahoma San Francisco (From Indy - Tony Ugoh) -Gosder Cherilus / RT / Boston College Green Bay -Tracy Porter / CB / Indiana *Forfeit (By NE - Spygate) NY Giants -Jarod Mayo / LB / Tenn Round 2 Miami -Dan Connor / MLB / Penn St. St. Louis -Sam Baker / OT / USC Atlanta (from Oak - DeAngelo Hall) -Brian Brohm / QB / Louisville Kansas City -Trevor Laws / DT / Notre Dame NY Jets -Curtis Lofton / ILB / Oklahoma Atlanta -Carl Nicks / OT / Nebraska Baltimore -Felix Jones / RB / Arkansas Denver (trade w/ SF) -Pat Sims / DT / Auburn New Orleans -Fred Davis / TE / USC Buffalo -Limas Sweed / WR / Texas San Francisco (trade w/ Den) -Dre Moore / DT / Maryland Carolina -Anthony Collins / OT / Kansas Chicago -Early Doucet / WR / LSU Detroit -Lawrence Jackson / DE / USC Cincinnati -Martellus Bennett / TE / Tex A&M Minnesota -Quentin Groves / DE / Auburn Atlanta (From Houston - Matt Schaub) -Cliff Avril / DE-OLB / Purdue Miami (From Philly Mock Trade) -Shawn Crable / DE-OLB / Michigan Arizona -Erin Henderson / LB / Maryland Washington -Calais Campbell / DE / Miami Tampa Bay -Earl Bennett / WR / Vanderbilt Pittsburgh -Justin King / CB / Penn St. Tennesee -Chris Johnson / RB / East Carolina Seattle -Jordy Nelson / WR / Kansas St. Green Bay (From Cleveland - Corey Williams) -John Carlson / TE / Notre Dame Miami (From SD - Chris Chambers) -Chilo Rachal / G / USC Jacksonville -Jonathan Goff / LB / Vanderbilt Indianapolis -Matt Forte / RB / Tulane Green Bay -Joe Flacco / QB / Delaware Dallas -Patrick Lee / CB / Auburn New England -Brandon Flowers / CB / Virginia Tech NY Giants -DaJuan Morgan / S / NC St. Round 3 Philadelphia (From Miami- Mock Trade) -Chris Ellis / DE / Virginia Tech St. Louis -Roy Scheuning / OG / Oregon State Miami (From KC - Mock Trade) -Charles Godfrey / CB / Iowa Carolina (From NYJ - Kris Jenkins) -Quintin Demps / FS / UTEP Atlanta -Dustin Keller / TE / Purdue New England (From Oakland - M Henderson) - Kendall Langford / DTDE / Hampton Chicago (From SF - Briggsgate) - Chad Henne / QB / Michigan Jacksonville (From Buffalo - Stroud) - Darrell Roberson / DE / Georgia Tech Buffalo (From Baltimore - McGahee) -Mike Pollak / OC,OG / Arizona St Minnesota (From Denver - M Thomas) -Mario Manningham / WR / Michigan Carolina -Kevin Smith / RB / East Carolina San Francisco (From Chicago - Briggsgate) -Donnie Avery / WR / Houston Detroit -Chevis Jackson / CB / LSU Cincinnati -Tavares Gooden / ILB / Miami New Orleans -Ahtyba Rubin / NT / Iowa St Houston -Terrell Thomas / CB / USC Philadelphia -Eddie Royal / WR / Virginia Tech Arizona -Ray Rice / RB / Rutgers Minnesota -Oniel Cousins / OT / UTEP Tampa Bay -Red Bryant / NT / Texas A&M Washington -Andre Caldwell / WR / Florida Philadelphia(From Tenn - Mock Trade) -Duane Brown / OT / Virginia Tech Seattle -Brad Cottam / TE / Tennessee Detroit (From Cleveland - Shaun Rogers) -Tashard Choice / RB / Georgia Tech Pittsburgh -John Greco / OG,OT / Toledo Jacksonville -Tyrell Johnson / SS/ Arkansas State Chicago (from SD - Weddle) -Jamaal Charles / RB / Texas Green Bay -Marcus Harrison / DT / Arkansas Dallas -DeMario Pressley / DT / NC State Indianapolis -Marcus Howard / OLB / Georgia New England -Ezra Butler / DEOLB / Nevada New York Giants -Antwaun Molden / CB / E Kentucky Washington (Comp Pick) -Josh Barrett / SS / Arizona St Cincinnati (Comp pick) -Lavelle Hawkins / WR / Cal Atlanta (Comp pick) -Trae Williams / CB / S Florida Baltimore (Comp Pick) -Tyvon Branch / CB / Connectict Round 4 Philadelphia (from Miami - Mock Trade) -Thomas DeCoud / FS / Cal St. Louis -Andre Woodson / QB / Kentucky NY Jets -Bruce Davis / DEOLB / UCLA Atlanta -Philip Wheeler / ILB / Georgia Tech Oakland -Harry Douglas / WR / Louisville Kansas City -Tony Hills / OT / Texas Baltimore -Xavier Adibi / OLB / Baltimore San Francisco -*Honorary Pick*/Heath Benedict/OG,OT/Newberry -Mike McGlynn / OC,OG,OT / Pittsburgh Denver -Terrence Wheatley / CB / Denver Carolina -Andre Fluellen / DT / Florida St. Chicago -Jeremy Zuttah / OC,OG,OT / Rutgers Detriot -Ali Highsmith / OLB / LSU Cincinnati -Steve Slayton / RB / West Virginia NY Jets (From New Orleans - Jonathan Vilma) -Martin Rucker / TE / Missouri Buffalo -Owen Schmitt / FB / West Virginia Philadelphia -Orlando Scandrick / CB / Boise State Arizona -Josh Johnson / QB / San Diego Minnesota -J D Booty / QB / USC Houston -Kirk Barton / OT / Ohio St. Denver (From Washington - Lelie) -Mike Hart / RB / Michigan Tampa Bay -Wesley Woodyard / OLB / Kentucky Seattle -Frank Okam / DT / Texas Cleveland -Beau Bell / ILB / UNLV Pittsburgh -Jason Jones / DEOLB / E Michigan Tennesee -Jeremy Thompson / DEOLB / Wake Forest *Forfeit (By SD - Paul Oliver) Jacksonville -Erik Ainge / QB / Tennessee Dallas -Dexter Jackson / WR,KR / Appalachian St Indianapolis -Jordan Dizon / OLB / Colorado Green Bay -Peyton Hillis / FB / Arkansas New England -Tom Zbikowski / SS / Notre Dame NY Giants -Jerome Simpson / WR / Coastal Carolina Phildelphia - Comp Pick -Stanford Keglar / OLB / Purdue Buffalo - Comp Pick -Kellen Davis / TE / Michigan St Baltimore -Brandon Kieth / OT / N Iowa Tennessee - Comp Pick -Drew Radovich / OG,OT / USC Green Bay - Comp Pick -Donald Thomas / OG/ Connecticut Round 5 Kansas City (From Miami-Trent Green) -Craig Stevens / TE / Cal St. Louis -Letroy Guion / DT / Florida St Atlanta -Steve Justice / OC / Wake Forest Denver (From Oakland -Gerard Warren) -Vince Hall / ILB / Virginia Tech Miami (From KC - Mock Trade) -Chris Horton / SS / UCLA Carolina (From NYJ - Kris Jenkins -Geno Hayes / OLB,ILB/ Florida St *Forfeit (SF - Briggsgate) *Forfeit (Baltimore - Jared Gaither) Chicago (From Carolina - Chris Harris) -Craig Steltz / SS / LSU Jacksonville (From Chicago (D Walker) thru Buffalo - M Stroud) -Eric Young / OG / Tennessee Detroit -Ken Iwebema / DE / Iowa Cincinnati -Robert Felton / OG / Arkansas New Orleans -Will Franklin / WR / Missouri Buffalo -Gary Guyton / OLB / Georgia Tech San Francsco (From Denver - Mock Trade) -Trevor Scott / DEOLB / Buffalo Arizona -Breno Giacomini / OT / Louisville Minnesota -Jamar Adams / SS / Michigan Houston -Michael Grant / FS,CB / Arkansas Philadelphia -Marcus Monk / WR / Arkansa Tampa Bay -Dwight Lowery / CB / San Jose St Washington -Dennis Dixon / QB / Oregon Cleveland -Jack Williams / CB / Kent State Pittsburgh -Chad Rinehart / OG,OT / N Iowa Tennessee -Darnell Terrell / CB / Missouri Jacksonville (From Seattle - A Pearman) -Keenan Burton / WR / Kentucky Jacksonville -Bryan Kehl / OLB / BYU San Diego -Justin Forsett / RB / Cal Indianapolis -Anthony Aldridge / RB,WR / Houston Green Bay -Marcus Griffin / FS / Texas Dallas -Barry Richardson / OT / Texas New England -D. J. Hall / WR / Alabama NY Giants -John Sullivan / OC / Notre Dame San Diego - Comp Pick -Carlton Powell / DT / Virginia Tech Round 6 Dallas (From Miami - Jason Fergason) -Kevin O'Connell / QB / San Diego St St. Louis -Kory Lichtensteiger / OC / Bowling Green Oakland -Alvin Bowen / OLB / Iowa St Kansas City -Jacob Hester / RB,FB / LSU NY Jets -Chase Ortiz / DEOLB / TCU Atlanta -Chris Harrington / DEOLB / Texas A&M Baltimore -Jack Ikegwuono / CB / Wisconsin San Francisco -Brandon Carr / CB / Grand Valley St Chicago -Jerome Felton / FB / Furman Detroit -Nick Hayden / DT / Wisconsin Cincinnati -Paul Hubbard / WR / Wisconsin New Orleans -Curtis Gatewood / OLB / Vanderbilt Buffalo -D. J. Wolfe / SS / Oklahoma St. Louis (From Denver - Jimmy Kennedy -Kielen Dykes / DT / St. Louis Carolina -DeJuan Tribble / CB / Boston College Minnesota -Jermichael Finley / TE / Texas Denver (From Houston - Chris Myers) -Mike Gibson / OT,OG / Cal Philadelphia -Brian Johnston / DE / Gardner-Webb Arizona -Dorian Bryant / Purdue / WR Washington -Andrew Crummey / OG / Maryland Miami (From TB R. Sims through KC - Mock Trade) -Darius Reynaud / WR, RB / West Virginia Pittsburgh -Kevin Robinson / WR,KR / Utah State Seattle (From Tennessee - Bryce Fisher) -Geoff Schwartz / OT / Oregon Cleveland (From Seattle - Charlie Frye) -Tommy Blake / DEOLB / TCU Philadelphia (From Cleveland - Hank Fraley) -Thomas Brown / RB / Georgia San Diego -Ryan Torain / RB / Arizona St. Minnesota (From Jacksonville - T Williamson) -King Dunlap / OT / Auburn NY Giants (FromGreen bay - Ryan Grant) -Simeon Castille / FS / Alabama Miami (From Dallas - Jason Fergason) -Cory Boyd / RB / South Carolina Indianapolis -Jonathan Hefney / CB,FS / Tennessee New England -Jonathan Zenon / CB / LSU NY Giants -Vincent Redd / OLB / Liberty NY Giants - Comp Pick -Lionel Dotson / DT / Arizona Philadelphia - Comp Pick -Zack Bowman / CB / Nebraska Indianapolis - Comp Pick -Curtis Johnson / DEOLB / Clark (Atlanta) Indianapolis - Comp Pick -Shawn McMackin / OT / Hofstra Philadelphia - Comp Pick -Adrian Arrington / WR / Michigan Miami - Comp Pick -Ryan O'Hara / QB / Central Oklahoma Indianapolis - Comp Pick -Jordan Senn / OLB / Portland St Baltimore - Comp Pick -Rudolf Hardie / DE / Howard Cincinnati - Comp Pick -David Roach / FS / TCU Round 7 Miami -Chris Hopkins / TE Toledo Minnesota (From St. Louis - Adam Goldberg) D. J. Parker / FS / Virginia Tech Kansas City -Shannon Tevaga / OG/ UCLA New York Jets -Pedro Sosa / OG,OT / Rutgers Atlanta -Caleb Campbell / SS / Army Oakland -Corey Clark / OT / Texas A&M San Francisco -Archibong "Xavier" Omon / RB / NE Missouri St Baltimore -Cody Wallace / OC / Texas A&M Detroit -Thaddeus Coleman / OT / Mississippi Valley St St. Louis - (From Cincinnati - Ryan Fitzpatrick) -Arman Shields / WR / Richmond New Orleans -Doug Legursky / OC / Marshall Buffalo -Adarius Bowman / WR / Oklahoma St Denver -Ben Moffitt / ILB / S Florida Carolina -Connor Barth / PK / N Carolina Chicago -Steve Johnson / WR / Kentucky Houston -Johnny Dingle / DE / W Virginia Buffalo (From Philly - Spikes/Holcomb) -Wallace Gilberry / DE / Alabama Arizona -Chris McDuffie / OG / Clemson Oakland (From Minny - Bollinger thru NY Jets -Demetrius Bell / OT / Northwestern St Tampa Bay -Chauncey Washington / RB / USC Washington -Jacob Tamme / TE / Kentucky Tennessee -Dominique Barber / FS / Minnesota Philadelphia (From Seattle - Josh Parry) -Colt Brennan / QB / Hawai'i Cleveland -Maurice Murray / DTDE / NMSU Atlanta (From Pitt - Allan Rossom) -Allen Patrick RB / Oklahoma Seattle (From Jacksonville - A Pearman) -Corey Lynch / FS / Appalachian St San Diego -Adam Kraus / OG / Michigan Dallas -Jeremy Leman / ILB / Ilinois Indianapolis -Colin Ferrell / DT / Kent St Green Bay -Dorian Smith / DE / Oregon State New England -Durant Brooks / P / Georgia Tech Kansas City (From NY Giants - Lawence Tynes) -Jehuu Caulcrick / FB / Michigan Baltimore - Comp Pick -Tyer Melhaff / PK / Wisconsin Carolina - Comp Pick -Kerry Brown / OG / Appalachian St Washington - Comp Pick -Marcus Henry / WR / Kansas Chicago - Comp Pick -Barry Boooker / DT / Wisconsin Cincinnati - Comp Pick -Johnathan Wilhite / CB / Auburn Miami - Comp Pick -Jason Shirley / NT / Fresno St Cincinnati - Comp Pick - Jamie Silva / SS / Boston College Chicago - Comp Pick -JJ Finley / TE / Oklahoma Chicago - Comp Pick -Reggie Corner / CB / Akron Washington - Comp Pick -Brian Stamper / OT / Vanderbilt Carolina - Comp Pick -Darrell Strong / TE / Pitt Buffalo - Comp Pick -Justin Harper / WR / Virginia Tech St. Louis -Brian Bonner / SS / TCU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Oustanding draft. I would be extremely happy with the first two picks at the least. Unsure if I would go with Henne but, other than that, I really like this draft. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Freakin' KC stole J Hester from us! Oustanding draft. I would be extremely happy with the first two picks at the least. Unsure if I would go with Henne but, other than that, I really like this draft. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 I'd be moderately pleased with this draft. I don't like the 2nd or 3rd draft picks that much, but can see how others might have them graded there or higher. I would have preferred OG Chilo Rachal in the second (A beast, tons of upside, younger than most, and has a head on his shoulders), and WR Mario Manningham in the 3rd. Of course, that would have changed the entire complexion of your draft...but it would have been much better in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 I'd be moderately pleased with this draft. I don't like the 2nd or 3rd draft picks that much, but can see how others might have them graded there or higher. I would have preferred OG Chilo Rachal in the second (A beast, tons of upside, younger than most, and has a head on his shoulders), and WR Mario Manningham in the 3rd. Of course, that would have changed the entire complexion of your draft...but it would have been much better in my eyes. That certainly makes sense, but I couldn't bank on a WR like Manningham being there. If he hadn't lasted till my third round pick, I'm looking at Donnie Avery or Lavelle Hawkins instead of Manningham, which is a big drop-off to me, whereas waiting on a guard, there is traditionally good value to be found in the middle rounds. Basically, talent dropoff between the guards I thought I could get in the 3rd-4th (Zuttah, Greco, McGlynn) and Rachal was smaller than the talent dropoff between the WRs I though I could get in the 3rd-4th (Avery, Hawkins, Douglas) and Doucet. Turned out I was wrong, but I don't think many people would have expected Manningham to last to pick 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TerraTor Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Those are the worst 1st three picks, we can all officially vomit on each other after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Those are the worst 1st three picks, we can all officially vomit on each other after that. Sure is a lot better than your plan to anchor the line with a guy that couldn't hack it with the Chargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Those are the worst 1st three picks, we can all officially vomit on each other after that. As opposed to drafting a first round RB who is destined to become a bust behind a line that looked absolutely horrible last year? Doesn't matter what kind of slick tires you get if the engine that drives the tires is a piece of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Bust RB's usually aren't solely because of bad OL's...they are bad for far other reasons. To think that Mendenhall will be a bust because he have a current hole at T & G, does not immdiately mean "bust". There are still some FA's out there and possible cuts to pick up, along with...the 2nd or 3rd round. Keep in mind Payton was drafted bfore Van Horne was. No, I'm not comparing Mendenhall to Payton...but what I'm saying is sometimes you do put the cart befroe the horse if the draft dictates so. I guess to some degree some of us have just drawn the line in the sand at this point. Those who want OL, damn the torpedoes. Thos who want Mendenhall, damn the torpedoes. Neither camp knows how either way will play out. Everyone's calling everyone else's choice a bust, etc. It makes for some interesting banter. But there won't be resolution until we see whoever it is at #14 on the filed of play. So maybe we curb the bust talk until we see it actually bust? As opposed to drafting a first round RB who is destined to become a bust behind a line that looked absolutely horrible last year? Doesn't matter what kind of slick tires you get if the engine that drives the tires is a piece of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Bust RB's usually aren't solely because of bad OL's...they are bad for far other reasons. To think that Mendenhall will be a bust because he have a current hole at T & G, does not immdiately mean "bust". There are still some FA's out there and possible cuts to pick up, along with...the 2nd or 3rd round. Keep in mind Payton was drafted bfore Van Horne was. No, I'm not comparing Mendenhall to Payton...but what I'm saying is sometimes you do put the cart befroe the horse if the draft dictates so. I guess to some degree some of us have just drawn the line in the sand at this point. Those who want OL, damn the torpedoes. Thos who want Mendenhall, damn the torpedoes. Neither camp knows how either way will play out. Everyone's calling everyone else's choice a bust, etc. It makes for some interesting banter. But there won't be resolution until we see whoever it is at #14 on the filed of play. So maybe we curb the bust talk until we see it actually bust? Agreed...we don't really know. What we do know, however, are the following two rules that are nearly undeniable. 1) A good OL will make a RB look better than he actually is. 2) A bad OL will make a RB look worse than he actually is.. Very rarely does a good RB make a bad OL look good (Barry Sanders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 That, I will agree with! Agreed...we don't really know. What we do know, however, are the following two rules that are nearly undeniable. 1) A good OL will make a RB look better than he actually is. 2) A bad OL will make a RB look worse than he actually is.. Very rarely does a good RB make a bad OL look good (Barry Sanders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Agreed...we don't really know. What we do know, however, are the following two rules that are nearly undeniable. 1) A good OL will make a RB look better than he actually is. 2) A bad OL will make a RB look worse than he actually is.. Very rarely does a good RB make a bad OL look good (Barry Sanders). However, when you look at draft picks and certain positions, some are more valuable than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Manningham is supposedly falling down boards. Check out the top story on PFW. Manningham "supposedly" tested positive for dope, but denied it. So he gets two strikes. One for the test, and one for the lack of admitting it (honesty). The story went on to talk about how he showed up at the combine a bit out of shape and unprepared, and didn't seem to get on track until he hired an agent, which puts into question his committment. Point is, I understand why you didn't think he would fall, but it is now appearing there are reasons why he is falling, and not just in a fan run mock draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Bust RB's usually aren't solely because of bad OL's...they are bad for far other reasons. To think that Mendenhall will be a bust because he have a current hole at T & G, does not immdiately mean "bust". There are still some FA's out there and possible cuts to pick up, along with...the 2nd or 3rd round. Keep in mind Payton was drafted bfore Van Horne was. No, I'm not comparing Mendenhall to Payton...but what I'm saying is sometimes you do put the cart befroe the horse if the draft dictates so. I guess to some degree some of us have just drawn the line in the sand at this point. Those who want OL, damn the torpedoes. Thos who want Mendenhall, damn the torpedoes. Neither camp knows how either way will play out. Everyone's calling everyone else's choice a bust, etc. It makes for some interesting banter. But there won't be resolution until we see whoever it is at #14 on the filed of play. So maybe we curb the bust talk until we see it actually bust? I personally can go either way. I wouldn't mind it if we landed clady or albert along with forte or johnson, maybe not so much williams cause I don't think a finess LT fits what a power running team requires. I also wouldn't mind it if we took mendenhall and took hill or baker in the second or even cherilous( spelled right?). Point is some people are set that if we do take mendenhall there are no quality offensive linemen in the next two rounds which is pretty stupid considering there have been plenty of pro-bowl caliber olinemen drafted outside the first. If we go oline or mendenhall we're still looking pretty good, but some just refuse to see it that way. I surely won't gripe about getting albert or clady as much as some people here will be chirping if we take mendenhall. Both are glaring holes needed filled, so what does it matter who we take first as long as its the bpa. if clady and albert are gone I personally would rather take the 2nd and by some top rb in the draft as opposed to taking the 5-7th best olineman. That's just common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 I personally would rather take the 2nd and by some top rb in the draft as opposed to taking the 5-7th best olineman. That's just common sense. Disagree, both in general, and specific to this year. It is simply not as simple as you make it out. Often times, the 4th or 5th best player at one positions is better than the 2nd best at another. This year, would you not agree the 5th best OL is better value than the 2nd best QB? Now we all can (and will) continue to argue whether Mendenhal (2nd rated RB) is better than the 5th OL (which could be Albert, Otah, or Williams, depending on who you ask), but the point I would make is that it is not as simple as (much less common sense) the 2nd best RB being better than the 5th best OL. That point is very much in dispute. Point is some people are set that if we do take mendenhall there are no quality offensive linemen in the next two rounds which is pretty stupid considering there have been plenty of pro-bowl caliber olinemen drafted outside the first. Stupid? You say plenty of pro bowl caliber OL were drafted outside the 1st, but just because it has happened, does not mean those players are seen in this draft. Hey, Brady was drafted in the 6th. Does that mean we should wait until the 6th any year to draft QB? Just because a team found that player late in one draft does not mean every draft will provide such. This is not to mean there are no OL after the 1st who "could" be great, but to question your logic. Further, and specific to this draft, I would argue the dropoff at RB after the 1st is less than the dropoff at OL. To help this point along, I provide a link to a new piece from PFW http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value040808.htm At OT, after the 1st round, you have: 1 mid 2nd round value. At RB, after the 1st, you have: 4 2nd round values. Thus, using this chart, it is better value to get that OT in the 1st, and then you would have several RBs to choose from in the 2nd. If you go RB in the 1st, you are far less likely to find good value at OL in the 2nd. Not this cite/source is not gospel. I realize that. But I also think their value chart coincides w/ popular opinion. This is a very strong draft for blue/red chip OL, but considered to have a steep/deep drop after. At RB, you have solid value also, but it is considered to run deeper, meaning you can get better value later at RB than at OL. To sum up, while I am not saying it is impossible that an OL drafted after the 1st couldn't go on to be great, I am saying there is a very solid argument that your post-1st round value at RB is greater than at OL, and the value of the 5th best OL v the 2nd best RB is very much in question. I have my opinion, but the key is I don't believe it is right to say EITHER side is "stupid" or lacking "common sense". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 This year, would you not agree the 5th best OL is better value than the 2nd best QB? I disagree, sort of. My opinion is Brohm is a better prospect at his position then the 4th or 5th tackle at theirs. His value, however, very well may be lower then theirs. Every team is in need for an OL man of some sort. If the LT prospect doesn't pan out, maybe he can be a RT, or LG, or RG, or C. QB isn't as flexible of a position. Most teams have their future prospects or set with current starters. I don't think Brohm's "Value" is dictated by his talent. I personally think it wouldn't be a reach if he was drafted in the top 10 or even top 5. There's a strong possibility he could slip to the second round tho, lowering his "Value" as other teams have more pressing needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Those are the worst 1st three picks, we can all officially vomit on each other after that. Oops, I forget, we HAVE to go RB in the first round. Then how about this: 1) Jamaal Charles, RB, Texas 2) Early Doucet, WR, LSU 3a) Chad Henne, QB, Michigan That's better, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TerraTor Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Disagree, both in general, and specific to this year. It is simply not as simple as you make it out. Often times, the 4th or 5th best player at one positions is better than the 2nd best at another. This year, would you not agree the 5th best OL is better value than the 2nd best QB? Now we all can (and will) continue to argue whether Mendenhal (2nd rated RB) is better than the 5th OL (which could be Albert, Otah, or Williams, depending on who you ask), but the point I would make is that it is not as simple as (much less common sense) the 2nd best RB being better than the 5th best OL. That point is very much in dispute. Stupid? You say plenty of pro bowl caliber OL were drafted outside the 1st, but just because it has happened, does not mean those players are seen in this draft. Hey, Brady was drafted in the 6th. Does that mean we should wait until the 6th any year to draft QB? Just because a team found that player late in one draft does not mean every draft will provide such. This is not to mean there are no OL after the 1st who "could" be great, but to question your logic. Further, and specific to this draft, I would argue the dropoff at RB after the 1st is less than the dropoff at OL. To help this point along, I provide a link to a new piece from PFW http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value040808.htm At OT, after the 1st round, you have: 1 mid 2nd round value. At RB, after the 1st, you have: 4 2nd round values. Thus, using this chart, it is better value to get that OT in the 1st, and then you would have several RBs to choose from in the 2nd. If you go RB in the 1st, you are far less likely to find good value at OL in the 2nd. Not this cite/source is not gospel. I realize that. But I also think their value chart coincides w/ popular opinion. This is a very strong draft for blue/red chip OL, but considered to have a steep/deep drop after. At RB, you have solid value also, but it is considered to run deeper, meaning you can get better value later at RB than at OL. To sum up, while I am not saying it is impossible that an OL drafted after the 1st couldn't go on to be great, I am saying there is a very solid argument that your post-1st round value at RB is greater than at OL, and the value of the 5th best OL v the 2nd best RB is very much in question. I have my opinion, but the key is I don't believe it is right to say EITHER side is "stupid" or lacking "common sense". [/quote Less value in OL in later rounds, who the freak are these great 1st round lineman protecting? God dammit our team has no threat at any skill position...... No good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 again oline will make average people look good. Its just makes NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sense to draft all skill when the most pressing need is line. How about this lets go oline with the first three picks then ALLLLL skill for the lower half of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Less value in OL in later rounds, who the freak are these great 1st round lineman protecting? God dammit our team has no threat at any skill position...... No good Your opinion in this is well known. I have never known anyone who valued the OL as little as you. In your eyes, we should be able to plug just about anyone in on the OL, and it will work out. I disagree. I might have agreed w/ you more if we spent money in FA on the OL, which I know you wanted to do, but that ship has sailed. I know you can name off a few OL still in FA, but I don't see how it matters. If the team is looking at redoing deals for Harris, Hester, Urlacher, Gould and Anderson, I think it shows we do not intend to spend the money necessary to add FA OL. You may not like that, but it is what it is. So w/ that information, we need to address the OL in the draft. Do we need skill position players? Absolutely. At the same time, the issue many here have is, w/o significantly upgrading the OL, any skill position players we add will look like a bust. If we add a WR in the 1st, how good can he look when the QB is on his back due to a lack of blocking. If we draft a RB, how good can we really expect him to look when he is meeting his first defender in the backfield, and having to fight just to get back to the LOS? Until we upgrade our OL, no skill position players will be able to look good. Thus, many here want to first build up the OL. In doing so, we might even be surprised and find a player or two currently on the roster step up. Further, later (next year) when we do add skill position players, they will be in a better position to step up due to the improved blocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 No thank you... This team has many pressing needs. There is no error in attempting to fill really any of them with the BPA when the 14th slot comes up. I just do not want to reach for an OL if all the top ones are gone. again oline will make average people look good. Its just makes NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sense to draft all skill when the most pressing need is line. How about this lets go oline with the first three picks then ALLLLL skill for the lower half of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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