To hell w/ it. Blow it up.

[Connorbear]

I hope Brian Urlacher gets PAID. I like that guy, and I want to see him succeed on the field and off. Anyone who disagrees is a selfish jerk who doesn't understand that these are human beings who have ascended to the highest ranking a very competitive and lucrative market. There is no profit sharing for them as there is for CEOs, no stock options that allow them to share in the increasing television revenues. So if the market allows them to renegotiate, if you are a fan, you should root for them.

Let me first say I don't think it is necessary to call others with a differing point of view selfish jerks.

 

To me, Brian signed a contract and needs to honor it. I don't want to hear that someone who received over 20 million in guarenteed money and is getting 4 million this next yr is unhappy with his contract. Especially when this person acted like a jerk most of last yr.

 

I do not care to hear about his legal issues. I do not care to hear him bitching about money. I want him to shup up and get to practice and be ready to play football in September.

 

Peace

[BearFan PHX]

Let me first say I don't think it is necessary to call others with a differing point of view selfish jerks.

 

To me, Brian signed a contract and needs to honor it. I don't want to hear that someone who received over 20 million in guarenteed money and is getting 4 million this next yr is unhappy with his contract. Especially when this person acted like a jerk most of last yr.

 

I do not care to hear about his legal issues. I do not care to hear him bitching about money. I want him to shup up and get to practice and be ready to play football in September.

 

Peace

 

You know, it isn't really name calling when its substantive.

 

I'm saying that people who think that highly competitive folks who compete at the highest level of a lucrative market will somehow not reach for everything they can ar deluded. And if they think that these athletes SHOULDN'T try to get everything they can, just so that they can enjoy their team during the OFFSEASON without having to worry, are being selfish and jerky.

 

When Benson held out without a valid reason, I was right there with you guys. It was ridiculous to think the that 4th pick should get paid more than the 3rd just because of the abberant Eli Manning issue the year prior. But for a guy like Urlacher to want to renegotiate is natural. The team is talking to him too, they know its natural. Its just this board of judgmental people who think its wrong. Bottom line is its normal in this market, and you can whine about it because you'd rather not have to worry about it, but Urlacher should make as much money as he can, and believe me he will.

 

IF you truly think that Urlacher should care more about you worrying IN APRIL about your team than his own financial future, then you are selfish, and a jerk. That isn't name calling, its descriptive of an incredibly naive and twisted view of the world.

 

You want to say that Briggs is being a jerk, complaining after just having signed his deal? Fine. I'm with you on that. But the idea that a player should just honor his deal because you can't renegotiate yours at work is silly. If you were as good on your job as Urlacher is at his, you'd be getting a raise too.

 

Lastly, who do you think SHOULD get all the money flowing into the NFL? Are you in favor of Mike McCaskey keeping it all? Shouldn't a class act like Urlacher be getting his fair cut? Do you watch the Bears because of McCaskey or because of Urlacher? Which one has a bigger impact on the wins and losses? Players are the workhorses of the league, and if lesser players are getting paid more, if Ulracher's % of the salary cap is shrinking quickly, then he should get a new deal.

 

And its not like the Bears are held hostage. They have leverage too. Both sides do. This is called a negotiation, and the market will sort it out fairly.

 

Now, if Urlacher is holding out into the preseason, or opening day, then we can talk about this. But for God's sake people it mid April. Let the guy try to get paid.

 

Those who know me know that I'm not a habitual name caller. I said what I said because I think it describes the situation, not to be inflammatory.

[DrunkBomber]

It would be suicide to trade your teams two most popular and productive players that also generate the most income for draft picks.

[nfoligno]

Huh? How do Urlacher, Harris or Hester generate income? Team was making money prior to them, and will continue after. Further, team gets plenty of coin outside ticket sales.

[nfoligno]

However, the one flaw with your idea I have is the money that will go to all of those picks is probably greater than what it would cost to sign guys (this may seem like a ridiculous concept, but the amount of guaranteed money top 10 picks get is just crazy). Oh and the other flaw is we are getting rid of guys who gripe about there contract but will than draft guys that end up holding out for at least some part of training camp (or at least there is a very good chance of that, especially as you move into the top 10 picks in the draft; although Angelo clearly has a good history of getting guys signed).

 

Admittedly, I do not have the numbers in front of me, but are the SB's of the 9 and 10 draft picks that out there? I know #1 is, and usually the first few after that, but I didn't think the 9 and 10 were.

 

W/ that said, I would also like to point out the coin these guys are/ may be seeking. Harris supposedly wants $30m. Hester supposedly could be seeking a deal like Berrian's. Didn't he get around $16m? Who knows how much Urlacher wants.

[nfoligno]

2 first round picks for Hester? You really think a team would give 2 first round picks for a return man?

 

Funny. Several others question if we should even do the deal. I saw a think ranking the top players in the league, and in the opinion of that writer, Hester is top 10. Hester scores as much as many WRs or RBs. He is not just "a return man" but the best of all time, and is now looking to move to WR.

 

I have no idea what a team would give for Hester. I have no idea what he is worth in a contract negotiation. Frankly, that is a big part of the problem.

[jason]

IF you truly think that Urlacher should care more about you worrying IN APRIL about your team than his own financial future, then you are selfish, and a jerk. That isn't name calling, its descriptive of an incredibly naive and twisted view of the world.

 

Lastly, who do you think SHOULD get all the money flowing into the NFL? Are you in favor of Mike McCaskey keeping it all? Shouldn't a class act like Urlacher be getting his fair cut? Do you watch the Bears because of McCaskey or because of Urlacher? Which one has a bigger impact on the wins and losses? Players are the workhorses of the league, and if lesser players are getting paid more, if Ulracher's % of the salary cap is shrinking quickly, then he should get a new deal.

 

If you really believe that nonsense, then there is no reason to even discuss this with you. That's the same tired garbage we hear all the time. Sorry, but that dog don't hunt.

 

Urlacher does not have to worry about his future, his kids' futures, or their kids' futures. He has made more during his career than everyone on this board will make in their entire lives.

 

Furthermore, by your logic every deal should be renegotiated every year. If the percentage is different from the year before, then a new deal is needed? Well, what about when a player is good enough to be kept around, but not nearly as good as the deal he signed? The team can't renegotiate in that case, can they?

 

I just don't think you get it. It's not the raise people get frustrated with, it's the "secure future", "insulting offer", "it's not about the money" BS. Fine. Get a raise. Just don't attempt to stronarm the team when they could easily hold you to your contract. And when you ask for your raise, take into account that the end-goal is a championship, and if you want to get double your money, or some insane deal, there is a good chance the team is not going to get a championship.

 

I think you have to ask yourself this question:

At the end of the day, who do you think is happier?

Player A: Got paid multi-millions, was a relatively good player, but not great, and has a fistfull of rings

Player B: Got paid multi-millions, was a superstar, considered one of the best ever, and has no rings

 

I'd rather be Player A, and any player in professional sports who says otherwise is just a greedy asswipe who is the definition of what angers average fans about professional sports.

 

FYI:

A: Scott Williams

B: Karl Malone

[BearFan PHX]

If you really believe that nonsense, then there is no reason to even discuss this with you. That's the same tired garbage we hear all the time. Sorry, but that dog don't hunt.

 

Urlacher does not have to worry about his future, his kids' futures, or their kids' futures. He has made more during his career than everyone on this board will make in their entire lives.

 

Urlacher is a competitor, and he wants as much money as he can get - what's more American than that? What I hear is jealousy here. You won't make millions so you think Urlacher should be happy with what he has. Why?

 

Also, the point is that the money is being spent. Why should other inferior players make more?

 

Furthermore, by your logic every deal should be renegotiated every year. If the percentage is different from the year before, then a new deal is needed? Well, what about when a player is good enough to be kept around, but not nearly as good as the deal he signed? The team can't renegotiate in that case, can they?

 

Teams do renegotiate deals too. In any market, what is possible defines what happens. Teams and players both understand and accept contract renegotiation. Why do the fans on this board think they are more informed than the entire league? Its just arrogant, and ignorant grandstanding.

 

 

I just don't think you get it. It's not the raise people get frustrated with, it's the "secure future", "insulting offer", "it's not about the money" BS. Fine. Get a raise. Just don't attempt to stronarm the team when they could easily hold you to your contract.

 

If the team could just hold them to it, then they wouldn't be able to strongarm them. You don't understand the basic workings of a marketplace. Both sides have leverage, and so both sides will wrestle until a fair middle is found. Besides, how is Urlacher strongarming anyone? All you've heard is second hand quotes from sportswriters. Urlacher himself came out and said it was trash. What if he's simply saying "you know, when I signed my deal it was a pretty good one, but the salary cap has exploded and lesser players are getting more than me, and I'd like a raise commensurate with my value to this team?"

 

And when you ask for your raise, take into account that the end-goal is a championship, and if you want to get double your money, or some insane deal, there is a good chance the team is not going to get a championship.

 

Do you know what Urlacher is asking for? Are you sure it isn't taking this into account?

 

I think you have to ask yourself this question:

At the end of the day, who do you think is happier?

Player A: Got paid multi-millions, was a relatively good player, but not great, and has a fistfull of rings

Player B: Got paid multi-millions, was a superstar, considered one of the best ever, and has no rings

 

Given what I know of Urlacher's competitive spirit, I think he would have to be A, except for the 'not that great' part. How can you know that Urlacher's not asking for 90% of what he's worth - a raise, but still giving the Bears room to sign other guys?

 

Seriously, all I read on this board is that Angelo is an idiot, and our star players are greedy jerks, and I think to myself, what an arrogant bunch of fools there are on this board. Does anyone here run a business, and feel this way about contract renegotiations? Has anyone bought a house, and made a good deal with the knee jerk negotiating tactics that people on this board routinely display - i.e. sign the guy for whatever it takes in the first day of free agency?

 

Guys, trading away Urlacher, Harris and Hester is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sure, trading any player, even all three for an overvalued deal is always something to look at, but the proposition here is to do it because they're greedy.

 

Where are you going to find the superstars to take their place that aren't "greedy"? Do you think your draft class isn't going to want to get paid if they play well, and we start winning? Do you have the faintest idea of how to manage a football team and a salary cap?

 

It just sounds to me like you want to complain about everything - play self important armchair coach and GM. That's OK, its common amongst sports fans. But it isn't very informed about how the NFL actually works.

[Connorbear]

It just sounds to me like you want to complain about everything - play self important armchair coach and GM. That's OK, its common amongst sports fans. But it isn't very informed about how the NFL actually works.

Isn't that the point of the board - to discuss the Bears????

 

Well, personally I see myself as glass half full when it comes to the Bears. I always am looking for the positive in everything they do and thinking that every move could possibly lead to a SB. I am probably foolish that way.

 

Bottom line, we come to this site to express our opinions with other Bear fans. Its ok that we disagree. There is a difference, however, between saying someone is a selfish jerk and saying someone is acting like a selfish jerk. That was the only problem I had with your original response to this post.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Now now...

 

To say urlacher (one of the best selling jerseys,etc) and Hester (the most electrifying man playing in the game) don't make money for the team is foolishness!

 

The team was making money, will always make money, but will always make more when players generate buzz.

 

 

Huh? How do Urlacher, Harris or Hester generate income? Team was making money prior to them, and will continue after. Further, team gets plenty of coin outside ticket sales.

[BearFan PHX]

There is a difference, however, between saying someone is a selfish jerk and saying someone is acting like a selfish jerk. That was the only problem I had with your original response to this post.

 

That's fine. I didn't really see the distinction, so i have no problem with apologizing for calling some a selfish jerk. I can just as easily make my point by saying they are acting like a selfish jerk.

 

I mean, I have no personal beef with anyone on this board. My gripe is with the knee jerk reactions. I don't wish anyone here anything but the best. I extend that to Urlacher too, BTW, which is the entire reason I've posted what I have. I hope we all make tons of money, and I don't blame someone for doing that within the rules. I happen to think that renegotiation IS part of the rules. It is a defacto part of the way business is done in the NFL, so you may not like it, but don't blame Urlacher.

 

Were you all screaming that we shouldn't have used a poison pill in our offer sheet to Tait? No, we were all thrilled that Angelo found a loophole in the system and exploited it for our gain. So this isn't about being moral, its about winning within the rules, which IS moral.

 

Is it enough to knock the ball out of a receiver's hands coming across the middle, or do you want our safeties to hit a guy hard to make him think twice about the next short route? All that's necessary is for THAT pass to be incomplete, but we want our guys to hit him anyway, right? That's part of the game. Hitting a QB in the knees isn't part of the game, so we frown on that. We all know the rules, written and unwritten, and we want our guys right on the edge of what's fair. Deadly competitive, but still fair.

 

Well, renegotiation is fair. It happens all the time. I don't hear our team complaining about it. They know its part of the landscape.

 

Hearing the rants against it is kind of like reading a post that says "in the last game the QB for the Vikings looked like he was going to hand off the ball, and then at the last second he took it back and threw a pass instead. No fair!" Hey - play action is part of the game, it isn't a lie, its a part of the landscape, just like renegotiation, holdouts and all the rest.

 

Hate the game, folks, not the player.

[jason]

Urlacher is a competitor, and he wants as much money as he can get - what's more American than that? What I hear is jealousy here. You won't make millions so you think Urlacher should be happy with what he has. Why?

 

Also, the point is that the money is being spent. Why should other inferior players make more?

 

Teams do renegotiate deals too. In any market, what is possible defines what happens. Teams and players both understand and accept contract renegotiation. Why do the fans on this board think they are more informed than the entire league? Its just arrogant, and ignorant grandstanding.

 

If the team could just hold them to it, then they wouldn't be able to strongarm them. You don't understand the basic workings of a marketplace. Both sides have leverage, and so both sides will wrestle until a fair middle is found. Besides, how is Urlacher strongarming anyone? All you've heard is second hand quotes from sportswriters. Urlacher himself came out and said it was trash. What if he's simply saying "you know, when I signed my deal it was a pretty good one, but the salary cap has exploded and lesser players are getting more than me, and I'd like a raise commensurate with my value to this team?"

 

Do you know what Urlacher is asking for? Are you sure it isn't taking this into account?

 

Given what I know of Urlacher's competitive spirit, I think he would have to be A, except for the 'not that great' part. How can you know that Urlacher's not asking for 90% of what he's worth - a raise, but still giving the Bears room to sign other guys?

 

Seriously, all I read on this board is that Angelo is an idiot, and our star players are greedy jerks, and I think to myself, what an arrogant bunch of fools there are on this board. Does anyone here run a business, and feel this way about contract renegotiations? Has anyone bought a house, and made a good deal with the knee jerk negotiating tactics that people on this board routinely display - i.e. sign the guy for whatever it takes in the first day of free agency?

 

Guys, trading away Urlacher, Harris and Hester is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sure, trading any player, even all three for an overvalued deal is always something to look at, but the proposition here is to do it because they're greedy.

 

Where are you going to find the superstars to take their place that aren't "greedy"? Do you think your draft class isn't going to want to get paid if they play well, and we start winning? Do you have the faintest idea of how to manage a football team and a salary cap?

 

It just sounds to me like you want to complain about everything - play self important armchair coach and GM. That's OK, its common amongst sports fans. But it isn't very informed about how the NFL actually works.

 

It's clear that debating or discussing this with you is pointless because you don't even pay attention. Besides that, you clearly have a broken sarcasm meter, and your hypothetical situation gauge is just plain broken. Nobody wants to actually trade Urlacher, Harris, and Hester. For you to take it seriously shows how blind you are when it comes to these discussions. You don't actually take time to read the responses and understand them, you just toss out rebuttals because you are such a fanboy.

 

When I made the majority of the comments, I wasn't speaking specifically about Urlacher, but instead about spoiled athetes.

 

As for your points:

1) So, it's about the players being competitors now, and not about their secure futures?

2) We all know contracts get renegotiated. We all know each side has specific leverage. It's not grandstanding, and it sure as hell isn't ignorant. What you fail to get, still, is that while the negotiations are accepted by the league, you can bet your ass that the teams abhor the constant bitching by the players about being underpaid. And you can guarantee they hate the fact that a guy will sign a four year, front-loaded deal, and then complain halfway through when the big bucks are gone.

2b) Point me to one situation in which the team went to a player and said, "Look, if you were doing well, you'd be asking for a renegotiation for more money. However, you sucked last year, and weren't up to par with your contract the year before that; so, we'd like to renegotiate your salary so that you diminished performance is more in line with your worth to the team." DOESN'T HAPPEN

3) As for your comments about fools on this board, I think you are in the minority when it comes to thoughts on how the negotiations happen. You are in the minority about the players and their contracts. And you are being incredibly obtuse, arrogant, and ignorant to think your opinion, which is pretty clearly in the minority, is somehow superior than ours. You don't hear much complaining when the millions are thrown around like nickels, but when the players complain, that's when you hear the noise. What about that don't you get? It's not even the renegotiation that gets the complaints. It's the comments alongside the renegotiation that are basically slaps to the face of hard-working, normal fans who know greed when they see it.

4) Last but not least, comparing the renegotiations between professional athletes and normal people is just plain stupid. It's apples and oranges. Sure, people renegotiate at their jobs, but rarely will you hear someone do so while quoting the company's profit margin. And it's very rare for someone to get a raise of some absurd percentage like 30% or 40% more. And it's nearly nonexistent for a person to bad mouth their employer and STILL get that raise!

 

It's not that we don't understand the league. It's not that we don't understand money, negotiations, contracts, or business. It's that we hate greed. And what the players seem to be doing more and more these days sure as hell looks, sounds, and smells like greed to most fans I've heard. But go ahead thinking that you are the superior intellect, one who knows more than just about everyone else who seem to agree on the opposite of your beliefs.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think it's everything being thrown at us that's really starting to anger us loyal fans. This team as a whole is starting to look like it might just need to be blown up. With football starting to buzz again, me as a fan would like to hear these players are hungry to redeem themselves and the front office is ready to add the right pieces through the draft to help bring the team to that level again. But all were getting out of the media is the unhappiness of the team. We've read about Harris, Urlacher, Briggs, Hester, and now Gould all unhappy and most of them are skipping the voluntary workouts except for Hester. I know its voluntary, but not showing up to me says that they don't care enough about the team or there goals. Right now, this team has nothing going for them at all. Questions at every offensive position (QB, RB, WR, T, G) and now we have our best D players which should be the leaders of this team threatening the only positive we have to look forward to. If there going to be unhappy and show there displeasure by not showing leadership by being at the voluntary practices/working out as a team, we will never reach our goal. The Bears front office have said they want to get all of these guys taken care of and they want to take care of there own. Negotiations take time which is understandable. These players also have to realize that theres only so many gum balls in the jar and if they all want the most, they all won't be able to dip into the same jar. I hope we can get this all behind us quickly and this team can get together and focus on winning. Otherwise, like thread was titled to hell w/ it. Blow it up.

[BearFan PHX]

It's clear that debating or discussing this with you is pointless because you don't even pay attention.

 

No, I just don't agree with you.

 

Besides that, you clearly have a broken sarcasm meter, and your hypothetical situation gauge is just plain broken. Nobody wants to actually trade Urlacher, Harris, and Hester. For you to take it seriously shows how blind you are when it comes to these discussions. You don't actually take time to read the responses and understand them, you just toss out rebuttals because you are such a fanboy.

 

Actually, I toss out rebuttals because I don't agree with you. You are assuming that if I understood your jealous and judgmental point of view that i would have to agree with it, but I don't is all.

 

When I made the majority of the comments, I wasn'tspeaking specifically about Urlacher, but instead about spoiled athetes.

 

Well I don't disagree about some spoiled athletes. Benson and Briggs come to mind. Of course I said so in earlier posts, so maybe you're not the one reading and understanding?

 

As for your points:

1) So, it's about the players being competitors now, and not about their secure futures?

 

All of the above. Everyone works for money, don't you? More money is better. Money isn't everything, but it isn't nothing either. Have you ever turned down a raise?

 

2) We all know contracts get renegotiated. We all know each side has specific leverage. It's not grandstanding, and it sure as hell isn't ignorant. What you fail to get, still, is that while the negotiations are accepted by the league, you can bet your ass that the teams abhor the constant bitching by the players about being underpaid. And you can guarantee they hate the fact that a guy will sign a four year, front-loaded deal, and then complain halfway through when the big bucks are gone.

 

But if they know that these things happen going in, then surely planning for such eventualities must also be included in the first deal? If everyone knows it happens, then why are you so upset that it happens?

 

2b) Point me to one situation in which the team went to a player and said, "Look, if you were doing well, you'd be asking for a renegotiation for more money. However, you sucked last year, and weren't up to par with your contract the year before that; so, we'd like to renegotiate your salary so that you diminished performance is more in line with your worth to the team." DOESN'T HAPPEN

 

Didn't we try to do this with Darwin Walker before we cut him? I hear stories every year in the paper about players that the team wants to ask to take a pay cut or else they will cut them. But so what? Even if you're right about this, if it is the norm, then it is included in the understanding when the first deal is made. Why can't you understand this? And why does it make you so angry?

 

3) As for your comments about fools on this board, I think you are in the minority when it comes to thoughts on how the negotiations happen. You are in the minority about the players and their contracts. And you are being incredibly obtuse, arrogant, and ignorant to think your opinion, which is pretty clearly in the minority, is somehow superior than ours. You don't hear much complaining when the millions are thrown around like nickels, but when the players complain, that's when you hear the noise. What about that don't you get?

 

So because a majority of fans on this board don't agree with the professionals doing it for a living, I must be wrong? Does it occur to you that the GMs of the league might know better than the majority of the folks on this board? To be clear, i don't think I know even 10% of what it takes to be a GM. I don't think any of us do. The difference is that I admit that, so if that makes me arrogant, I think you are a little too in love with your own point of view.

 

It's not even the renegotiation that gets the complaints. It's the comments alongside the renegotiation that are basically slaps to the face of hard-working, normal fans who know greed when they see it. 4) Last but not least, comparing the renegotiations between professional athletes and normal people is just plain stupid. It's apples and oranges. Sure, people renegotiate at their jobs, but rarely will you hear someone do so while quoting the company's profit margin. And it's very rare for someone to get a raise of some absurd percentage like 30% or 40% more. And it's nearly nonexistent for a person to bad mouth their employer and STILL get that raise!

 

I think THIS is the heart of the matter. You're jealous because you don't get star treatment. For the record, yes some high ranked working folks DO get paid more after performing well, and they DO play hardball with their employers. Lawyers and executives do it all the time. And the raise can be a lot more than 30 or 40%.

 

You think that someone who has the position to demand more is a slap in the face to you because you don't. Well, I didn't do that to you, and neither did Urlacher. Maybe you should have paid more attention in school, or grow a pair of balls. The world is a competitive place, and winners get paid.

 

A guy who is a fast talking CEO is a bigger asshole than a guy like Urlacher who works his tail off. I respect the hell out of Urlacher, and I hope he gets paid big. I also think that mid April is a fine time to make contract demands.

 

It's not that we don't understand the league. It's not that we don't understand money, negotiations, contracts, or business. It's that we hate greed.

 

If you misuderstand the leauge, money, negotiations, contracts and business as greed, then yes, you don't understand it

 

And what the players seem to be doing more and more these days sure as hell looks, sounds, and smells like greed to most fans I've heard. But go ahead thinking that you are the superior intellect, one who knows more than just about everyone else who seem to agree on the opposite of your beliefs.

 

Again, just because the majority think something doesn't make it right. And just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean that I think I am the smartest guy on the planet. After this discussion, I do think I might be smarter than you though. But that isn't arrogance, you're just flying off the handle in an internet discussion, and saying a lot of dumb stuff, so you'll pardon my inability to notice how bright you are in that context.

 

As for being arrogant and superior because I think I'm right, isn't that exactly what you're doing too? Is it possible to stand up for your side of an argument without being seen that way by the other side? Is that possible with you?

 

Seriously, you need to calm down. Its mid April, and Biran is just trying to get paid. Its about as natural a thing as there is, and you're WAY overreacting.

[Connorbear]

A guy who is a fast talking CEO is a bigger asshole than a guy like Urlacher who works his tail off.

Anyone who has followed the trials and tribulations of Motorola (the company I work for) would agree with this. Ed Zander screwed this company into the ground and got a 30 million dollar buyout as a thank you.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

Huh? How do Urlacher, Harris or Hester generate income? Team was making money prior to them, and will continue after. Further, team gets plenty of coin outside ticket sales.

Jersey sales. Other merchandise. Theres also that they have huge fanbases and fans generate money for teams. I shouldnt have to even explain this just to prove a point, but I really hoping youre not trying to say those guys dont make more money for the team than other players. Also, if you traded them there would be several fans, myself included, that would be very upset about getting rid of the two biggest producers on our team and might think twice about paying $300 to go to a game to watch a bunch of over priced rookies instead of Urlacher and Hester.

[DrunkBomber]

Funny. Several others question if we should even do the deal. I saw a think ranking the top players in the league, and in the opinion of that writer, Hester is top 10. Hester scores as much as many WRs or RBs. He is not just "a return man" but the best of all time, and is now looking to move to WR.

 

I have no idea what a team would give for Hester. I have no idea what he is worth in a contract negotiation. Frankly, that is a big part of the problem.

I agree Hester is more than just a kick returner but there still isnt a chance in hell a team would give up two first rounders for him. There may be 5 guys in the league that would demand that kind of return in a trade and he isnt one of them. Trading Hester would be a terrible idea because we wouldnt get anything near what his value is in a trade.

[bear trap]

No, I just don't agree with you.

 

 

 

Actually, I toss out rebuttals because I don't agree with you. You are assuming that if I understood your jealous and judgmental point of view that i would have to agree with it, but I don't is all.

 

 

 

Well I don't disagree about some spoiled athletes. Benson and Briggs come to mind. Of course I said so in earlier posts, so maybe you're not the one reading and understanding?

 

 

 

All of the above. Everyone works for money, don't you? More money is better. Money isn't everything, but it isn't nothing either. Have you ever turned down a raise?

 

 

But if they know that these things happen going in, then surely planning for such eventualities must also be included in the first deal? If everyone knows it happens, then why are you so upset that it happens?

 

 

 

Didn't we try to do this with Darwin Walker before we cut him? I hear stories every year in the paper about players that the team wants to ask to take a pay cut or else they will cut them. But so what? Even if you're right about this, if it is the norm, then it is included in the understanding when the first deal is made. Why can't you understand this? And why does it make you so angry?

 

 

 

So because a majority of fans on this board don't agree with the professionals doing it for a living, I must be wrong? Does it occur to you that the GMs of the league might know better than the majority of the folks on this board? To be clear, i don't think I know even 10% of what it takes to be a GM. I don't think any of us do. The difference is that I admit that, so if that makes me arrogant, I think you are a little too in love with your own point of view.

 

 

 

I think THIS is the heart of the matter. You're jealous because you don't get star treatment. For the record, yes some high ranked working folks DO get paid more after performing well, and they DO play hardball with their employers. Lawyers and executives do it all the time. And the raise can be a lot more than 30 or 40%.

 

You think that someone who has the position to demand more is a slap in the face to you because you don't. Well, I didn't do that to you, and neither did Urlacher. Maybe you should have paid more attention in school, or grow a pair of balls. The world is a competitive place, and winners get paid.

 

A guy who is a fast talking CEO is a bigger asshole than a guy like Urlacher who works his tail off. I respect the hell out of Urlacher, and I hope he gets paid big. I also think that mid April is a fine time to make contract demands.

 

 

 

If you misuderstand the leauge, money, negotiations, contracts and business as greed, then yes, you don't understand it

 

 

 

Again, just because the majority think something doesn't make it right. And just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean that I think I am the smartest guy on the planet. After this discussion, I do think I might be smarter than you though. But that isn't arrogance, you're just flying off the handle in an internet discussion, and saying a lot of dumb stuff, so you'll pardon my inability to notice how bright you are in that context.

 

As for being arrogant and superior because I think I'm right, isn't that exactly what you're doing too? Is it possible to stand up for your side of an argument without being seen that way by the other side? Is that possible with you?

 

Seriously, you need to calm down. Its mid April, and Biran is just trying to get paid. Its about as natural a thing as there is, and you're WAY overreacting.

 

 

 

No one ever turns down a raise, but in his defense I think what he and this entire argument is all about is how many people say they won't report to work until they receive a raise. Even factory workers don't do that, sure they strike and picket, but 9 times out of 10 it's b/c an employer is trying to TAKE AWAY FROM it's worker. An employer who's got a contract for it's union "player" rarely have problems until the contract's up and that my friend is why everyone's pissed about the overall team attitude. They're behaving like a bunch of kindergardeners you know the whole "SO and SO's making more than me, I'm not going to play until I make what he makes. That's contract for you. You sign it you're locked in no questions asked. Play the shit out, do your job and go for more when it's up. Only players think it's okay to cry their way out of it. I signed a contract w/ my nat. gas company, for a certain price and just found a different supplier for a little cheaper. By your theory I have the right to not pay my gas bill until I get it for the lower price right? I mean contracts hold no bearing correct? I think we all know better than that, and that's why we're all fed up. Not b/c of the negotiations, but because of the bickering from the guys who willingly signed these contracts and now want more cause someone else got more.

[BearFan PHX]

No one ever turns down a raise, but in his defense I think what he and this entire argument is all about is how many people say they won't report to work until they receive a raise. Even factory workers don't do that, sure they strike and picket, but 9 times out of 10 it's b/c an employer is trying to TAKE AWAY FROM it's worker. An employer who's got a contract for it's union "player" rarely have problems until the contract's up and that my friend is why everyone's pissed about the overall team attitude. They're behaving like a bunch of kindergardeners you know the whole "SO and SO's making more than me, I'm not going to play until I make what he makes. That's contract for you. You sign it you're locked in no questions asked. Play the shit out, do your job and go for more when it's up. Only players think it's okay to cry their way out of it. I signed a contract w/ my nat. gas company, for a certain price and just found a different supplier for a little cheaper. By your theory I have the right to not pay my gas bill until I get it for the lower price right? I mean contracts hold no bearing correct? I think we all know better than that, and that's why we're all fed up. Not b/c of the negotiations, but because of the bickering from the guys who willingly signed these contracts and now want more cause someone else got more.

 

Actually no. My theory isn't that this is a normal occurence with gas companies. It is, however, a normal occurence with lawyers and executives.

 

The fact is that there are examples in life where the analogy doesn't fit, and there are examples where it does. But either way, the only example that matters is the last few years of the NFL, and in that time, renegotiations have been common place.

 

It happens all over sports, and we all just need to understand that. Bitching about how it "should be" is just naive. Understanding "how it is" is more realistic. That's all I'm saying. I expect Urlacher to act like a Professional Football Player, and that includes revisiting his deal when he's led the league in LB interceptions over the past two years. He's obviously the main cog that makes our defense go, and the salary cap has increased dramatically.

 

Since there is more cash available, and the number of players on the field at the same time is still 11, and the roster size is still 53, supply and demand says that Urlacher's deal is undervalued, and that means the market will move to fix it.

 

Being angry about that is just plain weird.

[bear trap]

Actually no. My theory isn't that this is a normal occurence with gas companies. It is, however, a normal occurence with lawyers and executives.

 

The fact is that there are examples in life where the analogy doesn't fit, and there are examples where it does. But either way, the only example that matters is the last few years of the NFL, and in that time, renegotiations have been common place.

 

It happens all over sports, and we all just need to understand that. Bitching about how it "should be" is just naive. Understanding "how it is" is more realistic. That's all I'm saying. I expect Urlacher to act like a Professional Football Player, and that includes revisiting his deal when he's led the league in LB interceptions over the past two years. He's obviously the main cog that makes our defense go, and the salary cap has increased dramatically.

 

Since there is more cash available, and the number of players on the field at the same time is still 11, and the roster size is still 53, supply and demand says that Urlacher's deal is undervalued, and that means the market will move to fix it.

 

Being angry about that is just plain weird.

 

Once again, you're not READING this reply, so I'm going to put it in BOLD letters Most people aren't mad at the renegotiations, they're mad at the ATTITUDE The whole I'm not going to report or play if I don't get my way, and if you think this behavior is acceptable you're no better than drew rosenhause himself!

[BearFan PHX]

Once again, you're not READING this reply, so I'm going to put it in BOLD letters Most people aren't mad at the renegotiations, they're mad at the ATTITUDE The whole I'm not going to report or play if I don't get my way, and if you think this behavior is acceptable you're no better than drew rosenhause himself!

 

Man, you disagree here and get these really childish responses.

 

I read what you wrote, asshole. I don't need your bold letters or sarcasm.

 

I'm sorry if you can't understand how the market works. The threat of holding out is the leverage a player has, and they employ it.

 

Everyone in the NFL understands this. I'm sorry I've tried to explain it to you all. If it makes you so angry, maybe you need to look at yourself. I'm not the enemy here, I'm just trying to explain simple economics to you. But I think since you and several other have been such assholes, I'll just go somewhere else.

 

Is this the kind of abuse that this board has deteriorated into?

[KiLoc69]

Bearfan,

 

I agree with alot of what you are saying (and disagree with alot too) but thinking the way you do, I am shocked that you were against Benson's "holdout".

 

The guy was not an employee of the Bears and they offered him a contract. He/his agent didn't feel it was fair, and he counter-offered. The Bears counter-offered and so on until he got signed. Pretty standard negotiations. If the Bears didn't like his price tag, they didn't have to sign him. I don't understand how anyone can fault Benson for that. We may disagree with what his idea of "fair" is, but that's not really for us to decide.

 

 

Since Benson was not under contract, I think he had infinitaley more basis than Urlacher to try and get as much money as possible. Isn't that the idea? To get as much money as possible written into the contract so that you will be happy until it's time to sign the next one?

[bear trap]

Man, you disagree here and get these really childish responses.

 

I read what you wrote, asshole. I don't need your bold letters or sarcasm.

 

I'm sorry if you can't understand how the market works. The threat of holding out is the leverage a player has, and they employ it.

 

Everyone in the NFL understands this. I'm sorry I've tried to explain it to you all. If it makes you so angry, maybe you need to look at yourself. I'm not the enemy here, I'm just trying to explain simple economics to you. But I think since you and several other have been such assholes, I'll just go somewhere else.

 

Is this the kind of abuse that this board has deteriorated into?

 

I'm sorry I didn't think I was using sarcasm, or childish gestures. I wanted you to see the actual point, so show some class and refrain from calling people assholes, cause you're really belittling yourself. And by the way I'm not an expert on the market and all, but just someone who sees the ridiculous behavior of the players in this league. But you already knew that cause I guess your the expert. (There's your sarcasm)

[BearFan PHX]

Bearfan,

 

I agree with alot of what you are saying (and disagree with alot too) but thinking the way you do, I am shocked that you were against Benson's "holdout".

 

I guess that my feeling is that what the market will 'bear' is what's fair.

 

When Benson held out long past the time he should have concluded his little game, and the basis of his holdout was that h wanted more money at the 4th pick than the 3rd pick received, because Philip Rivers had gotten more at 4 the year prior than the #3 guy was ridiculous.

 

We all knew that the team with the #1 pick traded Eli immediately, and then got Rivers 'at 4', so it wasn't really fair that Rivers wasn't paid #1 money, and they found a deal between the 2nd and 3rd pick in value. That was a weird situation.

 

For Benson to then argue that the #4 pick is more valuable than the #3 pick was idiocy. Can you imagine a team with #3 saying "Boy, I wish we had #4, then we could get the guy we wanted. Too bad he wasn't there at #3."

 

That's what made me not respect his stance. if he was holding out for a higher deal than he was offered that was still slotted below the 3rd pick's $, then it would have made more sense. If you recall, it took another agent to step in and explain to him that his position was untenable.

 

Urlacher's position is nothing like that, but Briggs' is. Therefore I am not happy that Briggs is complaining (if he is) but I think Urlacher is fine.

 

BTW, Miami, I appreciate the way that you disagreed. It was respectful, and even handed. I will always respond in kind to a post like that. We don't have to agree to be civil - I truly respect that.

[BearFan PHX]

I'm sorry I didn't think I was using sarcasm, or childish gestures. I wanted you to see the actual point, so show some class and refrain from calling people assholes, cause you're really belittling yourself. And by the way I'm not an expert on the market and all, but just someone who sees the ridiculous behavior of the players in this league. But you already knew that cause I guess your the expert. (There's your sarcasm)

 

I thought the bold letters and underlining was pretty weak. Now you want to take the high ground? That's hypocritical, and that's what I call an asshole.

 

BTW, it doesn't belittle me to call it like I see it.

 

I'm really not going to keep arguing with you guys. If you don't get it, you don't get it. The GMs, agents and players do, and that's all that really matters.