Talking OL

[nfoligno]

W/ the draft so close, I wanted to take a fresh look at the OL. Here is my board.

 

1. Albert - I have him ahead of Clady, but ask me again tomorrow, and it could change. They are that close. While I think Clady has the most potential to start right away at LT, I simply think Albert is going to be a stud somewhere on the OL. IMHO, he has a ceiling of being a Walter Jones at LT, and a floor of Ruben Brown at OG. If we had no need for OG, I might edge Clady, but we need to hit on our 1st pick, and Albert is as close to a sure thing IMHO as any.

 

2. Clady is next, by a hair. In Clady, you have a prototypical LT prospect who might be able to start at LT as a rookie. If not, I think he could start at RT, and move to LT in a year. If one of these two players make it to Buffalo, I would consider making a call and offering our later 3rd (which should be enough) to leapfrong Denver and Carolina.

 

3. Otah - I think many would list Williams here, but I simply like Otah. He may not have as great of a shot at LT as Williams, but I think his upside is sky high while his downside is also high. Everyone points to his lack of experience, as he didn't play football until his senior year of HS, and only played two years in college before entering the draft. I look at that, and then factor how he immediately took over the LT position for Pitt and starter there for two years. Even on the raw side, he was able to start and play at a high level at the most difficult position on the OL. That, IMHO, is impressive. The fact that he has barely touched his potential screams of his upside. In Otah, we have a OL w/ the sort of mentality you love. He would start out at RT, but IMHO, does have the potential to move over to the left side down the road.

 

4. Williams - I am not sure his upside is as great as others, but he is a solid LT prospect. Could start at OG and slide outside in a year. I wish he had more of a mean streak, and he plays a more finesse game, but that can work fine at LT.

 

5. Cherilus - A BIG part of me actually likes him over Williams, but Cherilus is a pure RT, and the value of LT simply puts Williams higher. Cherilus is downgraded as he will not play LT, but we need to upgrade the OL all over, and Cherilus would definitely do that, albeit on the right side.

 

6. Baker - Like Williams, Baker simply doesn't have the upside you love, but he is a great LT prospect, and may actually be capable of starting there as a rookie. I do not think he will ever see a pro bowl, but could be a long term, solid starting LT, which has huge value. May never be a stud, but good chance he could become a solid starter at a key position.

 

7. Rachal - I rank him higher than most. He was as stud on the OL for a top tier team. While some say he can play OG or OT, I see him as an OG who will dominate his position for many years. I love his ability at the 2nd level, and love his intelligence and ability to read, which our OL has lacked. He would be among the 1st I would look at in the 2nd round.

 

8. McGlynn - Played opposite Otah. Reports say he could play anywhere (but center) on the OL. He has the ability to slide over to the left side down the road, and might have started there in college if not for Otah. Could also move inside and be a great OG. Attitude you love in an OL. Plays whistle to whiste, and may even sit on his guy after the whistle. Doesn't block and then disengage. Another very football intelligent player who simply knows the game, which again, we are in desparate need of.

 

9. Collins - Like Otah, lacks the long term experience after only one year of football in HS, and leaving college early. Most believe he should have stayed in school another year, and if he did, could be a significantly higher graded LT prospect. Will need time on the right side to develop, but has all the tools to make the move to the left.

 

10. Schuening - Pure OG prospect, but a very good one. Smart player who plays w/ aggressiveness. Great in the trenches, and most knocks come from when he finished the year, due to team need, at RT. Has the quickness and power to dominate inside, but not the slide/foot work to play on the edge. That's fine. We need an OG.

 

I see the top 6 as 1st round players, and the last 4 as 2nd round values.

 

Players just off my top 10.

 

Duane Brown - Many would have high higher due to his athleticism and potential, but I look at floor as well as ceiling. Former TE who moved to OT and was up and down. Dominant on one play, and giving up a sack (playing LT) on the next. Tremendous upside, but in need of major coaching and development, and could be a total bust, IMHO. He soared up the boards after posted great numbers for an OL, showing the athleticism that had him playing TE. While there are others w/ limited OT experience as well, he has not shown the natural propencity for the position as the others, and I simply view him more boom/bust. Either the light turns on and he is a stud, or the light doesn't turn on, and he is a dud. I do not see much middle ground for him. If we were talking later 3rd, fine, but I think w/ his athleticism and potential, he will go a round too high.

 

Carl Nicks - Issues w/ weight and classroom (failed out of school, and went to three different colleges). Limited time as a starter on the OL. Another developmental player, who I would not mind in the late 3rd or 4th, but potential could push him too high for me.

 

Oneil Cousins - Former DT who moved around on the OL once moved to offense. Big time developmental project, who is graded high due to potential, but that potential is down the road, IMHO. I do not see him playing OT, and while he could be a good OG, I question his ability to dominate inside also. Following the trend, another player who I would not mind later in the draft to put in the depth chart to work w/ and develop, but I think he will get drafted higher.

 

Drew Radovich - This is an OG prospect I like a bit later (maybe 4th). His struggled and negatives appear to be regarding OT, which are negated if he simply plays OG. He needs time to develop, but has the right mental makeup and attitude you look for, and could very well develop into a very good OG down the road.

[sprout]

W/ the draft so close, I wanted to take a fresh look at the OL. Here is my board.

 

1. Albert - I have him ahead of Clady, but ask me again tomorrow, and it could change. They are that close. While I think Clady has the most potential to start right away at LT, I simply think Albert is going to be a stud somewhere on the OL. IMHO, he has a ceiling of being a Walter Jones at LT, and a floor of Ruben Brown at OG. If we had no need for OG, I might edge Clady, but we need to hit on our 1st pick, and Albert is as close to a sure thing IMHO as any.

 

2. Clady is next, by a hair. In Clady, you have a prototypical LT prospect who might be able to start at LT as a rookie. If not, I think he could start at RT, and move to LT in a year. If one of these two players make it to Buffalo, I would consider making a call and offering our later 3rd (which should be enough) to leapfrong Denver and Carolina.

 

3. Otah - I think many would list Williams here, but I simply like Otah. He may not have as great of a shot at LT as Williams, but I think his upside is sky high while his downside is also high. Everyone points to his lack of experience, as he didn't play football until his senior year of HS, and only played two years in college before entering the draft. I look at that, and then factor how he immediately took over the LT position for Pitt and starter there for two years. Even on the raw side, he was able to start and play at a high level at the most difficult position on the OL. That, IMHO, is impressive. The fact that he has barely touched his potential screams of his upside. In Otah, we have a OL w/ the sort of mentality you love. He would start out at RT, but IMHO, does have the potential to move over to the left side down the road.

 

4. Williams - I am not sure his upside is as great as others, but he is a solid LT prospect. Could start at OG and slide outside in a year. I wish he had more of a mean streak, and he plays a more finesse game, but that can work fine at LT.

 

5. Cherilus - A BIG part of me actually likes him over Williams, but Cherilus is a pure RT, and the value of LT simply puts Williams higher. Cherilus is downgraded as he will not play LT, but we need to upgrade the OL all over, and Cherilus would definitely do that, albeit on the right side.

 

6. Baker - Like Williams, Baker simply doesn't have the upside you love, but he is a great LT prospect, and may actually be capable of starting there as a rookie. I do not think he will ever see a pro bowl, but could be a long term, solid starting LT, which has huge value. May never be a stud, but good chance he could become a solid starter at a key position.

 

7. Rachal - I rank him higher than most. He was as stud on the OL for a top tier team. While some say he can play OG or OT, I see him as an OG who will dominate his position for many years. I love his ability at the 2nd level, and love his intelligence and ability to read, which our OL has lacked. He would be among the 1st I would look at in the 2nd round.

 

8. McGlynn - Played opposite Otah. Reports say he could play anywhere (but center) on the OL. He has the ability to slide over to the left side down the road, and might have started there in college if not for Otah. Could also move inside and be a great OG. Attitude you love in an OL. Plays whistle to whiste, and may even sit on his guy after the whistle. Doesn't block and then disengage. Another very football intelligent player who simply knows the game, which again, we are in desparate need of.

 

9. Collins - Like Otah, lacks the long term experience after only one year of football in HS, and leaving college early. Most believe he should have stayed in school another year, and if he did, could be a significantly higher graded LT prospect. Will need time on the right side to develop, but has all the tools to make the move to the left.

 

10. Schuening - Pure OG prospect, but a very good one. Smart player who plays w/ aggressiveness. Great in the trenches, and most knocks come from when he finished the year, due to team need, at RT. Has the quickness and power to dominate inside, but not the slide/foot work to play on the edge. That's fine. We need an OG.

 

I see the top 6 as 1st round players, and the last 4 as 2nd round values.

 

Players just off my top 10.

 

Duane Brown - Many would have high higher due to his athleticism and potential, but I look at floor as well as ceiling. Former TE who moved to OT and was up and down. Dominant on one play, and giving up a sack (playing LT) on the next. Tremendous upside, but in need of major coaching and development, and could be a total bust, IMHO. He soared up the boards after posted great numbers for an OL, showing the athleticism that had him playing TE. While there are others w/ limited OT experience as well, he has not shown the natural propencity for the position as the others, and I simply view him more boom/bust. Either the light turns on and he is a stud, or the light doesn't turn on, and he is a dud. I do not see much middle ground for him. If we were talking later 3rd, fine, but I think w/ his athleticism and potential, he will go a round too high.

 

Carl Nicks - Issues w/ weight and classroom (failed out of school, and went to three different colleges). Limited time as a starter on the OL. Another developmental player, who I would not mind in the late 3rd or 4th, but potential could push him too high for me.

 

Oneil Cousins - Former DT who moved around on the OL once moved to offense. Big time developmental project, who is graded high due to potential, but that potential is down the road, IMHO. I do not see him playing OT, and while he could be a good OG, I question his ability to dominate inside also. Following the trend, another player who I would not mind later in the draft to put in the depth chart to work w/ and develop, but I think he will get drafted higher.

 

Drew Radovich - This is an OG prospect I like a bit later (maybe 4th). His struggled and negatives appear to be regarding OT, which are negated if he simply plays OG. He needs time to develop, but has the right mental makeup and attitude you look for, and could very well develop into a very good OG down the road.

 

 

I don't know where Baker is projected to go, but I would love if we could get him in the 2nd rd.

[nfoligno]

I don't know where Baker is projected to go, but I would love if we could get him in the 2nd rd.

 

I would love that too, but I think he will be gone. Where he goes sort of depends on whether or not the expected OL run in the 1st happens or not. Regardless, I think he is gone by our pick. Either there is a run in the top 15 picks on OL, w/ as many as 5 taken, and thus Baker likely doesn't get out of the 1st round, or teams in the top 15 pass, but in that scenario, you would have a lot of OL needy teams picking at the top of the 2nd.

 

The only way I see Baker falling to us is if teams begin drafting some other OTs who have a higher ceiling, but need greater development and have a great bust potential, over Baker. Brown, Collins, Cousins for example, are all OTs would a team "could" grade over Baker due to potential.

 

W/ that said, I just don't see it happening.

[Zod]

I really do like Otah. I think he has that special blend of power and balance that he can contribute right away on the right side. Everyone is getting hung up on his negatives but I think his power run blocking is unmatched in this draft.

[nfoligno]

Honestly, I think the main hang up for fans is whether or not he can project to the left side. Few argue against taking a LT prospect in the 1st as the hope is you are getting a 2 for 1 upgrade. Develop a stud LT and move Tait to RT, where he may again look great and hide his age.

 

If the prospect is more likely a RT, then you upgrade the RT position, but leave Tait on the left.

 

So I don't think most have a problem w/ Otah, or his perceived negatives. I think the problem is the position he plays.

 

I wuold love a 2 for 1 upgrade, but a potential pro bowl RT works for me too.

[BearSox]

I wouldn't touch Baker before the 3rd round.

[Guest TerraTor]

what happened to the vomiting smiley? I need it. OL makes me ill.

[BearSox]

what happened to the vomiting smiley? I need it. OL makes me ill.

Our current OLine would make Mendenhall, or any skill guy we draft, ill.

[Guest TerraTor]

Our current OLine would make Mendenhall, or any skill guy we draft, ill.

 

cant argue that they suck, but benson is worse than anyone on the line or the line as a whole.

[BearSox]

cant argue that they suck, but benson is worse than anyone on the line or the line as a whole.

what don't you understand... Great Oline's turn mediocre players (QB's and RB's) into good-great players. Great players turn shitty OLine's into nothing, as the great players can't do shit if they get no blocking.

 

The OLine is where it all happens.

[Guest TerraTor]

what don't you understand... Great Oline's turn mediocre players (QB's and RB's) into good-great players. Great players turn shitty OLine's into nothing, as the great players can't do shit if they get no blocking.

 

The OLine is where it all happens.

 

what oline did tomlinson run behind his first couple dominant years? or walter payton for that matter.

Barry Sanders, a great RB makes his own plays

[nfoligno]

what oline did tomlinson run behind his first couple dominant years? or walter payton for that matter.

Barry Sanders, a great RB makes his own plays

 

So you are saying Mendenhall or Stewart (not sure who you like) will become LT, Payton or Sanders?

 

This sort of logic always makes me laugh. Anytime you have to use NFL legends, current or retired, to prove your point, I think your point is lost. The players you list are exceptions to the rule, not the rule. They are so freaking special they defy logic.

 

So are you honestly telling me you think Mendenhall or Stewart are the next Walter Payton Ladanian Tomlinson or Barry Sanders? Hey, maybe the next Sayers or Jim Brown?

[nfoligno]

I wouldn't touch Baker before the 3rd round.

 

Why? Very good starting LT for one of the biggest college programs there is. Not just a one year starter, but several. May never be Walter Jones, Orlando Pace level LT (ceiling just isn't that high) but could be a very good LT for many years. Not pro bowl, but a damn good starter at a key position. What is wrong w/ that?

[BearSox]

Why? Very good starting LT for one of the biggest college programs there is. Not just a one year starter, but several. May never be Walter Jones, Orlando Pace level LT (ceiling just isn't that high) but could be a very good LT for many years. Not pro bowl, but a damn good starter at a key position. What is wrong w/ that?

The only way Baker starts at LT in the pros is if he's in a ZBS. While our OLine is a slight variation of the ZBS, Baker is not physical enough to handle LT for us. He'd be a G in our system.

 

Plus, he isn't very powerful, isn't a good run blocker, and is as overhyped as they come.

[jason]

Regarding this conversation...read the signature line below.

[AZ54]

I disagree that Otah would not start at LT for us. Tait is aging and really isn't that quick anymore. If we have Otah I see no reason not to put him there and let Tait go back to his favorite spot on the right side. Tait should be able to anchor the right side in pass protection by himself. Then we can slide our protection schemes (TE/RB) more toward the left side to help out Otah.

[nfoligno]

I definitely think Otah has the potential to play LT, but feel it is his lack of experience that will start him out on the Right side. He didn't play football until his senior year of HS, and then only two years in college. It is that lack of football experience and knowledge that would make him a liability on the left side his rookie year. Let Tait play on the left one more year while Otah gets his feet wet, then look at the transition.