Peter King comments on us not going QB...

[nfoligno]

Fine, but that only strengthens the point of the original post which started this thread. Then we only have one QB on the roster, and that is a 5 year failed project, thus all the more reason we should have drafted a QB.

 

I still disagree on Orton. I am not saying he is worth shit. I am saying we have not seen enough to know whether he is "the shit" or just plain shit. Not sure why you have an issue w/ the idea of letting him compete in camp. Either he proves you wrong, which you should be hoping for, or he proves you write. No hard, no foul.

 

But again, if Orton is shit, as you say, then it only strengthens the argument we should have drafted Brohm.

[madlithuanian]

nfo, you are correct, that was what I was basically saying.

 

I think he is saying we have seen mor of Rex to make a judgment, while Orton is still more of an unknown, and therefor, could be more than what some believe.

 

I don't believe he ever said Orton was a stud. Only that he believes Rex is a dud, and Orton may not be.

[bear trap]

No offense, but Orton wouldn't even be a starter on most teams.

 

People talk smack about Rex. Yet, think Orton is so damn good.

 

I swear the hate Rex gets and all the drooling for the great Kyle Orton is a joke.

 

Orton= The most overrated Bears player on this board!

 

No one's overrating Kyle, everyone's sick of seeing rex hand the other team the ball 3-6 times a game. Sure Kyle may not put up peyton manning numbers, but at least he's not giving it right back to the other team on a regular basis. Oh and by the way rex isn't really putting up big numbers too. Especially for someone who's had most if not all the snaps in training camp with the first unit. How can you expect orton to go out there without a start for a year and play lights out? You take a year off from throwing passes with the first unit and see if you come back with no rust! I've seen too much of rex's bad rex games to be excited seeing him behind center again. Yet whenever the organization realizes rex is a moron they try and throw orton out there with minimal practice time and little options with the playcalling. It's like the coaching staff wants kyle out there playing with handcuffs on. The real reason rex got the starters job last year isn't b/c he played better in camp, but b/c JA spent a first rounder on him and refuses to cut ties. Rex had his shot, now Orton should start and get majority of the snaps with the first unit. If he stumbles we let rex retry, but that would mean JA and Lovie would have to get over their man-crush on rex which won't happen till week 4-6 after rex throws his 12th int of the year and botched the snap for the 3rd time. Then we'll see a screwed over orton take the field with a vanilla called offensive playbook. REX IS GARBAGE THAT NO ONE WILL THROW TO THE CURB UNTIL IT STINKS THE WHOLE HOUSE UP!

[madlithuanian]

No offense taken...

 

The drool is nothing new for Chciago. Given the horrid parade of so-called QB's that have started for Chicago since Jim McMahon, the 2nd stringer is always looked at as a svior. However in Orton's case, he has found some succes in the past managing games and looked decent ending the season last year. That is where the "hope' srpings...

 

The hate Rex gets is also easily understandable... He is inconsitent, turnover and injury prone, shows lack of mobility and pocket presence, and is also prone to very bad decision making. While starting off well, he has only regressed and has not seemed to learn enything from his mistakes.

 

Make no mistake, I know fully well you support Rex. While I'm not quite sure why you are so positive about him, I give you your opinion. I'd love to hear a bit more on why you are so up on him...but I would imagine it's due to the handful of good games he's had, and his potential. I make no bones...I do not like him and think he is resonpnsible for holding the team hostage at the position for the last 2 years. I do not like that he took no personal responsibility for his poor play in the SB... But, he does seem like a decent hard working guy. But I want a winner.

 

I'm not sure Orton is, but I'd like to see him get a shot at it instead of seeing the same thing happen over and over again.

 

 

 

No offense, but Orton wouldn't even be a starter on most teams.

 

People talk smack about Rex. Yet, think Orton is so damn good.

 

I swear the hate Rex gets and all the drooling for the great Kyle Orton is a joke.

 

Orton= The most overrated Bears player on this board!

[chitownman]

For the newer members of this board, I will throw out my opinion once again that I keep getting crap for in regards to the lame QBs that we have.

 

In regards to Rex Grossman, I have stated emphatically for someone to name a successful NFL QB that has come out of Steve Spurrier's system? You are not able to because they have all failed at this level. (Danny Wuerful, Shane Matthews just to name two). People keep stating that Grossman has the so-called talent physically however, mentality in regards to playing the game and preparation for the game, Grossman plain out sucks period, end of discussion.

 

In regards to Orton, if you remember his senior year at Purdue, he was being touted as a Heisman Candidate and as the season went on Orton got benched. People say that he was injured however, his injuries apparently were not that severe and he just plain out sucked. The only reason he was drafted was that Ron Turner was just brought back as the OC and had coached against Orton while screwing the Illini.

 

As Peter King and some others have said, having a QB issue that does not get addressed what so ever in the draft nor free agency tells a lot as to why this team is such a mess. Do not tell me that we went to Super Bowl XLI because of Grossman being at QB. That is not the truth, we had played far better defense and had an unGodly turnover ratio. Orton did manage games well in 2005 however, he is just a so-so journeyman at best. Jerry Angelo needs to be fired for his inability to find true talent on a consistent basis and improve this team at a position that is most vital for success. Until the McCaskey family or Ted Phillips realizes that, we are bound to struggle and keep Papa Bear spinning in his grave. Don't expect too much for the 2008 season, I am not and anything better than 8-8 (which I don't even think we will be) is just icing on the cake.

[Mongo3451]

Mongo,

 

As much as I've disagreed with King over the years, not everything he says is bunk. Not drafting a QB for 3 staright years given our situation is just foolishness. It really gives credibility ot the conspiracy theory that Rex has nude pictures of Jerry and Lovie somewhere...

 

But really, to address you Brady statement. Yeah, he had a bad game. But look at his carrer! It's good game after good game. Not flashes a good games, marred by endless turnovers and snal fumbles. And yes, he has had a better line, but still even when getting mauled by the Giants, he still exuded some pocket presence and actually led his team down for the win if it weren't for Eli's amazing backatcha.

 

I think there is some hope with Kyle. He could turn into a great game manager. And later, he could turn into something more. I'd be more than OK with that. But I think Rex is done.

I have no problem with King critcizing us for drafting a QB. I have stated in other posts that was wishing for Henne, somehow. But, in no means should the Bears draft be panned for NOT drafting a QB. Past Henne and Brohm, who could have helped us in the 3rd? IMO - it's bullshit, because the Bears solidly met offensive needs with their 1st 3 picks. Plus, free agency is not done yet.

[madlithuanian]

I just disagree. We were needing the 1st 3 holes filled as you mentioned...but our biggest one wasn't! You may disagree with it, but to not know why the Bears are getting blasted for not taking a QB is foolishness. Every person that has a remote interest in pro ball knows the Bears have sucked at QB for eons. Yet, for the past 3 years we don't draft a QB. OK, you can argue this year, etc...but the bottom line is that it has not been addressed. Yet, all the while teams with generally successful passing games continue to draft QB's.

 

Granted free agency isn't done, and something can transpire.

 

But it all boils down to what people are seeing. And they are seeing a franchise flounder at QB no other in the history of the league, and not draft a QB. Getting blasted for that makes perfect sense to me.

 

I have no problem with King critcizing us for drafting a QB. I have stated in other posts that was wishing for Henne, somehow. But, in no means should the Bears draft be panned for NOT drafting a QB. Past Henne and Brohm, who could have helped us in the 3rd? IMO - it's bullshit, because the Bears solidly met offensive needs with their 1st 3 picks. Plus, free agency is not done yet.

[madlithuanian]

Great assessment chitownman!

 

For the newer members of this board, I will throw out my opinion once again that I keep getting crap for in regards to the lame QBs that we have.

 

In regards to Rex Grossman, I have stated emphatically for someone to name a successful NFL QB that has come out of Steve Spurrier's system? You are not able to because they have all failed at this level. (Danny Wuerful, Shane Matthews just to name two). People keep stating that Grossman has the so-called talent physically however, mentality in regards to playing the game and preparation for the game, Grossman plain out sucks period, end of discussion.

 

In regards to Orton, if you remember his senior year at Purdue, he was being touted as a Heisman Candidate and as the season went on Orton got benched. People say that he was injured however, his injuries apparently were not that severe and he just plain out sucked. The only reason he was drafted was that Ron Turner was just brought back as the OC and had coached against Orton while screwing the Illini.

 

As Peter King and some others have said, having a QB issue that does not get addressed what so ever in the draft nor free agency tells a lot as to why this team is such a mess. Do not tell me that we went to Super Bowl XLI because of Grossman being at QB. That is not the truth, we had played far better defense and had an unGodly turnover ratio. Orton did manage games well in 2005 however, he is just a so-so journeyman at best. Jerry Angelo needs to be fired for his inability to find true talent on a consistent basis and improve this team at a position that is most vital for success. Until the McCaskey family or Ted Phillips realizes that, we are bound to struggle and keep Papa Bear spinning in his grave. Don't expect too much for the 2008 season, I am not and anything better than 8-8 (which I don't even think we will be) is just icing on the cake.

[nfoligno]

But, in no means should the Bears draft be panned for NOT drafting a QB.

 

Why not. QB is the most important position in football. Some would argue this point, but not many. We suck at this position, and have for some time. Some would argue this point, but again, not many. We didn't draft a single QB. I easily see logic behind ripping the bears for not drafting a QB. At the same time, it a thing or two should be mentioned.

 

W/ regard to King specifically, he criticized the bears for not drafting a single QB in the last three years, not just this year.

 

Also, you talk about panning the draft, but few have done that. Most are giving us anywhere from a B- to a B+. Even fans like myself who are trashing Angelo for passing on Brohm (or pick your favorite QB) still give the draft a pretty decent grade (B- for me) based on who we took.

 

Past Henne and Brohm, who could have helped us in the 3rd?

 

Are you asking this year, or down the road. This year, I do not believe Ryan, Flacco, Brohm or Henne would have helped us. It is rare for a rookie QB to help a team, and when that does happen, you usually see (a) tremendous supporting cast ( great coaching staff and/or ( QB gifted w/ skills beyond simply throwing the ball, like a Vince Young.

 

If you are asking what QB after this top 4 could have helped us ever, I don't know. At the same time, I look at a group of other QBs who other teams felt could develop into NFL QBs. I would further throw out there, and have several times, that if we are going to take fliers on players, why not on a QB?

 

Could we not take a flier on O'Connell instead of Harrison?

Booty instead of Steltz?

 

Dixon, Johnson, Ainge, Brennen, Woodson, Flynn.... I have not a clue if any of them will turn into NFL QBs, but I would have rather taken a flier on finding a franchise QB, rather than a 3rd TE, or a 4th/5th CB, or yet another freaking DE.

 

IMO - it's bullshit, because the Bears solidly met offensive needs with their 1st 3 picks. Plus, free agency is not done yet.

 

Yes, the bears met needs w/ the 1st 3 picks, but I would argue they had far more than 3 needs on offense. Further, I would argue they could have met their needs AND obtained a QB (not to mention OG).

 

The draft is absolutely about who you get, and in that regard, we grade out pretty well, but the draft is also about needs not met. Not taking even a flier on a QB hurts, as does not grabbing an OG until the 7th round.

[nfoligno]

Something you will be happy to know. ESPN put out a mock draft for 2009 (its just about fun this early) and they have us drafting at #7, taking.....

 

7. Chicago Bears -- Tim Tebow*, QB, Florida

It's almost certain that the Bears will need a quarterback come next offseason. Unfortunately, next year's crop of signal-callers does not look promising at this point. Bears fans won't be thrilled if the team uses a high pick on another Gators quarterback following the failed Rex Grossman experiment, but Tebow's unique blend of skills and rare intangibles might be too good to pass up. Should Tebow elect to leave school early, however, his uncommon skill set could make him the most difficult prospect at any position to grade.

 

That is right, another Florida QB. Is this okay though since he isn't a Spurrier product?

 

I agree on Rex. I believe you are likely correct on Orton, though at the same time, I do feel he has earned the right to compete for a starting job. I think it was inept to pass on Brohm. I would have liked to draft Brohm and give Orton the start this year. If he fails, then the rookie can step in and begin his development.

[chitownman]

That is right, another Florida QB. Is this okay though since he isn't a Spurrier product?

 

I agree on Rex. I believe you are likely correct on Orton, though at the same time, I do feel he has earned the right to compete for a starting job. I think it was inept to pass on Brohm. I would have liked to draft Brohm and give Orton the start this year. If he fails, then the rookie can step in and begin his development.

 

 

I do not think that Tim Tebow is all that as of yet. He has a better coach IMO in Urban Meyer than he would have had in Spurrier. I think that he needs another impressive season or two (since he is a junior in the fall) and we'll see what happens. Still wonder if he has been all that, why in the World did Meyer split his time up last year as a freshman. Don't you want to put the best players out there to win the game? Tebow still has a lot to prove to me. Still not happy that he won the Heisman either. I do not think he was that deserving.

[clnr]

Tebow won't declare next year! He'll want to graduate. As of now, I'd take the kid from Ohio or Purdue. But let them play one more season until we anoint them as starting QB.

[Mongo3451]

We were needing the 1st 3 holes filled as you mentioned...but our biggest one wasn't! You may disagree with it, but to not know why the Bears are getting blasted for not taking a QB is foolishness.

Foolishness huh? How about thinking QB is our greatest need? I haven't ever disagreed more with you or anyone else who thinks QB was our greatest need going into to this draft.

Every person that has a remote interest in pro ball knows the Bears have sucked at QB for eons.

No shit.

Yet, for the past 3 years we don't draft a QB. OK, you can argue this year, etc...but the bottom line is that it has not been addressed.

Everyone thought it got addressed with Griese 2 yesrs ago. Remember when we went to the SuperBowl?

Yet, all the while teams with generally successful passing games continue to draft QB's.

Let me ask you a question. Was it bad draft because we didn't get a QB? IMO - saying yes is ignorant.

 

[balta1701-A]

Something you will be happy to know. ESPN put out a mock draft for 2009 (its just about fun this early) and they have us drafting at #7, taking.....

 

7. Chicago Bears -- Tim Tebow*, QB, Florida

It's almost certain that the Bears will need a quarterback come next offseason. Unfortunately, next year's crop of signal-callers does not look promising at this point. Bears fans won't be thrilled if the team uses a high pick on another Gators quarterback following the failed Rex Grossman experiment, but Tebow's unique blend of skills and rare intangibles might be too good to pass up. Should Tebow elect to leave school early, however, his uncommon skill set could make him the most difficult prospect at any position to grade.

 

That is right, another Florida QB. Is this okay though since he isn't a Spurrier product?

 

I agree on Rex. I believe you are likely correct on Orton, though at the same time, I do feel he has earned the right to compete for a starting job. I think it was inept to pass on Brohm. I would have liked to draft Brohm and give Orton the start this year. If he fails, then the rookie can step in and begin his development.

Here's a version from the SI universe.

18. Bears -- Demetrius Byrd, WR, LSU -- I really want to give the Bears a quarterback, but I think most of the QBs in this draft are second-rounders. Look for them to grab the best available receiver. Byrd hasn't produced yet, but has blazing 40 speed.

[madlithuanian]

Foolishness indeed. What is our greatest need over the past 3 years? OL? WR? RB? S? DL? LB? CB? TE? No! QB! It's been our biggest need for over 20 years! Ok, going into this particular draft, you could argeu OL or RB or WR...which wasn't what I was basing it on...I was referencing the King article talking about no QB's in the past 3 years. I'm glad you're happy with our QB's. You are in a vast minority of fans and pro football watchers...

 

N s$%^ indeed. So, I don't get why you have a beef with my comments...

 

OK, Griese let loose some of the pressure in drafting a QB...and as I've mentioned in other posts, we can rationalize every year we've not drafted a QB. But the fact of the matter is that we haven't. And as I and other have mentioned, even teams with QB's are still drafting them! There's probably a good reason for that since some of these teams have an actual according to hoyle passing game. Yet, we somehow should be thrilled that the Bears brain-trust knows what they're doing with QB's?

 

To answer your question, no it wasn't a bad draft because we didn't draft a QB. But it certainly is suspect. Only time will tell if it was indeed a bad draft. I think some bad moves were made, which one glaring one was a lack of QB being picked, but that alone doesn't make it bad. Picking bum players will make it bad. And we won't know that for a at least a little while. Sorry, but my Kool-aid pitcher is dry...

 

Foolishness huh? How about thinking QB is our greatest need? I haven't ever disagreed more with you or anyone else who thinks QB was our greatest need going into to this draft. No shit. Everyone thought it got addressed with Griese 2 yesrs ago. Remember when we went to the SuperBowl?

Let me ask you a question. Was it bad draft because we didn't get a QB? IMO - saying yes is ignorant.

[bear trap]

For the newer members of this board, I will throw out my opinion once again that I keep getting crap for in regards to the lame QBs that we have.

 

In regards to Rex Grossman, I have stated emphatically for someone to name a successful NFL QB that has come out of Steve Spurrier's system? You are not able to because they have all failed at this level. (Danny Wuerful, Shane Matthews just to name two). People keep stating that Grossman has the so-called talent physically however, mentality in regards to playing the game and preparation for the game, Grossman plain out sucks period, end of discussion.

 

In regards to Orton, if you remember his senior year at Purdue, he was being touted as a Heisman Candidate and as the season went on Orton got benched. People say that he was injured however, his injuries apparently were not that severe and he just plain out sucked. The only reason he was drafted was that Ron Turner was just brought back as the OC and had coached against Orton while screwing the Illini.

 

As Peter King and some others have said, having a QB issue that does not get addressed what so ever in the draft nor free agency tells a lot as to why this team is such a mess. Do not tell me that we went to Super Bowl XLI because of Grossman being at QB. That is not the truth, we had played far better defense and had an unGodly turnover ratio. Orton did manage games well in 2005 however, he is just a so-so journeyman at best. Jerry Angelo needs to be fired for his inability to find true talent on a consistent basis and improve this team at a position that is most vital for success. Until the McCaskey family or Ted Phillips realizes that, we are bound to struggle and keep Papa Bear spinning in his grave. Don't expect too much for the 2008 season, I am not and anything better than 8-8 (which I don't even think we will be) is just icing on the cake.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone can play through a sports hernia. You talk of something you know nothing about. You try throwing the ball with a tear in your abdominal muscle. Mcnabb tried and even he played differently!

[Mongo3451]

To answer your question, no it wasn't a bad draft because we didn't draft a QB. But it certainly is suspect. Only time will tell if it was indeed a bad draft. I think some bad moves were made, which one glaring one was a lack of QB being picked, but that alone doesn't make it bad. Picking bum players will make it bad. And we won't know that for a at least a little while. Sorry, but my Kool-aid pitcher is dry...

That was my whole pretense for calling BS on King. He said we were one of 3 teams he didn't like in the draft. No way were even bottom half.

[Da Bears 88]

For the newer members of this board, I will throw out my opinion once again that I keep getting crap for in regards to the lame QBs that we have.

 

In regards to Rex Grossman, I have stated emphatically for someone to name a successful NFL QB that has come out of Steve Spurrier's system? You are not able to because they have all failed at this level. (Danny Wuerful, Shane Matthews just to name two). People keep stating that Grossman has the so-called talent physically however, mentality in regards to playing the game and preparation for the game, Grossman plain out sucks period, end of discussion.

 

In regards to Orton, if you remember his senior year at Purdue, he was being touted as a Heisman Candidate and as the season went on Orton got benched. People say that he was injured however, his injuries apparently were not that severe and he just plain out sucked. The only reason he was drafted was that Ron Turner was just brought back as the OC and had coached against Orton while screwing the Illini.

 

As Peter King and some others have said, having a QB issue that does not get addressed what so ever in the draft nor free agency tells a lot as to why this team is such a mess. Do not tell me that we went to Super Bowl XLI because of Grossman being at QB. That is not the truth, we had played far better defense and had an unGodly turnover ratio. Orton did manage games well in 2005 however, he is just a so-so journeyman at best. Jerry Angelo needs to be fired for his inability to find true talent on a consistent basis and improve this team at a position that is most vital for success. Until the McCaskey family or Ted Phillips realizes that, we are bound to struggle and keep Papa Bear spinning in his grave. Don't expect too much for the 2008 season, I am not and anything better than 8-8 (which I don't even think we will be) is just icing on the cake.

Well said and i agree.

 

Yeah, I'm sure everyone can play through a sports hernia. You talk of something you know nothing about. You try throwing the ball with a tear in your abdominal muscle. Mcnabb tried and even he played differently!

[madlithuanian]

I follow your train for thought...but I still think King's argument is valid.

 

That was my whole pretense for calling BS on King. He said we were one of 3 teams he didn't like in the draft. No way were even bottom half.