Why so bent on Rex Starting?

[GrizzlyBear]

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

[selection7]

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

Well, I'm not technically one of those people but we're just used to Rex being ahead. Plus, Rex will always get more of a look being a first round pick. But no one knows, not even that new WR dude who accidentally mouthed off, or probably even JA himself. It's part of what should help make the Bears and interesting team to follow in 2008.

[bear trap]

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

Probably b/c rex is pampered by this organization, he can't get benched until he at least costs us a game or two. Good qb evaluators woulda pulled the plug on him after the 2nd game last year, but JA and Lovie are blinded by rex's excuses each time he sucked it up. I also think that orton looked pretty decent at the end of last year. Sure he may not have lit it up, then again he hasn't been given the time and patience rex has. His first year he played as a rookie and every one expected him to be a top ten qb. Then he's thrown into last year with the team's playoff contention dwindling and little reps with the first unit. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. We don't know what we have in him cause last year he only played 3 games and I would think after letting grossman have numerous seasons we should in the same right let orton have his shot. I'm not going to lie, I can't stand grossman. I've never seen a pro get babied the way that guy does. He goes out and throws multiple int's in a game and botches snaps, yet there are still people on this board who aren't willing to let someone else have a shot. Orton hasn't had a decent shot. Letting him play 3 games when we're pretty much done isn't letting him have a shot. Everyone says all orton is is a game manager, why? Because he didn't go out and throw for 300 yrds/game as a rookie, or because he didn't light it up his whole whopping 2 games last year after not starting for a year?(I'm not counting the G-Bay game because it was terrible conditions that even the almighty Farve couldn't over come). Point is that grossman is given every opportunity to succeed and orton is given his table scraps which is why everyone thinks it'll be rex again.

[Connorbear]

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

According to JA and Lovie there will be an open competitiion between the 2 this yr. I really don't care who QBs as long as they win.

 

Peace

[Zod]

I'm with Connor, in that I don't really care who will the starting QB is.

 

I think both QB's have shown they can be the starter, in the pass. We can all quote stats and make tough guy internet arguments (Kyle Vs. Rex is a very played out argument), but in the end I think the starting QB will be the player who best fits what the Bears want to do on offense.

[Iguana]

According to JA and Lovie there will be an open competitiion between the 2 this yr. I really don't care who QBs as long as they win.

 

Peace

 

 

yea....open competitions....

[Connorbear]

yea....open competitions....

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more.

 

Peace

[sprout]

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

 

 

I think many people just think that Rex will win the "open" competition. Rex is a great training camp QB. When there isn't any pressure on him he looks awesome. He has a cannon arm and can make all the throws. The only chance I think Orton has is if Rex really sucks in the preseason games.

[chitownman]

At this point with the mess that is the QB position, I think I would rather go with the former Big 10 player versus the former SEC player. All I know for sure is that our QBs still suck and will continue to suck until JA and Lovie get the heads out of their asses and realize that neither of these QBs that we have are really worth a damn. They may have potential, and one may have more than the other however, at this point and time they both still suck. Open competition is a good thing for going into the regular season at Indy however, we need a real QB to lead us in the future and until we are fortunate enough to have one, we all will have to suffer with the mess that is Da' Bears QB at this point and time.

[azbearsfan]

Probably b/c rex is pampered by this organization, he can't get benched until he at least costs us a game or two. Good qb evaluators woulda pulled the plug on him after the 2nd game last year, but JA and Lovie are blinded by rex's excuses each time he sucked it up. I also think that orton looked pretty decent at the end of last year. Sure he may not have lit it up, then again he hasn't been given the time and patience rex has. His first year he played as a rookie and every one expected him to be a top ten qb. Then he's thrown into last year with the team's playoff contention dwindling and little reps with the first unit. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. We don't know what we have in him cause last year he only played 3 games and I would think after letting grossman have numerous seasons we should in the same right let orton have his shot. I'm not going to lie, I can't stand grossman. I've never seen a pro get babied the way that guy does. He goes out and throws multiple int's in a game and botches snaps, yet there are still people on this board who aren't willing to let someone else have a shot. Orton hasn't had a decent shot. Letting him play 3 games when we're pretty much done isn't letting him have a shot. Everyone says all orton is is a game manager, why? Because he didn't go out and throw for 300 yrds/game as a rookie, or because he didn't light it up his whole whopping 2 games last year after not starting for a year?(I'm not counting the G-Bay game because it was terrible conditions that even the almighty Farve couldn't over come). Point is that grossman is given every opportunity to succeed and orton is given his table scraps which is why everyone thinks it'll be rex again.

 

I'll never get why some people will not give Rex his due. 2 seasons ago he threw 23 TD and for 3100 yds. He had two good playoff games. That is why he gets a shot. He had some terrible games that year but he also had terrific games too. At worst he is wildly inconsistent and injury prone. At best he is the player of the month.

 

And no quarterback last year was set up for success. Not with that line and running game.

 

I do agree with you on Orton though. His first year was a joke. He was totally handcuffed by the OC and thrown under the bus by Moose (I never forgave Moose for that). But looking at the games he played in last year he didn't show too much. I was surprised by his innaccurate throws that bounced off the turf.

 

I am looking forward to the battle. Hopefully the improved line and Forte will help both be better.

[Connorbear]

I'll never get why some people will not give Rex his due. 2 seasons ago he threw 23 TD and for 3100 yds. He had two good playoff games. That is why he gets a shot. He had some terrible games that year but he also had terrific games too. At worst he is wildly inconsistent and injury prone. At best he is the player of the month.

 

And no quarterback last year was set up for success. Not with that line and running game.

 

I do agree with you on Orton though. His first year was a joke. He was totally handcuffed by the OC and thrown under the bus by Moose (I never forgave Moose for that). But looking at the games he played in last year he didn't show too much. I was surprised by his innaccurate throws that bounced off the turf.

 

I am looking forward to the battle. Hopefully the improved line and Forte will help both be better.

I thought Orton looked rough against Minny but much better in the next two games. You could argue he would have had two additional TD passes (Moose drop and Olsen just out of bounds).

 

As you said, I am as well looking forward to the 'battle in Bourbonnais'.

 

Peace

[AZ54]

Everyone would have had more TD passes if Moose knew how to catch. All he was good at was blocking and Ced rarely made it to the second level to take advantage of it.

[azbearsfan]

I thought Orton looked rough against Minny but much better in the next two games. You could argue he would have had two additional TD passes (Moose drop and Olsen just out of bounds).

 

As you said, I am as well looking forward to the 'battle in Bourbonnais'.

 

Peace

 

 

lol I remember that. I think I said I was surprised that he didn't blame Orton for old times sake.

[madlithuanian]

History...

 

THis coaching/mgmt regime seems intent on giving Gorssman more chances than any human on earth...

 

I personally want Orton to start. Rex always looks spectacular in camp and Orton looks off. However, during the prssure of a game, Rex looks like a deer in headlights, and Orton looks calm.

 

I know it has been awhile for me to post, But I have a perdicament that is bothering me. At the end of last season Orton was Qb'ing the Bears, He was 2-1 as starter and the team averaged well over 25 points game. To me the team played a lot better with him in then both Rex and griese combined. Here I been reading almost all the posts of the upcomming season and most have Rex ahead Orton. Is there something you guys read somewhere or what?

[adam]

This seems to be Grossman's last chance. Either he wins the starting job, or spends one year holding a clipboard before he is out of work.

[balta1701-A]

History...

 

THis coaching/mgmt regime seems intent on giving Gorssman more chances than any human on earth...

How many chances has Grossman had where he actually was put on the line and failed? As far as I can tell, most of his problems have been injury related. Thats why he was out in 04, 05, etc. Last year was the first time he was really told that he had to show significant improvement rapidly or he'd lose his job. He lost his job after a couple games, came back in after Griese got hurt, performed fairly well IIRC, and then got hurt again. His 06 campaign he performed very well for the first half of the season and was at least decent in a couple playoff games, I think it's hard to say that he lost a chance that season. I count exactly 1 chance he was given where he failed and the team deservedly benched him.

[DrunkBomber]

They are supposed to have an open competition but I would assume Rex already has a leg up. Its pretty obvious that the coaches think hes better considering they have made him the starter when hes healthy for his whole career even when Orton was here and winning in 05. Both QBs had ups and downs last year. Grossmans second stint he did exactly what everyone has wanted him to since hes been a Bear. He played safely, and didnt lose us any games with mistakes and put us in a position to win. Orton played well the last two games but lets not forget that he looked terrible every second he was on the field before those last two games.

[madlithuanian]

I'm not quite sure what you mean regarding "put on the line and failed". He's failed numerous time. Too many to count. I can buy a few injury games...not the many bad ones Rex has had which seemd to be mostly poor decision making and making simple errors in ball handling that they teach in Pop Warner.

 

I don't fault the injury bug to his failure. Granted, it is a piece that we must consider. As a guy with a history of injury cannot be relied upon...but if her were always injured and a winner, he'd be a keeper (Jim McMahon).

 

I guess I'm still having a hard time following your argument. He had 1 chance where he failed and the team benched him? Yeah maybe. But they should have benched him numerous time before that! He deserved to get benched far more than once...

 

 

 

How many chances has Grossman had where he actually was put on the line and failed? As far as I can tell, most of his problems have been injury related. Thats why he was out in 04, 05, etc. Last year was the first time he was really told that he had to show significant improvement rapidly or he'd lose his job. He lost his job after a couple games, came back in after Griese got hurt, performed fairly well IIRC, and then got hurt again. His 06 campaign he performed very well for the first half of the season and was at least decent in a couple playoff games, I think it's hard to say that he lost a chance that season. I count exactly 1 chance he was given where he failed and the team deservedly benched him.

[balta1701-A]

I guess I'm still having a hard time following your argument. He had 1 chance where he failed and the team benched him? Yeah maybe. But they should have benched him numerous time before that! He deserved to get benched far more than once...

Ok, exactly what point in the 2006 season should they have benched him? Other than that year, he's basically been an injury casualty.

 

Here's his 2006 game log. Just looking at the QB ratings for each game, they go like this:

WEEK OPP RESULT RAT

Week 1 @GNB W 26-0 98.6

Week 2 DET W 34-7 148

Week 3 @MIN W19-16 64.9

Week 4 SEA W 37-6 100.5

Week 5 BUF W 40-7 101.2

Week 6 @ARI W24-23 10.2

Week 7 Bye

Week 8 SF W41-10 137.4

Week 9 MIA L 31-13 36.8

Week 10 @NYG W38-20 105.7

Week 11 @NYJ W 10-0 81.4

Week 12 @NE L 17-13 23.6

Week 13 MIN W23-13 1.3

Week 14 @STL W42-27 114.4

Week 15 TB W34-31(OT) 104.3

Week 16 @DET W26-21 80.4

Week 17 GNB L 26-7 0

2006 Postseason Game Log

DIVISIONAL SEA W27-24(OT) 76.9

CONFERENCE NO W 39-14 73.2

SUBERBOWL IND L 29-17 68.3

[madlithuanian]

OK...I follow now.

 

In 2006, I would find it difficult to bench just looking at those pure numbers. (Let's not forget that Mark Twain once quoted, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.") But, there were a few games that I recall him stuggling mightily and many "experts" and fans wondered whey he wasn't pulled when the downward spiral was happening... In a few of those games, the D or Hester rescued us. So, I would say, off recolection , about 3 games I would have benched him. Not premanantly, but for those rest of those particular games. He should be man enough to bounce back from a benching and come in an play hard the next game. If not, he's unworthy. He did show last year that he pretty much could do that...to at least some degree.

 

Also, throw up the 2007 numbers and it's a different story... It's one thing to look at a Super Bowl run and another to look at a losing season.

 

If you like Rex, that's your bag. I do not like him as a player. I'm over it. But I can understand whey some people want to give him yet another chance.

 

 

 

 

Ok, exactly what point in the 2006 season should they have benched him? Other than that year, he's basically been an injury casualty.

 

Here's his 2006 game log. Just looking at the QB ratings for each game, they go like this:

WEEK OPP RESULT RAT

Week 1 @GNB W 26-0 98.6

Week 2 DET W 34-7 148

Week 3 @MIN W19-16 64.9

Week 4 SEA W 37-6 100.5

Week 5 BUF W 40-7 101.2

Week 6 @ARI W24-23 10.2

Week 7 Bye

Week 8 SF W41-10 137.4

Week 9 MIA L 31-13 36.8

Week 10 @NYG W38-20 105.7

Week 11 @NYJ W 10-0 81.4

Week 12 @NE L 17-13 23.6

Week 13 MIN W23-13 1.3

Week 14 @STL W42-27 114.4

Week 15 TB W34-31(OT) 104.3

Week 16 @DET W26-21 80.4

Week 17 GNB L 26-7 0

2006 Postseason Game Log

DIVISIONAL SEA W27-24(OT) 76.9

CONFERENCE NO W 39-14 73.2

SUBERBOWL IND L 29-17 68.3

[adam]

Orton played well the last two games but lets not forget that he looked terrible every second he was on the field before those last two games.

Orton only played in 3 games?

 

The first game, he didn't play very well, but we had the lead going into the 4th quarter. Also, our leading rusher for that game (AP) had 26 yards.

 

What I can't understand is how Orton only gets sacked 2 times in 3 games, yet Grossman gets sacked 25 times in 7 games? There is something grossly wrong there.

 

 

Grossman is just very inconsistent, and when you take all the injuries into account, its pretty amazing that he is still in the NFL. If he could do what he did during the couple of games before he was injured again (shocker), then that would be enough for the Bears to make a serious run.

[adam]

Ok, exactly what point in the 2006 season should they have benched him? Other than that year, he's basically been an injury casualty.

You can make a case for Week 14. In Week 11, even with a decent QB Rating, he only threw for 119 yards (1 play accounted for 57 of those yards). So he was basically a non-factor because the Defense pitched a shutout. We won so it didn't matter.

 

In Week 12 he regressed with 3 INTs, 0 TDs, and a fumble in a loss to the Patriots.

 

Then in Week 13, he hit rock bottom (unless you count the Arizona game). Rex throws 3 INTs and for only 34 yards with a 1.3 QB Rating. He only had 6 completions. Even with that type of performance, he was bailed out by RMJ and Hester. He didn't get benched because Lovie did not want to mess with a team that was 10-2. In hindsight, it was actually a good move because we ended up 13-3 and got to the SB. Would a QB change have made a difference? I highly doubt it.

[madlithuanian]

But maybe a QB would have made a difference...

 

What if Kyle got in and made few mistakes... Rex really was never asked to win any game towards the end. We usually got a quick lead from the D, ST or running game and that was it. Kyle could have done the same...and maybe not turned the ball over so often in the SB... Hindsight is always 20-20, but given that we know we lost the game with Rex, I'd have liked to have a "What If" Kyle played instead...

 

You can make a case for Week 14. In Week 11, even with a decent QB Rating, he only threw for 119 yards (1 play accounted for 57 of those yards). So he was basically a non-factor because the Defense pitched a shutout. We won so it didn't matter.

 

In Week 12 he regressed with 3 INTs, 0 TDs, and a fumble in a loss to the Patriots.

 

Then in Week 13, he hit rock bottom (unless you count the Arizona game). Rex throws 3 INTs and for only 34 yards with a 1.3 QB Rating. He only had 6 completions. Even with that type of performance, he was bailed out by RMJ and Hester. He didn't get benched because Lovie did not want to mess with a team that was 10-2. In hindsight, it was actually a good move because we ended up 13-3 and got to the SB. Would a QB change have made a difference? I highly doubt it.

[azbearsfan]

You can make a case for Week 14. In Week 11, even with a decent QB Rating, he only threw for 119 yards (1 play accounted for 57 of those yards). So he was basically a non-factor because the Defense pitched a shutout. We won so it didn't matter.

 

In Week 12 he regressed with 3 INTs, 0 TDs, and a fumble in a loss to the Patriots.

 

Then in Week 13, he hit rock bottom (unless you count the Arizona game). Rex throws 3 INTs and for only 34 yards with a 1.3 QB Rating. He only had 6 completions. Even with that type of performance, he was bailed out by RMJ and Hester. He didn't get benched because Lovie did not want to mess with a team that was 10-2. In hindsight, it was actually a good move because we ended up 13-3 and got to the SB. Would a QB change have made a difference? I highly doubt it.

 

 

Yeah but that was his first full year starting due to injury, he is on a team with a good record. You dont bench him, you let him work through it. Which he did looking at his ratings for the next three games. Then he lays an egg the last game of the year and has two solid game in the playoffs en route to the Super Bowl.

 

I'm not saying that he is All Pro, but to blame all the bad stuff from 2006 on him and not give him props for when he did well is incredibly short sighted.

 

At the very least, he deserves a shot to compete.

[balta1701-A]

OK...I follow now.

 

In 2006, I would find it difficult to bench just looking at those pure numbers. (Let's not forget that Mark Twain once quoted, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.") But, there were a few games that I recall him stuggling mightily and many "experts" and fans wondered whey he wasn't pulled when the downward spiral was happening... In a few of those games, the D or Hester rescued us. So, I would say, off recolection , about 3 games I would have benched him. Not premanantly, but for those rest of those particular games. He should be man enough to bounce back from a benching and come in an play hard the next game. If not, he's unworthy. He did show last year that he pretty much could do that...to at least some degree.

 

Also, throw up the 2007 numbers and it's a different story... It's one thing to look at a Super Bowl run and another to look at a losing season.

 

If you like Rex, that's your bag. I do not like him as a player. I'm over it. But I can understand whey some people want to give him yet another chance.

And, in 2007...Rex got exactly what he deserved. After 06, his first full season as a starter, he was given a couple games to show he'd grown, and when he failed to do so and started out poorly, he was benched and put as 2nd string. If the team had performed under Griese and he'd stayed healthy, there was no reason to play him again. Fortunately for him, Griese got hurt, so he got a second chance just based on luck...and when he got that chance, he wasn't Peyton Manning, but he wasn't Rex Grossman bad. First 3 games, 1 TD, 6 INT's. Second 4 games pre injury, 3 TD, 1 INT (playing with a disastrous O-line BTW).

 

Those last few games are good enough given the circumstances that he at least deserves an open competition for the spot, I'd say. On that you can disagree if you feel, but I think it's worth it.