jason Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 How many chances has Grossman had where he actually was put on the line and failed? As far as I can tell, most of his problems have been injury related. Thats why he was out in 04, 05, etc. Last year was the first time he was really told that he had to show significant improvement rapidly or he'd lose his job. He lost his job after a couple games, came back in after Griese got hurt, performed fairly well IIRC, and then got hurt again. His 06 campaign he performed very well for the first half of the season and was at least decent in a couple playoff games, I think it's hard to say that he lost a chance that season. I count exactly 1 chance he was given where he failed and the team deservedly benched him. I sure as hell hope you are counting the Super Bowl in your count of "exactly 1 chance he was given where he failed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Yeah but that was his first full year starting due to injury, he is on a team with a good record. You dont bench him, you let him work through it. Which he did looking at his ratings for the next three games. Then he lays an egg the last game of the year and has two solid game in the playoffs en route to the Super Bowl. I'm not saying that he is All Pro, but to blame all the bad stuff from 2006 on him and not give him props for when he did well is incredibly short sighted. At the very least, he deserves a shot to compete. We can hem and haw all we want to, but the bottom line is that Rex IS getting another shot. He's got a one year deal and he need to take advantage of it. I'm pulling for him, but I also agree with ConnerBear that any QB will do for me as long as we win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Orton only played in 3 games? The first game, he didn't play very well, but we had the lead going into the 4th quarter. Also, our leading rusher for that game (AP) had 26 yards. What I can't understand is how Orton only gets sacked 2 times in 3 games, yet Grossman gets sacked 25 times in 7 games? There is something grossly wrong there. Grossman is just very inconsistent, and when you take all the injuries into account, its pretty amazing that he is still in the NFL. If he could do what he did during the couple of games before he was injured again (shocker), then that would be enough for the Bears to make a serious run. Ya youre right. I dont know why but I thought he was the one who came in against Washington because I just remembered Orton playing and it being a close game in the 4th and me actually wanting Griese to come in because I thought he could finish better than Orton. That must have been the end of the Minnesota game then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Rex almost got what he deserved...he still got coddled. He should have been benched far sooner than he was. Even if you subscribe to the theory that he did really well after the benching, what harm would there have been if he were benched sooner? Could we have not salvaged a few more victories? I'm OK if it were truly an open competition, but I stand by my many comments that this "so called" competition is a farce and Grossman will again be given the job. Honestly, neither guy is taking us anywhere. But I feel like I've not seen Kyle be given the opportunity Rex has been given countless times. It would seem only equitable to do so. After all his winning percentage is probably as good, if not better than Rex's. And, in 2007...Rex got exactly what he deserved. After 06, his first full season as a starter, he was given a couple games to show he'd grown, and when he failed to do so and started out poorly, he was benched and put as 2nd string. If the team had performed under Griese and he'd stayed healthy, there was no reason to play him again. Fortunately for him, Griese got hurt, so he got a second chance just based on luck...and when he got that chance, he wasn't Peyton Manning, but he wasn't Rex Grossman bad. First 3 games, 1 TD, 6 INT's. Second 4 games pre injury, 3 TD, 1 INT (playing with a disastrous O-line BTW). Those last few games are good enough given the circumstances that he at least deserves an open competition for the spot, I'd say. On that you can disagree if you feel, but I think it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Rex almost got what he deserved...he still got coddled. He should have been benched far sooner than he was. Even if you subscribe to the theory that he did really well after the benching, what harm would there have been if he were benched sooner? Could we have not salvaged a few more victories? I'm OK if it were truly an open competition, but I stand by my many comments that this "so called" competition is a farce and Grossman will again be given the job. Honestly, neither guy is taking us anywhere. But I feel like I've not seen Kyle be given the opportunity Rex has been given countless times. It would seem only equitable to do so. After all his winning percentage is probably as good, if not better than Rex's. If the "good" Rex from 2006 comes in, then theres no question who the better QB is and who deserves to start. If the bad Rex comes in, then yes we give Orton the reins. Orton wasn't horrible, but wasn't spectacular either. I'd love to see Orton come in and win the job, but he has to show that he can carry the team. Rex has showed that, and as much as you see the bad Rex, I keep seeing the good Rex and I haven't seen that from Orton yet. It's the whole higher ceiling/lower floor situation. I would be tickled to death if Kyle Orton's light switched on and he became the Bears QB for the future , I have nothing against him. This will always be the debate in newspapers, blogs, forums, etc. I don't care who the Bears QB is as long as the best player in behind center. Thats the way I believe the Bears see it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 I'll be honest...I think the good Rex is a myth. He looked great for a minutes...got figured out, and now is in the realm of being a small Tim Couch. But I understand the thought process behnd the "good Rex" thinking. I just don't believe we will see it. I'm not thrilled with Orton either. But I'd like to at least give the kid a legit shot at it. I like your thinking of best player should play...but I don't trust our coaching staff to make that decision unfortunately. If the "good" Rex from 2006 comes in, then theres no question who the better QB is and who deserves to start. If the bad Rex comes in, then yes we give Orton the reins. Orton wasn't horrible, but wasn't spectacular either. I'd love to see Orton come in and win the job, but he has to show that he can carry the team. Rex has showed that, and as much as you see the bad Rex, I keep seeing the good Rex and I haven't seen that from Orton yet. It's the whole higher ceiling/lower floor situation. I would be tickled to death if Kyle Orton's light switched on and he became the Bears QB for the future , I have nothing against him. This will always be the debate in newspapers, blogs, forums, etc. I don't care who the Bears QB is as long as the best player in behind center. Thats the way I believe the Bears see it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted May 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 If the "good" Rex from 2006 comes in, then theres no question who the better QB is and who deserves to start. If the bad Rex comes in, then yes we give Orton the reins. Orton wasn't horrible, but wasn't spectacular either. I'd love to see Orton come in and win the job, but he has to show that he can carry the team. Rex has showed that, and as much as you see the bad Rex, I keep seeing the good Rex and I haven't seen that from Orton yet. It's the whole higher ceiling/lower floor situation. I would be tickled to death if Kyle Orton's light switched on and he became the Bears QB for the future , I have nothing against him. This will always be the debate in newspapers, blogs, forums, etc. I don't care who the Bears QB is as long as the best player in behind center. Thats the way I believe the Bears see it also. Didnt Orton as a Rookie lead the Bears to a good enough season to realize he can carry a team? With all the knocks against him of never being under Center, was a system QB, blah b;ah, he never lit it up, but he managed the game better then I expected and showed glimpses of some real good play. There are QB's in the HOF that can not say the sme of thier rookie year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Didnt Orton as a Rookie lead the Bears to a good enough season to realize he can carry a team? With all the knocks against him of never being under Center, was a system QB, blah b;ah, he never lit it up, but he managed the game better then I expected and showed glimpses of some real good play. There are QB's in the HOF that can not say the sme of thier rookie year. Yeah but most of Orton's "managing" was due to conservative play calling. I like Orton but honestly he hasn't shown much. And I was concerned that he showed less accuracy than Rex. I mean he has been in the league for three years and he bounces balls to receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Less accuracy than Rex? How do you account for Rex's larger total of pics? At least Kyle hits the ball into the dirt, not into the other team's hands. Yeah but most of Orton's "managing" was due to conservative play calling. I like Orton but honestly he hasn't shown much. And I was concerned that he showed less accuracy than Rex. I mean he has been in the league for three years and he bounces balls to receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Less accuracy than Rex? How do you account for Rex's larger total of pics? At least Kyle hits the ball into the dirt, not into the other team's hands. lol Probably the 450 more attempts than Kyle. Kyle has roughly half the attempts of Rex. So if we double Kyles totals he projects to 24 tds and 30 picks. Rex has 31td's and 33ints. Rex has 56 sacks. Double Kyle's totals and its 64. Kyle's career rating, completion percent, and ypa are all lower than Rex's. Again I like Orton too, but trying to say he is much better than Rex is not backed up at all. Not by stats or my own observations. Its just another example of hating on rex just to hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Less accuracy than Rex? How do you account for Rex's larger total of pics? At least Kyle hits the ball into the dirt, not into the other team's hands. Rex's accuracy wasnt really one of his bigger problems it was making too many risky throws. If anything, he has shown he can be pretty accurate if he is making smart throws. He also throws one of the most accurate deep balls youll see in the NFL today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm glad you got a chuckle. Did you laugh it up when Rex was throwing pic's left and right last season and in the Super Bowl? I'm uncertain fo the exacts of your stats...but assuming you're right, did Orton's picks cause game changing TO's or were they just errors when we already were winning? I don't hate on Rex for the sheer joy of it. I do not like him because I do not feel he is an NFL calibur QB. He hinders this team. His inconsistency is not something that this team can handle. We need better. I know the beast that is Rex. We still don't know enough about Kyle. Can we give the kid a chance? lol Probably the 450 more attempts than Kyle. Kyle has roughly half the attempts of Rex. So if we double Kyles totals he projects to 24 tds and 30 picks. Rex has 31td's and 33ints. Rex has 56 sacks. Double Kyle's totals and its 64. Kyle's career rating, completion percent, and ypa are all lower than Rex's. Again I like Orton too, but trying to say he is much better than Rex is not backed up at all. Not by stats or my own observations. Its just another example of hating on rex just to hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Excellent! THen we should be able to trade him to Al Davis! Rex's accuracy wasnt really one of his bigger problems it was making too many risky throws. If anything, he has shown he can be pretty accurate if he is making smart throws. He also throws one of the most accurate deep balls youll see in the NFL today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm glad you got a chuckle. Did you laugh it up when Rex was throwing pic's left and right last season and in the Super Bowl? I'm uncertain fo the exacts of your stats...but assuming you're right, did Orton's picks cause game changing TO's or were they just errors when we already were winning? I don't hate on Rex for the sheer joy of it. I do not like him because I do not feel he is an NFL calibur QB. He hinders this team. His inconsistency is not something that this team can handle. We need better. I know the beast that is Rex. We still don't know enough about Kyle. Can we give the kid a chance? I got the stats from ESPN.com. And no I didn't laugh when Rex threw picks, or when Kyle bounced passes, or when our line couldn't pick up blitzes, or when our RB were getting hit in the backfield, etc. I'm not saying Rex is such a great qb, but Kyle is not much better if at all. They both need to show something this year or get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I understand... However, I personally have seen enough of Rex. I've seen not enough of Orton. I want to see that. Then, cut bait with who we need to... I got the stats from ESPN.com. And no I didn't laugh when Rex threw picks, or when Kyle bounced passes, or when our line couldn't pick up blitzes, or when our RB were getting hit in the backfield, etc. I'm not saying Rex is such a great qb, but Kyle is not much better if at all. They both need to show something this year or get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I understand... However, I personally have seen enough of Rex. I've seen not enough of Orton. I want to see that. Then, cut bait with who we need to... Fair enough again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Fair enough again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubbiesFan07 Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 I will take either of them anyday over the mcnown/matthews/jimmiller trio we had back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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