Hub Arkush on Benson being out of shape

[bradjock]

It could easily have been as simple as them handing him the playbooks and telling him to learn both because you never know where you'll be needed.

 

I think he was considered a FS out of college with questions about his speed. But, it was genarally thought that his instincts and playmaking ability would still place him in the FS skill-set.

 

Amen to the 1st. On the 2nd, I think they were looking for a place DM didn't suck.

 

Is there THAT big of a difference between SS & FS??? You're forgetting that we want Kevin Payne to take Ayanbadejo's spot on special teams. If that's the case, that leaves the SS spot between Steltz & McGowan. But the talk of moving Steltz to FS, could indicate we'd think about that when Mike Brown gets hurt.

 

Man D Manning must suck. I could have sworn he'd be a pro-bowler by now. With his speed, and all the weapons around him on defense, he should be thriving.

[nfoligno]

Is there THAT big of a difference between SS & FS???

 

Here is how I have always viewed that question, as it has come up a lot. IMHO, on paper, there may not be a great difference, but in reality, there is. I think if Lovie built his ideal team, he would have a pair of safeties that may well be interchangable, but that is based on finding ideal players. I would argue Mike Brown could be an example of the ideal. If you have two Mike Browns, then you can easily say the two positions are interchangable. But the reality is, safeties like Mike Brown are rare.

 

For years I have listened to Lovie say this, and I have always called BS. Finding a safety that is as solid in deep coverage as he is in run support is simply rare.

 

You're forgetting that we want Kevin Payne to take Ayanbadejo's spot on special teams. If that's the case, that leaves the SS spot between Steltz & McGowan. But the talk of moving Steltz to FS, could indicate we'd think about that when Mike Brown gets hurt.

 

I had not read that, and would be disappointed if we did not give Payne a very legit shot at SS. He is a hell of an athlete. Still, even if we do talk about him replacing BA on teams, I think he would still be in the competition, and if proves the best, I do not think the staff wanting him on teams would get in the way.

 

Man D Manning must suck. I could have sworn he'd be a pro-bowler by now. With his speed, and all the weapons around him on defense, he should be thriving.

 

Hated the pick then and now.

[nfoligno]

Benson might have the potential to be a better runner, but he also has more potential to just fall down. AP has more drive and gives more of a push to get up the pile. You might think CB is a better blocker, but the coaching staff doesn't. I'll take their word for it. I swear you're on Cedric bandwagon just to play devil's advocate.

 

I do love the role of devils advocate, but no, that is not it. I was ripping AP during the season for his blocking. I am NOT saying Benson is a good blocker. He and AP are opposites. AP has the knowledge. He picks up the right man, but fails to actually make the block. Benson does not always pick up the right man, but is excellent when he does engage.

 

As for taking the staffs word for it, since when do you simply follow the staffs word. If you did, you would think Daniel Manning was due for the pro bowl.

 

You're arguing against yourself. We didn't draft Harrison to replace Dusty or Harris, we drafted him to replace the other defensive tackle who played with Philly, that we acquired from Buffalo, and just signed with Carolina (How can I remember all that and not his damn name!!!)

 

Angelo flat out said he is looking for Harrison to be a starter. Dusty began the year as our starter, so it sounds like he is looking to replace Dusty. Big picture. Dusty has been injured his only two years, and Harris is in his final contract year. Whatever is said, I think Harrison was brought in w/ the future of both Dusty and Harris being is question.

 

We drafted Steltz to replace Arch & possibly D Manning. You just mentioned two players we drafted specifically to take the place of 2 guys we already had.

 

Arch would have likely entered the season as the #3 safety. We did not draft Steltz to be our #3 SS.

 

We drafted Forte even sooner which means he REALLY doesn't like Cedric.

 

I think you don't like Benson. I am not sure it is as simple for the staff as like/dislike. I think it is simply an issue of trust and injury. RB is a key position, and the staff has simply said we can not afford to trust Benson, at least not w/o a backup plan in place.

 

More importantly, do you think we'll carry 4 running-backs on the 53 man roster? There's no way in hell that happens IMO. Last year I believe we started the season with 5 safeties (Arch, Brown, McGowan, Payne, Manning) and 5 defensive tackles, (Adams, Harris, Dusty, the guy I can't remember, & Idonije.) Replace Arch with Steltz & what's his freak with Harrison. (We cut ties with Oshinowo today which further convinces me we're set at the spot.)

 

Actually, I have said for some time we would not keep 4 RBs. I simply look at it this way. If Benson steps up, then AP or Wolfe are in trouble. If Benson fails, then we have our 3.

 

There's speculation we'll keep AP as a special teams ace, but I don't believe it. He's a lock to make the roster. We're talking about starting Forte. That leaves that 3rd spot between our 3rd rounder Wolfe, and the drunken boater who cried to his mommy over the weekend.

 

We "talked" about starting Benson, and it didn't happen. By your logic, should we have cut TJ?

 

I disagree AP is a lock. I am sure Lovie would like to keep him, but if Benson steps up, then IMHO, AP has no role as a RB on the team. Then the staff has to decide if they want to keep him as a specialist, or cut him.

 

IMHO, we go into camp, and the only person who is a lock is Forte, though not the lock to start some would like to believe. If Benson does step up, I think he starts, Forte plays plenty, and then you have a battle between AP and Wolfe.

 

I am sorry, but I simply do not see the reason to keep both.

 

Sure Angelo's pissed with the entire offense, but during his "state of the union address" the only thing he promised was to bring in competition at running back. Heck, Jamal Charles & some other quality running backs were available in round 3. He didn't just want competition he wanted a replacement. You don't draft "competition" high in the 2nd round.

JA seemed happy enough with his QB's & offensive line after we drafted Williams.

 

I simply disagree. In his state of the union, he flat out called out the OL too.

 

You say he was happy enough w/ his QB and OL, but Angelo has said many times now he was not impressed w/ this years class of QB, which lends the impression it isn't confidence in who we have, but a lack of confidence in who was available. May be the same at OG.

 

As for the 2nd rounder being replacement and not competition, who was our 2nd round pick last year? Bazuin. Was he supposed to replace Wale, Brown or Anderson? How about Daniel Manning? Replacement for Brown, or insurance? Bradley the year before. Replacement for Berrian/Moose, or competition?

 

IMO we wait & see what "Bust Benson" does in TC. If he continues to suck, he gone.

 

Tha is what I have said all along. If Benson doesn't step up in camp, he is gone. End of story. But I simply do not see the point in cutting him now. We need more than 3 RBs going into camp, so there is simply no point in cutting him.

 

Final point. Does Benson have any value in trade today? No. Even if we do not like him, if he can show something in camp, and we still want him gone to clear the way for Forte, his value could go up. May not happen, but his value can't go down.

[bradjock]

As for taking the staffs word for it, since when do you simply follow the staffs word. If you did, you would think Daniel Manning was due for the pro bowl.

 

I don't automatically take there word for it, but I believe they have their reasons for not wanting him out there in blocking situations.

 

Angelo flat out said he is looking for Harrison to be a starter. Dusty began the year as our starter, so it sounds like he is looking to replace Dusty. Big picture. Dusty has been injured his only two years, and Harris is in his final contract year. Whatever is said, I think Harrison was brought in w/ the future of both Dusty and Harris being is question.

 

Wasn't this more of a generalization that he was hoping to draft 4 or 5 starters in this draft? What GM wouldn't say that? He didn't specifically say this year. If someone asked if he hoped Harrison would go to the pro-bowl this year, I'm sure he'd say yes. That doesn't mean much.

 

Arch would have likely entered the season as the #3 safety. We did not draft Steltz to be our #3 SS.

 

True, but if Steltz isn't impressive, he will be the #3 safety. This staff has been extremely reluctant to start rookies and have done so only when needed. It blows my mind we're expecting Williams to start right away.

 

I think you don't like Benson. I am not sure it is as simple for the staff as like/dislike. I think it is simply an issue of trust and injury. RB is a key position, and the staff has simply said we can not afford to trust Benson, at least not w/o a backup plan in place.

I don't like Benson, but they always say you can find good running-backs in later rounds. The fact we drafted Forte in round 2 shows our desperation.

 

Actually, I have said for some time we would not keep 4 RBs. I simply look at it this way. If Benson steps up, then AP or Wolfe are in trouble. If Benson fails, then we have our 3.

AP ain't going nowhere. He's too valuable on special teams.

 

We "talked" about starting Benson, and it didn't happen. By your logic, should we have cut TJ?

 

What are you talking about? Benson didn't deserve to start. He's never deserved to start. Our mistake was giving him a chance.

I disagree AP is a lock. I am sure Lovie would like to keep him, but if Benson steps up, then IMHO, AP has no role as a RB on the team. Then the staff has to decide if they want to keep him as a specialist, or cut him.

IMHO, we go into camp, and the only person who is a lock is Forte, though not the lock to start some would like to believe. If Benson does step up, I think he starts, Forte plays plenty, and then you have a battle between AP and Wolfe.

I am sorry, but I simply do not see the reason to keep both.

 

AP is an average #2 running back, and a great #3 since he can do so many things. He might be our best special teams guy, he caught 51 passes, he never gets hurt, and he's cheap. His rushing average was the same as Bensons. He's the better player period.

 

As for the 2nd rounder being replacement and not competition, who was our 2nd round pick last year? Bazuin. Was he supposed to replace Wale, Brown or Anderson? How about Daniel Manning? Replacement for Brown, or insurance? Bradley the year before. Replacement for Berrian/Moose, or competition?

 

Did we ever pimp any of those guys as a potential starter the way we're pimping Forte? Hell no. We never drafted Danieal Manning to replace Mike Brown, we drafted him to replace Chris Brown, the guy he replaced week 3 vs. Detroit his rookie year. There was little doubt that Manning would eventually be the starting FS, and he quickly became so. Bradley was always touted as a "project." Bazuin was also a project since Alex Brown was unhappy & Wale had underachieved.

 

I'll be surprised if Forte is not starting very early on.

 

Final point. Does Benson have any value in trade today? No. Even if we do not like him, if he can show something in camp, and we still want him gone to clear the way for Forte, his value could go up. May not happen, but his value can't go down.

 

Mike Williams--4 rounder to Oakland

Troy Williamson--4th rounder to Jacksonville

PacMan--4th rounder to Dallas

 

With that group of turds, you'd think Cedric would be worth something to some stupid team.

[nfoligno]

I'm done. Bradj, I have enjoyed debated w/ you for some time, but you don't seem to care about anything at this point but ripping Benson.

 

He has not lived up to expectations (understatement alert) but the hatred you are showing is unusual. What the hell. IMHO, Rex has been just as big of a disappointment, and I would argue has hurt this team more than Benson. We have had plenty of busts, and plenty of failed FAs, but I don't think I have ever seen you direct so much hate toward a player.

 

So enjoy your Benson bashing. I'll leave you too it.

[Connorbear]

I disagree AP is a lock. I am sure Lovie would like to keep him, but if Benson steps up, then IMHO, AP has no role as a RB on the team. Then the staff has to decide if they want to keep him as a specialist, or cut him.

 

IMHO, we go into camp, and the only person who is a lock is Forte, though not the lock to start some would like to believe. If Benson does step up, I think he starts, Forte plays plenty, and then you have a battle between AP and Wolfe.

 

I am sorry, but I simply do not see the reason to keep both.

So you think they would keep Lousaka Poilite (2nd string FB or equivalent) over AP or Wolfe? No. They will go with 4 RB and 1 FB if Benson looks competitive at all.

 

Peace:dabears

[Connorbear]

Mike Williams--4 rounder to Oakland

Troy Williamson--4th rounder to Jacksonville

PacMan--4th rounder to Dallas

 

With that group of turds, you'd think Cedric would be worth something to some stupid team.

The one huge difference is Benson had a serious injury. We will be lucky to get a warm bucket of spit for him.

 

Peace

[bradjock]

So you think they would keep Lousaka Poilite (2nd string FB or equivalent) over AP or Wolfe? No. They will go with 4 RB and 1 FB if Benson looks competitive at all.

 

Peace:dabears

 

I have to disagree. Ever since Ron Turner's returned, we've carried 2 FB's on the 53 man roster, always keeping the #2 inactive on game day. Now that John Gilmore is gone, doesn't it make having a full-back who lead blocks even more important? (That's assuming we keep the TE we drafted in the 5th round, who's name escapes me, as our 3rd TE. He seems to be more of a receiver then a blocker.)

 

Of course if Wolfe, Forte, or AP get hurt, it could decide that.

[bradjock]

The one huge difference is Benson had a serious injury. We will be lucky to get a warm bucket of spit for him.

 

Peace

 

I agree, but I'm still shocked that Jacksonville gave a 4th for Williamson, and even more shocked that Dallas gave a 4th for Pac-Man. That is flat out nuts on both parts.

[DrunkBomber]

If Benson is healthy and out of trouble, Wolfe should absolutely be the odd man out. My guess would be we would go with one fullback unless theres an injury though.

[bradjock]

I'm done. Bradj, I have enjoyed debated w/ you for some time, but you don't seem to care about anything at this point but ripping Benson.

 

He has not lived up to expectations (understatement alert) but the hatred you are showing is unusual. What the hell. IMHO, Rex has been just as big of a disappointment, and I would argue has hurt this team more than Benson. We have had plenty of busts, and plenty of failed FAs, but I don't think I have ever seen you direct so much hate toward a player.

 

So enjoy your Benson bashing. I'll leave you too it.

 

I'll try to explain why I loathe the player right now, and then I'll happily drop it. The difference between Rex & Cedric is that Rex at least gives the impression that he cares. That's the minimum I ask from any Bear: At least PRETEND like you care. Cedric is a "Me-first" guy. From his crying on draft day because he was misunderstood, to "I can't play because I have my future to worry about," to his complaining that his teammates treated him unfairly, to most recently he says he doesn't have anything to prove. I'm sure other players think this way, but know better then to say it to the media.

 

Honestly, this whole police episode seems like just one more episode of "poor me, poor Cedric." (Just for the record, I think both sides are telling the truth. Cedric was drunk/stoned, belligerent & mouthy, and then the police used excessive force . . . IMO both parties screwed up. Good luck to that jury.)

 

Heck, I'd be happy if we didn't hear Cedric's name again until the end of July.

[Connorbear]

I have to disagree. Ever since Ron Turner's returned, we've carried 2 FB's on the 53 man roster, always keeping the #2 inactive on game day. Now that John Gilmore is gone, doesn't it make having a full-back who lead blocks even more important? (That's assuming we keep the TE we drafted in the 5th round, who's name escapes me, as our 3rd TE. He seems to be more of a receiver then a blocker.)

 

Of course if Wolfe, Forte, or AP get hurt, it could decide that.

What impact has that 2nd fullback had???? Hell, Wolfe had 5 special team tackles last yr. I am not sure Poulite had one. I would also think more from an upside perspective you keep Wolfe. Hell, you can keep a FB on the practice squad if necessary (most of the time they are drafted late or are undrafted). If we cut Wolfe or try to put him on the practice squad he is gone.

 

Peace

[bradjock]

What impact has that 2nd fullback had???? Hell, Wolfe had 5 special team tackles last yr. I am not sure Poulite had one. I would also think more from an upside perspective you keep Wolfe. Hell, you can keep a FB on the practice squad if necessary (most of the time they are drafted late or are undrafted). If we cut Wolfe or try to put him on the practice squad he is gone.

 

Peace

 

I can't argue that the 2nd fullback spot is a waste. But yet we typically keep one on the 53 man roster. I could be wrong, but I just figure we'll continue having that guy.

 

In 3rd and short situations, don't you REALLY need that guy who plows the way for the running-back? Or at least acts like a decoy?

[Bears4Ever_34]

Hmm, I always thought Cedric was a little to big. I think he should shed a few pounds and get back to his playing weight at Texas where he could atleast cut and maneuver a little easier.

[Connorbear]

I can't argue that the 2nd fullback spot is a waste. But yet we typically keep one on the 53 man roster. I could be wrong, but I just figure we'll continue having that guy.

 

In 3rd and short situations, don't you REALLY need that guy who plows the way for the running-back? Or at least acts like a decoy?

My point would be that the 2nd FB never plays. I would rather keep one on the practice squad if we are keeping Benson so we also hold onto Wolfe and AP. AP is too valuable as a special teamer to let go and Wolfe showed potential as a 3rd down back at the end of last yr.

 

Peace

[Pixote]

My point would be that the 2nd FB never plays. I would rather keep one on the practice squad if we are keeping Benson so we also hold onto Wolfe and AP. AP is too valuable as a special teamer to let go and Wolfe showed potential as a 3rd down back at the end of last yr.

 

Peace

 

 

I would agree, we need to keep all 4 RBs, AP, Wolfe, Benson, & Forte. They all fit certain roles and all can be valuable to this team (and yes, I think if our OL is solid this year, Benson will be a solid RB also.).