Points of View, May 20, 2008

[tshanno]

http://chicagobearsfanforum.com/blog/?p=250

 

The Bears

 

*

 

Brad Biggs at the Chicago Sun-Times blogs that Cedric Benson isn't at OTAs even though his court date, which was to be the first day, has been rescheduled. I'm sure Benson will have (another) good excuse.

*

 

Not surprisingly, Brain Urlacher was also missing as he cuddles some more with his fiance in Arizona. [head shake] Chicks.

 

Elsewhere

 

*

 

The Bengals' Odell Thurman has been released by the Bengals. This wouldn't be news except for the implication that Thurman was released because he missed organized team activities at least partly due to the death of his granmother. The Bengals didn't refute this allegation despite the fact that it almost certainly violates the terms of the CBA. Regardless, Thurman won't file a grievance to force himself upon a team that doesn't want him. At least not immediately.

 

Once again we are reminded that teams are for the most part very serious about these workouts. Whether releasing Thurman or not was the right thing to do (the implicaiton is that it wasn't morally if not legally), the incident re-enfores the notion that people like Lance Briggs and especially Brian Urlacher are missing fairly important time with the team.

*

 

The Buffalo Bills will charge $70 per seat to sit 20 rows up at midfield, while the Cowboys will charge $50,000 for the right to purchase a similar seat in their new stadium, reminding us all that the real problem isn't with the players when it comes to the CBA. It's with revenue sharing.

*

 

In the "This is why teams are bad" department: A Lions employee has apparently come up with a new slogan for the team: "F--- 'em until next year". That's the response he (supposedly inadvertently) sent to a Lions season ticket holder who was canceling his seats.

 

Pacman Jones will have to meet with the commissioner before he is re-instated (whenever that will be). Here's hoping he doesn't visit a strip club the night before the meeting like he did last time.

*

 

Mike Florio at Profootballtalk.com asks whether the Patriots taped the Rams defensive signals during their regular season matchup in 2001, thus tainting Super Bowl XXXVI. I wouldn't lay bets on the chances that the commissioner asked or, if he did, that he'd tell anyone the answer.

*

 

William Rhoden at the N.Y. Times chimes in on Spygate with a pretty good column:

 

Spygate, as this controversy has been called, is reminiscent of the game show scandals of the late 1950s when the supposed winners had in fact been supplied with answers in advance. The scandal prompted so much viewer outrage that Congressional hearings and investigations were held. Any industry that abuses the public's trust --- from thoroughbred horse racing to Major League Baseball --- flirts with disaster.

 

One Final Thought

 

The Chicago Tribune's Steve Rosenbloom: Lance Briggs said of Bears linebacker teammate Brian Urlacher: "I can relate." Is he talking about having his hand out or his trousers down?

[LT2_3]

Wow. You should write for the National Enquirer.

 

Brad Biggs at the Chicago Sun-Times blogs that Cedric Benson isn't at OTAs even though his court date, which was to be the first day, has been rescheduled. I'm sure Benson will have (another) good excuse.

 

Boy you sure jump to conclusions don't you? Personally I'll wait to see if the team has a problem with his absence before jumping to conclusions.

 

Not surprisingly, Brain Urlacher was also missing as he cuddles some more with his fiance in Arizona. [head shake] Chicks.

 

This one is mind boggling. Are you implying that his fiance is the impetus for his absence - which is during voluntary activities?

 

The Bengals' Odell Thurman has been released by the Bengals. This wouldn't be news except for the implication that Thurman was released because he missed organized team activities at least partly due to the death of his granmother. The Bengals didn't refute this allegation despite the fact that it almost certainly violates the terms of the CBA. Regardless, Thurman won't file a grievance to force himself upon a team that doesn't want him. At least not immediately.

 

Geez it would be nice if you had your facts straight. Odell's agent hasn't ruled out a grievence. Since the Bengals haven't commented on the situation, there could be another explanation - like he fell off the wagon when his grandmother died. If he did and the league found out, he would be in line for another long suspension.

 

Once again we are reminded that teams are for the most part very serious about these workouts. Whether releasing Thurman or not was the right thing to do (the implicaiton is that it wasn't morally if not legally), the incident re-enfores the notion that people like Lance Briggs and especially Brian Urlacher are missing fairly important time with the team.

 

A few points here. First, it hasn't been established that the Bengals released Thurman for missing OTAs. Second, even if that IS the case, the Bengals are implementing a new defense so attendance is a bit more important than a defense that has stayed the same for 5 seasons. It's amazing how wrong you can be on so many different levels.

 

The Buffalo Bills will charge $70 per seat to sit 20 rows up at midfield, while the Cowboys will charge $50,000 for the right to purchase a similar seat in their new stadium, reminding us all that the real problem isn't with the players when it comes to the CBA. It's with revenue sharing.

 

Your facts are right but your conclusion is dead wrong. Are you forgetting that the NFLPA required that the NFL include ALL revenues as opposed to just the DGR from the previous CBA agreement? Or did you not know that? It was the requirement of the NFLPA that forced the owners into creating the revenue sharing plan in the first place. Had they been willing to merely accept a larger portion of the DGR, then we wouldn't be in this mess. It's their fault too.

 

Mike Florio at Profootballtalk.com asks whether the Patriots taped the Rams defensive signals during their regular season matchup in 2001, thus tainting Super Bowl XXXVI. I wouldn't lay bets on the chances that the commissioner asked or, if he did, that he'd tell anyone the answer.

 

Anyone who still cares about this issue doesn't understand how teams scout each other legally in the first place. The use of tape of coaching signals only improves a team's ability to predict a defense by a negligible percentage if at all. The Patriots could have achieved the same thing legally by simply sending their analyst that breaks down the tape to each game with a notebook and a set of binoculars.

 

William Rhoden at the N.Y. Times chimes in on Spygate with a pretty good column:

 

Spygate, as this controversy has been called, is reminiscent of the game show scandals of the late 1950s when the supposed winners had in fact been supplied with answers in advance. The scandal prompted so much viewer outrage that Congressional hearings and investigations were held. Any industry that abuses the public's trust --- from thoroughbred horse racing to Major League Baseball --- flirts with disaster.

 

Wow. Another media member puffing up the subject because there's nothing else to write about right now.

[nfoligno]

This one is mind boggling. Are you implying that his fiance is the impetus for his absence - which is during voluntary activities?

 

I believe the point was his missing camp, and he further simply makes a joke. Mind boggling?

 

Geez it would be nice if you had your facts straight. Odell's agent hasn't ruled out a grievence. Since the Bengals haven't commented on the situation, there could be another explanation - like he fell off the wagon when his grandmother died. If he did and the league found out, he would be in line for another long suspension.

 

Talk about writing for the National Inquirer. The idea of his being released for missing voluntary workouts is far more credible considering the timing, as opposed to what you are throwing out. There is logic and reason to believe that, due to timing, he was released for missing voluntary workouts. On the other hand, you are throwing out the potential that he fell off the wagon w/ absolutely no reason to support such a statement. So who should send an application to the Nat'l Inquirer?

 

A few points here. First, it hasn't been established that the Bengals released Thurman for missing OTAs. Second, even if that IS the case, the Bengals are implementing a new defense so attendance is a bit more important than a defense that has stayed the same for 5 seasons. It's amazing how wrong you can be on so many different levels.

 

One. We may have a similar defense, but are coming off a pitiful year and have a still young and new DC, and yet you seem to find no fault in Urlacher skipping workouts.

 

Two. You give an excuse in the event that he was released for skipping workouts, but regardless of new defense or whatever, it is against the CBA rules, as you well know. If that IS the case, which you throw out as a possibility, whether Cincy is installing a new defense does not matter.

 

Anyone who still cares about this issue doesn't understand how teams scout each other legally in the first place. The use of tape of coaching signals only improves a team's ability to predict a defense by a negligible percentage if at all. The Patriots could have achieved the same thing legally by simply sending their analyst that breaks down the tape to each game with a notebook and a set of binoculars.

 

That is your opinion, but your opinion is in the minority. Steve Young, who i think may know a thing or two about offense, said that if he ever knew the signals the defense was using, the game would be over. Steve Young sure seems to believe knowing the defensive signals would provide more than a "negligible percentage" in terms of advantage. And NE losing a 1st round pick seems to indicate the league felt it was an important issue as well. Many former hall of fame players have said that while there is plenty of "gamesmenship" in the game, NE crossed the line. While it is legal to film and breakdown trends, it is not legal to zoon the camera in on the DC to steal signals, and create cheat sheets. That is over the line, and is a legit issue.

[LT2_3]

This one is mind boggling. Are you implying that his fiance is the impetus for his absence - which is during voluntary activities?

 

I believe the point was his missing camp, and he further simply makes a joke. Mind boggling?

 

It's mindboggling if he's serious. If he was making a joke, he hasn't mastered the art of getting that across in print.

 

Geez it would be nice if you had your facts straight. Odell's agent hasn't ruled out a grievence. Since the Bengals haven't commented on the situation, there could be another explanation - like he fell off the wagon when his grandmother died. If he did and the league found out, he would be in line for another long suspension.

 

Talk about writing for the National Inquirer. The idea of his being released for missing voluntary workouts is far more credible considering the timing, as opposed to what you are throwing out. There is logic and reason to believe that, due to timing, he was released for missing voluntary workouts. On the other hand, you are throwing out the potential that he fell off the wagon w/ absolutely no reason to support such a statement. So who should send an application to the Nat'l Inquirer?

 

I'm not publishing my thoughts on a blog and posting it on multiple websites. Holding me to the same standards is ridiculous. I wasn't saying that Thurman DID fall off the wagon, but that it was a possible situation based on his past history in trying to point out that there is possibly more to the story.

 

A few points here. First, it hasn't been established that the Bengals released Thurman for missing OTAs. Second, even if that IS the case, the Bengals are implementing a new defense so attendance is a bit more important than a defense that has stayed the same for 5 seasons. It's amazing how wrong you can be on so many different levels.

 

One. We may have a similar defense, but are coming off a pitiful year and have a still young and new DC, and yet you seem to find no fault in Urlacher skipping workouts.

 

Two. You give an excuse in the event that he was released for skipping workouts, but regardless of new defense or whatever, it is against the CBA rules, as you well know. If that IS the case, which you throw out as a possibility, whether Cincy is installing a new defense does not matter.

 

Urlacher isn't missing OTAs, he's missing a manditory minicamp over a contract issue. I don't like it, but it's the business. There's no point in crying about it.

 

As for the Thurman issue further, I was pointing out that some OTAs are more important than others depending on the situation. Either way it's irrelevant. I seriously doubt that Thurman was released for missing OTAs. If you would like a different possible explanation, perhaps he was released for not keeping his word to the coaches. So, while he only missed OTAs, he could be released for telling the coaches he was going to show up on a particular day and then didn't keep his word. From what I've read, Thurman's grandmother's funeral was over a week ago. It's not like the expected him to rush back.

 

Anyone who still cares about this issue doesn't understand how teams scout each other legally in the first place. The use of tape of coaching signals only improves a team's ability to predict a defense by a negligible percentage if at all. The Patriots could have achieved the same thing legally by simply sending their analyst that breaks down the tape to each game with a notebook and a set of binoculars.

 

That is your opinion, but your opinion is in the minority. Steve Young, who i think may know a thing or two about offense, said that if he ever knew the signals the defense was using, the game would be over. Steve Young sure seems to believe knowing the defensive signals would provide more than a "negligible percentage" in terms of advantage. And NE losing a 1st round pick seems to indicate the league felt it was an important issue as well. Many former hall of fame players have said that while there is plenty of "gamesmenship" in the game, NE crossed the line. While it is legal to film and breakdown trends, it is not legal to zoon the camera in on the DC to steal signals, and create cheat sheets. That is over the line, and is a legit issue.

 

Yeah - Young said that. But he's part of the media puffing up the story. Also, the fact that other teams do the same thing without the use of videotape shows that the Patriots gained no advantage simply by using videotape. All they would have had to do is send Ernie Adams to each game with a set of binoculars and a notepad. They could have then matched up his notes with the coaches tape that the league gives to every team for scouting. So, while I believe Young when he says it would have been a huge advantage if he knew what defense was going to be run, the combination of teams changing signals and that the same information can be obtained without breaking the rules, makes it a completely moot point.

 

How is that so hard to understand?

 

As for the author of the article, I think he spews too much crap without checking facts or even knowing what he's talking about. I have the same contempt for alot of the media, but they don't have the audacity to post their articles directly on the boards that I frequent.

[nfoligno]

I'm not publishing my thoughts on a blog and posting it on multiple websites. Holding me to the same standards is ridiculous. I wasn't saying that Thurman DID fall off the wagon, but that it was a possible situation based on his past history in trying to point out that there is possibly more to the story.

 

Ridiculous? I don't think so. The poster threw out his opinion, which seems to be based on a fair degree of logic and reason. He was cut immediately after missing voluntary workout, thus I would argue it is logic to believe (while not necessarily fact) that he was cut for missing the workout, which is against the CBA. You threw out something that is far closer to tabloid, as there was no basis for your comments.

 

Urlacher isn't missing OTAs, he's missing a manditory minicamp over a contract issue. I don't like it, but it's the business. There's no point in crying about it.

 

You can throw out the "no point in crying about it" for pretty much anything. There is reason however to criticize though.

 

As for the Thurman issue further, I was pointing out that some OTAs are more important than others depending on the situation. Either way it's irrelevant. I seriously doubt that Thurman was released for missing OTAs. If you would like a different possible explanation, perhaps he was released for not keeping his word to the coaches. So, while he only missed OTAs, he could be released for telling the coaches he was going to show up on a particular day and then didn't keep his word. From what I've read, Thurman's grandmother's funeral was over a week ago. It's not like the expected him to rush back.

 

Even under your scenario, it would be against the CBA. Whether the player broke his word or not, missing voluntary workouts is not subject to disciplinary actions.

 

Also, we have read different timelines. I read his grandmothers funeral was the day before the workouts. He was told one day after the funeral to be at workouts.

 

Yeah - Young said that. But he's part of the media puffing up the story. Also, the fact that other teams do the same thing without the use of videotape shows that the Patriots gained no advantage simply by using videotape. All they would have had to do is send Ernie Adams to each game with a set of binoculars and a notepad. They could have then matched up his notes with the coaches tape that the league gives to every team for scouting. So, while I believe Young when he says it would have been a huge advantage if he knew what defense was going to be run, the combination of teams changing signals and that the same information can be obtained without breaking the rules, makes it a completely moot point.

 

How is that so hard to understand?

 

For me, it is as simple as this. If there was no reason to cheat, then why do it? The simple fact that NE broke the rules in order to obtain the info tells me that (a) there was an advantage in having the info and ( it provided info not available through legal means. What is so difficult to understand about that. If you know all the answers to a test, why take a cheat sheet? The fact that NE did in fact, and it is a fact, cheat, tells me that it is simply not such a blow off deal as you want to believe.

 

As for the author of the article, I think he spews too much crap without checking facts or even knowing what he's talking about. I have the same contempt for alot of the media, but they don't have the audacity to post their articles directly on the boards that I frequent.

 

I have no issue w/ ripping the media, but I also think you are too quick to dismiss what is written.

[madlithuanian]

While nfo and LT go toe to toe, I throw out that...

 

Tom, I love your posts! Sure, there may be a Natl Enq vibe to a bit of it. But, I'd say, you are just trying to put an entertaining spin on things! Please keep it up! You cite your source and make your jab. I love it! If I want the hard data, I'll go check out the source you mention.

 

 

 

http://chicagobearsfanforum.com/blog/?p=250

 

The Bears

 

*

 

Brad Biggs at the Chicago Sun-Times blogs that Cedric Benson isn't at OTAs even though his court date, which was to be the first day, has been rescheduled. I'm sure Benson will have (another) good excuse.

*

 

Not surprisingly, Brain Urlacher was also missing as he cuddles some more with his fiance in Arizona. [head shake] Chicks.

 

Elsewhere

 

*

 

The Bengals' Odell Thurman has been released by the Bengals. This wouldn't be news except for the implication that Thurman was released because he missed organized team activities at least partly due to the death of his granmother. The Bengals didn't refute this allegation despite the fact that it almost certainly violates the terms of the CBA. Regardless, Thurman won't file a grievance to force himself upon a team that doesn't want him. At least not immediately.

 

Once again we are reminded that teams are for the most part very serious about these workouts. Whether releasing Thurman or not was the right thing to do (the implicaiton is that it wasn't morally if not legally), the incident re-enfores the notion that people like Lance Briggs and especially Brian Urlacher are missing fairly important time with the team.

*

 

The Buffalo Bills will charge $70 per seat to sit 20 rows up at midfield, while the Cowboys will charge $50,000 for the right to purchase a similar seat in their new stadium, reminding us all that the real problem isn't with the players when it comes to the CBA. It's with revenue sharing.

*

 

In the "This is why teams are bad" department: A Lions employee has apparently come up with a new slogan for the team: "F--- 'em until next year". That's the response he (supposedly inadvertently) sent to a Lions season ticket holder who was canceling his seats.

 

Pacman Jones will have to meet with the commissioner before he is re-instated (whenever that will be). Here's hoping he doesn't visit a strip club the night before the meeting like he did last time.

*

 

Mike Florio at Profootballtalk.com asks whether the Patriots taped the Rams defensive signals during their regular season matchup in 2001, thus tainting Super Bowl XXXVI. I wouldn't lay bets on the chances that the commissioner asked or, if he did, that he'd tell anyone the answer.

*

 

William Rhoden at the N.Y. Times chimes in on Spygate with a pretty good column:

 

Spygate, as this controversy has been called, is reminiscent of the game show scandals of the late 1950s when the supposed winners had in fact been supplied with answers in advance. The scandal prompted so much viewer outrage that Congressional hearings and investigations were held. Any industry that abuses the public's trust --- from thoroughbred horse racing to Major League Baseball --- flirts with disaster.

 

One Final Thought

 

The Chicago Tribune's Steve Rosenbloom: Lance Briggs said of Bears linebacker teammate Brian Urlacher: "I can relate." Is he talking about having his hand out or his trousers down?