Pixote Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 If this is the case and he is traded, what do you think we would get? My guess is a conditional 5th or 6th rounder. Last time we made a trade like this when we thought we had depth at a position we wound up regretting it later. Biggs is an idiot, but he makes some good points in the article. Article from Chicago Sun-Times Numbers worth looking at in Ricky Manning Jr. caseThe perception last season was that Ricky Manning Jr. was overlooked in a big way when seventh-round pick Trumaine McBride was used primarily as a starter in Nathan Vasher’s absence. It was reality in the sense that starting is a big deal. Whose in the lineup on a week-to-week basis speaks volumes about who the coaching staff believes in most. But the statistics paint a somewhat different picture. Manning was on the field for 544 of the 1,076 defensive snaps last season. McBride? 584. About the same. It marked a decrease in defensive snaps for Manning of only 55 from 2006, or a little less than one game. Interestingly, Manning was actually on the field more for the Bears in 2007 than he was in 2006 because of an increased role on special teams. That role doesn’t look to be expanding any time soon, not here anyway. He’s running with the third team right now and has been removed from the nickel unit with Danieal Manning now holding down that spot. It’s early. The Bears are two months and a day away from reporting to training camp in Bourbonnais, but if this holds up much longer he’s going to become serious trade bait. The issue at hand will be Manning’s contract. He’s on the books for $1.85 million this season but that figure shoots up to $4.75 million in 2009 and rests at $4.55 million in 2010. It’s a situation where a team acquiring him would likely want to rework the numbers (unless it only plans on keeping him for one season, which is unlikely) and it takes two parties to agree to a new deal. Manning was remarkably upbeat about his situation and says there is no rift whatsoever with the coaching staff. He’s disappointed and wants a chance but didn’t do any finger pointing. You’d think he is of value but running behind McBride, Corey Graham, probably even rookie Zak Bowman, and the starters, he Bears may see it differently right now. Stay tuned on this situation. Posted by Brad Biggs on May 22, 2008 06:06 AM | Permalink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 If this is the case and he is traded, what do you think we would get? My guess is a conditional 5th or 6th rounder. Last time we made a trade like this when we thought we had depth at a position we wound up regretting it later. Biggs is an idiot, but he makes some good points in the article. Article from Chicago Sun-Times It totally depends if the team feels someone else can push him for playing time. Having 4 corners is a good luxury to have. If one of the youngsters can step up, 1.85 mil is a very expensive 4th or 5th corner. I've also been reading that Cleveland is totally screwed at CB. I'd still love some sort of package deal to get Quinn from them. Maybe we could start talks. I know it would cost more than Manning, but maybe Vasher and Rex?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Personally, I still wonder if he wouldn't be worth keeping for another year. 1. While Vasher and Tillman are solid starters, but have gone down w/ injuries recently, only proving the need for depth. 2. McBride was solid last year, and while I like him as a starter, playing nickel is different and not all can be great in that regard. I am simply not sure we should assume anything. 3. I really do not want to assume too much w/ DM or the rookie. 4. RMJ is not good as a starter, but I am not sure he has been different from what we thought when we brought him in either. He was a solid nickel and special teams player, which is pretty much what we have gotten. He is not good when in the starting role, but he may well still be a good nickel DB for us. I am not sure there is harm in keeping him for another year until some of our young DBs develop further and step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 It totally depends if the team feels someone else can push him for playing time. Having 4 corners is a good luxury to have. If one of the youngsters can step up, 1.85 mil is a very expensive 4th or 5th corner. I've also been reading that Cleveland is totally screwed at CB. I'd still love some sort of package deal to get Quinn from them. Maybe we could start talks. I know it would cost more than Manning, but maybe Vasher and Rex?... You can't trade Vasher as you signed him to a rather large extension last yr. Cleveland is not going to let go of Quinn just yet. I would be happy if we could get a 4th rounder for Manning Jr. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Personally, I still wonder if he wouldn't be worth keeping for another year. 1. While Vasher and Tillman are solid starters, but have gone down w/ injuries recently, only proving the need for depth. 2. McBride was solid last year, and while I like him as a starter, playing nickel is different and not all can be great in that regard. I am simply not sure we should assume anything. 3. I really do not want to assume too much w/ DM or the rookie. 4. RMJ is not good as a starter, but I am not sure he has been different from what we thought when we brought him in either. He was a solid nickel and special teams player, which is pretty much what we have gotten. He is not good when in the starting role, but he may well still be a good nickel DB for us. I am not sure there is harm in keeping him for another year until some of our young DBs develop further and step up. Numbers game does not look good for RMJ to stay on the team. 1 - Tillman & Vasher Starters 2 - McBride, Graham, Bowman, D Manning backups Given that Manning Jr. is paid as a starter, I see the Bears moving him. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 McBride is good in coverage but his run support was severely lacking last year. Maybe that's a case of rookie inexperience, just plain fear of getting beat in coverage, or what happens when you are 5' 9" and weigh only 180lbs but he was almost always very late reacting to a run. DManning tackles like a girl but has the athleticism to play in coverage. We've never really seen Graham play and Bowman's just a rookie on bad knees. RMJ didn't cover very well last year but his run support is usually solid. I'm ok moving RMJ on if the kids are doing well in the OTAs and early in camp but I think our run support in the nickel D is going to suffer. This scenario is shaping up just like last years safety situation when we traded Chris Harris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Paid as a starter. I would say he is paid as a better nickel, but I am not sure I would say as a starter, which I do not think we ever envisioned him being. If the kids step up in camp, great, but (a) I want to see them take the job first and ( last years Harris trade still is felt. We thought we were so deep at S due to all the young prospects, but that simply did not hold true, and we were pretty quickly missing him. I fear the same happening again if we get rid of RMJ too hastily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Paid as a starter. I would say he is paid as a better nickel, but I am not sure I would say as a starter, which I do not think we ever envisioned him being. If the kids step up in camp, great, but (a) I want to see them take the job first and ( last years Harris trade still is felt. We thought we were so deep at S due to all the young prospects, but that simply did not hold true, and we were pretty quickly missing him. I fear the same happening again if we get rid of RMJ too hastily. If he is around next yr, and I think it's a big if, he will be gone next yr as his salary shoots up over 4 million next yr. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 name='Connorbear' date='May 25 2008, 10:34 AM' post='39485'] You can't trade Vasher as you signed him to a rather large extension last yr. I guess you could get creamed with losing the signing bonus. I forget how Vasher's bonus is structured, but I wouldn't mind us biting it a little to get a blue chip prospect in at QB. Send them Rex for a backup and we start Orton and groom Quinn. I used to have a lot of kool-aid for Rex that I simply don't have anymore. Cleveland is not going to let go of Quinn just yet. Not so sure about that. If they are in need of another premium position, that may be their only bargaining chip. I really think they are desparate for CB and are playoff hopefull. If Anderson is looking good this off season, I could see them moving Quinn for a playoff shot. I would be happy if we could get a 4th rounder for Manning Jr. I'd do a back flip for that. Given his age, past and loss of position, a 5th rounder would be outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I guess you could get creamed with losing the signing bonus. I forget how Vasher's bonus is structured, but I wouldn't mind us biting it a little to get a blue chip prospect in at QB. Send them Rex for a backup and we start Orton and groom Quinn. I used to have a lot of kool-aid for Rex that I simply don't have anymore. How do you know Quinn is a blue chip QB prospect? Has he even played a down in the NFL? You have a blue chip player in Vasher who is a very, very good cornerback. All things being equal, I would not make this trade. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 name='nfoligno' date='May 25 2008, 12:35 PM' post='39493'] If the kids step up in camp, great, but (a) I want to see them take the job first and I think I stated that in a previous post, but see below... ( last years Harris trade still is felt. We thought we were so deep at S due to all the young prospects, but that simply did not hold true, and we were pretty quickly missing him. I fear the same happening again if we get rid of RMJ too hastily. Agree Harris' trade hurt last year, but really: Who saw that coming? If you can create a beneficial deal for your team, you have to pull the trigger. No more living in the past for me. I think with leadership, you also have to show your team that you are doing everything you can to be a winner. (without fear or apprehension) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bears 88 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Keep RMJ. You can never have enough CB's. If they get rid of him, then JA should resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 How do you know Quinn is a blue chip QB prospect? I think you missed the boat on that comment. Prospect is what it is, if he weren't a prospect, he is proven in one way or another. Has he even played a down in the NFL? Again, he is a prospect. You don't draft him in the 1st round if he's not. You have a blue chip player in Vasher who is a very, very good cornerback. Agreed, but you have to pay the price to get a commodity and it would be a gamble. All things being equal, I would not make this trade. I really don't know what I'd do. I just know we need a QB for the future and Quinn fits the mold of a good Soldier Field QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I think you missed the boat on that comment. Prospect is what it is, if he weren't a prospect, he is proven in one way or another. Again, he is a prospect. You don't draft him in the 1st round if he's not. Agreed, but you have to pay the price to get a commodity and it would be a gamble. I really don't know what I'd do. I just know we need a QB for the future and Quinn fits the mold of a good Soldier Field QB. Got it. Still, I would not trade a proven player still in his youth for a prospect. We saw how much better the defense looked with Vash back on the field at the end of last yr. I would be willing to give them RMJ and our first next yr for Quinn though I do not think they would do that. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 This year seems to be the only year they could move him for something, but I would wait until a team comes calling during training camp. Someone always gets hurt. If the Bears want to move him next year, more than likely they would cut him due to his salary. I don't think any team would want to take that salary on for a Nickelback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Keep RMJ. You can never have enough CB's. Agreed. We're paying him under 2 million this year. If he can be productive he's well worth. If he sucks in training camp that's a different story. Although paying him over 4 million next year is ridiculous. But I see know reason to make a move now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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