The D didn't like Ced...

[madlithuanian]

I do see your point, but I just don't think the slipper slope argument works.

 

There's been no flat out definitie story stating it was a love of TJ or just dislike ot Benson... And even so.

 

I completely agree with your "in-game v practice" comments. Denis Rodman comes to mind in that example... However, I bet when Denis was a rookie, Daly didn't let him get away with that. It was only until he proved himsefl on the field did he get cut some slack. Benson hadn't done jack on the field before that.

 

We are still doing a whole hell of a lot of speculating... Maybe the 10 guys or whatever Glazer mentioned weren't even Brown and Urlacher? What if the hit from those guys was just dumb luck? Do you really know that one guy only had it in for Benson and then recruited 9 others to be his henchmen? There's just no evidence of that.

 

OK, your last arguement now puts it in perspective. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone played nice. But they didn't, and some believe justifyably so, and others think unjusifyably not.

 

I think we can leave it at that...?

 

 

 

And I think you may be missing my point.

 

For the situation of Benson, specific, I can understand much. My issue is a slippery slope one.

 

I have seen the argument that players play the game. Players felt TJ was better, so there is no problem knocking the crap out of the guy they feel the staff is trying to promote over TJ. Fans are writing it off due to dislike of Benson, but I think that is a mistake.

 

You talk about respect and work habbits. All that is fine and good, but respect is often as much about what they do in a game as it is in practice. If a guy sucks in practice but owns the games, I have a feeling the other players will like him. If a player works hard in practice, but sucks in games, players may respect him, but that doesn't mean they want him to start.

 

I mention Brown and Rex in a slipperly slope contention. It may not be a direct match for this situation, but I think it is a next logical progression.

 

At the end of the day, I really do not have a problem with an individual giving a little extra. What I do have an issue w/ is when the individual gathers other individuals and gangs up.

 

Look, this really is a loser argument. In order to argue against the actions, you have to sort of stand on the side of Benson and against players like Brown and Urlacher. That is near impossible right now. But as wrong as Benson may have been in many regards, I simply feel it also wrong to handle it the way our defensive players REPORTEDLY did.

[madlithuanian]

You can have him...

 

How about neither?

 

Give me Shoop.

 

Now that that is settled, how about Hatley v Angelo:)

[nfoligno]

Response in general, more than specific.

 

You make light, but let me tell you, I have a feeling many rookies would fail if they went to a team that shunned them. Not all, by any means. But I think many rookies enter the NFL insecure. The NFL has many programs to try and better bring in rookies so they can adapt, because it is a huge transition.

 

Aside from Benson, I have heard many stories of how a rookie came in, and found a leader at his position basically turn his back. I think this most often (at least reported) would be seen at QB. You have a veteran QB who is not happy a rookie QB was drafted. Many veteran QBs have the character to mentor the kid, but there have also been plenty who were flat out jerks to the kid. Think about the effect. The veteran gets all the other veterans on his side, and the rookie finds few friends on the team. Now throw this in there. The rookie was a high pick, and the veteran, who the players view as they best chance to win with, finds himself riding the pine for this unproven kid.

 

That is a tough situation, and one in which I too would point the finger at the veterans.

 

What has always killed me in all this is, TJ was once Benson. TJ was once the high pick in AZ who was not always the most popular. The team seemed to do better w/ the veteran Pittman, but the staff kept trying to push TJ into the mix. He flat out failed. But he was in the same situation, and IMHO, learned little. When he came to Chicago, he took on the role of Pittman, and also took on the role of the veteran who would do little to help the young prospect. That is bad enough normally, but I always thought worse for TJ, who was once in Benson's shoes, and should have better understood.

[madlithuanian]

Maybe that's true. But usually there's a reason behind the shunning. I sure it's not a case of "we just don't like you,etc". There has to be more to it. More than what we've even heard as speculation.

 

It is a tough situation, but I also still contend that it is one that should be risen above. Sure, the vets are being jerky, but at the end, you can only rely on yourself to make the best of a situation and gain respect. I've seen it happen in sports and in the office. It doesn't make the road and easy one, but probably makes the succes that much sweeter and makes the person better for it.

 

Regarding TJ, I'm not sure it was even the eventual loss of his job...maybe Benson did something to really piss him off. We just don't know. We all know greed plays a part. Once you get the starting job, I'm sure some part of human nature kicks in and you don't want to lose it. Doesn't make it nececsarily right as you mention.

 

I guess my overall though on Benson is that he made his bed at the very onset with the contract dispute and never recovered. We can all point to other things, but I think that started the snowball effect for him. Ever since then, there's been nothing but bad vibes relating to him. Either by his own doing, or from some reported ill will by teammates. At the end, he has more then enough money to retire a happy man. I hope he finds that happiness. And I hope the Bears learn from the mistake as well.

 

I just want guys on the team that want to be there, want to play hard, and want to win.

 

Response in general, more than specific.

 

You make light, but let me tell you, I have a feeling many rookies would fail if they went to a team that shunned them. Not all, by any means. But I think many rookies enter the NFL insecure. The NFL has many programs to try and better bring in rookies so they can adapt, because it is a huge transition.

 

Aside from Benson, I have heard many stories of how a rookie came in, and found a leader at his position basically turn his back. I think this most often (at least reported) would be seen at QB. You have a veteran QB who is not happy a rookie QB was drafted. Many veteran QBs have the character to mentor the kid, but there have also been plenty who were flat out jerks to the kid. Think about the effect. The veteran gets all the other veterans on his side, and the rookie finds few friends on the team. Now throw this in there. The rookie was a high pick, and the veteran, who the players view as they best chance to win with, finds himself riding the pine for this unproven kid.

 

That is a tough situation, and one in which I too would point the finger at the veterans.

 

What has always killed me in all this is, TJ was once Benson. TJ was once the high pick in AZ who was not always the most popular. The team seemed to do better w/ the veteran Pittman, but the staff kept trying to push TJ into the mix. He flat out failed. But he was in the same situation, and IMHO, learned little. When he came to Chicago, he took on the role of Pittman, and also took on the role of the veteran who would do little to help the young prospect. That is bad enough normally, but I always thought worse for TJ, who was once in Benson's shoes, and should have better understood.

[DrunkBomber]

Response in general, more than specific.

 

You make light, but let me tell you, I have a feeling many rookies would fail if they went to a team that shunned them. Not all, by any means. But I think many rookies enter the NFL insecure. The NFL has many programs to try and better bring in rookies so they can adapt, because it is a huge transition.

 

Aside from Benson, I have heard many stories of how a rookie came in, and found a leader at his position basically turn his back. I think this most often (at least reported) would be seen at QB. You have a veteran QB who is not happy a rookie QB was drafted. Many veteran QBs have the character to mentor the kid, but there have also been plenty who were flat out jerks to the kid. Think about the effect. The veteran gets all the other veterans on his side, and the rookie finds few friends on the team. Now throw this in there. The rookie was a high pick, and the veteran, who the players view as they best chance to win with, finds himself riding the pine for this unproven kid.

 

That is a tough situation, and one in which I too would point the finger at the veterans.

 

What has always killed me in all this is, TJ was once Benson. TJ was once the high pick in AZ who was not always the most popular. The team seemed to do better w/ the veteran Pittman, but the staff kept trying to push TJ into the mix. He flat out failed. But he was in the same situation, and IMHO, learned little. When he came to Chicago, he took on the role of Pittman, and also took on the role of the veteran who would do little to help the young prospect. That is bad enough normally, but I always thought worse for TJ, who was once in Benson's shoes, and should have better understood.

So what are they supposed to do? Take him by the hand, put him in a red jersey so he cant get touched and pay him pretty much more money than anyone on the team? For how much money he "held out" for theres gonna be tension from vets. He came in making more money than any offensive player on the team without playing a down and we need to worry about if theyre too insecure to handle it? Thats why they get paid that kind of money. He talked the talk, got the money and that was it. Players try to show up each other in practice all the time and Im sure injuries arise a lot. You keep saying they "intentionally" tried to hurt him. Are you sure about that or is that a rather general assumption? Despite what the article says, unless I hear it from the player himself Im not going to assume he was trying to injure him. Sure, he might have went at him harder for whatever reason, but that doesnt mean he was trying to hurt him. The whole argument is based off a pretty brass assumption.

[azbearsfan]

OK, then you're calling him a cheap shot "temp"...the intent of your comment is still the same.

 

Sure...I as a fan, sitting on my comfy couch, playing Madden, hoping we'll go 16-0, and win the Super Bowl was hoping for the best. According to some, a few players saw differently. He did do "something". He had a bad work ethic and who knows what else... Benson can be pissed all he wants to be. He has every right and justification. It's well within his legal rights to do so. However, it speaks to his character that he'd rather piss n moan about it than stand up for himself and prove himself. Oh poor little Ceddy! I get drafted 4th overall and get a ton of loot. The mean old yucky RB I'm sent to replace and eventually take his job away from won't play reindeer games with me, and his other friends are making it tough on me in practice! Please! That's just acting like a baby! You claim to always call this like the D was acting like Jr. High Schoolers...but Benson was acting like a pre-schooler!

 

I am finally seeing what so upsets you... I think you're saying that Cedric would have been better had the D not rough-housed him a bit thus causing him to sulk and not be happy and perform to the best of his ability. That it somehow weakened the team. I just disagree on so many levels. Fist, did it weaken it so much that we missed the Super Bowl? No. And even if it did, and their rough-housing of Ceddy caused him to fumble in the Super Bowl, etc...then we just plain deserved to lose that game relying on a weak person. I'm sure Cedric's a nice guy to hang out with. Heck, on a personal level, I do feel for him. I know tons of buddies who f'ed up, got treated bad, etc... I also know a ton who did that and made something of the situation. Football isn't about coddling and spooning, it's about tough love.

 

 

Well sort of. I'm not saying Benson would have been better. I have no idea what could have happened. I'm saying the fact that the defense did something different to him, therefore injuring an offense player and possible hampering his development, is flat out wrong. You are justifying it because you dont like the guy based on things that have happened after that incident. At that point in time, he wasn't being characterized as having no work ethic, etc. We dont know how much of Ced's attitude towards the team comes from that sort of incident.

 

You and Drunk rationalize it by saying, "Hey thats football, quit your whining". But I guarantee if Url and the boys decided to do that crap to Forte and injured him, you'd be pissed, cause we dont have a TJ to fall back on in this case. For me, I would have rather the defense focus on not getting their butts ran over and not trying to decide which one of their buddies they want to elevate to number one on the depth chart by hurting people. Again, in the long run, that sort of childish crap just hurts the team.

 

And if you have a ton of buddies who got treated like crap and injured by their fellow employees, simply because they were hired to take the place of a popular employee (which I highly doubt, by the way), then they would have one hell of a case for a lawsuit.

[azbearsfan]

So what are they supposed to do? Take him by the hand, put him in a red jersey so he cant get touched and pay him pretty much more money than anyone on the team? For how much money he "held out" for theres gonna be tension from vets. He came in making more money than any offensive player on the team without playing a down and we need to worry about if theyre too insecure to handle it? Thats why they get paid that kind of money. He talked the talk, got the money and that was it. Players try to show up each other in practice all the time and Im sure injuries arise a lot. You keep saying they "intentionally" tried to hurt him. Are you sure about that or is that a rather general assumption? Despite what the article says, unless I hear it from the player himself Im not going to assume he was trying to injure him. Sure, he might have went at him harder for whatever reason, but that doesnt mean he was trying to hurt him. The whole argument is based off a pretty brass assumption.

 

 

No, but they sure are not supposed to hit him in practice until he gets hurt. And I've never heard an instance where the whole defense hits a guy differently because their buddy got replaced, so I dont think it happens "all the time".

 

You can try and justify it cause of your dislike of Benson all you want, but its still wrong any way you slice it.

[WheresMyronBaker]

AZ, Im not disagreeing with you per se...

 

But what if Cedric Benson was such a bother to be around...far and above other players any of these guys have been around...that the response was just worse than normal.

 

Not saying doing it is right...but its not like CB was a likeable guy on or off the field from day 1.

 

Maybe its not a special kind of mistreatment by the D....maybe CB was a special kind of knucklehead.

[azbearsfan]

AZ, Im not disagreeing with you per se...

 

But what if Cedric Benson was such a bother to be around...far and above other players any of these guys have been around...that the response was just worse than normal.

 

Not saying doing it is right...but its not like CB was a likeable guy on or off the field from day 1.

 

Maybe its not a special kind of mistreatment by the D....maybe CB was a special kind of knucklehead.

 

 

That very well may be. But its still not the defense's job to injure him as a consequence. There are plenty of knuckleheads in the league. Its the nature of football. And you dont have to like everyone you play with.

But doing something like that hurts the team. And it possibly hurt his development. Whether you like the guy or not (I dont like him so its not a question of that), its still wrong.

[DrunkBomber]

No, but they sure are not supposed to hit him in practice until he gets hurt. And I've never heard an instance where the whole defense hits a guy differently because their buddy got replaced, so I dont think it happens "all the time".

 

You can try and justify it cause of your dislike of Benson all you want, but its still wrong any way you slice it.

Theres a big difference between going at a guy you dont like harder than the whole defense hitting a guy till he gets injured. Sure, if they were treating it like a gang initiation that might be a little much. Clean hits in a live drill in practice are fair game though. Youre making it sound like they jumped him or something. We need to remember these arent facts either, this is someones opinion, and its not one of the players.

[DrunkBomber]

That very well may be. But its still not the defense's job to injure him as a consequence. There are plenty of knuckleheads in the league. Its the nature of football. And you dont have to like everyone you play with.

But doing something like that hurts the team. And it possibly hurt his development. Whether you like the guy or not (I dont like him so its not a question of that), its still wrong.

If youre going to continue to use something that there is no positive way you can know as the basis of your argument than this isnt gonna go anywhere. Is there any type of proof that they were continually hitting him with the goal of injuring him or are you drawing a bold conclusion based on this article? This is hearsay at this point. Unless one of the players says he was trying to injure him it shouldnt be looked at like he was being victimized by the whole team.

[azbearsfan]

If youre going to continue to use something that there is no positive way you can know as the basis of your argument than this isnt gonna go anywhere. Is there any type of proof that they were continually hitting him with the goal of injuring him or are you drawing a bold conclusion based on this article? This is hearsay at this point. Unless one of the players says he was trying to injure him it shouldnt be looked at like he was being victimized by the whole team.

 

 

lol. What else can I base my opinion on than what is reported?

If we dont comment on hearsay, then half the topics on this board dissappear, including the Benson lake thing.

 

 

I also remember seeing a tape of it and thinking it was weird to hit a back that hard in half pads.

 

 

And basically you have changed your take from "He shouldn't whine about getting hit extra hard by the whole defense because they didn't like him" to "We dont know what really happened"

[bear trap]

lol. What else can I base my opinion on than what is reported?

If we dont comment on hearsay, then half the topics on this board dissappear, including the Benson lake thing.

 

 

I also remember seeing a tape of it and thinking it was weird to hit a back that hard in half pads.

 

 

And basically you have changed your take from "He shouldn't whine about getting hit extra hard by the whole defense because they didn't like him" to "We dont know what really happened"

My two cent is this: It's football, yeah there will be tempers flaring, look at the fight that took place in baltimore's minicamp. People will do whatever they can do to get the coaches attention, and even if that means laying out a teammate so be it. It may not be the best way to get looked at, but that's the sport and that's how it's done. Also, I remember when the injury was announced and brown and urlacher discussed it. I recall them saying it really wasn't a hard hit and I believe benson even confirmed it. I mean c'mon do you honestly think that they were in the huddle saying "Okay guys let's seperate this prick's shoulder", I doubt it. Maybe something like: "Let's make this rookie earn his spot" , but to say they intentionally injured him is incredibly narrow sighted and there is a difference from roughing someone up and actually injuring him. Let's all keep in mind benson really wasn't as tough as adversided and I would have to say the beating and abuse he took in college hindered his development more than a seperated shoulder in 1 training camp. Either way he was the mark bradley of our running back corp and to blame his weakness on our own team is just stupid. Just another reporter trying to make another rift with the team and bensons supporter's excuse to being a bust.

[azbearsfan]

My two cent is this: It's football, yeah there will be tempers flaring, look at the fight that took place in baltimore's minicamp. People will do whatever they can do to get the coaches attention, and even if that means laying out a teammate so be it. It may not be the best way to get looked at, but that's the sport and that's how it's done. Also, I remember when the injury was announced and brown and urlacher discussed it. I recall them saying it really wasn't a hard hit and I believe benson even confirmed it. I mean c'mon do you honestly think that they were in the huddle saying "Okay guys let's seperate this prick's shoulder", I doubt it. Maybe something like: "Let's make this rookie earn his spot" , but to say they intentionally injured him is incredibly narrow sighted and there is a difference from roughing someone up and actually injuring him. Let's all keep in mind benson really wasn't as tough as adversided and I would have to say the beating and abuse he took in college hindered his development more than a seperated shoulder in 1 training camp. Either way he was the mark bradley of our running back corp and to blame his weakness on our own team is just stupid. Just another reporter trying to make another rift with the team and bensons supporter's excuse to being a bust.

 

 

Sorry. I disagree and its not "stupid" and I dont appreciate you calling me that. Its a legit concern and I think passing over it lightly is "narrow sighted". Their goal was to get TJ back into the starting role by hitting Benson as hard as they could in half pads. It wasn't something they did to all rookies. And it wasn't something they did to all running backs to toughen them up.

 

Again, I think the "its football" excuse is a cop out. It wasn't something that happened in the heat of the moment. They deliberately treated Benson differently because they wanted their buddy to start.

 

So if that had anything to do with Benson not developing, then, again, the bottom line is that it hurt the team. Spin it any way you want because you hate Benson.

 

And. for the record, I think that cutting Benson was the right thing to do. I think Benson is a moron for getting a DUI after all the other exposure. So I'm not exactly a "Benson supporter".

[Connorbear]

Sorry. I disagree and its not "stupid" and I dont appreciate you calling me that. Its a legit concern and I think passing over it lightly is "narrow sighted". Their goal was to get TJ back into the starting role by hitting Benson as hard as they could in half pads. It wasn't something they did to all rookies. And it wasn't something they did to all running backs to toughen them up.

 

Again, I think the "its football" excuse is a cop out. It wasn't something that happened in the heat of the moment. They deliberately treated Benson differently because they wanted their buddy to start.

 

So if that had anything to do with Benson not developing, then, again, the bottom line is that it hurt the team. Spin it any way you want because you hate Benson.

 

And. for the record, I think that cutting Benson was the right thing to do. I think Benson is a moron for getting a DUI after all the other exposure. So I'm not exactly a "Benson supporter".

In promotion of peace and in defense of Bear Trap, I don't think he was calling you stupid. I think he was saying laying the blame was stupid. I really don't think anyone on this site thinks anyone else is stupid. We certainly disagree with each other and often think "How can anyone say something so stupid" but I think 99% of the time there is mutual respect on this board.

 

Just my take.

 

Peace

[bear trap]

Sorry. I disagree and its not "stupid" and I dont appreciate you calling me that. Its a legit concern and I think passing over it lightly is "narrow sighted". Their goal was to get TJ back into the starting role by hitting Benson as hard as they could in half pads. It wasn't something they did to all rookies. And it wasn't something they did to all running backs to toughen them up.

 

Again, I think the "its football" excuse is a cop out. It wasn't something that happened in the heat of the moment. They deliberately treated Benson differently because they wanted their buddy to start.

 

So if that had anything to do with Benson not developing, then, again, the bottom line is that it hurt the team. Spin it any way you want because you hate Benson.

 

And. for the record, I think that cutting Benson was the right thing to do. I think Benson is a moron for getting a DUI after all the other exposure. So I'm not exactly a "Benson supporter".

 

Let's get a few things straight read my post I didn't call you stupid I said it's stupid to assume, which is all you're doing, that the defense was trying to hurt benson. Now did they rough him up sure but you have never and will never be in that locker room and you don't know what his work ethic and attitude was, so whether or not they instigated it or he, no one will ever know. We as fans would never wish an injury on anyone even on the other team, so I find it hard to believe that teammates were set out to injure benson. Also, do you honestly think that if he didn't seperate his shoulder in tc he'd be a stud today???? To even say that those hits he took in tc kept him from developing is crazy, he had no desire or fire for the sport much like his older brother ricky (lot of potential wrapped in ignorance and laziness)>Oh yeah, why would you say that I hate benson??? I don't ever recall making that statement?? There's a big difference in hating someone and not caring for their play on the field. For all I know benson may be a real good guy, but I surely wouldn't want him on my favorite team for the fact that he appears not to give it his all, and when you have guys like wolfe,peterson, and forte who have busted their butts off to play in this league why should benson be treated the same as the guys who do give it their all and fight to be on this team? Like I said, I don't hate benson, but I do find it hard to believe anyone would want someone with no motivation on their team. He's blown his chance in the league to be a starting rb, and maybe any chance to stay in the NFL period.

[DrunkBomber]

lol. What else can I base my opinion on than what is reported?

If we dont comment on hearsay, then half the topics on this board dissappear, including the Benson lake thing.

 

 

I also remember seeing a tape of it and thinking it was weird to hit a back that hard in half pads.

 

 

And basically you have changed your take from "He shouldn't whine about getting hit extra hard by the whole defense because they didn't like him" to "We dont know what really happened"

Ya, and youve also morphed what was reported from, they hit him harder because they didnt like him to the whole defense continually hit him until he was hurt and there is no way thats true. Yes, I dont think its a big deal if the first thing is what happened, but I know the second thing didnt happen. Do you honestly think this was like a non hitting drill and guys were just hitting him left and right and the coaches didnt do anything?

 

Nobody liked him so they played harder to show him up and if he got hurt, oh well.

[madlithuanian]

I just think you're taking this too personally for some reason... As Drunk Bomber mentioned, this wasn't a gang initiation or a jolly stomp. It was just some hard hits at practice. SOmething tells me the likes of Bill George, Dick Butkus, Ed O B, etc...probably did the same to guys they didn't care for, if not worse.

 

Sure, if that were to hapen to Forte that would be awful. So would Olsen breaking Tommie's kneecaps with a crowbar. Or Lovie bashing Kruetz's femur with a sledgehammer. But, odds are all those things aren't going to happen.

 

Your lawsuit case has me bewlidered... People don't hit people in office situations. Football isn't a simliar comparison...

 

Regardless, let's not continue to flog this dead horse. I just hope you can get past harboring such negative thoughts about Mike Brown for what he speculatively may have done.

 

 

Well sort of. I'm not saying Benson would have been better. I have no idea what could have happened. I'm saying the fact that the defense did something different to him, therefore injuring an offense player and possible hampering his development, is flat out wrong. You are justifying it because you dont like the guy based on things that have happened after that incident. At that point in time, he wasn't being characterized as having no work ethic, etc. We dont know how much of Ced's attitude towards the team comes from that sort of incident.

 

You and Drunk rationalize it by saying, "Hey thats football, quit your whining". But I guarantee if Url and the boys decided to do that crap to Forte and injured him, you'd be pissed, cause we dont have a TJ to fall back on in this case. For me, I would have rather the defense focus on not getting their butts ran over and not trying to decide which one of their buddies they want to elevate to number one on the depth chart by hurting people. Again, in the long run, that sort of childish crap just hurts the team.

 

And if you have a ton of buddies who got treated like crap and injured by their fellow employees, simply because they were hired to take the place of a popular employee (which I highly doubt, by the way), then they would have one hell of a case for a lawsuit.

[DrunkBomber]

Brown: No one on Bears tried to hurt Benson

By David Haugh | Tribune staff reporter 8:46 PM CDT, June 15, 2008

 

Ruben Brown showed again Sunday why if he doesn't find an NFL team that wants his services this fall, he should have no problem finding a media outlet.

 

In an interview on WMVP-AM, the outspoken Brown chastised a report by Fox Sports' Jay Glazer that as many as 10 Bears players once tried to hurt Cedric Benson in practice.

 

"That sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo," the former Bears guard said. "Nobody does that anymore. We all respect each other's right to earn money. I mean, we're all trying to make it, and that makes no sense.

 

"You're saying Mike Brown, Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs, outstanding stand-up people in the community and on the team, leaders of our team, wanted to go and hurt another teammate?

 

Come on, that's far-fetched. ... I was on the team. I saw when Cedric got hurt. Cedric got hurt on his own accord. Why would Brian Urlacher care to intentionally hurt our starting running back that's going to keep us from making it to the playoffs?"

[madlithuanian]

I didn't see your post here! i Just posted it as a seperate topic...

 

Brown: No one on Bears tried to hurt Benson

By David Haugh | Tribune staff reporter 8:46 PM CDT, June 15, 2008

 

Ruben Brown showed again Sunday why if he doesn't find an NFL team that wants his services this fall, he should have no problem finding a media outlet.

 

In an interview on WMVP-AM, the outspoken Brown chastised a report by Fox Sports' Jay Glazer that as many as 10 Bears players once tried to hurt Cedric Benson in practice.

 

"That sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo," the former Bears guard said. "Nobody does that anymore. We all respect each other's right to earn money. I mean, we're all trying to make it, and that makes no sense.

 

"You're saying Mike Brown, Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs, outstanding stand-up people in the community and on the team, leaders of our team, wanted to go and hurt another teammate?

 

Come on, that's far-fetched. ... I was on the team. I saw when Cedric got hurt. Cedric got hurt on his own accord. Why would Brian Urlacher care to intentionally hurt our starting running back that's going to keep us from making it to the playoffs?"

[azbearsfan]

Again Mad, putting words in my mouth. Never said I harbor negative thoughts towards Brown. I think he is a great player when he is on the field.

 

Lets slow it down and look at what we have here.

 

 

It was reported that the defense hit Ced harder because they were mad that TJ was demoted and therefore Benson was injured.

 

In the beginning of this thread, people were basically saying, 'He deserved that because he is a (you pick) bad teammate, lazy , a jerk, etc'.

 

I took exception to that for two reasons.

 

First, at that time, and you admitted this, he had not had the reputation as a craphole. At that point, everyone was excited about the explosiveness and promise that Benson showed his rookie year.

 

Secondly, the defense doing that hurt the team and possibly hurt Benson's development at that time. Now based on the comments to this thread, I guess everyone is ok with that based on how Benson turned out. To me, its not ok, because it hurt the team and we will never know how Benson could have turned out if TJ and the gang would have brought him into the fold instead of the cold shoulder. Again, based on the responses, you guys don't care because 'Its football' and 'He should be more mentally tough' and stuff like that. Which again is your opinion, but I will disagree.

 

Now we have Ruben Brown's report which you guys will want to use as proof that Grazer's report is made up. Is Ruben Brown lying? I dont think so. He probably doesn't think that they did that. But there is no factual proof from Ruben Brown. I mean he wasn't in the defensive huddle. Plus he pretty much says it was Benson's fault he got injured. So what are we supposed to read into that??? And then he says the big three are upstanding citizens. Brown , yes. Briggs and Url...not so much. Just because a guy is a great football player, doesn't mean they are great people in the community.

 

Also just because Butkis did things back in the day, doesn't it mean it was right or would be appropriate in today's game. Shoot, Ty Cobb killed people, doesn't mean Derek Jeter should start offing folks. And just because someone is a great player

 

And any sort of negative treatment in an office setting(doesn't have to be hitting) in regards to the same situation (people dont like the new guy and they want the old guy back) would be grounds for a lawsuit. No reason to be bewildered about it. lol

 

 

What I will agree with you on is the fact that this is a dead horse so I will stop with this post. We again agree to disagree .

 

 

And for Beartrap. Here is the quote,"to blame his weakness on our own team is just stupid". Since I made the statement that the incident hindered Benson's development I logically made the connection that you called me stupid. Then this quote has me kind of going in circles, "I didn't call you stupid I said it's stupid to assume, which is all you're doing" . lol Seriously, what does than mean? Again using the Laws of Logic, the conclusion is I am stupid. Its cool though, I forgive you. lol

 

Now this being said. Please read this and don't reply because I would like to move on.

[madlithuanian]

az...you must be referencing a different post, because what you're relpying to is just my reply to DrunkBomber that I already posted the Ruben Brown article from PFT...

 

But anyway... I again have no intention of ever putting words in your mouth...

 

While I disagree with your analogies of Cobb/Butkus and the office setting, I'll leave well enough alone and drink with you on agreeing to disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again Mad, putting words in my mouth. Never said I harbor negative thoughts towards Brown. I think he is a great player when he is on the field.

 

Lets slow it down and look at what we have here.

 

 

It was reported that the defense hit Ced harder because they were mad that TJ was demoted and therefore Benson was injured.

 

In the beginning of this thread, people were basically saying, 'He deserved that because he is a (you pick) bad teammate, lazy , a jerk, etc'.

 

I took exception to that for two reasons.

 

First, at that time, and you admitted this, he had not had the reputation as a craphole. At that point, everyone was excited about the explosiveness and promise that Benson showed his rookie year.

 

Secondly, the defense doing that hurt the team and possibly hurt Benson's development at that time. Now based on the comments to this thread, I guess everyone is ok with that based on how Benson turned out. To me, its not ok, because it hurt the team and we will never know how Benson could have turned out if TJ and the gang would have brought him into the fold instead of the cold shoulder. Again, based on the responses, you guys don't care because 'Its football' and 'He should be more mentally tough' and stuff like that. Which again is your opinion, but I will disagree.

 

Now we have Ruben Brown's report which you guys will want to use as proof that Grazer's report is made up. Is Ruben Brown lying? I dont think so. He probably doesn't think that they did that. But there is no factual proof from Ruben Brown. I mean he wasn't in the defensive huddle. Plus he pretty much says it was Benson's fault he got injured. So what are we supposed to read into that??? And then he says the big three are upstanding citizens. Brown , yes. Briggs and Url...not so much. Just because a guy is a great football player, doesn't mean they are great people in the community.

 

Also just because Butkis did things back in the day, doesn't it mean it was right or would be appropriate in today's game. Shoot, Ty Cobb killed people, doesn't mean Derek Jeter should start offing folks. And just because someone is a great player

 

And any sort of negative treatment in an office setting(doesn't have to be hitting) in regards to the same situation (people dont like the new guy and they want the old guy back) would be grounds for a lawsuit. No reason to be bewildered about it. lol

 

 

What I will agree with you on is the fact that this is a dead horse so I will stop with this post. We again agree to disagree .

 

 

And for Beartrap. Here is the quote,"to blame his weakness on our own team is just stupid". Since I made the statement that the incident hindered Benson's development I logically made the connection that you called me stupid. Then this quote has me kind of going in circles, "I didn't call you stupid I said it's stupid to assume, which is all you're doing" . lol Seriously, what does than mean? Again using the Laws of Logic, the conclusion is I am stupid. Its cool though, I forgive you. lol

 

Now this being said. Please read this and don't reply because I would like to move on.

[DrunkBomber]

Again Mad, putting words in my mouth. Never said I harbor negative thoughts towards Brown. I think he is a great player when he is on the field.

 

Lets slow it down and look at what we have here.

 

 

It was reported that the defense hit Ced harder because they were mad that TJ was demoted and therefore Benson was injured.

 

In the beginning of this thread, people were basically saying, 'He deserved that because he is a (you pick) bad teammate, lazy , a jerk, etc'.

 

I took exception to that for two reasons.

 

First, at that time, and you admitted this, he had not had the reputation as a craphole. At that point, everyone was excited about the explosiveness and promise that Benson showed his rookie year.

 

Secondly, the defense doing that hurt the team and possibly hurt Benson's development at that time. Now based on the comments to this thread, I guess everyone is ok with that based on how Benson turned out. To me, its not ok, because it hurt the team and we will never know how Benson could have turned out if TJ and the gang would have brought him into the fold instead of the cold shoulder. Again, based on the responses, you guys don't care because 'Its football' and 'He should be more mentally tough' and stuff like that. Which again is your opinion, but I will disagree.

 

Now we have Ruben Brown's report which you guys will want to use as proof that Grazer's report is made up. Is Ruben Brown lying? I dont think so. He probably doesn't think that they did that. But there is no factual proof from Ruben Brown. I mean he wasn't in the defensive huddle. Plus he pretty much says it was Benson's fault he got injured. So what are we supposed to read into that??? And then he says the big three are upstanding citizens. Brown , yes. Briggs and Url...not so much. Just because a guy is a great football player, doesn't mean they are great people in the community.

 

Also just because Butkis did things back in the day, doesn't it mean it was right or would be appropriate in today's game. Shoot, Ty Cobb killed people, doesn't mean Derek Jeter should start offing folks. And just because someone is a great player

 

And any sort of negative treatment in an office setting(doesn't have to be hitting) in regards to the same situation (people dont like the new guy and they want the old guy back) would be grounds for a lawsuit. No reason to be bewildered about it. lol

 

 

What I will agree with you on is the fact that this is a dead horse so I will stop with this post. We again agree to disagree .

 

 

And for Beartrap. Here is the quote,"to blame his weakness on our own team is just stupid". Since I made the statement that the incident hindered Benson's development I logically made the connection that you called me stupid. Then this quote has me kind of going in circles, "I didn't call you stupid I said it's stupid to assume, which is all you're doing" . lol Seriously, what does than mean? Again using the Laws of Logic, the conclusion is I am stupid. Its cool though, I forgive you. lol

 

Now this being said. Please read this and don't reply because I would like to move on.

Me and Mad were basically the ones on the other side of your stance but I dont think either of us said it would be ok because Benson deserved it. It was more, he got hit hard in practice, oh well. I said numerous times I have no problem with them going at him harder but I never said if they were trying to hurt him intentionally its ok. I never believed that to be true anyway which I also stated many times. Im not going to take Jay Glazers opinions over players who were there when it happened so it brings me back to my original point. If the defense didnt like Benson so they went at him harder in practice I have no problem with that. As long as it was clean and was allowed in whatever drill was being run. Since there were no repercussions I dont think he took a cheap shot or anyone went out of their way to hit him with the intent of injuring him. I also dont care if they went at him harder than TJ or AP as long as it was fair.