The official Hester Holdout thread

[bradjock]

That's one helluva a theory, but there's one HUGE hole in it: The guy is so damn good as a return man, we're constantly getting the ball on the 40 so all we have to do is go 28 yards to be in damn near automatic field goal range. (which is depressing as hell considering how few points we score.)

 

And that's on offense he constantly draws double teams as a deep threat.

 

Doesn't the great field position & the threat earn him #1 WR money?

 

It's a tricky subject either way.

 

That being said, he pretty much has to report. If he waits until August 5th he'll be fined close to $200,000, damn near half his salary.

 

 

 

Has anyone considered this?

 

We all kinda agree he has not proved he is a number 1 WR.

 

He wants to be paid as a number 1 WR.

 

He knows the Bears take care of their own.

 

He knows they were in negotiations trying to get a contract completed.

 

Yet, knowing he was going to line up with the number 1 offense in practice and have a chance to prove himself as a number one WR he decided to holdout.

 

Now why would he do that? The only answer I can come up with is he did not want to take a chance and prove he WAS NOT a number 1 WR through his show in practice.

 

If he was confident he was indeed a number 1 WR all he had to do was go out there and show his stuff, dazzle everyone with his skills as a number 1 WR. He then increases his value in negotiations and if the Bears do not pony up he then has leverage by holding out.

 

Seems to me he wants to have the Bears pay but does not want to prove a thing, just pay me the money.

[nfoligno]

Hey nimrod,

 

You misunderstand, as you often do.

 

I am not supportive of Hester on this. I think he is a dumbass. He has no position of leverage. I am simply talking about his value. You said "he hasn't proven he is close to Berrian yet". My point is that he has proven he is as valuable as Berrian. Does that mean I think we should simply bend over and give him whatever he wants? Nope. I am simply talking about what I consider his value.

 

Personally, I do nothing w/o him in camp. If he does show up to camp, I have no problem negotiating w/ him, but I have a feeling my offer would not come close to what he and his agent want. To bad, so sad for him, as I am not going to pay him #1 WR money w/o him having a proven jack as a WR, much less as a #1 WR.

[CrackerDog]

My point is that he has proven he is as valuable as Berrian.

 

Which is simply incorrect if you know anything about how the team is forced to slice up the cap money. He isn't as valuable as a #1/#2 WR. Period. His position dictates that. You can argue all day long that the field position makes him as valuable to the team but the reality is, it doesn't work that way.

 

Glad we see eye to eye on his current value. I didn't misunderstand, you didn't make yourself very clear.

 

PS. Learn to use the QUOTE button you dope.

[nfoligno]

PS. Learn to use the QUOTE button you dope.

 

My bad. I assumed you were smart enough to figure it out. My mistake. Dumbarce!

 

Which is simply incorrect if you know anything about how the team is forced to slice up the cap money. He isn't as valuable as a #1/#2 WR. Period. His position dictates that. You can argue all day long that the field position makes him as valuable to the team but the reality is, it doesn't work that way.

 

Normally, I might agree, but:

 

(a) I think Hester creates an exception to the rule. Time change, and so do the rules. It wasn't long ago that only the LT made premier money. They you saw the RTs making big bucks. Now even OGs make big bucks. There was a time when kickers didn't make much, but of late, you have seen their pay sky rocket. Similar w/ punters. Point is, just because historically, a position was not paid big bucks doesn't mean it will always hold true.

 

( While he isn't proven as a WR, he does play the position, and did rack up 300 yards and a couple scores last year in limited opportunities.

 

Bradjock threw this out there already, but if Hester were an UFA this year, who do you think would have received the bigger contract. Hester or Berrian. I think Hester would have.

[CrackerDog]

Bradjock threw this out there already, but if Hester were an UFA this year, who do you think would have received the bigger contract. Hester or Berrian. I think Hester would have.

 

I don't know. Berrian is probably a bad example anyway since he's a true #2 getting #1 money from a team desperate to add WR help. I will say my guess is we'd get offered more for Hester in a trade than we'd get offered for Berrian which says the same thing you're saying, Hester is worth a lot to this team.

 

But whoever got him either as a free agent or via trade would face the same dilemma JA faces today. And I don't know how you balance it out. All of those other positions making more these days actually kinda makes my point... you've got to pay those dudes! How can you do all of that and still have a guy like Hester eating up a ton of cap space while not playing a position that traditionally gets that kind of money? How can you invest that much in a position that's considered very high risk? There's a reason those jobs are usually held by guys who aren't that important to the team...

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Come on guys, lets keep to debating the issue and stay away from the personal attacks.

[nfoligno]

Alright, let try to bring this one back.

 

I would not give Hester more than #2 WR money. Does that really eat up that much cap space? I am not talking Boldin or Housyourmama #2 money, but average #2 WR money. Not even sure what that exactly is, but I doubt it is such a great cap consequence. I would absolutely argue he is worth that.

 

The more he improves at WR, the more his contract value goes up, as it should.

 

But then you get back to the question of what to do w/ him now. Frankly, I will throw another wrench into the equation. I have no problem signing players early, but to me, they have to give up something too. If we so choose, we can have Hester cheap for two more seasons. He may not like that, but that is like in the NFL. If he wants a new deal, he will not get full market value, as he is (in my eye's) getting a big raise early. It may not always play out that way, but I simply do not believe in giving a player a 100% full market value deal before they are FAs. The player has to facter that he is getting his new deal early, and consider what his outlook would be playing another two years for basically the minimum.

 

I really question how this will get done. About the only way I can see it is if we (a) offer a mid-grade #2 WR contract ( add in a significant future bonus, which a team will not eat unless the player is still playing at a high level and ( throw in a bunch of "reachable" incentives. I know you mentioned incentives before. While I do not believe they can be the main crux of the contract, they will be part of it. The two tiered bonus is how I think this can get done. Say he has a $10m bonus set for 2010, three years from now. If he has not become a legit WR by then, we may be less likely to pay that 2nd bonus, and let him walk. It's our out. On the other hand, it gives Hester the opportunity for bigger bucks, and in the alternative, the potential to hit FA and seek another new deal.

[nfoligno]

Come on guys, lets keep to debating the issue and stay away from the personal attacks.

 

Can't tell if this was directed to Crackerpot and I or not, but if it is, we just have fun w/ each other. Neither take the barbs serious.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Come on guys, lets keep to debating the issue and stay away from the personal attacks.

 

Can't tell if this was directed to Crackerpot and I or not, but if it is, we just have fun w/ each other. Neither take the barbs serious.

Gotcha, I didn't realize you two were playing around.

[nfoligno]

Yea, crucker knowns he is an idiot, and doesn't have a problem when I call him one:)

[madlithuanian]

I can vouch...nfo and cracker are notroius for bustin' each other chops form the old board.

 

If it were anyone else, I'd have raised a red flag as well.

 

With these 2 clowns, just sit back and enjoy! (Thanks for the entertainment fellas!)

 

 

Come on guys, lets keep to debating the issue and stay away from the personal attacks.

 

Can't tell if this was directed to Crackerpot and I or not, but if it is, we just have fun w/ each other. Neither take the barbs serious.

[CrackerDog]

Come on guys, lets keep to debating the issue and stay away from the personal attacks.

 

Can't tell if this was directed to Crackerpot and I or not, but if it is, we just have fun w/ each other. Neither take the barbs serious.

 

Crackpot? Who you callin' CRACKPOT!?!?!

 

That hurt my feelings NFO. I think you owe me and the whole board an apology...

 

BWAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HAHA HAHA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

 

Meanie.

[CrackerDog]

I can vouch...nfo and cracker are notroius for bustin' each other chops form the old board.

 

If it were anyone else, I'd have raised a red flag as well.

 

With these 2 clowns, just sit back and enjoy! (Thanks for the entertainment fellas!)

 

 

Man, I can't believe some of you guys have thousands of posts here already. I've been MIA for a while with personal issues to sort out. Not home free yet either but the new season got me back here. I had a bazillion posts on the old site and now I look like a chump breaking Nfo's balls. Ah well... I'll catch up someday.

[CrackerDog]

Alright, let try to bring this one back.

 

I would not give Hester more than #2 WR money. Does that really eat up that much cap space? I am not talking Boldin or Housyourmama #2 money, but average #2 WR money. Not even sure what that exactly is, but I doubt it is such a great cap consequence. I would absolutely argue he is worth that.

 

I agree. And from what I heard, that's a $3 to $4 million number per season.

 

The more he improves at WR, the more his contract value goes up, as it should.

 

So now you're FOR an incentive type contract? OK, glad you've come around to where I started like 237 posts ago.

 

But then you get back to the question of what to do w/ him now. Frankly, I will throw another wrench into the equation. I have no problem signing players early, but to me, they have to give up something too. If we so choose, we can have Hester cheap for two more seasons. He may not like that, but that is like in the NFL. If he wants a new deal, he will not get full market value, as he is (in my eye's) getting a big raise early. It may not always play out that way, but I simply do not believe in giving a player a 100% full market value deal before they are FAs. The player has to facter that he is getting his new deal early, and consider what his outlook would be playing another two years for basically the minimum.

 

I agree with this also. Did you take smart pills or something?

 

I really question how this will get done. About the only way I can see it is if we (a) offer a mid-grade #2 WR contract ( add in a significant future bonus, which a team will not eat unless the player is still playing at a high level and ( throw in a bunch of "reachable" incentives. I know you mentioned incentives before. While I do not believe they can be the main crux of the contract, they will be part of it. The two tiered bonus is how I think this can get done. Say he has a $10m bonus set for 2010, three years from now. If he has not become a legit WR by then, we may be less likely to pay that 2nd bonus, and let him walk. It's our out. On the other hand, it gives Hester the opportunity for bigger bucks, and in the alternative, the potential to hit FA and seek another new deal.

 

I like it. Probably combine the big bonus in 2010 with year to year roster bonuses before and after such that if he gets hurt or declines they won't get paid. He's protected because the Bears will need to cut him and let him be a free agent to chase a deal elsewhere. These probably step up in amount over time. If he makes it at WR, he'll be worth every penny. If not, the Bears can look at their individual cap circumstances each year to determine if they can afford to have a luxury player like Hester (only returning kicks) on the team.

[madlithuanian]

I'm sure you'll be right up there shortly!

 

Glad you're back in more regularly!

 

I hope your personal situation goes well for you...

 

Man, I can't believe some of you guys have thousands of posts here already. I've been MIA for a while with personal issues to sort out. Not home free yet either but the new season got me back here. I had a bazillion posts on the old site and now I look like a chump breaking Nfo's balls. Ah well... I'll catch up someday.