Would you trade Hester?

[Pixote]

We had a thread months ago speculating on the value of trading Hester.

 

In light of him threatening to hold out for the season, and knowing we have several other players with excellent return ability, not nearly as much as Hester, but still could be effective return men, would you consider now trading Hester?

 

Is it conceivable that we could get a #1 for him? Would a team give up that much to get the #1 return man in the NFL and the potential to be a top flight WR?

 

If I thought he would be a season long holdout, I would say yes, trade him for a #1 or maybe a #2 & #4. I am just not convinced this holdout will last very long.

 

Although it may hold back his development at WR, his holdout may shield him from injuries, decrease his load at WR, allow others the opportunity to show up at the position, and keep Devin fresh for his return duties.

 

Could this be a good thing?

[Mongo3451]

name='Pixote' date='Jul 24 2008, 06:50 AM' post='42008']

We had a thread months ago speculating on the value of trading Hester.

 

In light of him threatening to hold out for the season, and knowing we have several other players with excellent return ability, not nearly as much as Hester, but still could be effective return men, would you consider now trading Hester?

 

Is it conceivable that we could get a #1 for him? Would a team give up that much to get the #1 return man in the NFL and the potential to be a top flight WR?

 

If I thought he would be a season long holdout, I would say yes, trade him for a #1 or maybe a #2 & #4. I am just not convinced this holdout will last very long.

 

Although it may hold back his development at WR, his holdout may shield him from injuries, decrease his load at WR, allow others the opportunity to show up at the position, and keep Devin fresh for his return duties.

 

Could this be a good thing?

I think his trade value is great. You might get a 1st and 2nd or 3rd. Agreed, on the hold out.

[BigDaddy]

I think his trade value is great. You might get a 1st and 2nd or 3rd. Agreed, on the hold out.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. People are making way too much of Hester's worth to this football team. Yes, he is probably the best returner ever to play the game but that doesn't make him worth anywhere near 45M. He still hasn't proved he can A) catch the ball consistently, Learn the playbook or at the very least, know where to line up, or C) show he can run the routes, not just flying down the sideline, I mean ALL the routes #1 WRs run. I agree that a trade would bring us some much needed help. If he plans to holdout all season, hell, let somebody else deal with it.

[madlithuanian]

I still wouldn't trade him...

 

I'm attempting not to let emotion get into this. His talents are too valuable. We'd be lucky to strike that gold in the draft one out of 10 drafts...

 

I think calmer heads will prevail...

 

 

 

We had a thread months ago speculating on the value of trading Hester.

 

In light of him threatening to hold out for the season, and knowing we have several other players with excellent return ability, not nearly as much as Hester, but still could be effective return men, would you consider now trading Hester?

 

Is it conceivable that we could get a #1 for him? Would a team give up that much to get the #1 return man in the NFL and the potential to be a top flight WR?

 

If I thought he would be a season long holdout, I would say yes, trade him for a #1 or maybe a #2 & #4. I am just not convinced this holdout will last very long.

 

Although it may hold back his development at WR, his holdout may shield him from injuries, decrease his load at WR, allow others the opportunity to show up at the position, and keep Devin fresh for his return duties.

 

Could this be a good thing?

[Da Bears 88]

I wholeheartedly agree. People are making way too much of Hester's worth to this football team. Yes, he is probably the best returner ever to play the game but that doesn't make him worth anywhere near 45M. He still hasn't proved he can A) catch the ball consistently, Learn the playbook or at the very least, know where to line up, or C) show he can run the routes, not just flying down the sideline, I mean ALL the routes #1 WRs run. I agree that a trade would bring us some much needed help. If he plans to holdout all season, hell, let somebody else deal with it.

Trading Hester would be downright stupid.

[nfoligno]

1. Starting where you finished, "Could this be a good thing". IMHO, no way. If we were not trying to move him to WR, and he was simply going to be our return man, then his holdout would not be nearly as huge of an issue. But he is trying to learn a still relatively new position. He showed last season how behind the curve he is at WR. Similar IMHO to a rookie, he needs to be in camp, working and learning the WR position.

 

2. I personally think his value could be greater than just a 1st. Consider his impact for many of the upper tier teams, using Indy as an example. Right now, teams are more and more kicking away from Hester. W/ so little to fear of our offense, than can do this and sacrifice field position. But what if your choice was between Hester and Payton Manning. Pick your evil. Likely, Hester would receive far more kicks and opportunities, and his impact would be even greater.

 

But these teams are not going to have as good of a draft pick. That is the downside. So a 1st and even a 3rd from a team like Indy just doesn't have as awesome value. But I am not sure teams expected to suck would be likely to give up a 1st, as that pick would be too valuable.

 

3. In the end, I would have to look at the offer. I am not sure any player on our team is untradable (not counting contracts) w/ Harris being the closest thing to an exception. If I were offered two 1st round picks, I think I would take that regardless what team made the offer (except GB/Minny). If it were a 1st and 3rd, then it may depend on who the team is. If it were just a 1st, then maybe if it were a team like Oak (insert your favorite bottom 5 team), then maybe. Nothing lower than a 1st.

 

If I felt we were a SB team this year, then I would not trade Hester for even two 1st round picks, but I do not see us being "that" good, and thus adding high draft picks to better the team moving forward should be looked at.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Trading Hester would be downright stupid.

Quit adding so much detail to your posts.

 

I think if we could get a 2009 2nd and 3rd rounder, and then a 2010 3rd OR 2nd rounder, I'd do it. Maybe with not as many TDs, but I'm sure another guy on this team can get us to the 25+ every time. Especially if he pulls a Scottie Pippen and starts refusing to do things in pre-season games.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I would trade him in a heartbeat. The problem is the time to trade him was in the off-season when you could have immediately made use of the draft picks you would have received. To make a deal in-season, I would ask for a 1st, a GOOD WR, a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

Thats what I would ask for, but I would require at least a 1st, a good WR (who could come in and start immediately and be counted on down the years) plus at least two other draft picks (not necessarily a 2nd and 3rd though).

 

Say Chad Johnson is truly available, I would deal Hester for Johnson and a pick. Hell, I'd do it straight up just as I'd make a deal straight up for Anquan Boldin. I'm not sure if the other teams would do those deals or what the heck the salary ramifications would be.

[madlithuanian]

I could not disagree more.

 

You're giving him away... He's is worth potentially 2 firsts. He's a proven commodity as a return man as potentially THE BEST EVER... and he has an uspdie as an offensive weapon that is untapped. Could you imagine what a good OC could do with him?

 

Before we start jumping to all kinds of conclusions...I'm willing to let this play out a bit. Hester has called Angelo's bet. Angelo says he won't deal with holdouts, and Hester is holding out. So, we'll see who flinches in this game of chicken first. I truly believe it will be worked out. It's just a matter of when and at what cost (not just financially, but at a cost of his and the team's development).

 

 

 

Quit adding so much detail to your posts.

 

I think if we could get a 2009 2nd and 3rd rounder, and then a 2010 3rd OR 2nd rounder, I'd do it. Maybe with not as many TDs, but I'm sure another guy on this team can get us to the 25+ every time. Especially if he pulls a Scottie Pippen and starts refusing to do things in pre-season games.

[madlithuanian]

I still don't like trading him, but given your deals, I wouldn't be in a depression over it!

 

But why ask for a WR? Why not a QB?

 

I would trade him in a heartbeat. The problem is the time to trade him was in the off-season when you could have immediately made use of the draft picks you would have received. To make a deal in-season, I would ask for a 1st, a GOOD WR, a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

Thats what I would ask for, but I would require at least a 1st, a good WR (who could come in and start immediately and be counted on down the years) plus at least two other draft picks (not necessarily a 2nd and 3rd though).

 

Say Chad Johnson is truly available, I would deal Hester for Johnson and a pick. Hell, I'd do it straight up just as I'd make a deal straight up for Anquan Boldin. I'm not sure if the other teams would do those deals or what the heck the salary ramifications would be.

[Da Bears 88]

Yeah, lets trade one of our most explosive playmaker's for draft picks.

 

Yay.

[nfoligno]

I understand what you are saying, but let me ask you this. You question what a good OC, or I would throw out there, a good offense in general, could do w/ him. No question. I mentioned this before, but imagine if he were on Indy, and teams had to choose between giving him the ball or Manning good field position. Ouch.

 

But look at it now from the opposite angle. How likely are we to get much more out of him that what we have. Sure, he may play some WR, but w/ our QBs and offense, do you really think he could ever become a great WR, or even just a consistent one? And I hate to say this, but how likely is that to change in the near future. Unless Rex/Orton pull something out of their arces, we are likely going to be looking at a new QB against next year, and I think it a good bet it will be a young QB to boot. That means a couple more years of an offense building. How likely is Hester to break out under those circumstances.

 

So while I do not question his value for a team like Indy (or a team w/ an offense than can develop more of his potential), I do have to wonder how much of that potential our offense can actually tap into.

 

I would not give him away for less than a 1st. Even if we were offered a 1st, it may not be enough. A 1st offered by Oakland and a 1st offered by Indy are two very different values. But a 1st and another top 3 round pick may be enough. I repeat, MAY be enough. Even then I am not certain, but I will say this. I do not consider him untradable. It is really just a matter of whether we can get enough value for him.

 

Of coarse, Angelo would probably trade him just to move up in the 2nd round, only to trade back on draft day.

[nfoligno]

Hester for Brady Quinn?

 

I like the idea of getting a QB, but how many young QBs are out there who would be considered in a trade. Most young QBs we might have any interest in are not QBs a team is likely to part w/. There just are not that many good young QBs. WRs on the other hand are far more in abundance.

[ostrogoth]

Hester is arguably the most valuable player on this entire team. No one scored more than him last year!! Questions still exist on how this team will score on offense this year. At least he provides a threat, what defense fears the Bears offense in it's current state?

 

Pending on the trade value I don't feel this hold out will go into the season but the Bears have a policy not to negotiate unless the playter reports.'

 

They did it for Urlacher, why not Devin Hester?

[madlithuanian]

I do hear you. I'm honestly not sure what our feeble offense will be able to do with him on O. Our coaching has been average to horrific. Our QB play has been average to horrific. Our WR play has basically been poor. Our OL is a bit chaotic, and our running game is suspect. The only real bright spot are the TE's. Everything is a mystery that leans on bad. I fully agree that I don't see hester breaking out under those conditions...

 

But, I still think we darn well should try. And think the guy needs a serious pay raise.

 

I also agree that if we do trade him, we better darn well get compensation. I liked (I think it was) Bearsdabomb's idea of getting a #1 pick, a #1 WR and some other picks for him... Something now, and something for later... But I just want Hester to be a Bear.

 

Sadly, I could just see getting ten 7th round picks for him...

 

I understand what you are saying, but let me ask you this. You question what a good OC, or I would throw out there, a good offense in general, could do w/ him. No question. I mentioned this before, but imagine if he were on Indy, and teams had to choose between giving him the ball or Manning good field position. Ouch.

 

But look at it now from the opposite angle. How likely are we to get much more out of him that what we have. Sure, he may play some WR, but w/ our QBs and offense, do you really think he could ever become a great WR, or even just a consistent one? And I hate to say this, but how likely is that to change in the near future. Unless Rex/Orton pull something out of their arces, we are likely going to be looking at a new QB against next year, and I think it a good bet it will be a young QB to boot. That means a couple more years of an offense building. How likely is Hester to break out under those circumstances.

 

So while I do not question his value for a team like Indy (or a team w/ an offense than can develop more of his potential), I do have to wonder how much of that potential our offense can actually tap into.

 

I would not give him away for less than a 1st. Even if we were offered a 1st, it may not be enough. A 1st offered by Oakland and a 1st offered by Indy are two very different values. But a 1st and another top 3 round pick may be enough. I repeat, MAY be enough. Even then I am not certain, but I will say this. I do not consider him untradable. It is really just a matter of whether we can get enough value for him.

 

Of coarse, Angelo would probably trade him just to move up in the 2nd round, only to trade back on draft day.

[madlithuanian]

Hester for Quinn and their #1!

 

I'd settle for that in a heartbeat...

 

Agreed, WR's are easier to come by...and if we look at SB winners, not as integral as a great QB...

 

Bottom line, until we get it right, we should keep shooting for a QB!

 

Hester for Brady Quinn?

 

I like the idea of getting a QB, but how many young QBs are out there who would be considered in a trade. Most young QBs we might have any interest in are not QBs a team is likely to part w/. There just are not that many good young QBs. WRs on the other hand are far more in abundance.

[Da Bears 88]

Hester for Brady Quinn? LOL..........who's he going to throw the ball to? Olsen & Clark all the time?

[balta1701-A]

Hester for Quinn and their #1!

 

I'd settle for that in a heartbeat...

 

Agreed, WR's are easier to come by...and if we look at SB winners, not as integral as a great QB...

 

Bottom line, until we get it right, we should keep shooting for a QB!

Only problem with that idea is...the Cleveland Browns are probably the only team for whom Hester @ Return man wouldn't be a huge upgrade. They're pretty darn happy with Cribbs at that spot.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I still don't like trading him, but given your deals, I wouldn't be in a depression over it!

 

But why ask for a WR? Why not a QB?

I'm not as concerned with QB as most. I believe if you give Orton or Grossman solid offensive weapons we'll get passable play from our QB (possibly even better than that). However, given what they currently have I think its pretty ridiculous that we are going to be able to make much any evaluation on these guys (horrid WR's, unproven RB's, etc). Now if those WR's step up and Jones is healthy (Forte establishes himself) this could all change and we could really evaluate Rex or Kyle (Rex has at least had a couple seasons).

 

I see WR as the biggest need on this entire roster. Look at all great QB's (or most) early on there career they all had at least one top notch go to WR. I realize a good QB can make do with mediocre WR's but they typically can't do that until they've developed (and its much easier to develop when you have a go to WR, solid running game, and good offensive line).

 

In general I believe QB should be one of the final pieces to the puzzle, with the line's being the first pieces.

[azbearsfan]

I think a question that needs to be addressed is why such a dynamic player could not come to a position in college. I follow Miami pretty closely and they tried him at DB, RB, and WR. He could not learn the plays and coverages. Its as simple as that. Return man is pretty easy. Handle the ball and run around.

 

The only use for Hester is Indy would be as a return man. There is no way he could learn how to read the defense to be effective for Manning.

 

 

You guys saw him last year. If he is not running straight, or just has a couple special plays, then he has trouble. You see sometimes he doesn't know where to line up, and the Bears offense is not the most complex by far.

 

 

After thinking about it, trading him at the peak of his value might be a good move because its looks like to me, Hester and his agent pretty much his production will go down. Teams are going to kick away from him more and more. Especially with this offense. And I have serious questions about his ability mentally to handle a starting receiver spot. It looks like he is trying to cash in while the cashing is good.

 

Why else would he decide to hold out the year when he could be showing that he deserves big money?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Yeah, lets trade one of our most explosive playmaker's for draft picks.

 

Yay.

How do you know what we'd get in return in terms of players? If we would have made a trade after the 2005 season for Mike Brown and got a 2nd and 3rd, and with that 2nd, we got Hester, you'd be ripping on the idea. "Trade our heart and soul for Hester when we don't even need him" and wow, look how he turned out.

 

So I guess what you're saying is give Hester whatever he wants?

[nfoligno]

They did it for Urlacher, why not Devin Hester?

 

Totally different situation. Urlacher is a proven player. Hester is a proven return man, and if he were simply seeking to be the top paid return man, that would be one thing, but he wants to be paid like an upper tier WR, which is a position he is totally un-proven at.

[madlithuanian]

I didn't think of that...but I was basically playing in Fantasyland here anyway!

 

Only problem with that idea is...the Cleveland Browns are probably the only team for whom Hester @ Return man wouldn't be a huge upgrade. They're pretty darn happy with Cribbs at that spot.

[BigDaddy]

How do you know what we'd get in return in terms of players? If we would have made a trade after the 2005 season for Mike Brown and got a 2nd and 3rd, and with that 2nd, we got Hester, you'd be ripping on the idea. "Trade our heart and soul for Hester when we don't even need him" and wow, look how he turned out.

 

So I guess what you're saying is give Hester whatever he wants?

 

I guess people forget that his coaches at Miami tried to make him a WR and he failed pretty badly. I can see why this illustrious coaching staff we have that is so adept at developing young talent will Ipso Facto zap hester right into a premier NFL WR. He'll be a first ballot HOFer for sure. Now, just in case that doesn't happen, I mean, we all agree, he is incredibly intelligent and should have no problem grasping the complexities of the position, but, just on the off chance that he doesn't make it as WR, do you think he might give back some of the guaranteed WR money he's asking for?

 

Let's face it. He's a great returner but that's it. That is where it ends right now. To all you Hester apologists who insist the Bears give him what he wants, I say this. You are delusional. You refuse to see that the Bears have made him a very fair offer. 2 PHUCKING YEARS AHEAD OF TIME. You obviously haven't given much thought to what this would do to our cap situation if Hester failed at WR. I mean, sooner or later, we are going to need to sign a QB and he is going to command alot of money whether he is good or not. Contrary to popular belief, money does not grow on trees.

[madlithuanian]

I think we just disagree...

 

I look at great WR's as free desert. Nice to have, but only if it comes with the meal. Othewise it's too pricey for what you really get. Usually an upset stomach... (see Chad Johnson, TO, etc...)

 

I look at QB as steak. You get a prime piece and you can add the lousiest sides to your plate, and you're still having a fantastic meal. I kind of throw RB and OL in there as well...but overall, I just don't have warm fuzzies of WR's over QB's.

 

I'm a bit in shock you're so satisfied with our QB's...but maybe they'll prove me wrong. I still have some hope for Orton, but I just can't think of all the Tums and Rolaids I will need if Grossman is our guy yet again...

 

I'm not as concerned with QB as most. I believe if you give Orton or Grossman solid offensive weapons we'll get passable play from our QB (possibly even better than that). However, given what they currently have I think its pretty ridiculous that we are going to be able to make much any evaluation on these guys (horrid WR's, unproven RB's, etc). Now if those WR's step up and Jones is healthy (Forte establishes himself) this could all change and we could really evaluate Rex or Kyle (Rex has at least had a couple seasons).

 

I see WR as the biggest need on this entire roster. Look at all great QB's (or most) early on there career they all had at least one top notch go to WR. I realize a good QB can make do with mediocre WR's but they typically can't do that until they've developed (and its much easier to develop when you have a go to WR, solid running game, and good offensive line).

 

In general I believe QB should be one of the final pieces to the puzzle, with the line's being the first pieces.