GakMan23 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Bears | Orton appears to have upper hand Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:36:59 -0700 John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports Chicago Bears QB Kyle Orton appears to have the edge over QB Rex Grossman in the team's quarterback competition. At this point, the job appears to be Orton's to lose because he has less of a chance of losing games. Orton simply makes fewer mistakes than Grossman, even though Grossman possesses the stronger arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'd give just as much credence to a coin flip at this point as I would to any leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Thanks John Clayton... It makes sense, but I really think it is 50/50 at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprout Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Bears | Orton appears to have upper hand Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:36:59 -0700 John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports Chicago Bears QB Kyle Orton appears to have the edge over QB Rex Grossman in the team's quarterback competition. At this point, the job appears to be Orton's to lose because he has less of a chance of losing games. Orton simply makes fewer mistakes than Grossman, even though Grossman possesses the stronger arm. Too bad he didn't say what leads him to believe Orton has the upper hand. Sounds like speculation to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I lend a little more credibility to Clayton than most of the rest of the talking heads. But it would be nice to know his reasons... I tend to think it's the obvious...Rex may win games for you, but he'll also lose them. Whereas Orton may not win some games for you, but he won't lose them. Game manager of over gramebreaker/heartbreaker. Too bad he didn't say what leads him to believe Orton has the upper hand. Sounds like speculation to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I lend a little more credibility to Clayton than most of the rest of the talking heads. But it would be nice to know his reasons... I tend to think it's the obvious...Rex may win games for you, but he'll also lose them. Whereas Orton may not win some games for you, but he won't lose them. Game manager of over gramebreaker/heartbreaker. I read you on this one Mads, remember clayton's article stating not to be surprised to see K. Jones sign with the bears he is usually right on with his assessment. One thing I noticed from a different forum I visit is the youtoub video of the two days thus far of camp is that sure rex has the arm but kyle looks really comfortable going through his check-downs and usually finds the open man. Kyle thus far looks like he is going through all his reads and even if it's only a 2-3 yard pass at least it's not in the other teams hands. Granted they both have thrown a pick and both have fumbled a snap, but rex as everyone knows takes the "big play" chances and that's great if it's there, but being able to recognize when it's not is where he struggles. I think we can win with either guys if our d stays healthy and our o-line is average at best. I think forte will be a beast and kj will show no drop off. Another reason I can think that maybe kyle is ahead is when we had berrian rex appeared to "lock" on to him. Will rex do that with booker or olsen. One snap I viewed shows rex staring down olsen the entire time, and in the NFL you just can't do that. Kyle doesn't care who he throws it to, where as rex seems to always have a preference. I was hoping since berrian left that Rex's mindset would change, but that is a really hard habit to break, borderline sub-conscience. So if the coaching staff is going to take a hard look at any part of rex's game other than the buckle under pressure aspect I would think that this would be where they need to address. Rex can be a good qb when his head doesn't get in the way and unfortunately that has been his case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I assume that post is from KFFL by the formatting. If so, they're reporting something I believe I heard Clayton say on ESPN yesterday morning on Mike & Mike. If that's the case and there isn't something more recent where he made a stronger statement, his comments yesterday weren't as direct as KFFL is making it sound. His comments yesterday were along the lines of he would put Orton down as #1 right now for the factors stated by a few above. He didn't really say he felt really strongly that the Bears saw it that way which is kinda implied in the KFFL short. Like many here, I think it's a complete crapshoot. And I'm not going to guess or even root one way or the other. I just hope that everyone agrees when the decision is made that the winner really won the job. I hope one of them stands out so much that the choice is easy. It'll make life around here a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I lend a little more credibility to Clayton than most of the rest of the talking heads. But it would be nice to know his reasons... I tend to think it's the obvious...Rex may win games for you, but he'll also lose them. Whereas Orton may not win some games for you, but he won't lose them. Game manager of over gramebreaker/heartbreaker. lol If thats the case Mad, then both will win/lose the same number. Rex can't lose those games and Kyle may need to win some for the team. I have been watching the clicks of the sportsfansnetwork on youtube and to me its the same issues. Kyle's innaccuracy is still an issue. Receivers are waiting for balls. DB's and LB's are able to make plays because of ball placement and timing. Rex hits these guys in stride, especially on the deep balls. His mistakes seen to be on the mental side, not being on the same page as the receiver. Etc. You can see the difference on the deep touchdown to Rashied. Rex hits him with a beautiful ball in stride so he can run for the touchdown. Kyle underthrows him and he has to catch it in traffic. I hope one can figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 You may be right, but I think the team is good enough that a manager rather than a gunslinger gives us a better chance to win more games.... I think overall, Rex will cost us more games than Kyle won't win. (I hope that made sense...) I am taking out Rex's September 2 seasons ago. After those games, the NFL figured him out. Ever since them, he's been completely all over the map with a leaning toward making big blunders and simple errors (botched snaps). I'll admit, I'm biassed. I personally have seen enough of Rex. Whereas I've not seen enough of Orton. Overall, I think Orton does have a better win/loss record. (Maybe someone can confirm/deny that.) I wonder if Orton can get over his physical liabilities, and I wonder if Rex can get over his mental liabilities. But, also, we must question Rex's physical skills in terms of pocket pressence, seeing over the LOS and the small hands. Bottom line, neither guy thrills me. But Rex gives me an upset stomach. The Tums seems to be working for me if I see Kyle under center... But that's just me. lol If thats the case Mad, then both will win/lose the same number. Rex can't lose those games and Kyle may need to win some for the team. I have been watching the clicks of the sportsfansnetwork on youtube and to me its the same issues. Kyle's innaccuracy is still an issue. Receivers are waiting for balls. DB's and LB's are able to make plays because of ball placement and timing. Rex hits these guys in stride, especially on the deep balls. His mistakes seen to be on the mental side, not being on the same page as the receiver. Etc. You can see the difference on the deep touchdown to Rashied. Rex hits him with a beautiful ball in stride so he can run for the touchdown. Kyle underthrows him and he has to catch it in traffic. I hope one can figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprout Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I lend a little more credibility to Clayton than most of the rest of the talking heads. But it would be nice to know his reasons... I tend to think it's the obvious...Rex may win games for you, but he'll also lose them. Whereas Orton may not win some games for you, but he won't lose them. Game manager of over gramebreaker/heartbreaker. For me, it almost depends on the quality of the offensive line that would determine who I would want at QB. If the o-line can consistently protect the QB (like in 06) then I want Grossman. If the o-line sucks at pass protection (like in 07) then I'd lean towards Orton. If Grossman is protected, he can win games for you. I don't think Orton can. When Grossman isn't protected he makes horrible mistakes. I don't think Orton will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bears 88 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Orton is nothing more than a backup. If he starts, it just shows you how sad our QB's are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 You may be right, but I think the team is good enough that a manager rather than a gunslinger gives us a better chance to win more games.... I think overall, Rex will cost us more games than Kyle won't win. (I hope that made sense...) I am taking out Rex's September 2 seasons ago. After those games, the NFL figured him out. Ever since them, he's been completely all over the map with a leaning toward making big blunders and simple errors (botched snaps). I'll admit, I'm biassed. I personally have seen enough of Rex. Whereas I've not seen enough of Orton. Overall, I think Orton does have a better win/loss record. (Maybe someone can confirm/deny that.) I wonder if Orton can get over his physical liabilities, and I wonder if Rex can get over his mental liabilities. But, also, we must question Rex's physical skills in terms of pocket pressence, seeing over the LOS and the small hands. Bottom line, neither guy thrills me. But Rex gives me an upset stomach. The Tums seems to be working for me if I see Kyle under center... But that's just me. Agreed that all team's have figured Rex out. Blitz, blitz, and blitz. While Rex did throw less interceptions when he came back last season, he still had all the damn fumbles and all the sacks. I don't think he can fix those two things. Right before Rex fumbled the snap yesterday, he was looking to his left barking instructions at a WR. It's the same thing we've seen again and again. With Rex you never know if he'll move forward 10 yards or back 10 yards. Christ, with Hester giving us the ball at the 40 most possessions, all we have to do is advance the ball 28 stinking yards to the 32 in order to be in field goal range where Gould is automatic almost every times. It's time to see more of what Orton can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I think the Bears see it this way, they've seen Rex start enough times. THey haven't seen Orton start a lot, so if both play the same in training camp/pre-season they'll give the nod to Orton since he hasn't had that opportunity. Now if Rex plays head and shoulders better and looks like a new QB, they'll clearly turn it over to him because when it comes to pure QB physical ability Grossman is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguana Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Bears | Orton appears to have upper hand Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:36:59 -0700 John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports Chicago Bears QB Kyle Orton appears to have the edge over QB Rex Grossman in the team's quarterback competition. At this point, the job appears to be Orton's to lose because he has less of a chance of losing games. Orton simply makes fewer mistakes than Grossman, even though Grossman possesses the stronger arm. I always thought that Orton had the stonger arm but just didnt have the touch to make the long passes like Rex. I read that player have said that orton threw the ball the hardest last camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I think we are officially on the same page! Agreed that all team's have figured Rex out. Blitz, blitz, and blitz. While Rex did throw less interceptions when he came back last season, he still had all the damn fumbles and all the sacks. I don't think he can fix those two things. Right before Rex fumbled the snap yesterday, he was looking to his left barking instructions at a WR. It's the same thing we've seen again and again. With Rex you never know if he'll move forward 10 yards or back 10 yards. Christ, with Hester giving us the ball at the 40 most possessions, all we have to do is advance the ball 28 stinking yards to the 32 in order to be in field goal range where Gould is automatic almost every times. It's time to see more of what Orton can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Points well made. But if you're a betting man, which bet do you take? The O-line being good or bad? And even with the great O line that the Pat's had, look at what pressue on Brady did in the Super Bowl... I need a calm cool collected head under cetner. Not a roll of the dice every play. For me, it almost depends on the quality of the offensive line that would determine who I would want at QB. If the o-line can consistently protect the QB (like in 06) then I want Grossman. If the o-line sucks at pass protection (like in 07) then I'd lean towards Orton. If Grossman is protected, he can win games for you. I don't think Orton can. When Grossman isn't protected he makes horrible mistakes. I don't think Orton will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Our QB's are sad...just look at their respective rankings in the league. Orton is nothing more than a backup. If he starts, it just shows you how sad our QB's are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'm just plain curious what we'll see from Orton now that he's not relegated to the 3rd string. I always thought that Orton had the stonger arm but just didnt have the touch to make the long passes like Rex. I read that player have said that orton threw the ball the hardest last camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I always thought that Orton had the stonger arm but just didnt have the touch to make the long passes like Rex. I read that player have said that orton threw the ball the hardest last camp. I do think his arm is stronger, but like you said, he doesn't have the same touch on his throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I do think his arm is stronger, but like you said, he doesn't have the same touch on his throws. Theres not a chance in hell Ortons arm is stronger than Grossman. Thats like saying Rex is taller than Kyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Maybe if Kyle runs up three or four steps and heaves the ball with his long release (ala Brian Griese last year) then Kyle can throw further than Rex. Just standing in the pocket with a typical step into the throw Rex will outdo him. How fast you throw the ball doesn't matter if ends up in the wrong hands. I really don't care who wins the competition I just hope that for whoever does win the fans (and players) shutup and accept the coaches decision. I hear a lot about Rex's mistakes and Orton's mistakes. So far I can't see where one is doing better than the other but we have a lot of new WR learning their routes. Normally I don't worry much about catching preseason games but this year is going to be different for me. Too much to see with the Oline, Hester at WR, QB competition, the WR competition, Forte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I always thought that Orton had the stonger arm but just didnt have the touch to make the long passes like Rex. I read that player have said that orton threw the ball the hardest last camp. I don't think thats the case. Orton was said to have a solid arm in college, in fact strong, but the problem is he has a very long release and doesn't throw a good deep ball. He's also very inaccurate down the field. Rex is a far more accurate QB when it comes to medium and long range passes but Orton is much better at short range passes (and I think this has a hell of a lot to do with Orton being the big QB who can see over the lines and thus hit guys on shorter routes with far more accuracy). Regardless Orton has the tools with his biggest weakness being how long it takes him to throw the mid and long passes and his long windup is also inconsistent which effects the accuracy of such throws (he tends to both float throws that are longer as well as throw them short and into the ground). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Theres not a chance in hell Ortons arm is stronger than Grossman. Thats like saying Rex is taller than Kyle. I phrased it wrong... Orton can throw the ball farther, but doesn't possess the same zip and accuracy that Rex does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I don't think thats the case. Orton was said to have a solid arm in college, in fact strong, but the problem is he has a very long release and doesn't throw a good deep ball. He's also very inaccurate down the field. Rex is a far more accurate QB when it comes to medium and long range passes but Orton is much better at short range passes (and I think this has a hell of a lot to do with Orton being the big QB who can see over the lines and thus hit guys on shorter routes with far more accuracy). Regardless Orton has the tools with his biggest weakness being how long it takes him to throw the mid and long passes and his long windup is also inconsistent which effects the accuracy of such throws (he tends to both float throws that are longer as well as throw them short and into the ground). This is pretty much what I think about it. Ill add though, if Orton had a stronger arm than Grossman than Grossman wouldnt have seen the field the past 3 years. Grossmans arm is what has kept his job for him. The tools that Orton has shown, ball control, pocket presence, decision making is what Grossman has lacked. As far as throwing the ball farther, that doesnt have anything to do with being a quarterback. Basically, what it boils down to, Grossman, with protection and weapons could run a high powered offense. Orton can keep the team in games with ball control and game management but if the defense fails he wont be able to score quick points. If our line and weapons suck like they did last year Orton would be better suited to be the QB. If our line is improved, Jones and Forte can revamp the running game and the new faces at WR are an upgrade and the development of the TEs continues Grossman would be the better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Orton is nothing more than a backup. If he starts, it just shows you how sad our QB's are. What an insightful post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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