Kyle brings himself back into the comp or rex opens the door???

[azbearsfan]

That is the game I was talking about in a different post. Yeah, I think 5 of his career interceptions were in that game. I will remind you that the weather was very bad. Sure rain is rain, but I remember that game vividly. My cousin is a Bengals fan and he and I had a bet on that game. The real reason why I remember it is because it was the last game we watched together before he went to iraq. Like I said it was raining, and rain is rain. However the field was saturated to the point that the players looked like they were on a slip and slide. Odell Thurman picked one of Kyle's passes off a deflection off of I believe gage. There were also a lot more screw ball plays in that game, so Yeah he had a bad game. But he was a rookie, and played his first game under such bad conditions. I like to look at the difference from his rookie year to now which I see a big difference. Last year against the packers the weather was really bad as well and he didn't have a bad game, heck he did better than favre some may say. So everyone like bomber and azbearsfan and bears 88 just look at his rookie year and think they have seen enough of him because he didn't come in and explode like sooo many college qbs do after they get thrown in the starters role after the last preseason game. RIGHT????? Fact is that until this year Orton has been put into an unfair position. Now this is the year that he can prove right or wrong, and from what I've seen the last couple of starts he may need a few weeks to get a rhythme, but he could definitely be a servicable qb bears 88 note I'm not saying he'll be a pro-bowler or a HOF'er just a servicable. If he's more than that we all will see. Rex on the other hand had what? 3 years of on the bench his first being healthy behind jim miller, then two more rehabing and taking notes. Then he looked good in 06 for the first half, but choked mostly the rest of the way. Then last year's debacle. There's no reason not to say they should both be on a level playing field because as much as rex has looked good he's taken it away by looking horrible. Kyle we just don't know yet unless you count the rookie year our coaches screwed him.

 

 

lol What other year would you like me to look at?

 

I was hopeful last year but what I saw did not instill alot of confidence.

 

Seriously guys. If Orton was an good at all there would be no competition.

[bowlingtwig]

No it was not. He played somewhat decent in his first 3 or 4 games and then they decided to open up the playbook in that Cincy game when he threw the 5 picks.

[bear trap]

lol What other year would you like me to look at?

 

I was hopeful last year but what I saw did not instill alot of confidence.

 

 

Your were hopeful last year, you mean the year when he sat on the bench and finally came in with 3 games left and expect him to come in with no rust at all after not playing since 2005, on top of which he had positively NO reps with the first string unit again and no chemistry built with his receivers that he had not thrown to??? Is that the year you are talking about. Rex had the end of 2005, all of 2006, and the entire offseason with the starting unit, whereas Kyle had no chance to develope any kind of chemistry. I can understand knowing we had nothing with greise, because he at least had some reps with the first unit, but we have NEVER given that aspect to Kyle. So what exactly are you basing your opinion off of? He played as a rookie thrown in at the last minute in 2005, and again in 2007 in spot duty, both times having no repetitions with the first string unit. Everyone wonders why madlith and I are curious what he can bring??? We don't know yet. This year is the first time he's come into offseason getting reps with the first unit. This guy was a heisman candidate coming out of college, until he suffered a sports hernia the same that mcnabb suffered a few years back. The fact is that we know nothing about what he can do until we give him the same opportunity we were willing to give rex every year. I'm not talking about starting, I'm talking about developing his timing with the receivers he will be throwing to. Which is why this is his make or break year. He's finally getting the reps, the coaches are pulling their heads out of the ground and giving him the same opportunity the have given rex for 3-4 years now. If he does good in the preseason he starts if he doesn't rex starts, but at least this year we're putting him in a better position to succeed ( not counting the offensive line that is). Like I said I don't care who wins as long as we win as a team. If that's rex, great, if that's kyle, great. At least now kyle isn't going through the offseason throwing to the second and third string units and later thrown into the starting role late in the year. I bet there's just a little bit of difference throwing the ball to hester as opposed to throwing to someone like Rideau.

 

 

Seriously guys. If Orton was an good at all there would be no competition.

 

I think you have it backwards, if rex was good at all there would be no competition. Kyle or Rex need to prove themselves this year, or rex is gone and kyle is our career back-up, but at this point, no one can say that about kyle cause he has been treated entirely unfair in comparison to rex.

[madlithuanian]

Thanks for the clarification...

 

No it was not. He played somewhat decent in his first 3 or 4 games and then they decided to open up the playbook in that Cincy game when he threw the 5 picks.

[nfoligno]

Seriously guys. If Orton was an good at all there would be no competition.

 

Just curious, but why? Seriously, I am not sure why you are an Orton basher. Rex has fans and he has bashers, but at least he has enough of a body of evidence for fans to make an informed opinion. Why exactly do you think Orton is garbage? Because he didn't play great as a rookie? Because he didn't "light it up" in the couple games he was given a chance last year? Because he didn't force the staff to look at him over golden boy and the wondering veteran?

 

Not being a smart arce, but I truly don't understand why some fans are so dead set against Orton. I am not saying he is any good, but at the same time, I fail to understand why anyone believes they can have such an informed opinion of him.

 

In a post, you said it isn't that you blindly follow Rex, but simply think Orton is such crap. Not to call BS exactly, but I wonder if it isn't that you really are such a Rex backer that you have to attack Orton, because the only way to prop up Rex is to attack his competition.

 

Like I said. I have seen some good things w/ Orton, and plenty of bad. What I do not understand is the absolute hatred of some for him, and the comments that he sucks based on his rookie year and 3 games last year.

[madlithuanian]

bear trap,

 

You summed that up well!

[nfoligno]

But Grossman had the full playbook to work with and Orton only had the dummies guide to playbooks version. I just hope the light goes on for one of them and we actually have an NFL quality QB this year.

 

Circular argument.

 

"Orton had fewer picks than Rex per game."

 

"But Orton benefited from a dumbed down playbook where he didn't take risks"

 

"Orton had fewer TDs per game"

 

"But Orton suffered from a dumbed down playbook where he didn't take risks"

 

I understand Orton not having an opened up playbook his rookie year. We were winning, w/o him taking risks, and had a defense such that we could afford to be conservative on offense. Last year, we were conservative w/ him I think due to rust. The guy hadn't seen the field for a year and a half, and rarely even got practice reps as the #3 QB. How much should we have expected.

 

Now is another story. I will be ticked if we see dink and dunk from him tomorrow.

[bradjock]

Seriously guys. If Orton was an good at all there would be no competition.

 

Seeing Matt Forte in training camp, he stands out. He has a "wow" factor. You see him compared to the other guys and you immediately recognize he's that much better.

 

In previous years in training camp, whether it was against Orton or Griese, Rex had that same "wow" factor. He was just that much better.

 

This year Orton has even the tables IMO. Rex looks "slightly" better, but it's close.

 

And Orton doesn't turn the ball over as much.

 

AZ, I honestly believe the QB competition is all but over. Orton will be starting on opening day.

[azbearsfan]

lol You would think Beartrap was Ortons agent because every time they have gone head to head in camp or practice Rex looks better, yet by your reasoning we should start Orton based on his being a Heisman candidate for half a year, having worse stats than Rex, and him being a rusty guy or whatever other excuse you have.

 

Dude, again if Orton was that great this wouldn't be an issue. In Rex's only full year as a starter he got us to the Super Bowl. Bottom line. He had great games and poor games. At the end of the day Rex went 13-3, threw 23 TD's and 20 picks, won two playoff games in which he played well and stunk it up in the SB. I still can't believe the insane hatred towards that guy. Chicago should give that guy a frikin medal for doing what he did in 2006 after the absolute pieces of crap that have been quarterbacks for the squad in recent years. I seriously dont get it and I never will.

 

 

Nfo, I guess its not so much hatred towards Orton as it is the people who tout Orton as better than Rex based on nothing. There is no logic to it. Statistically Rex is better. They have the same winning percentage, so even your argument that "wins get you excited" bears no water. Rex has two playoff wins. The first two playoff wins for the Bears in how many years. Am I an absolute Rex backer, who owns a Rex jersey and has a Rex cut out. No. But I will give the guy credit for what he has done for the franchise. And until Orton proves statistically that he is better and looks like an NFL quarterback when I watch him in a game, IMO Rex is better and is who should be the starter. Again, if there was a better qb on the roster I would back him but from what I see there is not.

 

I was hoping Rex would not sign again with us because he will never get a fair shake in Chicago. I fully believe that there are fans of the Bears who would rather see Rex Grossman play like crap so they could say "I told you so" than have the Bears get back to the Super Bowl.

 

Now that being said, as soon as the game starts tomorrow, I will hoping that Orton proves me wrong. According to the board, since he has no "rust", has worked with first group so now they have chemistry, has the whole playbook, I will be expecting good things.

 

Go Bears

[bear trap]

lol You would think Beartrap was Ortons agent because every time they have gone head to head in camp or practice Rex looks better, yet by your reasoning we should start Orton based on his being a Heisman candidate for half a year, having worse stats than Rex, and him being a rusty guy or whatever other excuse you have.

 

Dude, again if Orton was that great this wouldn't be an issue. In Rex's only full year as a starter he got us to the Super Bowl. Bottom line. He had great games and poor games. At the end of the day Rex went 13-3, threw 23 TD's and 20 picks, won two playoff games in which he played well and stunk it up in the SB. I still can't believe the insane hatred towards that guy. Chicago should give that guy a frikin medal for doing what he did in 2006 after the absolute pieces of crap that have been quarterbacks for the squad in recent years. I seriously dont get it and I never will.

 

 

Nfo, I guess its not so much hatred towards Orton as it is the people who tout Orton as better than Rex based on nothing. There is no logic to it. Statistically Rex is better. They have the same winning percentage, so even your argument that "wins get you excited" bears no water. Rex has two playoff wins. The first two playoff wins for the Bears in how many years. Am I an absolute Rex backer, who owns a Rex jersey and has a Rex cut out. No. But I will give the guy credit for what he has done for the franchise. And until Orton proves statistically that he is better and looks like an NFL quarterback when I watch him in a game, IMO Rex is better and is who should be the starter. Again, if there was a better qb on the roster I would back him but from what I see there is not.

 

I was hoping Rex would not sign again with us because he will never get a fair shake in Chicago. I fully believe that there are fans of the Bears who would rather see Rex Grossman play like crap so they could say "I told you so" than have the Bears get back to the Super Bowl.

 

Now that being said, as soon as the game starts tomorrow, I will hoping that Orton proves me wrong. According to the board, since he has no "rust", has worked with first group so now they have chemistry, has the whole playbook, I will be expecting good things.

 

 

Dude, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said Orton should be the starter. I did however say that Orton deserves and is finally getting the same treatment as rex which is getting repetitions with the first team. Being a qb is all about the timing you have with your receivers. If you never get to throw to them until the coach puts you in in week 13 you more than likely won't do as good as you would have if you had a little time to practice together. That's just simple philosophy. I do remember stating that I don't care who plays opening day if its rex, great if its kyle great. As long as we win. You're the one thats constantly bashing a said player (orton) for no apparent reason other than he didn't light it up as a rookie and in spot duty last year when the coaches had enough of the other two. I'm for whoever wins the games for us. Your for whoever isn't orton which to me is prejudging someone when you haven't really given them a look.Go Bears

[bear trap]

lol You would think Beartrap was Ortons agent because every time they have gone head to head in camp or practice Rex looks better, yet by your reasoning we should start Orton based on his being a Heisman candidate for half a year, having worse stats than Rex, and him being a rusty guy or whatever other excuse you have.

 

Dude, again if Orton was that great this wouldn't be an issue. In Rex's only full year as a starter he got us to the Super Bowl. Bottom line. He had great games and poor games. At the end of the day Rex went 13-3, threw 23 TD's and 20 picks, won two playoff games in which he played well and stunk it up in the SB. I still can't believe the insane hatred towards that guy. Chicago should give that guy a frikin medal for doing what he did in 2006 after the absolute pieces of crap that have been quarterbacks for the squad in recent years. I seriously dont get it and I never will.

 

 

Nfo, I guess its not so much hatred towards Orton as it is the people who tout Orton as better than Rex based on nothing. There is no logic to it. Statistically Rex is better. They have the same winning percentage, so even your argument that "wins get you excited" bears no water. Rex has two playoff wins. The first two playoff wins for the Bears in how many years. Am I an absolute Rex backer, who owns a Rex jersey and has a Rex cut out. No. But I will give the guy credit for what he has done for the franchise. And until Orton proves statistically that he is better and looks like an NFL quarterback when I watch him in a game, IMO Rex is better and is who should be the starter. Again, if there was a better qb on the roster I would back him but from what I see there is not.

 

I was hoping Rex would not sign again with us because he will never get a fair shake in Chicago. I fully believe that there are fans of the Bears who would rather see Rex Grossman play like crap so they could say "I told you so" than have the Bears get back to the Super Bowl.

 

Now that being said, as soon as the game starts tomorrow, I will hoping that Orton proves me wrong. According to the board, since he has no "rust", has worked with first group so now they have chemistry, has the whole playbook, I will be expecting good things.

 

Go Bears

 

 

Yeah, well in 2005 Kyle went 10-5 with 9 tds and 13 ints rex has 14 tds with 13 ints in his first 15 games. Here's the big factor. In Orton's career he only has 2 multiple int games whereas rex to this point has 10. Kyle threw two picks in his rookie year against the saints and 5 against the bengals. rex has more games where he just can't stop turning the ball over. I'll take the 9 and 13 to the 14 and 13 anyday if we don't give the ball away multiple times a game. If rex can stop his horrible games great, he'd be a good qb, but if not kyle at least has a track record of not doing it multiple times in a game.

[azbearsfan]

Yeah, well in 2005 Kyle went 10-5 with 9 tds and 13 ints rex has 14 tds with 13 ints in his first 15 games. Here's the big factor. In Orton's career he only has 2 multiple int games whereas rex to this point has 10. Kyle threw two picks in his rookie year against the saints and 5 against the bengals. rex has more games where he just can't stop turning the ball over. I'll take the 9 and 13 to the 14 and 13 anyday if we don't give the ball away multiple times a game. If rex can stop his horrible games great, he'd be a good qb, but if not kyle at least has a track record of not doing it multiple times in a game.

 

So you will take the same number of INTS but less TD passes anyday?

lol Thats doesn't make much sense.

 

The point of mult INT games is moot because a) the winning percentage is the same and Rex has more multiple TD games.

 

They both have the same regular season winning percentage.

 

Rex has better career stats:rating, completion percentage, yards per completion, TD to int ratio.

 

In training camps, preseason, etc, Rex has always played better.

 

Rex also has two playoff wins, a player of the month award, and has started a SB.

 

Again, if the Bears had a quarterback that was better than Rex I'd be on board, but to this point Kyle aint it.

[nfoligno]

Again, if the Bears had a quarterback that was better than Rex I'd be on board, but to this point Kyle aint it.

 

One. You have said many times that through out camp, Rex has looked better, but IMHO, that is very much in question. From what I have read, it has gone back and forth throughout camp. One day, Orton looks very good w/ Rex is mediocre, and the next day they flip flop. I am not saying Orton has looked better. I am only saying that it doesn't seem like either QB has done enough to flat out pull away from the other QB.

 

Two. IMHO, and you will disagree, but to me this is actually a knock on Rex. I said prior to camp that I expected Rex to pull well ahead of Orton in camp, because camp doesn't provide the situation where Rex usually struggles. While we may work on our pass rush in practice, the QBs have a red jersey and do not have any legit concern of getting hit. W/o pressure, Rex has usually looked solid, or even great at times. The problem is, when there is pressure, too often Rex struggles. I find it curious Rex has not been able to truly pull away from Orton when he is in a situation that doesn't really have chance to expose the holes in his game.

 

Three. While there may be a few, I really don't think that many fans that "so" much of Orton. Yes, many fans are VERY down on Rex, but simply talking about Orton, I don't think many here simply feel he is a lock pro bowler or anything. For most fans, it is more a matter of simply wanting a legit QB competition. I have screamed for such for years. We are finally getting that. If Rex truly won the job, fine. If Orton wins the job, fine. Point is, most simply felt Orton deserved the shot he is finally getting. No more, no less.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Was that his first start officially though? My memory fails me...

 

Nope that was later on in the season.

[azbearsfan]

One. You have said many times that through out camp, Rex has looked better, but IMHO, that is very much in question. From what I have read, it has gone back and forth throughout camp. One day, Orton looks very good w/ Rex is mediocre, and the next day they flip flop. I am not saying Orton has looked better. I am only saying that it doesn't seem like either QB has done enough to flat out pull away from the other QB.

 

I have watched the videos youtube and from what I have seen its exactly the same concerns for orton that I have had in general. Passes are not accurate, deep balls are underthown, short routes are not thrown on time so defensive players are able to make plays. I have seen Rex hitting players in stride and the deep balls look like the ones that got Berrian his mega deal. Overall Rex has looked better and that is simply my analysis and I'm sure will be dismissed as being from the biggest Rex homer alive . Another thing that is odd is that Rex has been trashed for fumbled snaps even though its been reported that Orton has had more.

 

Two. IMHO, and you will disagree, but to me this is actually a knock on Rex. I said prior to camp that I expected Rex to pull well ahead of Orton in camp, because camp doesn't provide the situation where Rex usually struggles. While we may work on our pass rush in practice, the QBs have a red jersey and do not have any legit concern of getting hit. W/o pressure, Rex has usually looked solid, or even great at times. The problem is, when there is pressure, too often Rex struggles. I find it curious Rex has not been able to truly pull away from Orton when he is in a situation that doesn't really have chance to expose the holes in his game.

 

Well maybe its not a knock on Rex so much as Orton is finally improving. One thing that raised a flag for me is an article this offseason that said the rookie quarterbacks and Rex would stay after practice with Pep and work on fundamentals and technique. I really couldn't believe that Kyle wouldn't partake is getting better especially when his accuracy was a question to me. I dont know if he thought he didn't need it or what. And as far as pressure goes, Orton didn't install some high degree of confidence with his handling of pressure either. People will say "He steps into the pocket". Yeah he also stepped into the pocket when the pressure was in the middle. The pressure thing for me is more a blocking issue. Its tough for any quarterback to do well when you are constitantly on your back.

 

Three. While there may be a few, I really don't think that many fans that "so" much of Orton. Yes, many fans are VERY down on Rex, but simply talking about Orton, I don't think many here simply feel he is a lock pro bowler or anything. For most fans, it is more a matter of simply wanting a legit QB competition. I have screamed for such for years. We are finally getting that. If Rex truly won the job, fine. If Orton wins the job, fine. Point is, most simply felt Orton deserved the shot he is finally getting. No more, no less.

The problem that I really have with this is that if you are honest the worst thing you can say about Rex is that he is inconsistant. You bring up that he played better at the end of last year but such examples are usually cast aside and the worst of Rex is talked about. If you came to this board new you would think Rex is as bad a quarterback as Jon Quinn and that is not the case at all.

 

All of that being said, hopefully I will see someone tonight that is able to produce good offensive numbers and not just be a game manager. I just haven't seen that yet.

[nfoligno]

I have watched the videos youtube and from what I have seen its exactly the same concerns for orton that I have had in general. Passes are not accurate, deep balls are underthown, short routes are not thrown on time so defensive players are able to make plays. I have seen Rex hitting players in stride and the deep balls look like the ones that got Berrian his mega deal. Overall Rex has looked better and that is simply my analysis and I'm sure will be dismissed as being from the biggest Rex homer alive .

 

Hate to say it, but your right. Your analysis, even if accurate, is most likely to be dismissed based on bias. I would also point one other thing out, and why it may be difficult to accept your analysis as detached from stated bias. We all read the papers from reporters who are at camp, and not simply watching pieces from a video clip. By and large, the reports seem fairly similar. I will read about how Rex had a good practice on the Trib, and read similar in the Sun Times. Next day, they will talk about Orton looking good and Rex not. Point is, it is more than just one writer or one paper, who too may have a bias. Further point is, if we go off your comments, it would seem Orton is 100 times worse than Hutchinson, Krenzel or Quinn. I mean, you basically write that everythink he does is crap, and there is nothing good. So (a) your writing seems extreme enough to make it questionable and ( other sources who are actually at camp seem to contradict your opinion.

 

I am NOT calling you a liar, but meerly that you may be seeing what you want to see.

 

Another thing that is odd is that Rex has been trashed for fumbled snaps even though its been reported that Orton has had more.

 

That has actually been pretty well talked about, and has spawned a couple threads of its own. While there has been a ton of talk, in general I would say history and perception of the past cause discussions today. Orton had his share of fumbles, but I do not recall his having issues w/ botched snaps. Rex? That's another story. So if Orton is having issues in that regard now, it may raise an eye-brow, but would not create the reaction equal to Rex.

 

Imagine if Benson were still in camp, and putting the ball on the ground. As he has been maligned in the past for such, it would create FAR more discussion than if Forte put it on the ground a few times.

 

Well maybe its not a knock on Rex so much as Orton is finally improving.

 

Wait a minute. Go back and read your own analysis of Orton. Not only is he not improving, but he is getting worse. In fact, his play thus far makes Chad Hutchinson look like a franchise QB. How can you provide the analysis of his play as you have, and turn around and say he is improving?

 

One thing that raised a flag for me is an article this offseason that said the rookie quarterbacks and Rex would stay after practice with Pep and work on fundamentals and technique. I really couldn't believe that Kyle wouldn't partake is getting better especially when his accuracy was a question to me. I dont know if he thought he didn't need it or what.

 

As I recall, that extra practice was for footwork specifically. This is an area Rex has been weak w/ since college. I am not saying Orton is perfect in all regards, but if footwork is not one of the areas he needs help w/, why would he be there. How do you know he wasn't in the film room watching this or that because the staff wanted him working on a different part of his game which was considered a weakness.

 

You have two students. One sucks at math, but is good at science. The other sucks at science, but is good at math. If a teacher offers to stay after school to help kids in math, why would both kids be there?

 

This would be one thing if we read Orton was the last to show and the first to leave, or that he was not taking the opportunity seriously, but I have read nothing to make me believe that. I have read the staff say nothing but positive things regarding his approach to this competition. I thought then, and now, this is an issue for Orton bashers and nothing more. It is too easy to make this story sound bad against him, so long as you take no more than a superficial look at it.

 

And as far as pressure goes, Orton didn't install some high degree of confidence with his handling of pressure either. People will say "He steps into the pocket". Yeah he also stepped into the pocket when the pressure was in the middle. The pressure thing for me is more a blocking issue. Its tough for any quarterback to do well when you are constitantly on your back.

 

You LOVE stats. In 7 games last year, Rex was sacked 25 times. That is an average of 3.5 per game. Last year, behind the same OL, Orton was sacked 2 times in 3 games. And before you try, he wasn't just handing it off. In one game, he had 38 pass attempts, and was sacked just once. Even in his rookie year, he was only dropped 2 times per game (average).

 

Some of that you can say is style, but part of that is also simply on the QB. Now, no one here is saying Orton is freaking Steve Young when it comes to avoiding the rush. But in his limited time, Orton has seemed to exhibit more pocket poise than Rex. I would agree that Rex has looked like a SUPERIOR QB w/o the pressure, but Orton has simply seemed to feel the pocket better, and move around better to avoid the rush.

 

The problem that I really have with this is that if you are honest the worst thing you can say about Rex is that he is inconsistant. You bring up that he played better at the end of last year but such examples are usually cast aside and the worst of Rex is talked about. If you came to this board new you would think Rex is as bad a quarterback as Jon Quinn and that is not the case at all.

 

guilty as charged. I am among Rex' bashers. But I would disagree the worst thing you can say is he is inconsistent. I believe he doesn't have it upstairs. I don't believe he can read the field well/quickly. This issue is exacebrated when he is rushed. I don't believe he has pocket presence. Not sure if that should be categorized as upstairs or not, but it'll serve. When Rex can sit back in the pocket w/ time, he can be a great QB. Problem is, few QBs in the NFL have such a luxury. Most QBs, even behind the best OLs, will deal w/ pressure. I would argue this is the single greatest reason for his inconsistency. IMHO, most games you see Rex having solid numbers are the games he faced the least pressure. When teams can pressure him, that is when you see "bad Rex".

 

So no, I would not agree the worst thing you can say about him is he is inconsistent. I think that is a by-product of what I believe his worst trait is. Just not having it upstairs.

 

All of that being said, hopefully I will see someone tonight that is able to produce good offensive numbers and not just be a game manager. I just haven't seen that yet.

 

We agree on this point. With Orton, there is hope (at least for some) but there is not legit knowledge that Orton can actually be a good QB. He needs to prove that in a game situation. If I see nothing but a bunch of dinks and dunks, watch how fast I turn on Orton. While I do not believe it is absolutely necessary to throw bombs downfield, you have to throw the ball more than 5 yards too. Orton has A LOT to prove, and it begins tonight.

[azbearsfan]

Hate to say it, but your right. Your analysis, even if accurate, is most likely to be dismissed based on bias. I would also point one other thing out, and why it may be difficult to accept your analysis as detached from stated bias. We all read the papers from reporters who are at camp, and not simply watching pieces from a video clip. By and large, the reports seem fairly similar. I will read about how Rex had a good practice on the Trib, and read similar in the Sun Times. Next day, they will talk about Orton looking good and Rex not. Point is, it is more than just one writer or one paper, who too may have a bias. Further point is, if we go off your comments, it would seem Orton is 100 times worse than Hutchinson, Krenzel or Quinn. I mean, you basically write that everythink he does is crap, and there is nothing good. So (a) your writing seems extreme enough to make it questionable and ( other sources who are actually at camp seem to contradict your opinion.

 

I am NOT calling you a liar, but meerly that you may be seeing what you want to see.

 

Well, if you go and watch all the video of the practices you too may see what I see. And although your dramatic flair is humerous, I would never suggest Orton is as bad as those three hacks. I merely suggest that Orton is not as good as Rex. You have to be careful to differentiate actual anaysis and sarcastic remarks meant more for other posters. For instance, if I jab MadLith about Orton skipping passes with his rag arm, thats meant more towards him then Orton as Mad and I have agreed to disagree on Orton vs Grossman.

And again, statistically Orton is not better than Rex, nor has he ever been better in camp and preseason.

 

That has actually been pretty well talked about, and has spawned a couple threads of its own. While there has been a ton of talk, in general I would say history and perception of the past cause discussions today. Orton had his share of fumbles, but I do not recall his having issues w/ botched snaps. Rex? That's another story. So if Orton is having issues in that regard now, it may raise an eye-brow, but would not create the reaction equal to Rex.

 

Yes it perhaps would not cause the reaction, but it seems a bit hypocritical to knock Rex for it and not Kyle. And to be honest, the problem probably lies with the center since every quarterback in camp has had the issue.

 

 

Wait a minute. Go back and read your own analysis of Orton. Not only is he not improving, but he is getting worse. In fact, his play thus far makes Chad Hutchinson look like a franchise QB. How can you provide the analysis of his play as you have, and turn around and say he is improving?

 

Yes but how could Kyle not improve? All he has to do is get it to the receiver in the air.

 

As I recall, that extra practice was for footwork specifically. This is an area Rex has been weak w/ since college. I am not saying Orton is perfect in all regards, but if footwork is not one of the areas he needs help w/, why would he be there. How do you know he wasn't in the film room watching this or that because the staff wanted him working on a different part of his game which was considered a weakness.

 

You have two students. One sucks at math, but is good at science. The other sucks at science, but is good at math. If a teacher offers to stay after school to help kids in math, why would both kids be there?

 

This would be one thing if we read Orton was the last to show and the first to leave, or that he was not taking the opportunity seriously, but I have read nothing to make me believe that. I have read the staff say nothing but positive things regarding his approach to this competition. I thought then, and now, this is an issue for Orton bashers and nothing more. It is too easy to make this story sound bad against him, so long as you take no more than a superficial look at it.

 

Its not Brady we are talking about here. You would think Orton would take any chance to get better that he could, since he is not guaranteed to start. You know if the situation was reversed people would bash Rex for not working hard.

 

And maybe both kids go because the good one wants to be great!!!!

 

You LOVE stats. In 7 games last year, Rex was sacked 25 times. That is an average of 3.5 per game. Last year, behind the same OL, Orton was sacked 2 times in 3 games. And before you try, he wasn't just handing it off. In one game, he had 38 pass attempts, and was sacked just once. Even in his rookie year, he was only dropped 2 times per game (average).

 

Some of that you can say is style, but part of that is also simply on the QB. Now, no one here is saying Orton is freaking Steve Young when it comes to avoiding the rush. But in his limited time, Orton has seemed to exhibit more pocket poise than Rex. I would agree that Rex has looked like a SUPERIOR QB w/o the pressure, but Orton has simply seemed to feel the pocket better, and move around better to avoid the rush.

 

lol I do love stats. Career wise Orton has 32 sacks in 18 games for an average of 1.78 per game and Rex has been dropped 56 times in 32 games for an average of 1.75 per game.

And if you break it down even more, 16 of the 25 sacks came in Rex's second stint, in which you, yourself said Rex looked good. And if you break dow even more you will see that 11 of those sacks came against the Seahawks and Giants and Rex had over 250 yards passing in those games, no pics, and his rating was above 80 in both games.

 

 

 

Again, Rex has been inconsistant at worst and hasn't been given a fare deal IMO.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully Orton proves me wrong tonight.

 

Go Bears.