The Wolfe taking it seriously this yr

[DrunkBomber]

[/b]

 

 

Sorry, but I think you're really mislead by your assumptions on Wolfe, any running back that can do this can be a factor in the NFL. Needless to say the packers defense is pretty good in their own rights. You obviously don't give wolfe enough credit with his speed and ability to make someone miss. Was that Barrnett that he made look silly? If the coaches have your mentality, they are screwing over the team, because wolfe has more open field moves than peterson. Don't get me wrong I like peterson, but he doesn't have the same ability as opposed to wolfe's ability to pick up third and longs that some wouldn't think possible. Peterson is more like forte and jones with less talent or ability. Wolfe is a completely different runner than all three of the others. If you can't see that your just intentionally being bias. And if you didn't see anything from that highlight, click on the screen pass to wolfe in the New Orleans game. He has what it takes, and a lot more!

Just because you disagree with me doesnt magically mean you are right and Im wrong. I said I know he is fast which is fine. If thats all it took more track stars would be in the NFL. To single out my opinion on one player and compare it to the coaches mentality is also ridiculous. Ive been pretty consistent with all my thoughts about the team and for the most part they have all been accurate. Read through some old threads, if most people on this board were coaches or GMs Berrian would have 90% of our WR budget, Briggs and Urlacher would be gone, Flacco, Brennan or Chris Sims would be our starting qb, Hester would be our starting RB etc. To try and use Wolfes "highlights" from the serving size they come from is laughable. I suppose Aaron Rodgers is better than Favre because he did better against the Cowboys last year too right? I dont think AP is any sort of solution either, congratulations on trying to justify that our 4th string RB is better than our 3rd string running back. I dont want either one of them on the field, but AP is better than Wolfe. So I would hold off on declaring my opinion wrong and yours right until its justified, which it isnt.

 

Also, if the "highlight" videos are geared for me dont waste your time. A clip of 1 or 2 plays from a second year guy who barely saw the field doesnt prove anything besides defenses didnt know what to expect.

[jason]

I agree that there is a small sample size for the number of plays Wolfe has been in...but it only stands to reason when looking at his small body of work (pun intended) that he's capable of repeating what he has done.

 

In VERY limited time, something you hold against him, he's broken down a few good players. He's absolutely made NFL guys look silly. Surely if he gets the ball more often we can expect more similar plays (provided he's not run up the gut against the Vikings).

 

Aside from Hester, I'd go out on a limb and say that Wolfe is the most explosive player on the Bears' roster.

[nfoligno]

Surely if he gets the ball more often we can expect more similar plays

 

Didn't you, and many others, say the exact same thing about Mark Anderson two years ago? Look at what he is doing on a limited basis. Make him as starter and watch his sack numbers hit pro bowl levels. Well, he was made a starter, and his numbers (and play in general) tanked.

 

I am not saying Wolfe should not get more plays. I am not saying he shouldn't get more opportunities. But just because a player does some good things when in a limited role, does not necessarily mean he would be capable of providing that same play on a greater level.

 

Every time you see a relief pitcher shut down the opponent in an inning, do you immediatly believe he would be a stud as a starter?

[nfoligno]

Drunkman,

 

While I am closer to agreeing w/ you in general about Wolfe, I think some of the comments you are trying to argue w/ are pretty poinless.

 

Speed - Yes. Wolfe is the fastest RB on the roster. Forte is fast for his size, but not even close to Wolfe. AP? Um, no. KJ. Frankly, there is no way to really know how fast he is right now, but especially as he is still not 100%, I think it VERY safe to say he is not close to as fast as Wolfe. Even prior to his injury, it would be close, but now?

 

Quickness - There are ways to test this, and I would argue those tests are better than the much talked about 40 time to talk about speed. 10 yard dash, as well as the vertical and long jump all are good measures of burst. The short shuttle is a great measure of quickness too, as it shows how well a player can excelerate, cut, and excelerate again. I am not saying I know how each player did in these, but I am saying there are ways to measure quickness.

 

Aside from all that though, I think it pretty safe to say he is the quickest RB we have. It was one of his key attributes coming out of college, and one of the areas coaches have raved about too. He is quicker than AP and Forte, and again, as KJ is not even 100%, safe to say he is not as quick as Wolfe.

 

Pass catching - This is wide open to debate, and far from fact. AP is a pass catcher, and Forte is supposed to be as well. Wolfe was considered one of the best pass catchers in the draft, so I think he ranks up there w/ them. Where I think Jason distinguishes Wolfe from the other two is his ability after the catch. As Jason see's it, all can catch the ball, but AP does little after the catch, where as Wolfe as the quickness and speed to rack up the YAC. This is far from fact, but the argument does have quite a bit of logical reasoning.

 

Open field running - Again, this is not fact. Wolfe may well have the best moves to avoid the tackle, but at the same time, there is more to open field running then this one feat alone, IMHO. If you are good at avoiding a hit, but go down easily once hit, are you the best open field runner? What if Forte is good at avoiding tackles, though not as good as Wolfe, but better breaking through tackles when a defender gets his hands on him?

 

On pure speed and quickness, I think it safe to say Wolfe is tops. In that, I would agree w/ Jason. But I am not among those that believe that means he is a great RB. There is a lot more to being a RB than simply winning track competitions.

[bear trap]

Surely if he gets the ball more often we can expect more similar plays

 

Didn't you, and many others, say the exact same thing about Mark Anderson two years ago? Look at what he is doing on a limited basis. Make him as starter and watch his sack numbers hit pro bowl levels. Well, he was made a starter, and his numbers (and play in general) tanked.

 

I am not saying Wolfe should not get more plays. I am not saying he shouldn't get more opportunities. But just because a player does some good things when in a limited role, does not necessarily mean he would be capable of providing that same play on a greater level.

 

Every time you see a relief pitcher shut down the opponent in an inning, do you immediatly believe he would be a stud as a starter?

 

 

That's funny, I don't recall anyone in this argument saying Wolfe should be the starter or get a larger majority of the carries than forte. I do recall a few saying that he's a better 3rd down running back than peterson. Regardless of what bomber thinks Wolfe showed more promise in the limited amount of 3rd down carries than peterson did last year. Sure peterson is a capable back to take the 3rd down packages, but in wolfe's limited tries last year he showed more promise. He can take the screen pass for huge gains primarily because of his open field style of running which ap doesn't possess. So not even giving him a chance this year is a waste of talent. Besides this point is irrelevant, because from the way things look in TC wolfe is getting a lot of carries and I look for him to be the 3rd down change of pace back. AP does things well, but not great, and wolfe's ability to make people miss is great. AP is better suited to take the captain spot on Special teams, because BA is a big loss for that unit and he's too similar to forte and jones to be the 3rd down back. Look at what bradshaw did for the giants last year, I am more than confident that wolfe could do that for us this year.

[AZ54]

Who is saying Wolfe is a great RB? The only points I see here are 1) that he shouldn't be on the team and 2) the other side, of which I am part of, saying he has the ability to contribute to the offense in certain situations mainly 3rd and long.

[nfoligno]

I know how Jason feels, and was likley talking in more general terms than specific to the threat.

 

With that said, while I agree Wolfe offers more as a 3rd down back, the one thing I believe he must prove first is that he can block. As crucial as anything else for a RB on 3rd downs is the ability to block. He will not always be a target, and often will have to block. Can he? Even when he is a target, he will often likely have to first chip block and then go into his route.

 

Let me ask this though. Why do we need a 3rd down back? W/ Benson, it made more sense as he was not a good blocker and not very fast, but now it looks like we may have a starting tailback who should also fill the role we previously had to replace on 3rd downs. When TJ was our starter, we didn't pull him on 3rd downs because he was our best 3rd down back too. Might the same not be true of Forte?

 

I have no problem w/ using Wolfe more, as a change of pace, but (a) I am not sure we need a 3rd down back role and ( Wolfe must prove he can block before we can trust him w/ such a role, if we do in fact decide we need one.

[nfoligno]

Who is saying Wolfe is a great RB? The only points I see here are 1) that he shouldn't be on the team and 2) the other side, of which I am part of, saying he has the ability to contribute to the offense in certain situations mainly 3rd and long.

 

Again, I am more arguing w/ Jason, who I believe has before asked, "Why can Wolfe not be the next Warrick Dunn"?

 

As for his being a 3rd down back, as I mentioned in another post,

 

(a) Why do we need one? W/ Benson, a 3rd down back made more sense, but did we need a 3rd down back when TJ was the starter? If Forte is half the hype, it would seem he is the best back to have in the backfield on 3rd downs.

 

( More than receiving, Wolfe must first prove he can block to become a 3rd down back.

[ChileBear]

Again, I am more arguing w/ Jason, who I believe has before asked, "Why can Wolfe not be the next Warrick Dunn"?

 

As for his being a 3rd down back, as I mentioned in another post,

 

(a) Why do we need one? W/ Benson, a 3rd down back made more sense, but did we need a 3rd down back when TJ was the starter? If Forte is half the hype, it would seem he is the best back to have in the backfield on 3rd downs.

 

( More than receiving, Wolfe must first prove he can block to become a 3rd down back.

That made me go "hmm." And I agree with you Nfo. If we have Forts and now KJ and AP, Wolfe is an unnecessary luxury, taking up roster space from, say, an OT or OG. Now why aren't those positions overstocked?

[AZ54]

I agree that it appears Forte can be a 3-down RB. Kevin Jones might be too but nobody has seen this guy run and given his injury history it's still a big question mark. I think signing KJ was the right thing to do but he probably won't even see the field until after the first 4 games, or longer. Seeing how quickly some guys like Dusty and Rex got thrown under the bus when injured it's odd so many would have such high hopes for Jones. IF both guys work out to what we believe is their full potential then there's less of a need for a guy like Wolfe. Nonetheless, I still like having a guy with his skills on the team and we have the added benefit of making AP a special teams player first but still there as a backup RB if the need arises.

[jason]

Surely if he gets the ball more often we can expect more similar plays

 

Didn't you, and many others, say the exact same thing about Mark Anderson two years ago? Look at what he is doing on a limited basis. Make him as starter and watch his sack numbers hit pro bowl levels. Well, he was made a starter, and his numbers (and play in general) tanked.

 

I am not saying Wolfe should not get more plays. I am not saying he shouldn't get more opportunities. But just because a player does some good things when in a limited role, does not necessarily mean he would be capable of providing that same play on a greater level.

 

Every time you see a relief pitcher shut down the opponent in an inning, do you immediatly believe he would be a stud as a starter?

 

I know where you are going with this, but it wasn't my intention.

 

If Wolfe gets 30 carries a game, he is almost guaranteed to get banged up. Therefore, more carries more stats, more moves, etc.

 

However, if he gets more than he did, and is not used as the #1, workhorse RB, I think it's well within reason to expect him to break someone else on defense down on a consistent basis.

[jason]

That made me go "hmm." And I agree with you Nfo. If we have Forts and now KJ and AP, Wolfe is an unnecessary luxury, taking up roster space from, say, an OT or OG. Now why aren't those positions overstocked?

 

I thought the same thing. Which is why I wasn't all that excited when the Bears signed Kevin Jones. I think HE is the luxury or unnecessary acquisition. I felt beforehand that Wolfe and AP were enough to take the carries when Forte is tired.

 

And, yes NFO, I DO think that Wolfe has the potential to be the next Warrick Dunn. There is something to be said for a good player in the NFL. It means the guy is one of the best in the world. It's an entirely different thing when an NFL player makes another NFL player look foolish, something Wolfe did more than once last year in limited playing time. I believe that if he gets more carries, but not the majority, he will pull off moves and jukes that will just pad his highlight reel, and prove his ability. If this guy was 6' and 210 lbs., we wouldn't be having this discussion because he would have went in the first round based upon college production. IMHO, AP should see VERY minimal carries this year, and after Forte, Wolfe should see the second most.

[DrunkBomber]

That made me go "hmm." And I agree with you Nfo. If we have Forts and now KJ and AP, Wolfe is an unnecessary luxury, taking up roster space from, say, an OT or OG. Now why aren't those positions overstocked?

This is pretty much my point put more bluntly. We have zero depth on the line so having a 4th string running back isnt needed unless he is head and shoulders better at certain things than the other backs, which he isnt.

 

Also, NFO, I dont know if you read my last post but I said I know Wolfe is fast but theres a lot more to being a good running back than being fast.

[AZ54]

If we have zero depth on the Oline why keep one of those "zero" guys? Better to keep a RB who is quick enough to avoid the unblocked defender.

[DrunkBomber]

If we have zero depth on the Oline why keep one of those "zero" guys? Better to keep a RB who is quick enough to avoid the unblocked defender.

I think using the roster spot on someone like LeCharles Bently might be more beneficial at this point.

[nfoligno]

We agree on one thing. AP doesn't get jack for carries this year. If KJ is out, AP will get some touches to we don't over do it w/ Forte, but if KJ is healthy, AP may not see the offense once.

 

The question is, how do you split carries between KJ and Wolfe, if both are healthy. If healthy, I think KJ is going to see FAR more carries, and Wolfe will be more of a gadget play here and there.

 

You say KJ is the luxury. I might agree if not for the experience factor. W/o KJ, AP (probably our least talented) RB is our most experienced. We are counting on a rookie to lead us. Wolfe has no more than a handful of carries. AP, which a fantastic special teams player, is simply not a very good RB. KJ was not a luxury. He was a need. Our backfield is simply lacking too much in depth.

 

To me, AP is the luxury. W/o AP, I would argue our 1-2-3 backfield makes sense. AP is a special teams specialist who we have at RB on the depth chart. He is the luxury.

[KiLoc69]

/popcorn

[DrunkBomber]

I had to figure someone would try and use the second half as a preseason game as an I told you so and think of how stupid it is.

[azbearsfan]

lol Better than looking like crap during the second half of a preseason game.

[Connorbear]

I think using the roster spot on someone like LeCharles Bently might be more beneficial at this point.

I don't care what his agent says, he hasn't been signed yet and I question whether he is healthy or not.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

lol Better than looking like crap during the second half of a preseason game.

I know. Its going to take more than scrub time last season, comparisons to Warrick Dunn and scrub time in the second half of a preseason game to make me a believer on Wolfe. Id be happy to eat crow if Im wrong and would love for him to become a great back, I just dont see it happening. But man, is a preseason I told you so really stupid.

[jason]

I know. Its going to take more than scrub time last season, comparisons to Warrick Dunn and scrub time in the second half of a preseason game to make me a believer on Wolfe. Id be happy to eat crow if Im wrong and would love for him to become a great back, I just dont see it happening. But man, is a preseason I told you so really stupid.

 

You know, I just don't think you honestly believe what you are saying. I'm not saying "I told you so", but it seems that unless Wolfe goes for 1500 yards you will continue to think him a wasted draft selection.

 

Scrub time or not, it's ignorant to deny Wolfe's skills. This kid looks lightning quick. He made the other players in at the same time look s l o w. Even if they are 2nd and 3rd stringers, on talent alone he looked to be a man among boys (despite the contradiction of size).

 

His long run was in and through the hole before the defense even knew what hit them. And his TD reception out of the backfield is a play that no other player on the Bears offense aside from maybe Hester would have made. He's quite simply a play maker, an explosive offensive threat that seems to make big things happen when he's in the game. He's definitely not the guy who needs to see the ball 30 times a game, nor is he the guy to run up the pipe for the hard 3 yard gain (even though he made a tough run off guard in traffic during the game), but he's the homerun hitter out of the backfield that the Bears otherwise lack, and have lacked for years.

[DrunkBomber]

You know, I just don't think you honestly believe what you are saying. I'm not saying "I told you so", but it seems that unless Wolfe goes for 1500 yards you will continue to think him a wasted draft selection.

 

Scrub time or not, it's ignorant to deny Wolfe's skills. This kid looks lightning quick. He made the other players in at the same time look s l o w. Even if they are 2nd and 3rd stringers, on talent alone he looked to be a man among boys (despite the contradiction of size).

 

His long run was in and through the hole before the defense even knew what hit them. And his TD reception out of the backfield is a play that no other player on the Bears offense aside from maybe Hester would have made. He's quite simply a play maker, an explosive offensive threat that seems to make big things happen when he's in the game. He's definitely not the guy who needs to see the ball 30 times a game, nor is he the guy to run up the pipe for the hard 3 yard gain (even though he made a tough run off guard in traffic during the game), but he's the homerun hitter out of the backfield that the Bears otherwise lack, and have lacked for years.

The original post wasnt meant for you, it was replying to the /popcorn post.

[Pixote]

I also really liked the way Wolfe played last night. I do not care if it was the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string he was playing against, it does not take away from the fact he decisive, hit the hole quick without hesitation, had excellent speed and good moves in the open field. You can not take away the physical attributes he displayed just because he was playing against ## stringers.

[flea]

Wolfe showed why some off us really like him