Most important traits for our QB

[nfoligno]

In looking at which QB starts for us, I read about many things each does well, but that got me thinking. What traits are going to be most important.

 

Downfield passing is one that so often comes up, but simply not what I consider all that important. In a perfect world, it would be great to have a QB that can connent deep w/ his reciever, but I just question how much of our game will be centered about that. We have Hester to run downfield, but beyond the WR, or even the QB, I simply question our OL. How many here believe we have an OL that can pass protect long enough to allow WRs to run deep routes. IMHO, if we try to allow deep patterns to open up, we will see a lot of sacks.

 

Pocket poise. This is an area I have always felt is key, and w/ our OL struggling again, should be again. Rex has never looked good IMHO in this area. Orton has looked better, but enough? As QBs wear red jerseys in practice, I don't think we will know this until the preseason games are played.

 

Accuracy - This is a huge key IMHO. I am not simply talking about how completes 5 or 6 in practice. I have read about many one handed grabs, or catches where the receiver just made a great play on the ball. What I would like to know his which QB has looked best hitting WRs in stride. IMHO, one of the biggest keys to out passing game this year will be yards after the catch. Hit Hester on a short crossing route in stride, and he can go the distance. Hit Booker in stride, and watch the chains move. On the other hand, hit those same WRs, on those same routes, but make the WR slow his route to make the catch, and watch his YAC drop to nill. So often I have watched our guys reach back to catch the ball, taking themselves out of stride, and they got tackled immediately. At the same time, I watch opponents hit their WRs on short routes, in stride, and then easily out-pace the DB for a nice 1st down. So for me, it isn't simply who has the better completion %, but where did the QB place those passes.

 

There are many other attributes, but pocket poise and accuracy are two of the biggest I am looking for out of these two QBs. I don't care nearly as much as far they can throw the ball downfield. That is likely 5% of less of the passes anyway. I am far more concerned about the other 95% of the time.

[AZ54]

I would like to pick accuracy as the key but I think it's going to come down to decision making. Be accurate all you want but if you are throwing to guy who is double covered it may not matter. While our skill position players are largely unproven I feel we do have plenty of athletic ability among them. Given our QB situation I think the best man will be the guy who makes the "easy" play and let's the skill players do their thing. We don't need to be aggressive throwing into coverage with our defense and special teams.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I hate to give a Bears88 post but...

 

Accuracy- we can't turn the ball over. If Forte can run it well with a little help from GW and AP/KJ, and we don't throw any INTs, we'll be in business. It's really that simple. We don't need downfield passing, just a couple long ones here and there.

[ParkerBear7]

Pocket poise. This is an area I have always felt is key, and w/ our OL struggling again, should be again. Rex has never looked good IMHO in this area. Orton has looked better, but enough? As QBs wear red jerseys in practice, I don't think we will know this until the preseason games are played.

 

I mostly agree with this except for the past year and a half. I remember Rex showing good pocket poise, decision making, and good touch prior to all the injuries making him think to much about getting hit. He even was semi-mobile when he nearly rushed for a td at the Metrodome but blew out his acl instead.

 

 

Decision making and Accuracy are important but probably not 95% - if that were the case Greise and a few other one dimensional QB's would still be here -- Kordell?? Steve Stenstom?? Shane....et ol.

 

Here are 2 examples of guys that could make all the throws well enough and combined with fairly good decision making and accuracy were pretty darn effective -- Erik Kramer and Jim Miller -- only problem is that they and the OL could not stay healthy. I think Rex and Kyle may be able to duplicate these guys perfomance providing the OL gives them time and the Play calling utilizes their strengths with out being predictable. Rex has already teased us with what he is capable of doing which is why it is so frustrating when he is inconsistent. Kyle has poved Brian G to be deemed expendable.

 

I can live with physical mistakes but the stupid BONEHEAD mistakes have to stop!

[Mongo3451]

I'm going to throw "anticipation" out there. To me this is the most important trait of any QB. Someone is always going to be open. Sometimes the QB does not see it, but the great ones always do. Rex has proven horrible at this. Kyle is not good either, but has not had the opportunity. IMO - seeing the play unfold in advance is the key to accuracy, pocket poise and making big plays.

[nfoligno]

I also talk about this in "reading or seeing the field". The ability to see that FS lean in one direction. The ability to immediatly see one receiver is double covered, and to quickly find your next target. To see that LB who showed blitz prior to the snap is in fact back peddling into the path of the receiver about to break accross the middle.

 

Rex is slow to see/read the field IMHO. That problem is magnified when he is pressures, and forced to make decisions prior to getting a read on the field, and thus his throws become a greater gamble, as he has not accounted for all the potential problems.

 

I have no idea how well Orton is reading the field. Can he be worse than Rex? God help us if that is the case.

[Lucky Luciano]

In looking at which QB starts for us, I read about many things each does well, but that got me thinking. What traits are going to be most important.

 

here are the traits i consider that are needed to become a successful nfl quarterback:

 

1) first of all, he has to have the physical tools to excel at that position. he has to have the size, speed, attitude, and strength that past successful NFL players have PROVEN to be neccessary to play that position at the highest level. also, in my opinion, 6'1 is the absolute bare minimum in size for an nfl qb. 6'3" - 6'5" is the optimum size and what i would shoot for.

 

2) the most important attribute a qb with the basic physical tools can have is accuracy. without it he will fail miserably. this involves being able to think "quickly" in three dimentional space which is paramount to understanding in a fraction of a second where the ball has to go and getting it there in relation to the defenders and receivers, all in motion, with reasonable expectations of a completion.

 

i have to disagree somewhat with your statement about the ability to throw the long ball. without arm strength to make the deep throw he limits the size of the field which will make it much, much harder to succeed in the nfl against todays defenses. even if he is inaccurate on a long ball it still keeps defenses honest if they know his arm is at least strong enough to make those types of passes. that said, a MUST in my opinion is to have enough arm strength to consistantly make accurate throws in the 10-20 yd range of the field.

 

3) mental aspects that are a must:

 

A) he has to be able to feel pressure from the outside (that mental clock ticking the seconds off) and compliment it by stepping up into the pocket or release and scramble. without it he won't stay healthy or make the plays that are needed to succeed. although it's not neccessary to have the running abilities like a cunningham, vick etc. he does need to have the ability to roll out with authority and make short yardage when neccessary.

 

the next is being able to read a defense and understand where and how the defense is going to react to the play he hopes to run and make the decision whether to run that play as designed or change it on the fly. usually this comes with game experience but more than a few fail to ever grasp this situation.

 

C) he needs heart and a driving desire to win which includes the ability to lead his teamates.

[bowlingtwig]

I completely agree. Accuracy is my biggest thing. I have read alot how Orton is doing a great job hitting receivers in stride and throwing the ball between defenders while hitting WR. But my biggest thing, is the play of the Oline. They need to be able to open up running lanes. Our game plan has always started with our running game so they need to open lanes for Forte. If they can do that it will open the passing game up where Grossman and Orton can then succeed. I don't really have a favorite out of the 2 QB's. I just want to see what they can do. I wouldn't mind seeing TB finally release Chris Sims and us bringing him in to see what he can do. I am not saying that he should start but I am sure he would do better than our current #3, whatever his name is. I heard of his name but it excapes me right now and I don't care that much to look it up.

[Lucky Luciano]

I completely agree. Accuracy is my biggest thing. I have read alot how Orton is doing a great job hitting receivers in stride and throwing the ball between defenders while hitting WR. But my biggest thing, is the play of the Oline. They need to be able to open up running lanes. Our game plan has always started with our running game so they need to open lanes for Forte. If they can do that it will open the passing game up where Grossman and Orton can then succeed. I don't really have a favorite out of the 2 QB's. I just want to see what they can do. I wouldn't mind seeing TB finally release Chris Sims and us bringing him in to see what he can do. I am not saying that he should start but I am sure he would do better than our current #3, whatever his name is. I heard of his name but it excapes me right now and I don't care that much to look it up.

 

the Oline also needs to open up passing lanes for the qb to make the throws. if the line is always back on it's heels or getting pushed into the pocket it doubles the problems for the qb especially if he doesn't roll out well.

 

as far as TB... forget simms, i would like to pick up favre from them in a double trade.

[bowlingtwig]

Favre would be ideal but I am just being realistic. I don't believe he would sign with us.

[Zod]

I read an interesting article on ESPN a while back. And they did a statistical study of which stat for QBs correlated more with the QB's success on the field e.i. wins. And it was yards per completion which shown to correlate more with on the field success, such as third down conversions and drives resulting in touchdowns. Just some food for thought.

[AZ54]

I'm going to stay the odd man out. Accuracy alone isn't worth much if you throw to a guy who is well covered. Rex has thrown many passes right at WR in stride only to see a defender jump the route and INT the pass. Was he inaccurate or was it a bad decision? Much of what is being said about accuracy (reading the safety etc.) really isn't "accuracy" it's reading the field and knowing where to throw the ball or rather who to throw the ball to.

 

Obviously if the QB can't throw reasonably accurately nothing else matters anyway. Right now with this damaged goods Oline I think we need a QB who can make a good decision quickly because there won't be much time to read defenses after the snap. I probably lean more towards Rex but IMO this need means Orton has the advantage over Rex. Conversely it's Rex's accuracy that makes him shine so well in training camp.

[nfoligno]

For the most, we agree. The one area of disagreement is arm strength or downfield ability.

 

My point is not that, in general, this is a worthless trait. My point is specific to us. I think it VERY realistic to say our OL is not looking great. It was awful last year, and I am not sure (a) St. Clair is a big upgrade over Tait or that Metcalf/Beekman/whoever is an upgrade over a one armed Brown. Also, w/ all the changes, even if you had individual upgrades, I think you take a chemistry hit, which I think is essential to an OL playing well.

 

So, on the assumption we are not going to have a very strong OL, the question I would ask is, how often will the QB have the time in the pocket to allow WR to run downfield routes. Having a strong arm is great, but if you are sacked before the WR gets downfield, how much has that arm helped?

 

For the record, I am not saying it is fine to have a noodle arm QB. If the QB can even throw 15 yards on a rope, then you have trouble. But to me, 90+ % of your passes are not downfield, and those are far more crucial than the couple downfield shots you take.

 

Do you shorten the field some? Sure. But I would argue it this way. Okay, you have Rex who is capable of throwing deep. Regardless, defenses stack the box and show ZERO respect for the downfield threats because they can attack the QB to avoid such threats. Downfield speed is not feared because a QB can't throw downfield from his back. On the other hand, if you have a QB who is hitting WRs in stride, you are more likely to force defenses to respect the passing game. If the QB is hitting a receiver left open due to the blitz, that can have as dramatic effect as a QB who hits a receiver downfield.

[nfoligno]

I read an interesting article on ESPN a while back. And they did a statistical study of which stat for QBs correlated more with the QB's success on the field e.i. wins. And it was yards per completion which shown to correlate more with on the field success, such as third down conversions and drives resulting in touchdowns. Just some food for thought.

 

Not sure how much this tells us. If a QB hits a WR 5 yards beyond the LOS, but that WR is hit in stride and turns it upfield for a 20 yard gain, statistically, that would be no different from a QB who hit a WR 25 yards downfield and was tackled immediately.

 

Watch Brady hit Welker. That is a combo that will put up a very nice ypc, yet VERY few of Welkers completions are actually caught downfield.

[Lucky Luciano]

So, on the assumption we are not going to have a very strong OL, the question I would ask is, how often will the QB have the time in the pocket to allow WR to run downfield routes. Having a strong arm is great, but if you are sacked before the WR gets downfield, how much has that arm helped?

 

i just can't believe that a situation like ours is going to remain stasis for years at a time. so for our franchise to look for/aquire a qb who doesn't have the arm strength to make those throws accurate or otherwise would be a huge mistake.

 

i would also like to add that a five step drop and launch the ball downfield without waiting for a WR to reach this 25-30 yd depth before making the throw is realistic for a qb with a strong arm by him adjusting the trajectory of the pass to compensate for the WR getting into that zone.

 

plus, even if you only throw long once or twice a game it keeps the safeties from playing tight and stuffing your run game if they know they 'can' get beat on a long scoring play. it opens up your running game and your short to medium passing game as well if a WR can clear them out of the short zones during a series even if used as a decoy. the DB's have to react immediately or get beaten by the WR on a deep route.

 

For the record, I am not saying it is fine to have a noodle arm QB. If the QB can even throw 15 yards on a rope, then you have trouble. But to me, 90+ % of your passes are not downfield, and those are far more crucial than the couple downfield shots you take.

 

agree, most are NOT downfield passes and the short to medium depth is the most proficient passing game. but... again, you need to also have it in the defenses mindset they need to be wary of the long ball too to open up these shorter routes.

 

Do you shorten the field some? Sure. But I would argue it this way. Okay, you have Rex who is capable of throwing deep. Regardless, defenses stack the box and show ZERO respect for the downfield threats because they can attack the QB to avoid such threats. Downfield speed is not feared because a QB can't throw downfield from his back. On the other hand, if you have a QB who is hitting WRs in stride, you are more likely to force defenses to respect the passing game. If the QB is hitting a receiver left open due to the blitz, that can have as dramatic effect as a QB who hits a receiver downfield.

 

defenses at this time are stacking the box AND blitzing because rex has shown a flaw in his game by not being able to handle the pressure and/or recognize these packages as they develop. the offensive line also shares in this dilema with grossman as they are letting more defenders through than our backs and te's are able to pick up in their blocking duties.

 

i want to also add that some of these blitzes are LB blitzes and the safeties are playing deep zones in passing situations. they are willing to give up the intermediate passing yardage to rattle him into an INT or a sack and at the worst they give up the 5-10 yd receptions by covering the long ball threat with deep safeties. if he couldn't at least throw a long ball they would just stack the box like they did against griese or other qb's like s. matthews who couldn't make the throws and force everything in an area 10-15 yds from the LOS.

[BearSox]

I just want to see two things from whoever will be our QB... DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER! and, DON'T BE STUPID!

 

As an offense as a whole, I mainly want to see us minimize 3 and outs.

[AZ54]

I totally agree our Oline won't be able to hold their blocks for 3 sec much less a 4 or 5 sec route to develop. However, we can call a short to intermediate passing game and still have the safeties respect the deep threat IF our WR can demonstrate the ability to get YAC. You won't get that with Booker but I hope we get it with at least two of the following: Hester, Davis, Bradley, Bennett, or Lloyd, and I'll add one more guy Olsen.

[Mongo3451]

I totally agree our Oline won't be able to hold their blocks for 3 sec much less a 4 or 5 sec route to develop. However, we can call a short to intermediate passing game and still have the safeties respect the deep threat IF our WR can demonstrate the ability to get YAC. You won't get that with Booker but I hope we get it with at least two of the following: Hester, Davis, Bradley, Bennett, or Lloyd, and I'll add one more guy Olsen.

Add Kellen Davis to the list. 6'7" big, fast and athletic.