Hass versus Booker versus Bradley

[AZ54]

I'm anxiously awaiting the preseason games to see how our WR situation will settle out. What seems clear is that Hass is again catching everything thrown at him. In some of the highlight videos I see him out there against the #1 defense catching passes all over the field including deep against Vasher.

 

What we appear to know so far is that Hester isn't going anywhere, neither is Bennett or Davis. It seems Lloyd has played well and seems headed for a roster spot although his big question mark has been toughness and that can only be seen in some of these preseason games. Given what I've heard so far I think he's on the final roster.

 

I believe with Hester splitting time we'll keep six WR and this leaves us with 2 more spots open. The top 3 fighting for those spots are Booker, Bradley, and Hass. If Bradley gets hurt in anyway during the preseason and can't play even for a week I think he's gone. However, he's far more athletic than either Booker or Hass and I think he'll make the roster if he's healthy. This would leave Booker and Hass fighting for the final roster spot.

 

I know Booker has all the experience over Hass and I'd like to see him on the roster but would he really give us something better than Hass? I've heard very little about Booker in camp so far so it appears he hasn't really stood out. This is a WR who was never very fast to begin with and although we all know of Miami's woes offensively was he part of the problem? There was very little interest in Booker after he was cut. I don't think we can tell anything from the depth chart that was released even though Booker is listed alongside Lloyd as the starter. If we were to follow that Bennett would not be on the team.

 

I know it's easier to cut Hass over Booker but which player would really make the team better? If Hass performs better in preseason is it worth it to have Booker's leadership in the locker room?

[Connorbear]

I know it's easier to cut Hass over Booker but which player would really make the team better? If Hass performs better in preseason is it worth it to have Booker's leadership in the locker room?

There is no doubt in my mind - Marty Booker has to make this roster. He is your only true veteran receiver and will be the locker room leader of the receiving corps. Really, the choice for me would come down to Bradley and Haas. Bradley has been injured multiple times as a Bear and has shown us only glimpses of his talent over 3 yrs. Remember, last yr he hardly saw the field. I say whomever wins out in preseason gets the roster spot.

 

Peace

[AZ54]

Rashied Davis is in his 3rd year as a WR, Brandon Lloyd has 6 years in the league. I certainly like Booker's leadership over those other two but he's not the only voice of experience in the locker room. It's not like Booker has experience in our offense and can help out the other guys. I think he'll get to that point over the course of the season.

[Connorbear]

Rashied Davis is in his 3rd year as a WR, Brandon Lloyd has 6 years in the league. I certainly like Booker's leadership over those other two but he's not the only voice of experience in the locker room. It's not like Booker has experience in our offense and can help out the other guys. I think he'll get to that point over the course of the season.

If you want Haas over Booker be my guest. Haas has never played an NFL down. Booker is a successful vet receiver who has shown he knows how to produce. I'll take Marty.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

Bradley is in his 3rd year, but that doesn't mean he is experienced. Davis is obviously more experienced, but I am not sure he is counted as really a veteran. Lloyd. He's been in the league, but has simply too many questions.

 

I read in an article today that while Hass is the favorite of so many, he simply doesn't seem to impress the staff. One issue Hass has is a clean release off the LOS.

 

Booker may not be the most talented of the group, but at the same time, when it is 3rd and 7, he is still my first option. I do not think there is a receiver on the roster better at (a) knowing where the 1st down marker is, ( getting a clean break off the LOS, © making a good cut to gain additional sep, (d) being where he is supposed to be and (e) catching the damn ball.

 

This staff seems to put too much emphasis on big play potential, not realizing you need receivers like Booker to keep the chains moving so your playmakers have more opportunities. Booker makes the roster w/o question in my mind.

 

Frankly, I think Hass should make the roster, but it would be in favor of Bradley.

[bradjock]

I read in an article today that while Hass is the favorite of so many, he simply doesn't seem to impress the staff. One issue Hass has is a clean release off the LOS.

 

This staff seems to put too much emphasis on big play potential, not realizing you need receivers like Booker to keep the chains moving so your playmakers have more opportunities. Booker makes the roster w/o question in my mind.

 

Frankly, I think Hass should make the roster, but it would be in favor of Bradley.

 

I agree 100% with what you said about Booker, and I think we agree on the fact that Hester, Booker, Lloyd, Davis, & Bennett are 5 locks to make the roster. Which basically leaves it between Hass & Bradley.

 

You mentioned guys like Booker to keep the chains moving, but isn't that why we have 3 seemingly very good TE's? Isn't that why we're thrilled with the combo of Lloyd & Hester, because they can both stretch the field and open things up while our TE's work the middle?

 

It's tough not to love Hass. The guy works his ass off. But even if he makes the team, where does he see time on the field? If he makes the team, he's the 6th WR. Not to mention Olsen sometimes lines up as a slot receiver, so that would make him the 7th WR. Last year it was a wasted roster spot having him on the roster. I don't know why he can't play special teams, but he doesn't. That decreases his value also.

 

I'm afraid Bradley will never regain the speed he once had. But we still view him as a guy with the potential to be an elite receiver. If you're going to waste a roster spot, you might as well do it on a guy who will help you in the future.

[AZ54]

At some point you gotta read what's written. For the record I liked it when we resigned Booker and I never said I want Hass over Booker at this point in time. I said what will happen if Hass is outplayiing Booker? I'm not in love with players just because of what they've done in the past (neither are the Packers for that matter). I simply want the best players on the field to help this team win. I'd prefer that it's Booker over Hass and I also said I like having his leadership abilities on the roster. IMO that is the most likely scenario.

 

However, I didn't see Booker play much last year so I really don't know what he can do on the field at this point in his career. I'm disappointed to hear very little about Booker during camp and quite honestly I'm surprised that given his level of competition he hasn't clearly won a starting role as shown on our depth chart. All I can really tell from that depth chart is that nobody has really stood out among the WRs. It seems clear who the top 7 are and it also seems likely we're keeping 6 WR.

 

I won't downplay how much experience helps when the real season starts but what if Hass demonstrates better move-the-chains capability than Booker? Will you still go with experience? Or do you cut Bradley because we have 3 other guys with the downfield speed and keep Hass, Booker, Bennett as your underneath move-the-chain WRs and keeping Hester, Davis, and Lloyd who are more athletic downfield threats. At this point it's safe to say Hass is near his peak in ability in this offense. If Hass is outplaying Booker do you assume Booker gets better as the season goes on and he becomes more comfortable in the offense and cut Hass. Or do you look at Bradley who is also had more than enough time to learn this offense and cut him?

 

Nfo, you might be right and Bradley could be gone. Last year Hass was told he had to learn every WR position if he wanted to be on the roster. He never made it obviously but he's added a year of practice and should be better at knowing those routes. Bradley seems to struggle running the correct routes for the one position he was supposed to know much less knowing all 3 or 4 roles. Plus last year Bradley blocked like a matador. If that doesn't change in preseason and Hass can block better he might win the spot.

[Connorbear]

At some point you gotta read what's written.

At some point, you need to get thicker skin.

 

You asked the following question:

 

I know it's easier to cut Hass over Booker but which player would really make the team better? If Hass performs better in preseason is it worth it to have Booker's leadership in the locker room?

 

My response would be even if Haas has a better preseason than Booker, you keep Booker. Booker is a proven veteran receiver who is a leader in the locker room. Unless he looks like crap, he makes this team. The choice to me is between Bradley and Haas. Whomever wins the preseason battle, gets the roster spot.

 

Peace

[bowlingtwig]

I completely agree. We know exactly what we will get from Booker. He is a very dependable guy. He won't get us those great games but you can at least count on 3-5 catches per game. As much as I love Hass and would love to see him get a chance I believe he is cut unless Bradley gets hurt AGAIN.

[BearFan2000]

I don't see how Booker doesn't make the roster.

 

IMO one of the most important skills of a WR is running good routes which means getting a good break off the LOS and being where he's supposed to be, when he's supposed to be there. If you have a bunch of receivers who don't run good routes it's it makes it difficult for a QB to successfully make his reads in a timely manner. The whole thing is based on timing, and a QB in the NFL has a limited amount of time to find an open guy. Different receivers will be open at different stages of the play but if they aren't where there supposed to be it throws the timing. The teams in this league that have effective passing games are stocked with guys who run good clean and precise routes.

 

I'm stoked about tomorrows game for several reasons...

 

1. Bears Football season is finally here, thank God I've been passing the time watching Youtube practice videos and DVD's of the 2006 season.

 

2. I'm anxious to see Kyle and Rex play in a game situation even if it is preseason

 

3. I'm anxious to see how the WR's look

 

4. I'm anxious to see how the OL looks. Can the open holes? Can they protect the QB?

 

5. I'm anxious to see Forte, Wolfe, and AP, etc.

 

6. Did I mention I'm glad it's football season again?

[Pixote]

I hear ya, it's time for FOOTBALL!

[AZ54]

At some point, you need to get thicker skin.

 

You asked the following question:

 

I know it's easier to cut Hass over Booker but which player would really make the team better? If Hass performs better in preseason is it worth it to have Booker's leadership in the locker room?

 

My response would be even if Haas has a better preseason than Booker, you keep Booker. Booker is a proven veteran receiver who is a leader in the locker room. Unless he looks like crap, he makes this team. The choice to me is between Bradley and Haas. Whomever wins the preseason battle, gets the roster spot.

 

Peace

 

If I was afraid of getting laughed at I would have never put up this thread. You simply said that I wanted Hass over Booker and that's not the case at all. Booker has been pretty quiet at camp so far and I really haven't heard much positive on him, not much negative either. Given the competition at WR that makes me a bit concerned. Add that to the fact that he sat on the market for some time before the Bears signed him so there wasn't a lot of interest in him. Hass has never seen the field for a reason so I'm not in love with the guy but I know he's a very tough receiver who just finds a way to get to the ball.

 

I'm more than ready to watch the game tomorrow night (if I can find a place) and I certainly hope Booker steps up as many veterans do when the real action starts. I suppose you could flip all this around and say that since Booker hasn't clearly stood out maybe the other WR are stepping up more than we thought they would.

[Mongo3451]

At this point, I go with the 6 that perform the best in TC. If Bradley gets hurt, cut him as soon as possible. If Haas out-performs Booker, by all means, cut Booker, as Haas has upside and Booker is on the downside of his carreer. Locker room leadership is completely unnessary from a wide reciever position. They are the most individual contributors on the team aside from kickers. IMO - The ones who are legitimately safe are: Hester, Davis and Bennett. We probably won't too deep in the rotation anyway, as our talent has shifted to the TE position where Des remains our best possession reciever with Davis and Olsen as vertical threats to compliment our WR's.

 

Also, I don't think Booker is a sure thing. I also don't believe any commentary that states "we know what we have" in him. He is NOT the reciever we traded away a few years ago. He is older, slower and more injury degraded. That can have a huge impact on what he once was. I truly hope Booker makes the roster. 1) Because he's one of my favorites and 2) I have confidence in him. But, I simply don't want him on the team if we have recievers that are making more of an impact on the field.

[Connorbear]

If I was afraid of getting laughed at I would have never put up this thread. You simply said that I wanted Hass over Booker and that's not the case at all. Booker has been pretty quiet at camp so far and I really haven't heard much positive on him, not much negative either. Given the competition at WR that makes me a bit concerned. Add that to the fact that he sat on the market for some time before the Bears signed him so there wasn't a lot of interest in him. Hass has never seen the field for a reason so I'm not in love with the guy but I know he's a very tough receiver who just finds a way to get to the ball.

 

I'm more than ready to watch the game tomorrow night (if I can find a place) and I certainly hope Booker steps up as many veterans do when the real action starts. I suppose you could flip all this around and say that since Booker hasn't clearly stood out maybe the other WR are stepping up more than we thought they would.

No issues. We are all good.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

You mentioned guys like Booker to keep the chains moving, but isn't that why we have 3 seemingly very good TE's?

 

No. IMHO, we are talking about two totally different things. Can a TE work underneath and help move the chains. Sure. But they do not go about it the same way. TEs help move the chains through (a) mis-matches and ( exploiting an overly aggressive defense. What I am talking about w/ Booker may end w/ the same result, but how you get there is very different.

 

Booker gets it done w/ great route running, and the rest of what I mentioned before. TEs get it done more w/ size, mis-matches and exploiting the blitz. I am not saying one is better than the other, but I would say you can have Booker run routes nearly anytime, where as you can not always send the TE out like that. Sometimes the TE simply has to stay back to block.

 

Isn't that why we're thrilled with the combo of Lloyd & Hester, because they can both stretch the field and open things up while our TE's work the middle?

 

First, I would point out they have to prove more than speed to open things up. IMHO, this is a common misconception. Rex has hit Berrian deep many times to burn opponents over the years, but did that ever get defenses to respect our passing game? Just having a downfield threat at WR isn't enough. Hitting that WR once in a while is not enough either. Until we can hit that WR downfield w/ some level of consistency, we will not see defenses back off. That means (a) the OL has to prove capable of holding a block long enough for deep routes to develop ( the QB must prove capable of getting the ball downfield, and accurate enough for the WR to make a play on the ball and © the WR must prove capable of not simply having the speed to get downfield, but the ability to track the ball in the air and make the damn catch.

 

Point is, as explosive as Hester is, I do not believe we are going to see defenses playing back just because he is in the game running downfield. We have a lot to prove before we see that.

 

It's tough not to love Hass. The guy works his ass off.

 

agreed, though I would say the staff seems immune to this affection. This has been a gripe of mine for years about Angelo, and then Lovie. They seem to really fall in love w/ the high talent guys who are all potential, while solid football players tend to get lost in the shuffle. Scott was a solid DT for us, but wasn't a high enough talent. I would say the same for Adams, who was one of our most consistent DL last year (IMHO) but I believe the staff would like nothing more than to replace him. At WR, its the same thing. This staff never appreciates an Engram like player, which Hass is. Some may argue Hass has more talent, but in what they offer, they are pretty similar.

 

But even if he makes the team, where does he see time on the field? If he makes the team, he's the 6th WR. Not to mention Olsen sometimes lines up as a slot receiver, so that would make him the 7th WR. Last year it was a wasted roster spot having him on the roster. I don't know why he can't play special teams, but he doesn't. That decreases his value also.

 

This is a huge key, IMHO. The 6th WR has to be able to play teams. Was Hass even active last year? I wasn't aware he couldn't play special teams. I thought he was simply not on the game day active roster due to pure numbers, as opposed to an inability to play teams.

 

I'm afraid Bradley will never regain the speed he once had. But we still view him as a guy with the potential to be an elite receiver. If you're going to waste a roster spot, you might as well do it on a guy who will help you in the future.

 

I absolutely see the logic in what you are saying. If you have a deep depth chart guy, unlikely to see the field, it makes more sense to have a guy w/ more potential. Personally, I simply view Hass as having greater potential. He may not be as talented, but I simply believe he stands a greater chance of becoming a legit NFL WR than Bradley, despite pure athleticism.

[nfoligno]

Regarding a lack of talk of Booker, this is my opinion.

 

I think Booker is having a solid camp, but as that is the expectation, we are not hearing much. I would argue that you hear most about players who are giving a performance outside of expectations. If a player is below expectations, we hear about it. If a player is really out playing expectations, we hear about it. If a player is simply meeting expectations, you rarely hear much.

 

How much have we read about Hunter, for example? I have read about a couple young LBs having a solid camp, but does that mean Hunter is threatened? I don't think so. I think we simply don't hear about Hunter because he is playing up to expectations.

 

 

Also, IMHO the main reason Booker has not been given the starting job yet is because the staff doesn't want him to be a starter. The staff has said it many times, but they want speed and playmaking ability in their starters. I think in the staff's ideal world, Hester and Lloyd (or Bradley) would step up and earn starting jobs, allowing Booker to work out of the slot. Then you have homerun threats on the outside, and a chain moving inside. So Booker not being named a starter has more to do w/ the staff hoping the greater speed/threat receivers step up to win the starting jobs. In fact, I would argue that Booker still being considered for the starting role is more a positive of Booker's play than not.

[nfoligno]

Disagree on several points.

 

One, I disagree that leadership at the WR position is not as important. Maybe if you have a bunch of veteran receivers, but we don't. We have a lot of WRs who are still developing, and having a WR like Booker is huge IMHO. I have read where both Hass and Bennett have talked about how much they have been learning from Booker, who has taken on a mentor role. Some may argue that is the coaches job, but I think history has shown how much players on the field can be teachers in ways staff can not (especially our staff).

 

Two, I disagree w/ the idea that whoever looks best in camp should automatically be kept. Too often in the past we have seen players look great in camp, but were exposed in real games. Knight, the DE/LB we had some years ago immediately comes to mind. I remember him leading the team in sacks one camp, but the guy was nothing when it mattered. Also, it should be pointed out that some, like Hass, may look good, but how often is he looking good against 1st string. Just because a player looks good beating the bottom of our depth chart players doesn't mean he should be given the job over a guy who has been working against our first string. It's one thing to make catches against our rookie DB, or even Graham, and another to be catching the ball against Tillman or Vasher.

 

I like Hass, as do many fans. But I simply disagree w/ the idea of keeping him over Booker. If Booker looked like garbage in camp, fine. But what have you read which would suggest such. If Booker was truly looking bad, do you not think we would have read more about that? You say we can not know what to expect of Booker, but I think the staff does have a level of expectations w/ Booker, and a lack of talk about him more likely simply means he is meeting that level of expectation.