Connorbear Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Nice article on last yrs picks. I think Okwo might be gone especially considering how Roach has looked. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...-bsep09.article Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Wolfe looked fast & elusive like he did on film from his college days -- very encouraging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Okwo will probably be on IR again... I never liked that pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 There are tons of picks that I hate by JA, yet most of them work out (hated the Hester pick, wanted Leonard Pope instead). The Okwo pick was one of the few non-1st round picks that didn't work out, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 There are tons of picks that I hate by JA, yet most of them work out (hated the Hester pick, wanted Leonard Pope instead). The Okwo pick was one of the few non-1st round picks that didn't work out, apparently. Have you been drinking? "one of the few" that didn't workout? 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Michael Okwo LB Stanford Josh Beekman G Boston College Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma Jamar Williams LB Arizona State J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Kyle Orton QB Purdue Airese Currie WR Clemson Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington Leon Joe LB Maryland Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) 2003 Michael Haynes DE Penn State Rex Grossman QB Florida Todd Johnson DB Florida Bobby Wade WR Arizona Justin Gage WR Missouri Tron Lafavor DT Florida Joe Odom LB Purdue Brock Forsey RB Boise State Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh 2002 Marc Colombo T Boston College Roosevelt Williams DB Tuskegee Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi Bobby Gray DB Louisiana Tech Bryan Knight LB Pittsburgh Jamin Elliott WR Delaware Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Have you been drinking? "one of the few" that didn't workout? 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Michael Okwo LB Stanford Josh Beekman G Boston College Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma Jamar Williams LB Arizona State J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Kyle Orton QB Purdue Airese Currie WR Clemson Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington Leon Joe LB Maryland Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) 2003 Michael Haynes DE Penn State Rex Grossman QB Florida Todd Johnson DB Florida Bobby Wade WR Arizona Justin Gage WR Missouri Tron Lafavor DT Florida Joe Odom LB Purdue Brock Forsey RB Boise State Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh 2002 Marc Colombo T Boston College Roosevelt Williams DB Tuskegee Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi Bobby Gray DB Louisiana Tech Bryan Knight LB Pittsburgh Jamin Elliott WR Delaware Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA Wow, I just swallowed some vomit when I saw that list! I mean seriously, if I were to print that list off right now, the only thing I could think to do with it would be to wipe my butt. Then again, that would be doing the opposite of what toilet paper is meant to do!!! The underlines I completely see your point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Jury still out Michael Okwo LB Stanford Josh Beekman G Boston College Started last game and did well Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian Still on team and SP Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma Jury still out Jamar Williams LB Arizona State Looked ok starting in place of Hilly J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma Tyler Reed G Penn State Still on team 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Still hanging in there Kyle Orton QB Purdue Still thereand mya start Airese Currie WR Clemson Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe Starter Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina Looked pretty good playing middle LB 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington Starter for Dallas Leon Joe LB Maryland Playing for Detroit Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh Playing for Detroit Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) 2003 Michael Haynes DE Penn State Rex Grossman QB Florida Maybe starter again and took us to superbowl Todd Johnson DB Florida Playing for St louis Bobby Wade WR Arizona Playing with Minn Vikes Justin Gage WR Missouri Playing for Titans Tron Lafavor DT Florida Joe Odom LB Purdue Brock Forsey RB Boise State Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh 2002 Marc Colombo T Boston College Starting Tackle Dallas Roosevelt Williams DB Tuskegee Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi Slated to start untill injury Bobby Gray DB Louisiana Tech Bryan Knight LB Pittsburgh Jamin Elliott WR Delaware Bryan Fletcher TE Not bad really, we always coulda done much worse. But overall not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Have you been drinking? "one of the few" that didn't workout? 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Michael Okwo LB Stanford Josh Beekman G Boston College Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma Jamar Williams LB Arizona State J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Kyle Orton QB Purdue Airese Currie WR Clemson Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington Leon Joe LB Maryland Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) 2003 Michael Haynes DE Penn State Rex Grossman QB Florida Todd Johnson DB Florida Bobby Wade WR Arizona Justin Gage WR Missouri Tron Lafavor DT Florida Joe Odom LB Purdue Brock Forsey RB Boise State Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh 2002 Marc Colombo T Boston College Roosevelt Williams DB Tuskegee Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi Bobby Gray DB Louisiana Tech Bryan Knight LB Pittsburgh Jamin Elliott WR Delaware Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA Did Jerry Angelo piss in your coffee or something? I love how players not even in their 2nd season already can be labeled as bad picks. I also like how you use late round picks as example. Wow, a 7th rounder didn't work out! What was Jerry Angelo thinking, taking someone who didn't pan out in the 7th round! ZOMG!@**(@^# Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan - the guy hasn't even had a chance to play wait and already he didn't work out? Michael Okwo LB Stanford - same boat as Bazuin Josh Beekman G Boston College - same boat as Bazuin Aaron Brant T Iowa State - oh, a 7th round pick didn't work out... cry me a river. You can't declare players a bust after one year. What a terrible example ----------------------- 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian - still a solid backup and special teamer. Certainly not what we had in plan, but still an assett to the team Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma - wow, because he got injured it's JA's fault? Actually, in the time DD has been healthy, he has been our 2nd best DT Jamar Williams LB Arizona State - he's one of our top special teamers and could easily start on several teams. Wow, what a terrible example J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma - wow, a late round FB didn't work out Tyler Reed G Penn State - hey, for a late round pick, he's still around ----------------------- 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas - can't blame JA for this pick. Have you seen what the other options that year have done Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma - showed flashes, but not living up to his early 2nd round selection Kyle Orton QB Purdue - I'd have to say this was one of JA's better picks. Do you expect all second day QB's to be Tom Brady? Airese Currie WR Clemson - a late round receiver who didn't pan out. Yipee. Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe - he was a key starter for us and is an excellent starter now for Caroline. What the hell are you smoking by listing him? In fact, the mistake was trading him. Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina - a 7th round linebacker who contributes on ST and is a solid backup is a bad pick? Seriously, WTF are you thinking? ----------------------- 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington - Was a solid starter for us and you can't plan on him having an arsenal of weapons in his house. Leon Joe LB Maryland - a 4th round LB who was a solid contributer on special teams for a couple years Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh - a 2nd day DE who didn't work out, yeah, JA should be fired Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State - a late round QB who actually had to start for us for a little bit his rookie year, yeah Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) - a late round DB who didn't do anything, STUPID PICK! ----------------------- 2002 and 2003 hardly count as that was when Jouran was still calling all the shots. nfoligno, wtf were thinking when you made that post? Those were the worst examples I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Jury still out No argument, but the point is, he has not stood out of yet. Josh Beekman G Boston College Started last game and did well Yes, but at the same time, I would point out he is only getting a look due to injuries, and the staff sure doesn't seem to want to play him at OG. Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian Still on team and SP He was our first pick in the draft. We traded out of the 1st round, supposedly w/ him in mind all along. Simply being on the team and on special teams doesn't cut it IMHO. Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma Jury still out Sure, the jury is still out, but 2 years of nothing but injury, and a 3rd year that has seen him miss camp thus far w/ injury doesn't put a good light on him. Jamar Williams LB Arizona State Looked ok starting in place of Hilly I would agree he is in a tough position, but the fact is still that he is nothing but a backup. Tyler Reed G Penn State - Still on team Deep depth, and considering how weak we are on the OL, he has no excuses like Jamar Williams. Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma Still hanging in there Come on. Highest drafted WR and has done little. In fact, many think he is on the bubble. Kyle Orton QB Purdue Still thereand mya start I like Orton, but would argue that with our QB issues, he has not stepped up to the point of truly putting value at his pick, though he has a much better chance to change his grade than most. Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe - Starter For who? Not us, and that is all that matters. Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina Looked pretty good playing middle LB Again, for who. If not for us, can we say it was a good pick. Tank Johnson DT Washington Starter for Dallas Sorry, but there were character questions in the draft, which is partially why he fell to where he did. We took a chance, and it blew up in our faces. He may be a good NFL player, but not for us. For us, he was a circus show. Leon Joe LB Maryland Playing for Detroit Bust for us, and again, that is all that matters. Simply drafting good players is not enough if they are not good for us. Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh Playing for Detroit See above. Rex Grossman QB Florida Maybe starter again and took us to superbowl 1st round QB who is expected to be a franchise QB, and is in a camp battle w/ a 4th round pick. Todd Johnson DB Florida Playing for St louis Bobby Wade WR Arizona Playing with Minn Vikes Justin Gage WR Missouri Playing for Titans See above comments. If they do not develop for us, then what good is their draft pick. Marc Colombo T Boston College Starting Tackle Dallas Same ol same ol. Gotta start for us, or they were not a good pick. If Benson goes on to start and be good for another team, would you then say he was a good pick for us? Its one thing if you look at Berrian, who was good for us before moving on, but I think most every guy you have pointed out playing for another team was jack for us, and that is what matters. What did they do for us. Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi Slated to start untill injury Man, come on. He has stunk. The point is not that Angelo has been w/o any good picks, but I personally believe his great drafting is a bit over-hyped. Not bad really, we always coulda done much worse. But overall not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Did Jerry Angelo piss in your coffee or something? I love how players not even in their 2nd season already can be labeled as bad picks. I also like how you use late round picks as example. Wow, a 7th rounder didn't work out! What was Jerry Angelo thinking, taking someone who didn't pan out in the 7th round! ZOMG!@**(@^# Give me a break. One. I am not saying players taken a year ago are busts, but meerly pointing out players who have yet to prove much of anything. I didn't list Wolfe for example. He hasn't proven much, but at the same time, has shown quite a bit of good. Others I listed have not even shown that much, thus why they make the list. I am also not saying these players can't still develop, but only that if you look at them today, they have yet to. Two. I simply listed every round. Misses in the 7th obviously have less meaning than misses in the 2nd or 3rd, but I simply listed all picks. Where would you like me to cut it off? If I simply listed top 3 rounds (first day picks) others would question leaving out the 4th, which is often a key round. Point is, everyone can question where the cut off would be, thus why I simply listed every round. While the list w/o question has its share of late round picks, there are more than enough 1st, 2nd, 3rd and even 4th round picks to consider as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 2007 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan - the guy hasn't even had a chance to play wait and already he didn't work out? Michael Okwo LB Stanford - same boat as Bazuin Josh Beekman G Boston College - same boat as Bazuin Aaron Brant T Iowa State - oh, a 7th round pick didn't work out... cry me a river. You can't declare players a bust after one year. What a terrible example I am not saying they are busts, but only that they have yet to prove themselves. Bazuin hasn't had a chance, but hasn't done much w/ his chance thus far. Okwo? Per the reports, he has been passed up on the depth chart by Roach. Beekman. Not the same as Bazuin IMHO. Bazuin is stuck behind a group of VERY good veterans. We are desperate at OG, and Beekman is loaded w/ opportunity. Brant may be a 7th rounder, but again, at a position we are desperate at, and the opportunity is there for him. ----------------------- 2006 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian - still a solid backup and special teamer. Certainly not what we had in plan, but still an assett to the team Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma - wow, because he got injured it's JA's fault? Actually, in the time DD has been healthy, he has been our 2nd best DT Jamar Williams LB Arizona State - he's one of our top special teamers and could easily start on several teams. Wow, what a terrible example J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma - wow, a late round FB didn't work out Tyler Reed G Penn State - hey, for a late round pick, he's still around Come on an DM. He was the top pick in the draft, and the player we traded out of the 1st round for. He has not earned his draft position. Regarding Dusty, when has he been healthy? I like him, a lot, but until he can prove himself, how can we say he was a good pick. Regarding Williams, how can you say he would start for several teams? I agree his situation is not the best, due to the veterans in front of him, but the reality is, what has he done? Regarding Runnells and Reed, why do we pick in the late rounds if they are so worthless? ----------------------- 2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas - can't blame JA for this pick. Have you seen what the other options that year have done Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma - showed flashes, but not living up to his early 2nd round selection Kyle Orton QB Purdue - I'd have to say this was one of JA's better picks. Do you expect all second day QB's to be Tom Brady? Airese Currie WR Clemson - a late round receiver who didn't pan out. Yipee. Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe - he was a key starter for us and is an excellent starter now for Caroline. What the hell are you smoking by listing him? In fact, the mistake was trading him. Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina - a 7th round linebacker who contributes on ST and is a solid backup is a bad pick? Seriously, WTF are you thinking? Can't blame Angelo for Benson? If not, when can you blame a GM for a player being a bust if not for a top 5 pick turning out as bad as Benson. Again, you seem to value later picks pretty light. Why even draft if there is no expectation for them to develop. Further, why do we continually trade down to stockpile late round picks if they are so worthless? ----------------------- 2004 Tank Johnson DT Washington - Was a solid starter for us and you can't plan on him having an arsenal of weapons in his house. Leon Joe LB Maryland - a 4th round LB who was a solid contributer on special teams for a couple years Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh - a 2nd day DE who didn't work out, yeah, JA should be fired Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State - a late round QB who actually had to start for us for a little bit his rookie year, yeah Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL) - a late round DB who didn't do anything, STUPID PICK! Hell yes I can blame Angelo for Tank. Character concerns dropped him in the draft, and we took a risk anyway. It blew up in our faces. Again writing off 2nd day picks. ----------------------- 2002 and 2003 hardly count as that was when Jouran was still calling all the shots. We disagree Angelo wasn't calling the shots. We absolutely disagree there. And if that is the case, then I guess we do not count players like Brown, Tillman and Briggs in the good draft pick column. I suppose Jauron gets credit for them, and not Angelo? I doubt you would say that. nfoligno, wtf were thinking when you made that post? Those were the worst examples I have ever seen. Sorry, but the meer fact you place no blame on Angelo for taking Benson, not to mention pretending DM was a good pick, says everything of your objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 You know what might actually be useful? A comparison of other GM's and their track records. JA has had some good picks and bad picks. But I would love to see that in comparison to other GM's. Especially some of the top ones. And just remember, if it wasn't Benson it was Mike Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 You know what might actually be useful? A comparison of other GM's and their track records. JA has had some good picks and bad picks. But I would love to see that in comparison to other GM's. Especially some of the top ones. And just remember, if it wasn't Benson it was Mike Williams. Couple things. A - I am not saying Angelo is simply pure garbage in the draft. But some act like he is the greatest, and I even read a post yesterday seeming to say all his mid round picks were good. All. B - All GMs have hits and misses. No question. Actually, I would even say Angelo has had a solid share of hits. My true issue w/ Angelo is his hits most all seem to be on defense. Being a defensive drafting genius is great, but if you can't draft offense too, then it isn't enough in my book. C - Who is to say it was Mike Williams if it wasn't Benson. I recall several fans being high on MW, but how do you know we were. Or even if we liked MW, how do you know we would have drafted him? Really, you don't know. For all you/I know, we would have drafted Rolle, Merriman, or whoever. Or if we didn't like Benson, maybe we would have traded down. Also, regardless, the point is still that we did take Benson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think JA should get a pass because he drafted a guy named Tron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think JA should get a pass because he drafted a guy named Tron Unless the dude rides a glow in the dark cycle and dominates w/ a frisbe, no pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think JA should get a pass because he drafted a guy named Tron I've been saying for years that the Bears should stockpile players with cool nicknames. We could have 3 Tanks on the roster, a Booger, a PNut, Tron, and several other colorful characters like Craphonso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Unless the dude rides a glow in the dark cycle and dominates w/ a frisbe, no pass. I thought I read that he did all that stuff in his free time - you know while doing some off season consulting at ENCOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Couple things. A - I am not saying Angelo is simply pure garbage in the draft. But some act like he is the greatest, and I even read a post yesterday seeming to say all his mid round picks were good. All. B - All GMs have hits and misses. No question. Actually, I would even say Angelo has had a solid share of hits. My true issue w/ Angelo is his hits most all seem to be on defense. Being a defensive drafting genius is great, but if you can't draft offense too, then it isn't enough in my book. C - Who is to say it was Mike Williams if it wasn't Benson. I recall several fans being high on MW, but how do you know we were. Or even if we liked MW, how do you know we would have drafted him? Really, you don't know. For all you/I know, we would have drafted Rolle, Merriman, or whoever. Or if we didn't like Benson, maybe we would have traded down. Also, regardless, the point is still that we did take Benson. A-Come I think you know that all his mid round picks are awesome. Thats common knowledge lol B-He did well enough drafting and signing people to get us back to the super bowl. And he is gold getting draft picks signed and rewarding our own. C- I'm sure at the time they liked Benson. I'm sure they thought he wasn't going to be a big piece of crap. And the talk of the time was Mike Williams. I'm just saying it would interesting to look at other GM's drafts and have something to compare JA to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 B-He did well enough drafting and signing people to get us back to the super bowl. And he is gold getting draft picks signed and rewarding our own. Ironically, while few players remain from the old regim, how many are considered key players? Best OL and two of our best defensive players. We got to the SB, but after last year, we have a bit to prove it was more than a fluke. Yea, we re-sign our own, but do so at the expense of adding more talent in FA. C- I'm sure at the time they liked Benson. I'm sure they thought he wasn't going to be a big piece of crap. And the talk of the time was Mike Williams. There was talk abotu MW, but I think there was talk about more than just he. Lot of trade down talk as well. Also, I am simply not sure how much of the MW talk was legit, and how much came from fans and media who simply linked a top prospect w/ a need. I'm just saying it would interesting to look at other GM's drafts and have something to compare JA to. Sounds like a fun research paper. In your work, I would like to see a comparison against all current GMs. Do a round by round evaluation. Create a point system to grade the various player, and factor the round in the point system. I want a thourough review. For extra credit, you can compare Angelo against former GMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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