Tradeable Players...

[Mongo3451]

I've been thinking about our OL almost exclusively, this off season. I'm thinking we have some highly tradeable talent on this roster that we can utilize to upgrade the OL. The reason I'm talking trade is because I want a rising player, not a cap cut or scrap heap player. Here's a look at our tradeable players.

 

D. Manning - will not hurt us to be gone. Cap friendly for whoever may want him.

R. Manning -Obviously already on the block. Cap friendly for us and may fill a huge need for a deprived team.

A. Adams - Looking good for us, but we are deep. Cap friendly for both.

I. Idonije - Again, we are deep. Buffalo still may want. Cap friendly again.

A. Ogunleye - Please no booing here. He would hurt, but an OL would help more than his loss.

M. Anderson - young talented enigma. Has value for contract and potential.

M. Brown - Instant help for a team that needs a FS piece of the puzzle.

L. Briggs - Did not sign a monster deal, so is very tradable. We'd eat some bonus, but could net a stud player. Depth behind him.

Vasher and Tillman - Blasphemy! Not really. Good players with solid market value. Again, they would hurt...

Lastly, Olsen and Clark - I don't see this as a fix, as they ae currenly involved in the OL/WR solution to our woeso see anyone go.

 

Sooo, I'm mainly looking at a plethera of D players that could be moved for the greater good of the team. IMO - the depth would absorb the shock of the loss. I'd hate to see anyone go, but I'm passionate about getting the OL stronger in a hurry. I'm not of the mindset that we have the talent on O to even be game managers. Our season may ride in the balance.

[madlithuanian]

Good list...I would take Vasher and Olsen off though. Unless there was truly something to get. Even with that said, I can't see Vasher going. He must stay! I could live with Olsen traded for value. Tillman too...but Vash is too much of a ballhawk! I also can't bear to see Mike Borwn go...not to mention I don't see many teams forking over a lot for him.

 

I would also the following:

 

1. Grossman

2. Orton

3. Peterson

4. Manning Jr.

5. M. Anderson

 

 

 

I've been thinking about our OL almost exclusively, this off season. I'm thinking we have some highly tradeable talent on this roster that we can utilize to upgrade the OL. The reason I'm talking trade is because I want a rising player, not a cap cut or scrap heap player. Here's a look at our tradeable players.

 

D. Manning - will not hurt us to be gone. Cap friendly for whoever may want him.

R. Manning -Obviously already on the block. Cap friendly for us and may fill a huge need for a deprived team.

A. Adams - Looking good for us, but we are deep. Cap friendly for both.

I. Idonije - Again, we are deep. Buffalo still may want. Cap friendly again.

A. Ogunleye - Please no booing here. He would hurt, but an OL would help more than his loss.

M. Anderson - young talented enigma. Has value for contract and potential.

M. Brown - Instant help for a team that needs a FS piece of the puzzle.

L. Briggs - Did not sign a monster deal, so is very tradable. We'd eat some bonus, but could net a stud player. Depth behind him.

Vasher and Tillman - Blasphemy! Not really. Good players with solid market value. Again, they would hurt...

Lastly, Olsen and Clark - I don't see this as a fix, as they ae currenly involved in the OL/WR solution to our woeso see anyone go.

 

Sooo, I'm mainly looking at a plethera of D players that could be moved for the greater good of the team. IMO - the depth would absorb the shock of the loss. I'd hate to see anyone go, but I'm passionate about getting the OL stronger in a hurry. I'm not of the mindset that we have the talent on O to even be game managers. Our season may ride in the balance.

[nfoligno]

D. Manning - will not hurt us to be gone. Cap friendly for whoever may want him.

 

But who would want him? Maybe another team would believe they could develop a player we couldn't, but how much value does he have?

 

R. Manning -Obviously already on the block. Cap friendly for us and may fill a huge need for a deprived team.

 

Problem is, I see him having about zero value. We are not even playing him, thus his value is at an all time low. If we wanted to trade him, it would make more sense to use him and showcase him more to set up a trade. Right now, I think team expect us to cut him.

 

A. Adams - Looking good for us, but we are deep. Cap friendly for both.

 

This would scare the heck out of me. Adams is that sort of player our staff never appreciates, but who too often is needed. While we have loads of talent at DT, I just do not trust the players we have, due to injury or experience.

 

I. Idonije - Again, we are deep. Buffalo still may want. Cap friendly again.

 

I could see this one. I think he has "some" value, but how much? Also, he is a favorite of Lovies.

 

A. Ogunleye - Please no booing here. He would hurt, but an OL would help more than his loss.

 

Not going to boo, but I think it would be a bad move. He is our best DE, and if our system relies on pressure from the front four, I fear how bad his loss would be felt. We generates little enough pass rush from our front four w/ him. What would it be like w/o?

 

M. Anderson - young talented enigma. Has value for contract and potential.

 

No way would I trade Anderson. He has shown far too much potential. Double digit pass rushers are simply too great of a commodity to trade away. Coming off a poor season, his trade value simply is not equal to his value to the team. We can't do it due to contract, but I would trade Alex Brown before Anderson.

 

M. Brown - Instant help for a team that needs a FS piece of the puzzle.

 

Again, value. Who is going to give us jack w/ Brown's injury history. Further, and again, his value to the team is simply far greater than his value in a trade. Safety is now one of our more questionable units on defense. Brown's loss would be heavily felt.

 

L. Briggs - Did not sign a monster deal, so is very tradable. We'd eat some bonus, but could net a stud player. Depth behind him.

 

How much of that deal was guarnateed? We might have to eat more than just "some" bonus money. He may have once been tradable, but I am not sure he is now.

 

Vasher and Tillman - Blasphemy! Not really. Good players with solid market value. Again, they would hurt...

 

Again, contract issues. We just re-signed them, and both received solid bonus dollars. I think we would likely have to restructure several players just to absorb the cap hit we would receive.

 

Lastly, Olsen and Clark - I don't see this as a fix, as they ae currenly involved in the OL/WR solution to our woeso see anyone go.

 

We just gave Clark new money, and Olsen is the expected replacement.

 

I see several issues w/ a trade. We can trade players like RMJ or DM, who have little value to the team, but who would likely get us very little in return value. Others might offer more return value, but would the player we receive off-set the hole we would create, like if we traded a player like Wale, Anderson, Brown, Vasher, etc.

 

The other thing to consider is this. Are we one player away from greatness? If we were, I could see my way to trading more value. But even if we did get a solid OG or OT in return, would that really be the difference? I am not against a trade, but I think getting someone available is simply more likely.

[bear trap]

I've been thinking about our OL almost exclusively, this off season. I'm thinking we have some highly tradeable talent on this roster that we can utilize to upgrade the OL. The reason I'm talking trade is because I want a rising player, not a cap cut or scrap heap player. Here's a look at our tradeable players.

 

D. Manning - will not hurt us to be gone. Cap friendly for whoever may want him.

R. Manning -Obviously already on the block. Cap friendly for us and may fill a huge need for a deprived team.

A. Adams - Looking good for us, but we are deep. Cap friendly for both.

I. Idonije - Again, we are deep. Buffalo still may want. Cap friendly again.

A. Ogunleye - Please no booing here. He would hurt, but an OL would help more than his loss.

M. Anderson - young talented enigma. Has value for contract and potential.

M. Brown - Instant help for a team that needs a FS piece of the puzzle.

L. Briggs - Did not sign a monster deal, so is very tradable. We'd eat some bonus, but could net a stud player. Depth behind him.

Vasher and Tillman - Blasphemy! Not really. Good players with solid market value. Again, they would hurt...

Lastly, Olsen and Clark - I don't see this as a fix, as they ae currenly involved in the OL/WR solution to our woeso see anyone go.

 

Sooo, I'm mainly looking at a plethera of D players that could be moved for the greater good of the team. IMO - the depth would absorb the shock of the loss. I'd hate to see anyone go, but I'm passionate about getting the OL stronger in a hurry. I'm not of the mindset that we have the talent on O to even be game managers. Our season may ride in the balance.

 

 

Screw that! The Mannings are the only ones I could fathom. I see no need to trade away anyone other than one of the mannings . I don't know how much we would get for either, but probably not a top tier O-linemen. Why do we need to trade a player? You see it every year when a team realizes due to injury they can't make do with what they have. Last year the panthers realized this and traded for our safety c. harris. They didn't lose a player. I say if this organization opens their eyes and sees what we all see they should trade a pick from next year. If going for a top tier lineman, throw out a 3rd rd pick. If just a serviceable guy, one that will be average but with potential throw them a 4th or 5th rd pick. My goodness if other teams can do it we should be able to. Carolina benefited from it. The real list we should be disecting is the list of teams that are deep at o-line who may be willing to part ways with one of their own for a 3rd,4th,or 5th rd pick. Maybe someone like the bengals, eagles, phins, rams, jags, broncos theres got to be some teams willing to part with a player they don't necessarily need due to their depth. Heck I'm all for trading away one of the mannings whoever will save us the most (probably manning jr) and signing bentley to take his place. Somethings gotta give because we're really screwed if tait or st clair go down. Could you imagine if tait goes down? Get someone valuable in here jerry that way we can count on beekman to be strickly a back-up plan. If we trade away our 3rd rd pick and get a good value at o-line then we trade one of the mannings to the browns and try to get a 4th or 5th for them. Lose a 3rd, get a 5th. We may be dropping two rds, but we're also getting the help for this years line. Heck, I'd be willing to bet given our outlook of what teams think we'll do this year there will be teams jumping on a 3rd rd pick because they may perceive us as having a high rd pick. Like I said the real value is getting what you need. Trading a player for another will not work because teams aren't going to give you crap for anyone but a player who is a good contributor to this team. What would you give for a 3rd or 4th string defensive player?

[fenom283]

Since we have such little value in tradeable players why not picks. We do poorly in the early rounds anyway why not trade them for a really good RT (cuz nobody will trade a LT they are almost impossible to come by) and if we have to move Tait back over to LT till they can get this Chris Williams situation in order.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

When you pride yourself on defense (and supposedly running the ball), you don't trade one or both pieces of one of the best CB tandems in football.

[Mongo3451]

I don't mind trading picks, but the post was for tradable players. I just want something done so we don't completely suck. Picks, players or a combination of both, I don't care. There may not be a doable scenario in the whole league. If we are lucky, we'll find a team as desparate as we are that has talent we need while needing talent we have to offer. Neither team will get killed on the deal and everybody is better. Odds are unlikely though.

.

[Clenched_CLAW]

I don't mind trading picks, but the post was for tradable players. I just want something done so we don't completely suck. Picks, players or a combination of both, I don't care. There may not be a doable scenario in the whole league. If we are lucky, we'll find a team as desparate as we are that has talent we need while needing talent we have to offer. Neither team will get killed on the deal and everybody is better. Odds are unlikely though.

.

 

Jags might be willing to part with a LT (NFL.com vid about Jags camp - about 1 minute in) for a DE (saw another vid where Del Rio was P.O. ed @ the rookie DE holding out).

 

 

Something good MUST happen...

 

...miracle trade...

 

...miracle recovery by Williams on his way to ORoY Honors...

 

...something...Right?!?

 

 

 

"...with a tiny bit of magic, all your dreams will come true."

[madlithuanian]

Something willhappen...our QB will get pulverized...

 

Jags might be willing to part with a LT (NFL.com vid about Jags camp - about 1 minute in) for a DE (saw another vid where Del Rio was P.O. ed @ the rookie DE holding out).

 

 

Something good MUST happen...

 

...miracle trade...

 

...miracle recovery by Williams on his way to ORoY Honors...

 

...something...Right?!?

 

 

 

"...with a tiny bit of magic, all your dreams will come true."

[Pixote]

Our OL looked a-ok to me in the first preseason game. I would wait to see what we have to start with. Personally, we might be a whole lot better on the OL than many want to believe.

[bear trap]

Our OL looked a-ok to me in the first preseason game. I would wait to see what we have to start with. Personally, we might be a whole lot better on the OL than many want to believe.

Sorry pix, I just can't bring myself to be as optomistic as you are. We went against a Chiefs defense that lost Jared Allen, and didn't have the moster DT playing in Glen Dorsey. They will quite possibly be the weakest defensive fronts in this league. I would have to believe that we could swing a deal for a 3rd or 4th rd draft pick next year to get a quality guy. Heck the elite players are only getting 3rd rd picks in todays market. Rarely do you see a team offer a second or a 1st. Maybe on incentives, but I would think that to get a quality o-lineman, a third rder would be sufficient. Not to at least bring in one guy is just too much to risk. I'm not only talking about the possibility that our line could suck (it may or may not) I'm talking about how we are 1 injury away from being a sliding door the the opponents defensive front.

[CubbiesFan07]

As badly as we have drafted in the 1st round I wouldn't mind trading our 1st Rd pick for an O-Lineman.

[bowlingtwig]

As badly as we have drafted in the 1st round I wouldn't mind trading our 1st Rd pick for an O-Lineman.

 

 

I want to agree with Pix here. The Oline did look pretty good and lets also remember one of the things that killed us last year was injuries and I honestly don't expect Olin Kruetz to play as bad as he did last year. Tait should be be better this year now that he is at his best position. I worry about St Clair considering that he has never been a starter before. I do love the fact that St Clair is versatile but can he be a starter?

[BearFan2000]

When you pride yourself on defense (and supposedly running the ball), you don't trade one or both pieces of one of the best CB tandems in football.

 

completely agree. Have we forgotten how long it took us to find/develope one of the better CB tandems? How many rejects have we lined up a CB who got burned more often than my toast in the morning.

 

Looking at that list, my first thought is complete rebuild. Trading away that many talented players on defense (mannings aside) Even if we could scrounge some OL depth and possibly a decent line. We'd be left with a team that has a decent line, depleated defense full of backups at critical positions, and somewhat mediocre tallent at the offensive skill positions (skill being used lightly here).

 

At this point the true strength of this team is Defense and special teams. If we can field an average offense we may have a chance.

 

It's like a dog with two bones. The dog walks up to the water and sees his reflection he has a bone in his mouth but wants the one he sees in the reflection so he drops the one he has to grab the other one and now he's got nothing. I just don't want to see us weaken a strength just to try and plug a leaking bucket that is our offense.

[Mongo3451]

Looking at that list, my first thought is complete rebuild. Trading away that many talented players on defense (mannings aside) Even if we could scrounge some OL depth and possibly a decent line. We'd be left with a team that has a decent line, depleated defense full of backups at critical positions, and somewhat mediocre tallent at the offensive skill positions (skill being used lightly here).

The intention of the list was NOT to suggest we trade all of those players. It was just players that we could possibly trade.

 

At this point the true strength of this team is Defense and special teams. If we can field an average offense we may have a chance.

We can't and won't field an average offense with the talent we have. The only way to imagine that is to pick up help on the OL. On the defensive side we are double stacked at all positions. Trading one or two players would not have as significant impact to the defense as it would improve the offense. Addition by subtraction. Not trying to talk you into anything, but I think you misunderstood the intent of the original post.

[nfoligno]

We can't and won't field an average offense with the talent we have. The only way to imagine that is to pick up help on the OL. On the defensive side we are double stacked at all positions. Trading one or two players would not have as significant impact to the defense as it would improve the offense. Addition by subtraction. Not trying to talk you into anything, but I think you misunderstood the intent of the original post.

 

One. How much will an OL addition really help the offense though? Are we just one Ol away from being a good offense? That is part of the problem. I understand a trade when you are a player away, but we have MANY questions on offense, and I am not sure adding one OL will be enough.

 

Two. I disagree trading away some of that defensive talent you mention wouldn't have a big affect on the defense. If you trade just one of our starting CBs, it could hurt. We hope McBride or Graham could step in, but we don't know. Briggs? Wale? Mike Brown. trading away any one of those players could have a pretty big effect on the defense.

 

Three. I don't want to trade away one of our better defensive talents for the same reason I don't want to move Tait back to LT. On the OL right now, we have a weak left side but look strong on the right. If we move Tait, we would not be strong on the left, and would now be more questionable on both sides. I would rather one strong side and one weak side than two below average sides. Ditto w/ the trade concept. Adding an OL will not make our offense good. Maybe it would prevent us from being worst in the league, but it would still not be good. At the same time, you take a potentially great defense, and make it less.

 

If we talk about trading a player like D.Manning or RMJ, that is one thing, but I don't want to trade away any of our starters, or even any of our DL depth.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

We could trade Wale. With so much depth at DL with Adams, Baldwin (if he makes the team), Anderson, Bazuin, Brown, Dvoracek, Harris, Harrison, Idonije, and Toeaina. Although, I'm not sure how ready Bazuin is. If he can handle it, can Idonije be a DE if we need him to be? Otherwise, we'd only have Anderson, Brown, and Baz as our 3 DEs with a butt-load of DT's.

[Mongo3451]

name='nfoligno' date='Aug 14 2008, 10:03 AM' post='43905']

One. How much will an OL addition really help the offense though? Are we just one Ol away from being a good offense? That is part of the problem. I understand a trade when you are a player away, but we have MANY questions on offense, and I am not sure adding one OL will be enough.

One. I said average and you morphed it into good to head off your post. Not a fair start to your argument.

 

Two. I disagree trading away some of that defensive talent you mention wouldn't have a big affect on the defense. If you trade just one of our starting CBs, it could hurt. We hope McBride or Graham could step in, but we don't know. Briggs? Wale? Mike Brown. trading away any one of those players could have a pretty big effect on the defense.

Two. Argue the point of which unit would improve/decline the most with the addition / loss of a player. Again, you morphed my post to fit your argument.

 

Three. I don't want to trade away one of our better defensive talents for the same reason I don't want to move Tait back to LT. On the OL right now, we have a weak left side but look strong on the right. If we move Tait, we would not be strong on the left, and would now be more questionable on both sides. I would rather one strong side and one weak side than two below average sides. Ditto w/ the trade concept. Adding an OL will not make our offense good. Maybe it would prevent us from being worst in the league, but it would still not be good. At the same time, you take a potentially great defense, and make it less.

Three. Don't you think one of our better defensive talents would land us a really good O lineman? Thus helping the O more than hurting the D? Our O will destroy our D this year, if something is not done. Our skill positions will be good enough to do their part, but the O-line will destroy any hope they have to be successfull.

 

If we talk about trading a player like D.Manning or RMJ, that is one thing, but I don't want to trade away any of our starters, or even any of our DL depth.

I wouldn't want to see any starters go also. It just simply makes sense, if the right value is out there. We'll get an indicator on how the OL holds up on the 3rd pre-season game. Of course it will be too late to get quick value out of any trade.