Chris Williams likely done for year

[Da Bears 88]

Bears lose rookie: Even though the prognosis is 10-to-12 weeks for the return of Bears rookie left tackle Chris Williams, it's more likely he'll miss the season. He had surgery for a herniated disk. It's likely the Bears will keep him on the roster like they did with Rex Grossman a couple of years ago, with the hope he could be available in late November or December. Still, the chances of him doing anything for the team this year are not good.

 

Link

[DaBearSox]

Link

 

 

Rookie OL missing the season, I don't think he will contribute much coming back late in the season. Rex at least had a few years under his belt and knew what was going on.

 

This pick smells like the next Marc Columbo to me...

[AZ54]

Clayton is the master of the obvious. Realistically I think the Bears are keeping him on the roster in the event we have an injury late in the season. Despite what many think, St Clair isn't going to totally bomb at LT. He was adequate there last year, nothing like famous Bears LTs Qasim Mitchell and Mike Gandy. He did struggle with the better speed rushers but there's a lot of guys that do. If the right side of our line is solid as we expect with Tait/Garza/Kreutz then we should be able to slide protection over to the left to help him out. Given the fact St Clair has been practicing all summer at LT and has a few games under his belt I don't see why he'd be worse than last year. Barring an injury I don't see Williams coming back midseason and unseating St Clair but I wouldn't mind having him as insurance in case either starting OT goes down.

 

There's an added benefit to this as well. I believe if a player is on injured reserve he cannot practice with the team.

 

reference:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

"Ross Tucker, a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules."

 

Keeping Williams on the roster means he'll be able to practice this season and that will help him as we head into next year.

[bradjock]

Clayton is the master of the obvious. Realistically I think the Bears are keeping him on the roster in the event we have an injury late in the season. Despite what many think, St Clair isn't going to totally bomb at LT.

 

Agreed completely. Not to mention we have until at least September 1st to make a decision on whether or not to save a roster spot for Williams or IR him. Hopefully, at that point the Dr.'s should be able to better speculate about how successful the surgery was, how his recovery. In other words, Clayton doesn't know a damn thing.

 

There's an added benefit to this as well. I believe if a player is on injured reserve he cannot practice with the team.

 

Keeping Williams on the roster means he'll be able to practice this season and that will help him as we head into next year.

 

There's no way in hell we keep him on the roster just so he can practice. There's several fringe players who are healthy and could help this team but might not make it: Hanie, Hass, Toenia, Monk, Rod Wilson . . . just to name a few. Not to mention it looks like we're keeping 4 running backs which make the roster spots even tighter. There's no way in hell we keep Williams just for practice.

[BearFan2000]

My take on this at this point is if he's out 10-12 weeks that means since day 2 of training camp thru roughly week 9 of the Regular season at the earliest to start practicing again. That's if all goes according to plan. I don't think we should rush him back. Being cleared to practice doesn't equal game shape not to mention he'll be way behind the curve. If the season goes pear shaped and he's physically capable of playing I don't see a problem getting him some reps at the end of the season. Which at that point the season would be all about next year anyway. But if holding him out this season means he's healthy and 100% to start next year. Then that's the situation I'd favor. This does remind me a lot of the Columbo situation. Though Colombo did make it onto the playing field and got hurt in a game situation and not 2 days into training camp. Mark's injury was much more severe and serious than Chris' injury and surgery. Not that a herniated disc is anything to dismiss it was diagnosed as a one of the more minor/less invasive surgeries. The Bears keeping him on the 53 to me means that they believe/hope that he might be able late in the season.

 

Here's another twist lets say for the sake of argument that somehow the offensive line plays much better this year with the guys we have or with someone who comes available that we pick up. I think that buys us time to let him heal fully. And if this happens that will likely mean that the Offense will have a chance to be ok.

[Guest TerraTor]

Jerry Angelo will be out of a job by the time Chris Williams comes back. Plus Im waiting to see what the "non-related" back injury is. God I hate lineman and on top of it you draft one at 14 who. #1- Is a "finesse" pass-blocker and #2- had been dropped on boards due to back problems...

[CrackerDog]

Jerry Angelo will be out of a job by the time Chris Williams comes back.

 

I'll take that bet. Care to put your money where your mouth is? Say, $100? You win if Jerry Angelo is fired before Williams comes back.

 

Or are you just being a blowhard?

[Guest TerraTor]

I'll take that bet. Care to put your money where your mouth is? Say, $100? You win if Jerry Angelo is fired before Williams comes back.

 

Or are you just being a blowhard?

 

I cant make that bet, cuz you know this organization doesnt fire idiots.

[madlithuanian]

Actually, it's more of a case that this organization doesn't fire people under guaranteed contract...

 

They pay for players as we've seen, but they don't pay for management. Angelo and Lovie were right out of Big Lots! How dare we consider shoping at Macy's and get Cowher and Wolf!

 

I cant make that bet, cuz you know this organization doesnt fire idiots.

[CrackerDog]

I cant make that bet, cuz you know this organization doesnt fire idiots.

 

Like I thought.

[CrackerDog]

Actually, it's more of a case that this organization doesn't fire people under guaranteed contract...

 

They pay for players as we've seen, but they don't pay for management. Angelo and Lovie were right out of Big Lots! How dare we consider shoping at Macy's and get Cowher and Wolf!

 

They also aren't known for firing the two main guys who brought us to a Superbowl the Superbowl before last. If you honestly think we should dump Lovie and JA right now given what we've seen over the last 4 years, I'm not sure what to say.

[Connorbear]

They also aren't known for firing the two main guys who brought us to a Superbowl the Superbowl before last. If you honestly think we should dump Lovie and JA right now given what we've seen over the last 4 years, I'm not sure what to say.

Agreed. To me, the evaluation of JA and Lovie has alot to do with this yr. If we crap out this yr, I would say their job security should be seriously evaluated.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

We can debate who or what brought us to the Superbowl exactly... But, I agree, the club won't let them go.

 

But yes, I would like to dump Lovie. Angelo, I will reserve judgement on. He's a virtual failure on O and virtual genius on D. So that gives him a C average. We are mimicing the Bucs, and they got nowhere other than one good season from Gruden's knowing of the Oakland playbook and great D. We could have one season like that with this regime (and some argue we already did and missed the boat), but I do not see many to come... I would prefer to have a better head coach personally. Lovie has shown me he is a poor judge of coordinators, he is a poor mid-game adaptor, his players get too many silly penalties that shows lack of preparation or care, and his vaunted cover 2 has been figured out by the entire league.

 

Unless we shock the world and actually do well, I see Lovie on the hot seat potentially... Angleo could get a pass easily.

 

...and I'm acutally shocked that you are at a loss of words!

 

They also aren't known for firing the two main guys who brought us to a Superbowl the Superbowl before last. If you honestly think we should dump Lovie and JA right now given what we've seen over the last 4 years, I'm not sure what to say.

[CrackerDog]

We can debate who or what brought us to the Superbowl exactly...

 

No, we can't. It wasn't the "great" Mark Hatley.

 

But yes, I would like to dump Lovie. Angelo, I will reserve judgement on. He's a virtual failure on O and virtual genius on D. So that gives him a C average. We are mimicing the Bucs, and they got nowhere other than one good season from Gruden's knowing of the Oakland playbook and great D. We could have one season like that with this regime (and some argue we already did and missed the boat), but I do not see many to come... I would prefer to have a better head coach personally. Lovie has shown me he is a poor judge of coordinators, he is a poor mid-game adaptor, his players get too many silly penalties that shows lack of preparation or care, and his vaunted cover 2 has been figured out by the entire league.

 

Unless we shock the world and actually do well, I see Lovie on the hot seat potentially... Angleo could get a pass easily.

 

...and I'm acutally shocked that you are at a loss of words!

 

Lovie has, in my opinion, done poorly with picking coordinators. I agree with you there. Although, I don't believe he was exclusively to blame. Also, I'm going to give both one more season to prove me wrong in my opinion.

 

The D was hurt all season last year and they got almost no help from the offense. With that they still went 7-9. I think your comment that the Cover 2 has been "figured out" is one hell of a stretch. When you've got the horses, it works as well as any other scheme. Babich seemed to grow a bit during the season. I'm not nearly as disappointed in him as I am in Turner. Although, I'd love to see what Turner could do with a real QB out there.

[madlithuanian]

Sure we can! I'm not sure it was either...I think it was the players despite everything. Also, I think Ron Rivera deserves far more credit than he is given.

 

I have not complaint in the least giving Lovie another year before making a decision. I'm just impatient...

 

Turner is a bum and I am not convinced at all about Babich. I still would much rather have kept Chico.

 

No, we can't. It wasn't the "great" Mark Hatley.

 

 

 

Lovie has, in my opinion, done poorly with picking coordinators. I agree with you there. Although, I don't believe he was exclusively to blame. Also, I'm going to give both one more season to prove me wrong in my opinion.

 

The D was hurt all season last year and they got almost no help from the offense. With that they still went 7-9. I think your comment that the Cover 2 has been "figured out" is one hell of a stretch. When you've got the horses, it works as well as any other scheme. Babich seemed to grow a bit during the season. I'm not nearly as disappointed in him as I am in Turner. Although, I'd love to see what Turner could do with a real QB out there.

[CrackerDog]

Sure we can! I'm not sure it was either...I think it was the players despite everything.

 

Someone named Jerry gets the credit for bringing in those players. I believe I did a post on the old site noting that 3 players; Brown, Kruetz and Urlacher were the remaining guys from Hatley's era. There may have been one or two others.

 

I loved Chico too. But the fact is, this team had no offense last season, was banged up all year... And still almost went 500. I didn't like much of what I saw from Babich for a while but the results weren't too bad, given the circumstances.

 

I think Lovie has done a good job overall and isn't even close to being on the bubble for me. I'm a bit more patient than you, I guess. Unless we're talking about Nfoligno's nonsense, that is.

[DrunkBomber]

We should hire another GM and let JA handle defense and have a new guy who is good at evaluating offensive talent come in.

[nfoligno]

We should hire another GM and let JA handle defense and have a new guy who is good at evaluating offensive talent come in.

 

Frankly, I have said for a while Angelo should hire an offensive "special assistant" or "consultant". He can stay the GM, and keep the power, but bring in someone w/ a better knack for the offense.

 

As great as that sounds, at least to me, its not going to happen.

[nfoligno]

I think Lovie has done a good job overall and isn't even close to being on the bubble for me. I'm a bit more patient than you, I guess. Unless we're talking about Nfoligno's nonsense, that is.

 

Well, if you are going to drag me into this:)

 

I am down on Angelo, and have been, but also give credit where it is due. On defense, he has drafted well. Not only drafted, but brought in players outside the draft. Simply put, Angelo can scout/evaluate defensive talent. Problem is, he has shown little ability on the other side, and that is a big reason I blast him. If he were our head defensive scout, I would give him HUGE props, but his responsibility if for both sides of the ball, and he has simply done very little on that side.

 

As to our coaches, I have little respect for them. Sorry, but I truly believe we got to the SB in spite of our coaches, rather than due to them. Look at the talent we had on the field on defense, and the lack of injuries we suffered. Does it take genius coaching to get good results out of great players?

 

Turner - Part of me want to give him a bit of a pass, as he has not had much to work w/. But then I see our playcalling and game planning, and I just can't give him a pass. Wolfe up the gut gets all sort of talk, and is an example, but I think the problems go so far beyond that. I don't think he has been good in the area of Xs and Os. So often, I see us pass against a weak run defense/ good pass defense, and hear Turner talk about how they expected us to run, so we passed. That is a nice thought, but you are still pitting our weakness against an opponents strength, rather than attacking their weakness. ( How many players on offense really developed? I blast Angelo, but is every pick THAT bad, or is part of the problem our inability to develop talent?

 

Babich - No question we suffered many injuries, but is that enough to totally give him a pass. Did injuries at some areas cause awful tackles in others? Our tackling is embarassing, and doesn't that have to come back to the coaches? I also hate what I saw from our DL last year. I have harped on this before, but we run a very vanilla pass rush. To me, it is incredible how well our DL can do at times considering how little we scheme to enhance their play. We don't stunt, or use mis-direction. Our DEs take nearly exclusive wide angles to the outside, and rarely, if ever, use inside moves. Then you have our pro bowl LBs who are not good tacklers. We wanted to use them to attack more, but did we ever use mis-direction or hide the blitz, or did we simply send them up the gut? Some say the problem is our LBs don't know how to blitz well, but again, is that not coaching? I am not going to rip the secondary much, as I can't expect much from them when you don't generate much pass rush. And this doesn't even touch the run defense.

 

Yea, injuries were a factor, and a big one, but not the only factor IMHO. I have said this before, but even w/ the injuries, I argue we still had more talent on the field than many other teams who played better. IMHO, we have loads of talent on defense which masks weak coaching. When that talent level is dropped, the inability of our staff comes to the front.

 

Lovie - Just not a fan. IMHO, he was over-rated when he came in. St.L was never a great defense under him. They gave up points and yards, but were able to create a ton of turnovers (due in large part to having a great offense that put the D in great situations) and gained a rep off those turnovers. W/o turnovers though, his defenses are very average, if not below. Under him, our defense shows shoddy technique, and very vanilla play. Sometimes talent makes that vanilla play look good, but sometimes you need more from the coaches to create better opportunities, and I don't think Lovie has it in his book.

 

I also question his personality. W/ Lovie as the coach, how often does our team reflect that mean attitude you want in a football team. More often, our players act laid back. And how about the off-field issues our team suffers. How much of that is due to a coach who doesn't bring much fear to the table, and is more often the understanding parent who lets you get away w/ anything.

 

Yes, we went to the SB, but I simply question how much of that was coaching, and how much of that was simply having the talent to get there. I grade a coach more whether a team over-produces or under. If a team over-produces, based on talent, I figure they were well coached. How often can we really say our team over-produced?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I cant make that bet, cuz you know this organization doesnt fire idiots.

I agree. What a moron JA is! Drafting bums like Mark Anderson, Briggs, Vasher, Tillman, Hester, Urlacher, Alex Brown, and Mike Brown is totally un-called for!!!!!!11

[AZ54]

What a thread...started with Chris Williams migrated to Mark Hatley and all the way back to fire Lovie or fire JA. Silly me I thought Shoop was still to blame for our offensive problems.

[AZ54]

Agreed completely. Not to mention we have until at least September 1st to make a decision on whether or not to save a roster spot for Williams or IR him. Hopefully, at that point the Dr.'s should be able to better speculate about how successful the surgery was, how his recovery. In other words, Clayton doesn't know a damn thing.

 

 

 

There's no way in hell we keep him on the roster just so he can practice. There's several fringe players who are healthy and could help this team but might not make it: Hanie, Hass, Toenia, Monk, Rod Wilson . . . just to name a few. Not to mention it looks like we're keeping 4 running backs which make the roster spots even tighter. There's no way in hell we keep Williams just for practice.

 

 

I didn't mean to imply he'd be on the roster solely to practice. He'd be on the roster only if he's a viable backup. Without him we drop all the way down to Barton as our backup at OT. That might be a bit painful at RT but would be Qasimesque at LT. I was trying to make the case that there is likely no intent that he take over for St Clair at midseason just because he's healthy. I think that would be a good decision.

[Pixote]

OK, let me get a grip on what is being said.

 

JA sucks and should be fired; Lovie sucks and does not know how to motivate a team or coach; the coaching staff sucks and has no idea how to develop talent; the Bears are cheap and throw nickles around like man hole covers; we have no OL, QB, & WRs; Urlacher is over-rated; We should trade our talent on D to get players on O; etc... (sorry, I am getting sick trying to remember all the negatives being mentioned on this forum.....)

 

GOD I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SEASON TO BEGIN. Then maybe we can take a deep breath, look back at all these concerns, and come down to reality. I think the reality is that the Bears are not the team they showed last year. Last year was a disaster, but not for the reasons some think, it was because of injuries for the most part. I expect us to return to the same team we were in 2006 that went to the Super Bowl. I think we have a chance to have a better offense than the 2006 team (not a great offense, but better than 2006). I think our defense is a top 5 defense. I think our special teams is number 1 in the NFL. I think we will kick ass this year!

[CrackerDog]

How often can we really say our team over-produced?

 

Depends on your definition. I'd say given the disaster last season could've turned out to be, we still ended up with a respectable record and beat the Packers twice. Could've been much worse if the players quit on Lovie.

 

I think both coordinators are on the bubble this season but Lovie is safe. I think both will step up their game this season but a lot depends on the talent they have on the field. If the O Line is as bad as it seems or if the D suffers huge injuries again, it could easily take them both down.

 

I'm with Pix... Although I haven't had nearly as much Koolaid... I think the season is still one we can look forward to. This team has the potential to surprise to the upside. And when and if it does, it's going to make all you negative nancies look foolish. Again.

[CrackerDog]

I think we will kick ass this year!

 

From your lips to God's ears, my friend.