Welcome to 4-12

[CrackerDog]

I think the decision has been made. IMHO, if they were still unsure, we would have seen more of Orton in the game.

 

Yep.

[Pixote]

With that being said, I strongly suspect we will see an announcement very soon as to who our starter will be. I have to believe they would want that decision made before the start of next week's game.

 

I think the decision has been made. IMHO, if they were still unsure, we would have seen more of Orton in the game. Now w/ that said, it could still go either way. They could feel they saw enough good from Rex, and thus there was no need to keep Orton in there longer. Or, more likely IMHO, they could have felt Orton had the edge leading into the game, Rex needed to do something w/ his playing time, and if they didn't feel he did, Rex may have made their decision (in favor of Orton) for them.

 

I agree, I suspect, for better or worse, we will find out soon enough, Orton will be named the starter by Tuesday or Wednesday of this week.

 

I also suspect they may then bring in another QB as a #3 option. Then we will be looking at OLmen that may now or in the near future become available.

[azbearsfan]

Then again, maybe that is the best way to evaluate our QBs. I don't care what we do between now and the start of the season, I think any hope for a great OL is false hope. Most likely, our QBs are going to be spending a lot of time under pressure this year, thus seeing what they do now under pressure may be a better evaluation than if (like in the KC game) the OL actually looks good and protects the QB.

 

Whoever is going to start for us will face a ton of pressure. We should accept that and see who deals w/ the pressure better now.

 

 

There is a difference between pressure and getting hit before you can look at anything.

[nfoligno]

So, you would be part of the "not many". Your post proves you are included in the "stockpile OL" camp. Many other places in the message boards' archives, however, had adamant opposition to the thought of drafting OL with multiple high draft picks.

 

I give up. I tried to look through the history, but just don't care enough. There were others who felt strong about the OL. Maybe not as strong as you and I, maybe equal, but no question we were in the minority. Half the board seemed to want Mendenhall in the 1st. Another 40% seemed to want an OT in the 1st, but were not on board w/ going OL w/ other picks after. I would say another 5 or 6% might have been fine w/ getting another OL w/ in the first 3 or 4 rounds. But there was a very tiny minority that were in favor of truly drafting OL hard and heavy.

 

I remember throwing out how I felt we could draft OL in every round. I said it sort of as a joke, an exaggeration, but at the same time, it wasn't a great exaggeration.

 

I had a sig that was my mock draft, and every player drafted was OL. For all I know, every one of those players I liked pre-draft will turnout to be busts, but the point is still this. As you said, w/o an OL, whats the point of having QB, RB, WR and TEs.

[bradjock]

I think the decision has been made. IMHO, if they were still unsure, we would have seen more of Orton in the game. Now w/ that said, it could still go either way. They could feel they saw enough good from Rex, and thus there was no need to keep Orton in there longer. Or, more likely IMHO, they could have felt Orton had the edge leading into the game, Rex needed to do something w/ his playing time, and if they didn't feel he did, Rex may have made their decision (in favor of Orton) for them.

 

Agreed. Although I wouldn't put it past us to wait until Thursday afternoon to make the announcement. I always thought going into this training camp that Orton didn't have to win the job, he just had to prove that he's not worse then Rex. In other words, if everything is equal, Kyle is our starter. With Rex getting his ass kicked last night, it makes it much easier to make that decision.

 

That being said, I'd love to see some continuity with our WR's. It seemed like we were constantly shuffling in Booker/Lloyd/Bradley/Hester and "Stone Hands" Bennett. With the exception of Lloy & Orton on the two minute drive, I didn't feel like any of these guys were in long enough to really show what they can do.

[nfoligno]

That being said, I'd love to see some continuity with our WR's. It seemed like we were constantly shuffling in Booker/Lloyd/Bradley/Hester and "Stone Hands" Bennett. With the exception of Lloy & Orton on the two minute drive, I didn't feel like any of these guys were in long enough to really show what they can do.

 

Agreed on the WRs. I think that is partially why they always said they wanted to make the QB decision by now. I think they are planning on matching all positions to the QB position. As they decide on a QB, they decide on other positions, and begin trying to form some continuity.

[nfoligno]

There is a difference between pressure and getting hit before you can look at anything.

 

Is there? The point is, if this is how our OL is going to play, whatever the QBs are facing now is what they can expect to face during the season. Whether you want to call it pressure or whatever, to me, it is a good way to evaluate our QBs, as they are going to have to deal w/ during the season.

[Pixote]

That being said, I'd love to see some continuity with our WR's. It seemed like we were constantly shuffling in Booker/Lloyd/Bradley/Hester and "Stone Hands" Bennett. With the exception of Lloy & Orton on the two minute drive, I didn't feel like any of these guys were in long enough to really show what they can do.

 

I think that 2 minute drive did 2 things, assure Orton the starting QB position, deserved or not is debatable and I am sure will be argued here on the forum, and I think baring a reversal in the next two games, it appears that LLoyd has stepped up into a starters role, as he made some outstanding catches and could be a bargain at the price we paid.

[selection7]

Teams go after Rex because they don't think he can handle pressure. How many times have we seen this before? For Rex, he actually did pretty well, but that's probably not going to be good enough.

 

Anyway, there were plenty of plays were Rex had time...enough to complete 60% of his passes anyway. Yes there were too many where Rex had no time but most of you are exagerrating bigtime. I've seen far, far worse on other NFL teams and a good bit worse on the Bears. If what you all were saying was true you'd be hearing more about Seattle's defensive line today. ...and the other team would have had more than 1 sack in the first half (all day actually, but 2nd half doesn't count).

 

The bad news is that the day's worst OL play result came from Tait, so if we can't get solid, consistent play out of him then I agree, it's hopeless. At that point we're having to replace almost the whole OL. It is preseason though so it's better that the OL goes through this now while there's still time to improve.

[Da Bears 88]

It won't matter who the QB is when you have this sad excuse for an OLine.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I give up. I tried to look through the history, but just don't care enough. There were others who felt strong about the OL. Maybe not as strong as you and I, maybe equal, but no question we were in the minority. Half the board seemed to want Mendenhall in the 1st. Another 40% seemed to want an OT in the 1st, but were not on board w/ going OL w/ other picks after. I would say another 5 or 6% might have been fine w/ getting another OL w/ in the first 3 or 4 rounds. But there was a very tiny minority that were in favor of truly drafting OL hard and heavy.

 

I remember throwing out how I felt we could draft OL in every round. I said it sort of as a joke, an exaggeration, but at the same time, it wasn't a great exaggeration.

 

I had a sig that was my mock draft, and every player drafted was OL. For all I know, every one of those players I liked pre-draft will turnout to be busts, but the point is still this. As you said, w/o an OL, whats the point of having QB, RB, WR and TEs.

I know I was part of the camp that talked and talked and talked about the Bears taking lineman after lineman in this years draft. I was the one who probably bitched more than anyone regarding our oline last off-season and the pure importance of taking at least 3 olineman with our first 4 picks.

[CrackerDog]

I give up. I tried to look through the history, but just don't care enough. There were others who felt strong about the OL. Maybe not as strong as you and I,

 

Jeez, pat yourself on the back much? I was talking about how our line was getting old before the start of the season LAST YEAR. Several agreed then.

 

Get a room, you two.

[bowlingtwig]

I am glad that the WR's finally came to play last night, a few good catches and a nice job by Lloyd dragging his feet on that 2 minute drive.

[AZ54]

After watching the game via DVR the left side of our Oline was far BETTER than the right side. St Clair and Beekman both held up well on their individual blocks, as did Kreutz. The right side, in particular Tait early in the game, was poor. Garza didn't look good either. Seattle often brought extra guys and did a great job mixing up where they were coming from. Our line didn't handle the stunts well and when they did the RB (Forte) failed to make the block needed to give the QB time to get rid of the ball.

 

As bad as it looked during the game (I was pretty upset myself) after rewatching it I don't think it's a total disaster and many things can be corrected. In fact, if Forte picks up a couple of blocks in the middle as is his responsibility Grossman would have the time needed to complete a pass. It was often that pressure up the middle that forced Grossman to stay deep in the pocket as pressure came around from the outside. Forte did look better as the game went along and I hope as he gets experience he'll get better.

 

Here's my biggest gripe. When do our WRs break off their route when a blitz is on? On several of these plays Grossman had to wait for WR to run routes as deep as 15 yards. Remember the one where he lofted the ball for Davis way down field? I didn't see anyone run a short route on that play. When there's a blitz, especially 6 guys rushing the passer, the entire offense should adjust not just the Oline.

 

Now on to Rex, on a couple of these plays he had guys underneath and didn't make the quick throw. On another play or two he didn't step into the throw even though pressure was coming up the middle the guy was blocked and he room to step into the throw. Same old Rex. I'll agree that Rex had to win the starting job and he didn't IMO. He wasn't as bad as he's been in the past but he didn't stand head and shoulders above Orton. Orton didn't stand out either but the tie goes to the QB with less experience and the arrow pointing up (I hope).

[nfoligno]

The bad news is that the day's worst OL play result came from Tait, so if we can't get solid, consistent play out of him then I agree, it's hopeless. At that point we're having to replace almost the whole OL.

 

And the sick part? By the time all OL holes are filled, we will likely need a new center too.

 

Its sad to think how far away we are.

[bowlingtwig]

At least its somewhat good news.

[bradjock]

After watching the game via DVR the left side of our Oline was far BETTER than the right side. St Clair and Beekman both held up well on their individual blocks, as did Kreutz. The right side, in particular Tait early in the game, was poor. Garza didn't look good either. Seattle often brought extra guys and did a great job mixing up where they were coming from. Our line didn't handle the stunts well and when they did the RB (Forte) failed to make the block needed to give the QB time to get rid of the ball.

 

I'm in the process of rewatching the game, and the one thing I noticed is the first time Rex is sacked, that appeared to be Beekman's fault. He went to his right to help Kreutz, and the guy blew right past him on his left side. That was the first penetration. Tait really struggled against the speed guys. I thought St. Clair looked pretty damn good.

 

As bad as it looked during the game (I was pretty upset myself) after rewatching it I don't think it's a total disaster and many things can be corrected. In fact, if Forte picks up a couple of blocks in the middle as is his responsibility Grossman would have the time needed to complete a pass. It was often that pressure up the middle that forced Grossman to stay deep in the pocket as pressure came around from the outside. Forte did look better as the game went along and I hope as he gets experience he'll get better.

 

I wonder at what point guys like Forte are supposed to get loose and look for the pass? Forte & the TE's keep trying to block, Rex keeps looking down-field, and then it's over. If the blitz is on, why not dump it to one of those guys immediately? Favre has made a career out of doing that.

 

Here's my biggest gripe. When do our WRs break off their route when a blitz is on? On several of these plays Grossman had to wait for WR to run routes as deep as 15 yards. Remember the one where he lofted the ball for Davis way down field? I didn't see anyone run a short route on that play. When there's a blitz, especially 6 guys rushing the passer, the entire offense should adjust not just the Oline.

 

Agreed. I've often wondered if this is Rex's fault, Turners, or the WR's. Hell, if it's 3rd & 10 you know they're bringing the house. Why can't we counter that?

 

Now on to Rex, on a couple of these plays he had guys underneath and didn't make the quick throw. On another play or two he didn't step into the throw even though pressure was coming up the middle the guy was blocked and he room to step into the throw. Same old Rex. I'll agree that Rex had to win the starting job and he didn't IMO. He wasn't as bad as he's been in the past but he didn't stand head and shoulders above Orton. Orton didn't stand out either but the tie goes to the QB with less experience and the arrow pointing up (I hope).

 

All things being equal, the job goes to the guy who's less likely to get sacked. That's Kyle. Competition over.

[Da Bears 88]

All things being equal, the job goes to the guy who's less likely to get sacked. That's Kyle. Competition over.

With this O-Line, Orton will be running for his life.

 

So, stop drinking his kool aid and acting like he's a "god".

 

I swear every time it comes to Rex, he sucks.

 

But for Orton he can never get sacked.

 

Get real man.

[BearSox]

I'm in the process of rewatching the game, and the one thing I noticed is the first time Rex is sacked, that appeared to be Beekman's fault. He went to his right to help Kreutz, and the guy blew right past him on his left side. That was the first penetration. Tait really struggled against the speed guys. I thought St. Clair looked pretty damn good.

 

The first sack was Forte's fault, but that's a tough play for any RB. The Bears had a slide protection call on to the right, and because Beekman was uncovered, it was a 4 man slide instead of 3. So, the only one that wouldn't slide down on that would be St. Clair (or the backside tackle), and he is locked up with the end, even though Tatupu was over him. Usually in slide protection, the RB is responsable for that LB.

 

I can't really blame the Bears at all for that sack, as Seattle did have the perfect play call to counter our offensive call.

[BearSox]

With this O-Line, Orton will be running for his life.

 

So, stop drinking his kool aid and acting like he's a "god".

No one is acting like he's a "god." In fact, most people here realize that he sucks. However, some people, like me, feel he sucks a little less then Grossman.

 

Hopefully, instead of being afraid to take a hit like Grossman, Orton will have the courage to actually step up into the pocket once in a while.

[BearSox]

Regarding this OL topic, read my signature line. Aside from me and nfo, not many were on board with an OL heavy draft. While I think Forte and Bennett have a chance to be very good, I would much rather have seen at least two more OL prospects drafted. The Bears were in a position to pick up some highly regarded talent, but didn't do it.

 

And now there's a situation where the QB, RB, WR, and TE position can't be properly evaluated because the OL is so bad. There is simply no way to know how well a QB will make a read when he's being hit and pressured every play. There are no reads other than the "hot read". There's no way to know how well a RB will see a cutback lane when he's being cross body blocked by a DT behind the line of scrimmage. There is no way of knowing if a WR or a TE will get separation and catch the ball, because the play never gets time to develop, and the QB never gets a chance to throw the ball where is should be.

 

This is a bad situation all around, but it could have been lessened if the Bears went heavy on the OL.

An Oline heavy draft wouldn't have done much for the present, as most rookie linemen rarely ever make much of an impact. However, it would have helped for the future.

[AZ54]

Barton may develop for us. He looked good out there. He definitely needs a year to work on his strength. Beekman as well but I'd also like to see better run blocking from him too. We'll need to replace Garza and for sure we'll need Kreutz replacement in a couple years. I assume Williams will be back next year. I hope Tait improves but maybe this is the end of the line for him.

 

Anyone else catch the line in the article on William's injury about how he was told not to do squats during his Freshman year? Seems clear to me the connection between that and his lack of strength in run blocking. If his back truly is healthy now he may come back stronger next year.

[BearSox]

Barton may develop for us. He looked good out there. He definitely needs a year to work on his strength. Beekman as well but I'd also like to see better run blocking from him too. We'll need to replace Garza and for sure we'll need Kreutz replacement in a couple years. I assume Williams will be back next year. I hope Tait improves but maybe this is the end of the line for him.

 

Anyone else catch the line in the article on William's injury about how he was told not to do squats during his Freshman year? Seems clear to me the connection between that and his lack of strength in run blocking. If his back truly is healthy now he may come back stronger next year.

I think Barton could be an eventual replacement for Tait. He has looked good from what I've seen. And he could replace Tait as soon as next year.

 

The thing I liked most about Beekman was that he was quick off the ball and agressive. On one run play, I saw him give one hell of a chip block on the DT to help out Kruetz, and then he waddled up to backer and made an excellent block on him. However, I think he will be the eventual replacement for Garza at RG as I don't think he has the mobility you'd like for a LG. He will suffice for now though.

 

I don't know what has caused Garza's downfall, but he was very mediocre, if not worse, last year and has looked pretty bad this year. Perhaps it's his knee's causing him to play so poorly.

[madlithuanian]

You guys certainly were all about the OL!

 

I know I wasn't...

 

My plate of crow isn't too tasty, but I'll power it down...

 

I give up. I tried to look through the history, but just don't care enough. There were others who felt strong about the OL. Maybe not as strong as you and I, maybe equal, but no question we were in the minority. Half the board seemed to want Mendenhall in the 1st. Another 40% seemed to want an OT in the 1st, but were not on board w/ going OL w/ other picks after. I would say another 5 or 6% might have been fine w/ getting another OL w/ in the first 3 or 4 rounds. But there was a very tiny minority that were in favor of truly drafting OL hard and heavy.

 

I remember throwing out how I felt we could draft OL in every round. I said it sort of as a joke, an exaggeration, but at the same time, it wasn't a great exaggeration.

 

I had a sig that was my mock draft, and every player drafted was OL. For all I know, every one of those players I liked pre-draft will turnout to be busts, but the point is still this. As you said, w/o an OL, whats the point of having QB, RB, WR and TEs.

[bradjock]

So, stop drinking his kool aid and acting like he's a "god".

 

I swear every time it comes to Rex, he sucks.

 

But for Orton he can never get sacked.

 

Get real man.

 

Checked the stats at ESPN.com. In 2007:

 

Kyle Orton: 3 starts, was sacked twice

Rex Grossman: 8 starts, was sacked 25 times. That's TWENTY-FIVE FREAKING TIMES!!! That means Rex gets sacked more then 3 times a game. Orton didn't get sacked 3 times in 3 games.

 

I never acted like Orton was god. I only implied that he wasn't as bad as Rex.

 

Orton does get sacked . . . just not multiple times every game.

 

So "You get real man."