Welcome to 4-12

[madlithuanian]

You and I also talked about it it at length...

 

I agree much of the debate was Mike Williams or Benson, but there were several of us that really liked DJ. He was my #1 choice, though I also have to admit Benson was my #2. I just loved the idea of adding Williams to our trio, and frankly, I don't think I was sold on Briggs at the time. But there were several of us who loved DJ. I am not an avid college fan, but Texas is the one team I see most every game, and was very high on DJ.

 

W/ that said, and Mongo and I have talked about this since, I think DJ would have been a mistake. He is a WLB, and as good as he is, I am not sure he is better than Briggs. If we did draft DJ, I fear he would have never developed into the player he has, or maybe we would have missed out on Briggs if we moved him to SLB. So, even though I liked DJ, who has become a damn good LB, I am not sure that would have been that good of a pick for us.

 

Similar to Merriman or Ware, two players who have become great for other teams, I question how well they would have developed for us.

[madlithuanian]

You and I also discussed it at length...

 

I agree much of the debate was Mike Williams or Benson, but there were several of us that really liked DJ. He was my #1 choice, though I also have to admit Benson was my #2. I just loved the idea of adding Williams to our trio, and frankly, I don't think I was sold on Briggs at the time. But there were several of us who loved DJ. I am not an avid college fan, but Texas is the one team I see most every game, and was very high on DJ.

 

W/ that said, and Mongo and I have talked about this since, I think DJ would have been a mistake. He is a WLB, and as good as he is, I am not sure he is better than Briggs. If we did draft DJ, I fear he would have never developed into the player he has, or maybe we would have missed out on Briggs if we moved him to SLB. So, even though I liked DJ, who has become a damn good LB, I am not sure that would have been that good of a pick for us.

 

Similar to Merriman or Ware, two players who have become great for other teams, I question how well they would have developed for us.

[jason]

Funny, everyone seems to be an "I said DJ" guy now. But on the web site, all I recall was a debate between Williams and Benson. I guess my memory is faulty...

 

<_>

 

I'll admit to being a Mike Williams guy, but as always, I say that we can never know what would have happened with a specific player on a different team.

 

Mike Williams could have been a star with the Bears, or maybe just average, or maybe a bust. The unique situations of each team cause players to react, develop, grow, regress, blow up, etc. Given the right team, Benson could already be considered one of the top RBs in the NFL, reeling off multiple 1,000+ yard seasons.

 

At that time, Benson had to fight with TJ and Mike Williams had to fight with Roy Williams and Charles Rogers, thereby lessening each player's possible impact. I'm sure this hurt their psyches and helped to lead towards eventual bust status. The following year Benson still had to deal with TJ being the #1 guy, and the Williams' situation with the Lions was handled with complete incompetence - an agreed upon concept by absolutely everyone in football with the exception of the Lions' organization. After that, both players were too damaged mentally to salvage.

 

I truly believe that prima-donna athletes are often-times fragile mentally, and when they don't dominate like they have their entire lives, they tend to not deal with it as well as the average person who has had to deal with defeat and failure on a much more consistent basis.

[CrackerDog]

Check your memory Cracker...I know 100% that nfo and I were on the DJ bandwagon big time!

 

Oh, I believe you. No, really I do.

 

<_>

[CrackerDog]

I'll admit to being a Mike Williams guy,

 

And you still think you could do JA's job better than him?

 

OK, I don't mean to break your balls. I agree with you that there is more to it than the pick itself. I always argued that Randy Moss on the Bears would've been like putting earrings on a pig. When he missed the meeting with the Bears and they passed on him, I agreed with their decision. 20 other teams agreed and the Queens ended up with a GREAT player. He's also a toolbox but I don't really mean this to be a discussion about Moss. The point is, he wouldn've have succeeded here, IMO, given our QB situation.

 

There's a chance any player drafted into a better situation for them may change their fortunes. In some cases, like Benson, I think his lack of maturity would've poisoned his potential no matter where he went. I don't know about Williams but I think the Lions fans I know think he was the same way.

 

Tough to read a guys heart and desire. Tough to know the really important stuff. Lot's of GM's tend to focus too much on the 40 times and not enough on the other aspects that make a guy a good football player and/or person.

[GrizzlyBear]

At that time, Benson had to fight with TJ and Mike Williams had to fight with Roy Williams and Charles Rogers, thereby lessening each player's possible impact. I'm sure this hurt their psyches and helped to lead towards eventual bust status. The following year Benson still had to deal with TJ being the #1 guy, and the Williams' situation with the Lions was handled with complete incompetence - an agreed upon concept by absolutely everyone in football with the exception of the Lions' organization. After that, both players were too damaged mentally to salvage.

 

I truly believe that prima-donna athletes are often-times fragile mentally, and when they don't dominate like they have their entire lives, they tend to not deal with it as well as the average person who has had to deal with defeat and failure on a much more consistent basis.

 

TJ was a whole lot better then Charles rogers or Roy williams, Rogers is outa football and Williams has shown flashes but not the player TJ was. Williams was a sloutch and never made it outs Camp as starter he had no work ethic. Benson showed signs last year till he got hurt, then went donw the tubes with behavior and effort. Williams showed from the get go he was not 1st round worthy.

[Mongo3451]

name='CrackerDog' date='Aug 20 2008, 09:46 AM' post='44522']

Funny, everyone seems to be an "I said DJ" guy now. But on the web site, all I recall was a debate between Williams and Benson. I guess my memory is faulty...

So now you are mis-quoting posters to support your arguments like NFO. Good work. Next time read the part where I said Benson was the no-brainer/obvious pick at #4.

[jason]

And you still think you could do JA's job better than him?

 

OK, I don't mean to break your balls. I agree with you that there is more to it than the pick itself. I always argued that Randy Moss on the Bears would've been like putting earrings on a pig. When he missed the meeting with the Bears and they passed on him, I agreed with their decision. 20 other teams agreed and the Queens ended up with a GREAT player. He's also a toolbox but I don't really mean this to be a discussion about Moss. The point is, he wouldn've have succeeded here, IMO, given our QB situation.

 

There's a chance any player drafted into a better situation for them may change their fortunes. In some cases, like Benson, I think his lack of maturity would've poisoned his potential no matter where he went. I don't know about Williams but I think the Lions fans I know think he was the same way.

 

Tough to read a guys heart and desire. Tough to know the really important stuff. Lot's of GM's tend to focus too much on the 40 times and not enough on the other aspects that make a guy a good football player and/or person.

 

It's cool...I admit that he would be considered one of my "misses". However, like I have said, and since that which has never happened can't be proven or disproven, it's an unknown.

 

On the other hand, I was screaming for Randy Moss, and absolutely despised the Curtis Enis pick...proven by the following that was submitted years ago. Say It Ain't So - Curtis Enis

 

Essentially, what you are saying is what I agree with. It's impossible to know whether or not a player would have done well with another team. Moss ended up on the Vikings and became one of the best WRs in history, IMHO. If he had come to the Bears, there's no guarantee he would have done the same thing, something with which you agree. I'll tell you though, I'll take the talent Moss has from the knees down over an entire team of Curtis Enis' all day.

[jason]

TJ was a whole lot better then Charles rogers or Roy williams, Rogers is outa football and Williams has shown flashes but not the player TJ was. Williams was a sloutch and never made it outs Camp as starter he had no work ethic. Benson showed signs last year till he got hurt, then went donw the tubes with behavior and effort. Williams showed from the get go he was not 1st round worthy.

 

Nonetheless, they were both 1st round WRs selected in the previous two years, and pretty much made it impossible for Mike Williams to have any major impact. I'd disagree with you on MWilliams, however, I think the guy was damn good coming out of college, and had one of the best sets of hands in recent college football history. In a different situation, where he was the red-zone go to guy (like he would have been with the Bears), I think it would have been different.

[CrackerDog]

So now you are mis-quoting posters to support your arguments like NFO. Good work. Next time read the part where I said Benson was the no-brainer/obvious pick at #4.

 

I didn't misquote anyone. It was a generic statement about a population to which you may be a part. I didn't quote you at all. The quotation marks above were intended to indicate a general premise that group ascribes to. I doubt if anyone thought I was using your words there. If anyone did, I've now clarified and I hope you'll accept my explanation.

 

Damn, it really hurts to be compared to NFO.

[CrackerDog]

I'll tell you though, I'll take the talent Moss has from the knees down over an entire team of Curtis Enis' all day.

 

I can't argue there. In hindsight. But damn if Enis didn't look like he should be a stud coming out of college. Ah well, I have a lot of "misses" on my docket. Glad I'm not GM.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I've been saying for months it's going to be a 3-5 win season. Our defense is good, but injury prone and are getting slower a bit. Our OL is bad and would have been even with Williams. Our QB situation sucks (although if you ask Bears88, if we start Grossman we'd go 19-0). Our RB is talented but he is a rookie from a small school so we can't expect around 1600 yards or anything. Our WR group sucks, and our great looking young TE (Olsen) seems soft.

[soxfan101]

I wanted DJ or Mike Williams. I was dead wrong about Williams, but in fairness I really didnt see him play much mostly bought into the hype machine while I did see DJ and Benson and didnt care for Benson at all. I was actually hoping Braylon Edwards would fall to us, but for that to happen the 49ers had to take Rodgers.