Orton chosen over Grossman as starting quarterback

[nfoligno]

Two points on Orton/Hester deep routes.

 

One, w/ this OL, I doubt we will see many opportunities for the QB to stand in the pocket and hit Hester deep. More likely, if we try to run Hester on a deep route, the QB will be killed before Hester has time to develop his route.

 

Two, I think Hester can still be a big play threat, but instead of catching the ball 50 yards downfield, he can catch shorter, quick slants, and then turn it upfield. To me, that is where he is most dangerous. If he develops that part of his game this year, I think that would be FAR better than his simply getting a big play here and there over the coarse of the season.

[nfoligno]

I havent heard Rex complain at all. As far as a fair shot, he didnt get one. When he resigned he was told him and Orton would be on a level playing field for the job and that wasnt the case. There isnt anyone to blame but JA though. Lovie couldnt choose Rex, that doesnt make it fair though.

 

Rex did have his shot. Pretty much every reporter who was at the practices said Orton had a slight lead after the end of practices. This is the phase most expected Rex to do more. This is when our QBs really don't face a legit pass rush, and where Rex' defeciences were supposed to be hidden. I think, heading into camp, the general consensus was Rex would do well in practice, and by the time the games began, would have the edge in the battle. But according to most, Rex didn't do that great in practice, and Orton actually had the edge.

 

You can question that all you want, but how many practices did you attend. I didn't, and can only go off the reports of those who did, and those felt Orton had the edge.

 

I think too many fans are acting like everything was decided in these two games, but the games were the final evaluation of a month plus long evaluation process. Rex was given an opportunity, and simply didn't do enough w/ the opportunity he was given.

[sprout]

I don't know if I want another short, strong armed, gunslinger type and that's what Chase Daniels is.

 

I'd like a tall, strong armed, gunslinger type!

 

 

LOL! Yea Shane Mathews Jr.

 

You know that QB from Missouri looks pretty good. And we should be drafting pretty high next year..

[madlithuanian]

I hear ya...

 

I agree with the decision that was made but it was a little unfair. Kyle got to play against KC's defense and at home. KC's D isn't exactly good. Rex plays on the road in Seattle where it is really tough to play to begin with. Seattle's D is really good also and they love to bring the pressure all the time regardless of who they play. So yeah it was a little unfair. And now Orton will get to play against 49ers D!!!!! Are you kidding me. lol. Kike I said though I believe Lovie made the right move because I think we just needed a change. We have all seen enough of Rex to throw up.

[madlithuanian]

flea,

 

thank you for that blunt honesty!

 

I am ready to the Orton era to begin...

 

i never said rex complained. im on about here! never heard such whingin over a mediocre qb bein benched.

[CrackerDog]

Two points on Orton/Hester deep routes.

 

One, w/ this OL, I doubt we will see many opportunities for the QB to stand in the pocket and hit Hester deep. More likely, if we try to run Hester on a deep route, the QB will be killed before Hester has time to develop his route.

 

Bullshit. You still have to do it and if our guys can't get it done in the line with a fully developed game plan whereby that pass rush is dampened by our running threat and play action, we're dead. Hester can be a deep threat this year. And you don't need 7 step drops to go deep with someone as fast as Hester. Five should be plenty.

 

Two, I think Hester can still be a big play threat, but instead of catching the ball 50 yards downfield, he can catch shorter, quick slants, and then turn it upfield. To me, that is where he is most dangerous. If he develops that part of his game this year, I think that would be FAR better than his simply getting a big play here and there over the coarse of the season.

 

This part is correct. But his real value will be the threat he poses causing teams to double cover him. That leaves the underneath open for slow old guys like Booker.

 

PS. I would ignore it normally but I'll be damned if you haven't used the wrong version of the word "course" something like 439 times here. Coarse, the way you're spelling it, means rough. Usually I'm just schooling you on football but thought I'd tackle something a little different today.

[nfoligno]

Bullshit. You still have to do it and if our guys can't get it done in the line with a fully developed game plan whereby that pass rush is dampened by our running threat and play action, we're dead. Hester can be a deep threat this year. And you don't need 7 step drops to go deep with someone as fast as Hester. Five should be plenty.

 

I am not saying Hester never runs a deep pattern. Not even close. But the reality is, regardless who our QBs is, those deep patterns are simply going to be a small part of his game. He will run some deep patterns, but IMHO, if that is the majority of what he runs, he will be wasted. Say what you will, but if he runs mainly deep patterns, he will find the QB on his back the majority of the time. I want to get Hester the ball, and to me, that means most of his pass' will be short ones he can turn up field. Does that mean I would not ever send him deep? Hell no. I want to really mix it up. Heck, I even want to move him around the LOS to better free him up.

 

I simply think many fans focus too much on bombs, when the reality is, even w/ Rex, that was only a very minor part of the passing game.

 

One more thing. While Rex is more the gun slinger, I disagree w/ the idea Orton simply has a rag arm. I have seen him hit receivers downfield. He may not throw it on the same rope as Rex, and may not take as many gambles downfield, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable. I like the article that talked about how Orton has the downfield potential, and the more and more comfortable he gets under center, the more likely he is to begin taking more gambles.

 

This part is correct. But his real value will be the threat he poses causing teams to double cover him. That leaves the underneath open for slow old guys like Booker.

 

This sounds so great in theory, but have we seen it translate into reality? I am talking about for us. Rex has the cannon, right? Berrian was considered a downfield threat, and one of Rex' favorites, right? So, w/ that pair starting together, and Berrian running plenty of downfield patterns, why did we continue to see defenses stack the box?

 

To me, that is a misconception of those who want Rex to start over Orton. This idea that w/o Rex, we don't threaten downfield and allow defenses to play a smaller field agaisnt us. Problem w/ this thinking is, w/ Rex, defenses played that small field against us. Rex may be capable of hitting a downfield target once in a while, but that never bought him defenses respect. For every one downfield toss, he was sacked three or more times, and often turned it over a few more. So even w/ Rex, defenses continued to stack the box and attack, because they simply didn't fear our QB. Hell, we saw it once again the other night as Seattle went after Rex.

 

To me, defenses are more likely to stack the box w/ Rex, because they feel he mentally folds when attacked. Orton may not rip apart defenses downfield, but if he can hit the hot reads, or find the open receivers (left open due to the blitz) that can counter and backoff an aggressive defense far more than hitting a downfield WR once or twice a game.

 

PS. I would ignore it normally but I'll be damned if you haven't used the wrong version of the word "course" something like 439 times here. Coarse, the way you're spelling it, means rough. Usually I'm just schooling you on football but thought I'd tackle something a little different today.

 

Actually, I know I do it about 1/2 the time, and just don't take the time to care. So long as people know what I mean, I don't bother w/ the rest. I am sure if an english teacher were on this board, he/she would pull his/her hair out.

[CrackerDog]

This sounds so great in theory, but have we seen it translate into reality? I am talking about for us. Rex has the cannon, right? Berrian was considered a downfield threat, and one of Rex' favorites, right? So, w/ that pair starting together, and Berrian running plenty of downfield patterns, why did we continue to see defenses stack the box?

 

Actually, yes, I saw it plenty in 2006 and 2007. Our TE had a wonderful year working that part of the field. Moose was more effective (although still sucked) because he generally didn't get the best corner and wasn't doubled as often as Berrian. It also helped Rashied, Jones and Mckie who all had nice years catching the ball. AP had better than 50 catches last season and our TE's both compiled nice numbers. We need someone filling Berrian's role on this squad or those numbers will suffer.

 

I agree with your other comments regarding Orton not being a rag arm and I'm not someone arguing for Rex based on this aspect of football. But you can't ignore the fact that a team that doesn't have a deep threat (or one that refuses to incorporate it into the game plan regardless) generally finds it tougher in the middle of the field.

[nfoligno]

Actually, yes, I saw it plenty in 2006 and 2007. Our TE had a wonderful year working that part of the field. Moose was more effective (although still sucked) because he generally didn't get the best corner and wasn't doubled as often as Berrian. It also helped Rashied, Jones and Mckie who all had nice years catching the ball. AP had better than 50 catches last season and our TE's both compiled nice numbers. We need someone filling Berrian's role on this squad or those numbers will suffer.

 

Are you saying defenses played back on us? Are you saying defenses didn't stack the box and attack us? Wow, that is not what I saw and I doubt what our players (especially our OL and RBs) saw. I saw such a lack of respect for our passing game it was sad. If we had Chad Johnson on one side and Terrell Owens on the other, it wouldn't matter. It wasn't our WRs who were disrespected so much as our QB. If Rex see's a rusher on his heel on the 3rd step, deep patterns are a waste. Defenses attacked Rex, w/ the idea of getting to him before he had time to fire downfield. By in large, it worked.

 

I know the numbers you are talking about, but I am not sure if that is simply because of Berrian working downfield. Don't forget that 2006 is when we finally got Rex to start all year. Before him, the likes of Hutch, Quinn, Krenzel, Stewart, Mathews, Chandlier (please let me stop here) where the QBs. You can argue we were able to do more because Rex could throw downfield, or it could simply be that Rex was a better QB than the hacks listed.

 

I simply question the small number of downfield throws having the effect you claim. In 2006 (I think we would agree Rex' best year?) Rex threw 48 passes 31-40 yards downfield. I assume this is long enough to "deep threat" status, 48 times. That is 48 times out of 480 pass attempts. 10%. He also had 7 passes over 41 yards. Of the 48, he completed 25.

 

So he completed 5% of his downfield passes. I question how much that 5%, or even the 10% if you go off attempts, equates to all the stats you throw out there. I think those stats have far more to do w/ having a different game plan, better QBs, better run game (2006 at least), and better receivers (better than the likes of David Terrell and Co. at least).

 

I agree with your other comments regarding Orton not being a rag arm and I'm not someone arguing for Rex based on this aspect of football. But you can't ignore the fact that a team that doesn't have a deep threat (or one that refuses to incorporate it into the game plan regardless) generally finds it tougher in the middle of the field.

 

Sure, a team w/ a "legit" deep threat has an advantage. But I would make two points.

 

(a) A legit deep threat is not simply having a receiver w/ speed, or a QB w/ an arm. A legit deep threat is having a QB/WR combo that hits downfield consistent enough to warrant a defenses extra attention. If Rex only hits downfield 5% of the time, that is not going to be enough to back off a defense. So just chucking it 2 or 3 times a game, maybe completing one, doesn't mean we have a deep game. I would argue we have not had a legit deep game, even w/ Rex and Berrian, and would further point to how defenses continued to play us as proof.

 

( While I agree it is best if you can have a legit downfield threat, at the same time, I think you can do quite a bit w/o it too. Whenever a team blitzes, there is an open area/receiver. If your QB can quickly find and hit that receiver, you can make the defense pay for blitzing. If you attack the outside as well as inside, you can spread out the field. If you mix up where/who you send, you can beat a defense. There are simply many things you can do to counter a defense that stacks the box, besides simply chucking it downfield.

[CrackerDog]

While I agree it is best if you can have a legit downfield threat, at the same time, I think you can do quite a bit w/o it too. Whenever a team blitzes, there is an open area/receiver. If your QB can quickly find and hit that receiver, you can make the defense pay for blitzing. If you attack the outside as well as inside, you can spread out the field. If you mix up where/who you send, you can beat a defense. There are simply many things you can do to counter a defense that stacks the box, besides simply chucking it downfield.

 

You talked in a circle with most of this post and I couldn't follow you. So, I'll just say I agree with your comment above as several QB's running the West Coast Offense have had nice careers without much more than an occasional deep toss to keep people honest. It can be done and with the weather conditions in Chicago, I'd say it must be done for a significant portion of the season.

 

By the way, 10% is pretty often for attempts at the deep ball. And if Rex was 50% on those, I'll eat my desk.

[nfoligno]

You talked in a circle with most of this post and I couldn't follow you. So, I'll just say I agree with your comment above as several QB's running the West Coast Offense have had nice careers without much more than an occasional deep toss to keep people honest. It can be done and with the weather conditions in Chicago, I'd say it must be done for a significant portion of the season.

 

I think we basically agree. I agree a deep threat, a legit deep threat, can very much open up the field. Look at what Welker was able to do last year whe NE added a deep threat in Moss. Talk about opening up the middle of the field. At the same time, while it can do wonders, there are other ways to open up the middle, and especially to back guys out of the box, w/o having a big play threat.

 

By the way, 10% is pretty often for attempts at the deep ball. And if Rex was 50% on those, I'll eat my desk.

 

Grab some salt. He was 52.1% on 31-40 yard passes, and while he only chucked it 7 times for over 41 yards, he completed 5 for 71.4%.

 

The point though is that, even though Rex would throw deep, it didn't get defenses to backoff. IMHO, on the majority of downs over the last two years, this team has faced stacked boxes. I think our RBs would attest to this in a heartbeat. So having a deep threat isn't always enough to get defenses to back off out of the box. Even w/ Rex to Berrian as a threat, defenses still attacked, thus I question the argument that if we went w/ Rex over Orton, we would open up the field.

[ParkerBear7]

Yea, I saw the "Roy" video too. Well I'm guessing that's where you are coming from, because alot of the points you make are ones that he did.

 

 

What "Roy" video? not sure what you mean or talking about?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Bears88

 

Quit making excuses for Grossman and downing Orton. Nobody cares that you want to get in bed with Rex while Orton watches. Neither guy is the answer, but when you get the snap, run backwards, and either take the sack or throw off your back foot into the middle of coverage, you aren't going to succeed...at all. And that, sir (or is it mam?), is what Grossman does.

 

When we have our top 5 pick next year, Harper or Stafford will be our QB (hopefully a franchise one as well).

 

Although, you probably think they suck.

[Boston Boxer]

Hmm, i haven't heard Rex complain at all. So please STFU.

 

Keep drinking your Orton kool aid. He'll be done after game 1.

 

whoa big boy...easy on the STFU. Have some respect for a fellow Bears fan

 

and who the hell cares...Rex and Orton both suck. I just hope we run the hell out of the ball.

[flea]

inded I never claimed Orton would come in 7 be the saviour. If they gave Hannie the job I'd have been happy as we wouldn't have Rex at 1

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'll go more in depth on my game thoughts tomorrow, but damn did Orton look fantastic. Good juice on his throws, tremendous pocket presence, and great decision making. Hell of a game Kyle!!!

[Pixote]

I'll go more in depth on my game thoughts tomorrow, but damn did Orton look fantastic. Good juice on his throws, tremendous pocket presence, and great decision making. Hell of a game Kyle!!!

 

I agree. Orton looked poised, the OL gave him excellent protection, he made very good decisions & throws, heck, 20 points in the first half? I think his QB rating was over 120. 4 straight scoring drives with either a FG or TD. I do not know what there was not to like about our offense last night.

[ChileBear]

I agree. Orton looked poised, the OL gave him excellent protection, he made very good decisions & throws, heck, 20 points in the first half? I think his QB rating was over 120. 4 straight scoring drives with either a FG or TD. I do not know what there was not to like about our offense last night.

This game definitely resigned Rex to a backup role. I hope we don't need him. But the way the position attracts injuries, it will be good to have Rex come in, only if needed. I'm psyched about Kyle!

[BearSox]

too be honest, after watching Rex completely suck it up Thursday night, I would not be oppossed to cutting him and bringing in someone else to be the backup... perhaps just cutting ties with him all together would eliminate any possible distractions.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

too be honest, after watching Rex completely suck it up Thursday night, I would not be oppossed to cutting him and bringing in someone else to be the backup... perhaps just cutting ties with him all together would eliminate any possible distractions.

I totally agree.

 

The only question- who to bring in? I wouldn't mind Kyle Boller, but I don't see Baltimore cutting ties with him especially with the fact that Joe Flacco doesn't look very good and Troy Smith, a 5'8 guy, is their starter.

[balta1701-A]

I totally agree.

 

The only question- who to bring in? I wouldn't mind Kyle Boller, but I don't see Baltimore cutting ties with him especially with the fact that Joe Flacco doesn't look very good and Troy Smith, a 5'8 guy, is their starter.

FWIW, here's a list of the current most likely #2 quarterbacks for the rest of the league. With Grossman there, the Bears are actually in one of the better spots in that boat.

[DrunkBomber]

Brady Quinn is better, hmmmmmm

[Connorbear]

Brady Quinn is better, hmmmmmm

Are you serious??? Based on what?

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Public Relations

 

 

Are you serious??? Based on what?

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

Public Relations

 

There you go.

 

Peace