Always tell the truth

[CrackerDog]

I remind myself what it was like before we had him as our GM and "Mikey" was running the show.

 

Thanks Pix. I'm going to have nightmares tonight...

[nfoligno]

Who is looking like shit in Green Bay right now.

 

I'm not being a smartass, just trying to point out what a crapshoot all of this is.

 

Sorry, but how right is it to judge a rookie QB who is in his first camp? he may not look good today, but can you/we honestly take anything away from that. How many rookie QBs come in and light it up?

[nfoligno]

Of course, he and the Bears could be lying about his recovery too. I know there are members here who will always take the side that allows them to rip Jerry or the Bears in general. Not saying you're one of them, Mongo. Just don't know what to say to all the negativity around here anymore.

 

I understand what you are saying, but do you think it not fair to question here? You yourself has asked why he didn't tell the truth from the start. For several weeks we listened to Lovie tell us how Williams was day to day, and how the injury wasn't anything to worry about. Maybe he was being honest and really believed that, but w/ the recent news (from Williams), I think it more than fair to question this staff today.

 

You say he is ahead of schedule in his recovery, but how? He just had the surgury. Has he even begun his rehab yet? How can he be ahead of schedule when he has just had the surgury. At best, he is on schedule, as he had his surgury on the planned date, but I am not sure we can say he is ahead of schedule yet.

[nfoligno]

I personally can not understand all of the criticism JA is getting. I think he is doing all he can to give us the best chance of winning. Does he do everything everyone on the forum wants, no. Does he do everything I would like to see him do? Of course not. However, I think he is doing his best to give us the "edge".

 

Fans will always look to disagree with management when things are not so rosy. It is far easier to point out mistakes made in the past than successes. All GMs make mistakes in draft selections and personnel moves. This is not an exact science. In many cases it is a matter of the "best educated guess".

 

I think the criticism is very understandable. Angelo doesn't get much criticism for his work on the defense. Maybe a couple posters, but even I give him props on the defensive side of the ball. But the job of the GM is to build both sides of a football team, and to date, Angelo has not shown he can develop the offense. Until he proves otherwise, I think criticism in this regard is very fair.

 

Any time I begin to second guess JA I remind myself what it was like before we had him as our GM and "Mikey" was running the show. With that bit of flashback, I thank (insert who every you pray to, if you do so) that we have JA as our GM. (Trying like h*ll to be politically correct LOL).

 

Is angelo better than Wanny? Few would find a leg to stand on if they wanted to argue different. But we were one of the worst run teams for years. Just because we are better than that doesn't mean we have done so well as to avoid criticism. If you have an offense that is worst in the league, and then is say 25th, it is better, but is it good?

[CrackerDog]

I understand what you are saying, but do you think it not fair to question here? You yourself has asked why he didn't tell the truth from the start. For several weeks we listened to Lovie tell us how Williams was day to day, and how the injury wasn't anything to worry about. Maybe he was being honest and really believed that, but w/ the recent news (from Williams), I think it more than fair to question this staff today.

 

I think the article quoting JA makes this all clear.

 

You say he is ahead of schedule in his recovery, but how? He just had the surgury. Has he even begun his rehab yet? How can he be ahead of schedule when he has just had the surgury. At best, he is on schedule, as he had his surgury on the planned date, but I am not sure we can say he is ahead of schedule yet.

 

You really ought to read the papers, son. All of this is readily available out there on the internets... LINK

 

"The good news is Williams had the stitches removed Thursday and has already started working out. Bream told him he's ahead of schedule."

 

"I want to put the pedal to the metal but they won't let me," Williams said. "They're making me take it pretty slow and be pretty consistent. The healing time is something that you can't speed up. But with that being said, I can do a lot of things as far as gaining my strength back, I can do upper body, I can do lower body, I can do just about everything working my core."

[madlithuanian]

In Moss's case it wasa a huge risk reward. His upside was crazy.

 

But Williams was ranked no better than Otah. Would you have skipped a heart-beat if we took Otah over Williams? I know many were hoping for such. I could see if you were talking a caliber player of Jake Long over Otah, but risking on inury guy like WIlliams over Otah now seems foolish in hindsight...if not in foresight.

 

Yep. Risk/Reward. Moss slipped to 20th. Happens every year. People take chances on character issues, health concerns, signability, etc.

[Mongo3451]

name='CrackerDog' date='Aug 25 2008, 07:54 AM' post='44927']

Every one of them has taken a risk. And every one of them has busts of their own. (Even though clearly Williams is far from a bust at this point.)

That's not the point. The point was, knowing that he had a prior herniated disk. They are usually chronic and never completely heal.

 

All the articles I'm reading about the back situation is he's ahead of schedule. I'm not a doctor. He played on this "chronic" back problem for 4 years and kicked major ass doing so... How good can the guy be with it repaired?

I hope he is, but I'd rather see him shut down for the season so he has the best chance to re-define his core and come back strong.

 

Of course, he and the Bears could be lying about his recovery too. I know there are members here who will always take the side that allows them to rip Jerry or the Bears in general. Not saying you're one of them, Mongo. Just don't know what to say to all the negativity around here anymore.

Jerry brought the scrutiny on himself by pulling a Belichick. We all cried for greater for OL help. You started early last season and Jerry's lone band aid was a tackle that was taken off some people's boards. I was still fine with the pick and still am. What I expected though was another OL drafted early or a free agent. JA has but all his eggs in one basket before and come up bare, so when he veils information, I get a little tweaked.

[madlithuanian]

I swear I'm going to regret the Bears not taking Mendenhall...I just have a feeling.

 

And we could have just taken Broham w/ our 2nd.

 

Not saying I wanted Mendy, but not sure what all the trade talk is when we could have had both players he talked about w/o trades.

[nfoligno]

I swear I'm going to regret the Bears not taking Mendenhall...I just have a feeling.

 

Not IMHO. Everything I have read out of Pitt is pretty negative. Seems he appears lost. While I would not think twice if he were a QB, or any of a number of positions that usually takes time to develop, he is a RB, and that is one of the few positions that "get it" sooner rather than later.

 

Right now we have a 2nd round pick RB who appears ahead of the curve, while Mendy appears well behind. That doesn't mean it will stay that way, but just pointing out that it isn't like he is taking the team by storm, like some other rookie RBs thus far. I have read rave reviews of Stewart in Carolian, McFadden in Oakland, Rice in Baltimore and Johnson in Tenn, not to mention Forte in Chicago. At the same time, most of what I have read about Mendy has been pretty negative.

 

I still think OL was the way to go in the 1st, but questions from the get go Williams. He wasn't off my board, as some teams may have done, but he was not my first choice, or even my 2nd.

 

For me, the concern about Williams was more than injury, which didn't come up (at least for us) until late. My concern was that he was too much of a finesse OT. While many felt he would be a solid pass blocker, there were questions as to how well he would run block. He just really sounded to me like Brockemeyer. For me, that isn't an awful thing, but at the same time, I just felt there was better available.

[nfoligno]

Why did the Bears front office lie about this instead of telling the truth from the beginning. This actually makes the situation look worse. I would love to hear Angelo's explanation of this.

 

Peace

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...s082408.article

 

According to Angelo, they didn't lie. If you go off what he said, they simply didn't view the injury from 3 years prior as a current issue. So when asked if he had injury questions, Angelo is sticking to the story that Williams had no injury issues, talking in the present tense.

 

I think it is all BS personally. I think he was intentionally skirting the truth, banking on Williams not having problems, and thus the story would never be questioned. But now, w/ the injury, he words, comments and story come into question. So, like a lawyer, he is making the argument that he told the truth, and if you go off what he says now, I can see the argument. I don't buy it, but that is his story, and he is sticking to it.

 

What killed me were some of Angelo comments.

 

Like when he said something about how if the player was 50/50, he would tell us. BS. Or if the player was a risk pick, he would tell us. BS. Come on. Even when GMs take known risks, how often do they admit to such?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Who is looking like shit in Green Bay right now.

 

I'm not being a smartass, just trying to point out what a crapshoot all of this is.

No, it's totally cool. But, who knows. Like, if New England took Ryan Leaf, he could be a current Pro Bowler.

[CrackerDog]

Not IMHO. Everything I have read out of Pitt is pretty negative.

 

I heard this morning he's got a fumbling problem.

[CrackerDog]

Like when he said something about how if the player was 50/50, he would tell us. BS. Or if the player was a risk pick, he would tell us. BS. Come on. Even when GMs take known risks, how often do they admit to such?

 

How often would a player appreciate being catagorized that way?

[nfoligno]

I heard this morning he's got a fumbling problem.

 

I was just never the biggest fan. He had one big year in college, right? And then he entered the draft early. I would like to see a 1st round pick a tad more proven than he was. Further, I didn't care for why he had only one big year. I think he was on the team two years, behind RBs that were not exactly "special" and still couldn't win the starting job.

 

Not saying he isn't a solid talent and all, but I think a big reason he was as hyped and loved as he was on this board is that he went to Illinois. If he played for some other, outside the state college, i doubt Bear fans would have been drooling over him as much as they did.

[nfoligno]

How often would a player appreciate being catagorized that way?

 

I am not arguing that point, in fact, that is in fact part of my point. I am not saying a GM should tell fans he believes the player to be a 50/50 gamble. My point is questioning Angelo saying he would tell us that.

[CrackerDog]

I am not arguing that point, in fact, that is in fact part of my point. I am not saying a GM should tell fans he believes the player to be a 50/50 gamble. My point is questioning Angelo saying he would tell us that.

 

I was agreeing with you.

[madlithuanian]

I've heard similar from some freinds that follow the Steelers. But something tells me when the season and games are on, he's going to get it after a few games.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love what I've seen of Forte, and am glad he's here! It just stems from Mendy's who I wanted and until I see otherwise, I'm going to think he's what we should have got. No basis of reality...just and odd feeling of regret.

 

When we drafted Williams, I just thought ho-hum. I was glad we got an OL, but I was not thrilled or excited in the least about him in particular. I just hoped he'd be OK. I was a bit concerned about the rumors of injury and that he went to a small school. But, I figured I'd get behind the pick and hope for the best. The rest of the draft after Forte had my head spinning...especially with no QB's drafted as we've all discussed before. It was just an odd draft to me.

 

The jury is still out... I eagerly await the verdict.

 

Not IMHO. Everything I have read out of Pitt is pretty negative. Seems he appears lost. While I would not think twice if he were a QB, or any of a number of positions that usually takes time to develop, he is a RB, and that is one of the few positions that "get it" sooner rather than later.

 

Right now we have a 2nd round pick RB who appears ahead of the curve, while Mendy appears well behind. That doesn't mean it will stay that way, but just pointing out that it isn't like he is taking the team by storm, like some other rookie RBs thus far. I have read rave reviews of Stewart in Carolian, McFadden in Oakland, Rice in Baltimore and Johnson in Tenn, not to mention Forte in Chicago. At the same time, most of what I have read about Mendy has been pretty negative.

 

I still think OL was the way to go in the 1st, but questions from the get go Williams. He wasn't off my board, as some teams may have done, but he was not my first choice, or even my 2nd.

 

For me, the concern about Williams was more than injury, which didn't come up (at least for us) until late. My concern was that he was too much of a finesse OT. While many felt he would be a solid pass blocker, there were questions as to how well he would run block. He just really sounded to me like Brockemeyer. For me, that isn't an awful thing, but at the same time, I just felt there was better available.

[madlithuanian]

I read he fumbled twice agasint whoever they played, but also ran for 79 yeards with not a lot of carries.

 

There seems to be up and down...

 

He is a rookie...

 

I heard this morning he's got a fumbling problem.

[nfoligno]

I was agreeing with you.

 

It is so rare, that I just didn't recognize it.

[CrackerDog]

It is so rare, that I just didn't recognize it.

 

I'm not happy about it either. Let's just move on.

[nfoligno]

I'm not happy about it either. Let's just move on.

 

LOL