Politics

[CrackerDog]

OK Republicans everywhere, you've had your chance. The American People gave you 8 years, 6 with complete control over our government. Where has it led us?

 

It's one thing to honestly believe in reducing the size of government. I respect those "Jack Kemp Republicans". I really do. However, the last 8 years have proven those were just words, all along. Instead of smaller government, we got record deficits and incompetent governing. Quite literally, nothing has gone right in 8 years.

 

Oh sure, you can feel good about your lower taxes. But the fact is every dime, and then some, was borrowed money. There will come a time when we'll need to pay the piper... with interest. And the way it was done, nothing more than a huge cash grab for the wealthy... It didn't stimulate the economy. We're far worse off now than we were in 2000 when this absolute joke of a man was elected.

 

The John McCain I saw in 2000 was an honorable man. Since then he's gone south. I don't know if the political realities of being a Republican got to him or what but he isn't a "Maverick" anymore. And, frankly, he scares the shit out of me. I didn't think anyone could be less inspirational than George W. Bush. Can McCain string two sentences together without a massive gaff of one sort or another? This VP pick of his is clearly an act of desperation. He just had to find a woman, any woman. This is like Dan Quayle in a skirt!

 

I'm not going to debate anyone here. This is my one and only post on this topic and hopefully "The Water Cooler" is the right venue for it. I welcome responses but I won't get into it with anyone here.

 

In closing: I'm just asking that Republicans everywhere apologize and go stand in the corner for the next 8 years while WE FIX YOUR MESS. Thank you for your time.

 

UPDATE: I see there's already one emotional responses below and I'm sure there will be others. All I can say is you're free to feel that way. However, you probably ought to find a news source other than Faux News and/or Rush Limpdick. My goodness, the uninformed BS in that post is unreal. I recommend anyone seeing, hearing or reading something they think is obvious bullshit, here or elsewhere, do the research themselves before forming an opinion. If you just believe me or anyone else below, that's your mistake. This election is critical and we all ought to spend the time to get educated on the issues. It's called citizenship and we need to take it seriously. We get the leaders we deserve.

 

[Connorbear]

OK Republicans everywhere, you've had your chance. The American People gave you 8 years, 6 with complete control over our government. Where has it led us?

 

It's one thing to honestly believe in reducing the size of government. I respect those "Jack Kemp Republicans". I really do. However, the last 8 years have proven those were just words, all along. Instead of smaller government, we got record deficits and incompetent governing. Quite literally, nothing has gone right in 8 years.

 

Oh sure, you can feel good about your lower taxes. But the fact is every dime, and then some, was borrowed money. There will come a time when we'll need to pay the piper... with interest. And the way it was done, nothing more than a huge cash grab for the wealthy... It didn't stimulate the economy. We're far worse off now than we were in 2000 when this absolute joke of a man was elected.

 

The John McCain I saw in 2000 was an honorable man. Since then he's gone south. I don't know if the political realities of being a Republican got to him or what but he isn't a "Maverick" anymore. And, frankly, he scares the shit out of me. I didn't think anyone could be less inspirational than George W. Bush. Can McCain string two sentences together without a massive gaff or one sort or another? This VP pick of his is clearly an act of desperation. He just had to find a woman, any woman. This is like Dan Quayle in a skirt!

 

I'm not going to debate anyone here. This is my one and only post on this topic and hopefully "The Water Cooler" is the right venue for it. I welcome responses but I won't get into it with anyone here.

 

In closing: I'm just asking that Republicans everywhere apologize and go stand in the corner for the next 8 years while WE FIX YOUR MESS. Thank you for your time.

 

Let me say 1st that I agree with almost everything you said. I consider myself an Independent but I know my voting record trends toward Democratic.

 

8 years ago I may have voted for John McCain but there is no way in hell now. He has completely sold himself to the devil to get his party's nomination.

 

Now I am 100% behind Senator Obama. I feel he has the vision to get us back on the right track.

 

Agreed also that I am not looking to debate anyone on this site. Whatever you beliefs, I hope at least you will get involved and will vote.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

I just hope if Obama does get in that he doesn't become part of the machine.

 

He's already sold personal rights down the river allowing wire-tapping without warrants and is talking up using force against Russia. That rhetoric sounds too much like the right...

 

I hope we don't get more of the same with a different book cover...

 

Let me say 1st that I agree with almost everything you said. I consider myself an Independent but I know my voting record trends toward Democratic.

 

8 years ago I may have voted for John McCain but there is no way in hell now. He has completely sold himself to the devil to get his party's nomination.

 

Now I am 100% behind Senator Obama. I feel he has the vision to get us back on the right track.

 

Agreed also that I am not looking to debate anyone on this site. Whatever you beliefs, I hope at least you will get involved and will vote.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

Well, Im a Republican, and I can guarantee you, that if you want to open this can of worms youll get torn to shreds. I dont vote based on MTV.

 

What liberals have to realize is that Congress has a severe amount of power along side the President. Congress right now is ran by the Democrats. They took over in 06 and look whats happened to things like gas prices and the housing market since then.

 

Now the libs are backing a socialist who is trying to eliminate the middle class and make it impossible for small business owners to survive in America. He is raising everyones taxes in some way or another and is using it to give health care to people who dont want to work and for things like social programs. For anyone who buys Obamas "Im raising taxes on the rich" speech, you need to read up on what he is proposing. Raising the capitol gains tax effects everyone. Selling a house, buying stock, 401k, whatever it is, he wants to tax it more. What Obama is claiming to be rich is the middle class. By making them pay more he will ultimately create two income levels, rich and poor. With the rich paying for everyone to live. We need the government to back off and we need spending to tighten up like McCain wants, not a free for all like Obama. This isnt a communist country, do research maybe before demanding an apology...

[Connorbear]

Well, Im a Republican, and I can guarantee you, that if you want to open this can of worms youll get torn to shreds. I dont vote based on MTV.

 

What liberals have to realize is that Congress has a severe amount of power along side the President. Congress right now is ran by the Democrats. They took over in 06 and look whats happened to things like gas prices and the housing market since then.

 

Now the libs are backing a socialist who is trying to eliminate the middle class and make it impossible for small business owners to survive in America. He is raising everyones taxes in some way or another and is using it to give health care to people who dont want to work and for things like social programs. For anyone who buys Obamas "Im raising taxes on the rich" speech, you need to read up on what he is proposing. Raising the capitol gains tax effects everyone. Selling a house, buying stock, 401k, whatever it is, he wants to tax it more. What Obama is claiming to be rich is the middle class. By making them pay more he will ultimately create two income levels, rich and poor. With the rich paying for everyone to live. We need the government to back off and we need spending to tighten up like McCain wants, not a free for all like Obama. This isnt a communist country, do research maybe before demanding an apology...

I don't vote based upon MTV either.

 

I think you know Cracker and he was just trying to get under your skin with the apology thing.

 

Let's just stick to football discussion.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

UPDATE: I see there's already one emotional responses below and I'm sure there will be others. All I can say is you're free to feel that way. However, you probably ought to find a news source other than Faux News and/or Rush Limpdick. My goodness, the uninformed BS in that post is unreal. I recommend anyone seeing, hearing or reading something they think is obvious bullshit, here or elsewhere, do the research themselves before forming an opinion. If you just believe me or anyone else below, that's your mistake. This election is critical and we all ought to spend the time to get educated on the issues. It's called citizenship and we need to take it seriously. We get the leaders we deserve.

 

Ok, so Palin in Dan Quail in a skirt and McCain is Bush? Thanks for the insight. Was this gathered on an episode of the Real World or Americas best dance crew?

[mancunian]

Its quite funny reading these politcial posts, from an objective point there isn't a great deal of difference between McCain and Obama. One is a moderate centre-right politician, the other moderate-centre left. I find it quite amusing though to hear Obama labelled a socialist based on his approach to universal health care, from a European perspectibe he aint anywhere near left wing enough to be considered a socialist.

[madlithuanian]

Is there a clear cut candidate Europe is hoping for? I would imagine it's Obama...but I'm not certain.

 

 

 

Its quite funny reading these politcial posts, from an objective point there isn't a great deal of difference between McCain and Obama. One is a moderate centre-right politician, the other moderate-centre left. I find it quite amusing though to hear Obama labelled a socialist based on his approach to universal health care, from a European perspectibe he aint anywhere near left wing enough to be considered a socialist.

[mancunian]

From the reception he got when he was in Europe I'd say that Obama is well liked over here. Leaning to the left politically then he'd be my choice over McCain.

[DrunkBomber]

From the reception he got when he was in Europe I'd say that Obama is well liked over here. Leaning to the left politically then he'd be my choice over McCain.

Ya I would imagine. He went in front of a German audience and bashed America. Stated that the US has violated the Geneva Convention and wouldnt go and visit the troops. I can see why they would like him.

[Connorbear]

Ya I would imagine. He went in front of a German audience and bashed America. Stated that the US has violated the Geneva Convention and wouldnt go and visit the troops. I can see why they would like him.

Please stop. If you don't like the guys politics that's fine but there is no need to stretch the truth when you know otherwise. Are you going to say next that he hates America????

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

Please stop. If you don't like the guys politics that's fine but there is no need to stretch the truth when you know otherwise. Are you going to say next that he hates America????

 

Peace

Stop what? Im responding to something that was posted. I also didnt stretch the truth. In his speech he talked about all the things that are wrong with America and why everything needs to change. He then continued to bring up us torturing prisoners which is obviously a violation of the Geneva Convention to another countries listeners. He also chose NOT to visit the troops because he said it was an inappropriate way to spend tax payer money.

 

Since it was brought up I responded to it, I have a problem with a candidate for President pointing out all of our flaws to ANOTHER country and talking about things like torturing prisoners. Those arent things you say to another country. I also feel youre way out of line here. YOU dont agree with MY politics so all of a sudden Im the bad guy. None of what I said was false as you can see I explained all of it. So if you have any issues with any posts in this thread it should be the first one which was the closest thing to "stretching the truth" and spam. Just because you disagree with me and agree with everyone else doesnt mean Im doing anything wrong, so dont tell only me to stop and not say anything to anyone else.

[Connorbear]

Stop what? Im responding to something that was posted. I also didnt stretch the truth. In his speech he talked about all the things that are wrong with America and why everything needs to change. He then continued to bring up us torturing prisoners which is obviously a violation of the Geneva Convention to another countries listeners. He also chose NOT to visit the troops because he said it was an inappropriate way to spend tax payer money.

 

Since it was brought up I responded to it, I have a problem with a candidate for President pointing out all of our flaws to ANOTHER country and talking about things like torturing prisoners. Those arent things you say to another country. I also feel youre way out of line here. YOU dont agree with MY politics so all of a sudden Im the bad guy. None of what I said was false as you can see I explained all of it. So if you have any issues with any posts in this thread it should be the first one which was the closest thing to "stretching the truth" and spam. Just because you disagree with me and agree with everyone else doesnt mean Im doing anything wrong, so dont tell only me to stop and not say anything to anyone else.

I didn't tell you to stop. I asked you to please stop. There is a difference. I did this because you know and I know that you omitted details when you stated he refused to visit the troops. He declined to visit the troops 1 time as opposed to the multiple times that he did visit them. Just like when someone slams McCain for voting against Veterans benefits. They are omitting the fact that he is usually voting against them because they normally attached to pork.

 

That's fine if you think I am way out of line. I never called you a bad guy. I respect you but I do not respect the fact that you omitted certain facts in you argument. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my response.

 

BTW - I should have stayed out of the discussion like I said I would earlier. I am done with this post.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

I didn't tell you to stop. I asked you to please stop. There is a difference. I did this because you know and I know that you omitted details when you stated he refused to visit the troops. He declined to visit the troops 1 time as opposed to the multiple times that he did visit them. Just like when someone slams McCain for voting against Veterans benefits. They are omitting the fact that he is usually voting against them because they normally attached to pork.

 

That's fine if you think I am way out of line. I never called you a bad guy. I respect you but I do not respect the fact that you omitted certain facts in you argument.

 

Peace

Ok, I misunderstood your intentions, I just thought I was being ganged up on. Ill elaborate more and generalize less.

[Connorbear]

Ok, I misunderstood your intentions, I just thought I was being ganged up on. Ill elaborate more and generalize less.

Understood. No issues.

 

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Stop what? Im responding to something that was posted. I also didnt stretch the truth. In his speech he talked about all the things that are wrong with America and why everything needs to change. He then continued to bring up us torturing prisoners which is obviously a violation of the Geneva Convention to another countries listeners. He also chose NOT to visit the troops because he said it was an inappropriate way to spend tax payer money.

 

Since it was brought up I responded to it, I have a problem with a candidate for President pointing out all of our flaws to ANOTHER country and talking about things like torturing prisoners. Those arent things you say to another country. I also feel youre way out of line here. YOU dont agree with MY politics so all of a sudden Im the bad guy. None of what I said was false as you can see I explained all of it. So if you have any issues with any posts in this thread it should be the first one which was the closest thing to "stretching the truth" and spam. Just because you disagree with me and agree with everyone else doesnt mean Im doing anything wrong, so dont tell only me to stop and not say anything to anyone else.

 

Since this seems to be the forum to be in, count me in. I live for political debate while loving the Bears. First, I have to say that the original poster and I will agree almost 100% on what he wrote. I too am more what is called a Moderate, however I always find that saying that then following up on my beliefs (and when talking to friends) I get labeled as Liberal. By the way, I am from Alaska where it is thick with Republicans....plenty of blind ones in fact. But more on that at another time.

 

Now to talk about the above quoted remark. I find it utterly amusing that you are offended by Obama allegedly talking down about the US while in Europe, which he did not. And, since you are concerned about him "airing our dirty laundry" then maybe we should stop dirtying our laundry. Consider this, we invade a soverign nation in Iraq, depose (and eventually hang) their leader and impose upon them our form of Government. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Russia decides to go into Georgia, help two individual cities within Georgia gain reaffiliation to the Russian government and in the process lays waste to the central part of Georgia. In response, Bush and Rice wave their collective fingers and beside saying that that's not nice, expect the Russians to simply stop what they are doing and obey us or else.... So it is ok for us to do it but noone else? As expected President Medvedev and PM Putin told the US to butt out and continued on with their operation. The Russians cited the above given example for how the US is rife with practicing double standards. And we don't have a leg to stand on.

 

I hear too often that the solution for International opposition (Iraq, Iran, China, N Korea, Russia...and others) is to "screw 'em all" blow it all up and start over. Most times I ignore the comments as I figure it is a simpleton's way to deal with the stress invoked. But we, as Americans, need to realize we are not the only ones on the planet. If we continue on the path we are on we will become isolated and cut off. The Department of Defense needs to stop becoming the Department of Offense and return all military men and women within the borders and confines of US Territories and Allied countries. If you want to fight a war in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan then ask your congressperson to re-invoke the draft and volunteer yourself and your family to go and fight.

 

Until then, I think Obama is on the right track and has my vote. Besides that, he likes the White Sox.

 

[madlithuanian]

Good points Grizzz... I'd be curious to hear your take on the VP candidate since she's in your neck of the woods.

 

I'm personally not in the norm...as I am a moderate Libertarian. But I don't like Barr, so I'm leaning towards Obama.

 

I can forgive him for being a Sox fan (as I side with the Cubs) But since we're all Bears fans, I harbor no ill will!

 

 

 

 

Since this seems to be the forum to be in, count me in. I live for political debate while loving the Bears. First, I have to say that the original poster and I will agree almost 100% on what he wrote. I too am more what is called a Moderate, however I always find that saying that then following up on my beliefs (and when talking to friends) I get labeled as Liberal. By the way, I am from Alaska where it is thick with Republicans....plenty of blind ones in fact. But more on that at another time.

 

Now to talk about the above quoted remark. I find it utterly amusing that you are offended by Obama allegedly talking down about the US while in Europe, which he did not. And, since you are concerned about him "airing our dirty laundry" then maybe we should stop dirtying our laundry. Consider this, we invade a soverign nation in Iraq, depose (and eventually hang) their leader and impose upon them our form of Government. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Russia decides to go into Georgia, help two individual cities within Georgia gain reaffiliation to the Russian government and in the process lays waste to the central part of Georgia. In response, Bush and Rice wave their collective fingers and beside saying that that's not nice, expect the Russians to simply stop what they are doing and obey us or else.... So it is ok for us to do it but noone else? As expected President Medvedev and PM Putin told the US to butt out and continued on with their operation. The Russians cited the above given example for how the US is rife with practicing double standards. And we don't have a leg to stand on.

 

I hear too often that the solution for International opposition (Iraq, Iran, China, N Korea, Russia...and others) is to "screw 'em all" blow it all up and start over. Most times I ignore the comments as I figure it is a simpleton's way to deal with the stress invoked. But we, as Americans, need to realize we are not the only ones on the planet. If we continue on the path we are on we will become isolated and cut off. The Department of Defense needs to stop becoming the Department of Offense and return all military men and women within the borders and confines of US Territories and Allied countries. If you want to fight a war in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan then ask your congressperson to re-invoke the draft and volunteer yourself and your family to go and fight.

 

Until then, I think Obama is on the right track and has my vote. Besides that, he likes the White Sox.

 

[DrunkBomber]

Since this seems to be the forum to be in, count me in. I live for political debate while loving the Bears. First, I have to say that the original poster and I will agree almost 100% on what he wrote. I too am more what is called a Moderate, however I always find that saying that then following up on my beliefs (and when talking to friends) I get labeled as Liberal. By the way, I am from Alaska where it is thick with Republicans....plenty of blind ones in fact. But more on that at another time.

 

Now to talk about the above quoted remark. I find it utterly amusing that you are offended by Obama allegedly talking down about the US while in Europe, which he did not. And, since you are concerned about him "airing our dirty laundry" then maybe we should stop dirtying our laundry. Consider this, we invade a soverign nation in Iraq, depose (and eventually hang) their leader and impose upon them our form of Government. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Russia decides to go into Georgia, help two individual cities within Georgia gain reaffiliation to the Russian government and in the process lays waste to the central part of Georgia. In response, Bush and Rice wave their collective fingers and beside saying that that's not nice, expect the Russians to simply stop what they are doing and obey us or else.... So it is ok for us to do it but noone else? As expected President Medvedev and PM Putin told the US to butt out and continued on with their operation. The Russians cited the above given example for how the US is rife with practicing double standards. And we don't have a leg to stand on.

 

I hear too often that the solution for International opposition (Iraq, Iran, China, N Korea, Russia...and others) is to "screw 'em all" blow it all up and start over. Most times I ignore the comments as I figure it is a simpleton's way to deal with the stress invoked. But we, as Americans, need to realize we are not the only ones on the planet. If we continue on the path we are on we will become isolated and cut off. The Department of Defense needs to stop becoming the Department of Offense and return all military men and women within the borders and confines of US Territories and Allied countries. If you want to fight a war in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan then ask your congressperson to re-invoke the draft and volunteer yourself and your family to go and fight.

 

Until then, I think Obama is on the right track and has my vote. Besides that, he likes the White Sox.

 

Your problem sounds like you are assuming possibly I side with the war or other things Bush has done which I dont. Under no circumstance do I think its appropriate for someone running for president to go into other countries and "air our dirty laundry" That might be utterly amusing to you but Im proud of my country and dont need Obama going around the world and telling other countries what he hates about us.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Your problem sounds like you are assuming possibly I side with the war or other things Bush has done which I dont. Under no circumstance do I think its appropriate for someone running for president to go into other countries and "air our dirty laundry" That might be utterly amusing to you but Im proud of my country and dont need Obama going around the world and telling other countries what he hates about us.

 

The problem appears you don't get my point. The dirty laundry is already aired IE: war in Iraq, illegal interrogation tactics, harboring ill will for countries that don't need it...etc, etc, etc.

 

If there is a specific comment, or even action you can cite, that Obama "hates his country" then please tell me what it is. If he simply went to Germany and maybe suggested that he wanted to reverse the way International relations are handled then sorry, that is not hating your country. That is promoting your country and abilty to co-habitate this here Earth of ours.

 

BEARS RULE!!!!

[DrunkBomber]

The problem appears you don't get my point. The dirty laundry is already aired IE: war in Iraq, illegal interrogation tactics, harboring ill will for countries that don't need it...etc, etc, etc.

 

If there is a specific comment, or even action you can cite, that Obama "hates his country" then please tell me what it is. If he simply went to Germany and maybe suggested that he wanted to reverse the way International relations are handled then sorry, that is not hating your country. That is promoting your country and abilty to co-habitate this here Earth of ours.

 

BEARS RULE!!!!

It doesnt matter if its already suspected. Its like if someone in your family does something youre not proud of or disagree with. Would you go around broadcasting it? You might, I wouldnt. Republicans and Democrats might disagree on things but were all Americans and that stuff should be kept in house, the end

[Alaskan Grizzly]

It doesnt matter if its already suspected. Its like if someone in your family does something youre not proud of or disagree with. Would you go around broadcasting it? You might, I wouldnt. Republicans and Democrats might disagree on things but were all Americans and that stuff should be kept in house, the end

 

Suspected? I was hoping for factual evidence for you to make your claim about him bad mouthing his own country, but since you don't and apparently he didn't then I agree, this discussion is over. Unless you can find something that is actual.

 

Mad Lith....When I get a chance I will give you a quick rundown on my take of Palin. I haven't had a chance to sit and write it all out just yet. Plenty of material out there still to be learned on the National stage.

 

And just so you know, a fan of her's I am not. McCain is allright but not enough for me to vote the complete ticket. More to come....

[CrackerDog]

If there is a specific comment, or even action you can cite, that Obama "hates his country" then please tell me what it is. If he simply went to Germany and maybe suggested that he wanted to reverse the way International relations are handled then sorry, that is not hating your country. That is promoting your country and abilty to co-habitate this here Earth of ours.

 

Republicans are

. They want to fight this election based on issues like gay marriage and abortion. I so hope the country sees through it this time. While those may be issues that are important to some, if you're voting against the better good of the country because you don't like gays, or black people, or whatever, you're a stupid bastard. Period. The heartland of this country has been destroyed by Republicanomics. The war, even if you believe it was the right thing to do in the first place, was run as poorly as it could've been and continues to put our men and women in harm's way every day when Democrats had plans 5 years ago to move to a support mode. Has the "surge" worked? Some say yes but others, looking at the underlying reasons for the surge in the first place, disagree. And now Bush and his cronies have come around, they'll tell you, and are planning a withdrawal along the lines proposed by Obama all along. Who would you rather vote for, the guy who was right, ABOUT EVERYTHING, for years, or the guy who comes along in an election cycle and adopts his plans and claims they're his own.

 

All this talk about increased taxes is more bullshit. The facts don't support the Republicans. Obama's plan puts more tax relief into the hands of the middle class than does McCain's. That's a FACT. All along we've been lining the pockets of the wealthy and they've been pocketing it. We're the chumps. Our economy is deeper in the toilet because the plan Bush put in place was never meant to improve things. It was a gift to his biggest supporters. Anyone with half a brain understands you put the money in the hands of those most likely to spend it and the economy will pick up.

 

And don't even get me started on gas prices. Oh sure, it just so happens we put two Texas oil men in the Whitehouse and the price of gasoline triples. How stupid do they think we are? Bush talked about "getting the Saudi's on the phone as president and going to bat for the citizens of the country, bringing oil prices down" during the debates back in 2000. I wonder if anyone remembers that. He also talked about how he was dead set against nation building and only using our troops for their intended purpose. I guess he just failed to tell us they were intended for target practice in Iraq, or being the policemen of the world. Please.... He's failed and McCain is Bush Jr.

 

McSame's VP candidate... oh my. She's a real winner too. My goodness. All these self righteous fools believing in abstinence only programs just got a lesson. But do they choose to learn from it? I'll tell you one thing for god damn certain, if that were Obama's daughter, Fox News and the Repug noise machine would be making it the ONLY issue of the campaign. As it is, they're saying to ignore the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Hell, I agree. But then, I've always held myself and my party to a higher standard. These hypocrites play whatever side of the issue, on every issue, they think best helps them get elected. It'll be interesting to see if the Enquirer is right and Palin had an affair with her husband's business partner. They were right about Edwards...

 

I'll sum this up for everyone: This country isn't supposed to be about rewarding failure and punishing innovative thought and new ideas. If you ask me to vote for your 72 year old 90% Bush candidate, that's exactly what you're asking me to vote for. Sorry, I'm smarter than that and I damn well hope this country is as well.

[madlithuanian]

Tanks! I'm curious to hear your take... I eagerly await the debates so that all the candidates can be put in a place of uncomfort and be asked hard questions instead of just "rah-rah" conventions...

 

 

 

Mad Lith....When I get a chance I will give you a quick rundown on my take of Palin. I haven't had a chance to sit and write it all out just yet. Plenty of material out there still to be learned on the National stage.

[DrunkBomber]

The only people receiving a tax break are people who make between 85,000-100,000

 

Severely raising capitol gains tax

 

Economic conservatives have a special love for cutting capital gains taxes. Not only do they feel it is one of the most destructive taxes that exists, but it was the 1978 capital gains tax cut—along with Proposition 13 the same year in California—that really launched the supply-side tax revolution. Now Barack Obama says he wants to perhaps nearly double the capital gains tax rate. Here is what he told CNBC's Maria Bartiromo last week (boldface mine):

 

Well, you know, I haven't given a firm number. Here's my belief, that we can't go back to some of the, you know, confiscatory rates that existed in the past that distorted sound economics. And I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton, which was 28 percent. I would—and my guess would be it would be significantly lower than that. I think that we can have a capital gains rate that is higher than 15 percent. If it—and if it, you know—when I talk to people like Warren Buffett or others and I ask them, you know, what's—how much of a difference is it going to be if it's 20 or 25 percent, they say, look, if it's within that range, then it's not going to distort, I think, economic decision making.

 

My take: Obama got it wrong. The capital gains rate during the Clinton administration fell from 28 percent at the beginning to 20 percent with the signing of the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 in August of that year. Interestingly, the economy managed only two years of growth of 4 percent or more in the decade previous to the 1997 cap gains cut—but notched three straight years of such growth in 1997, 1998, and 1999.

 

Obama to push for higher Social Security tax

 

WASHINGTON - Democrat Barack Obama said Sunday that if elected he will push to increase the amount of income that is taxed to provide monthly Social Security benefits.

 

Obama and other Democratic presidential candidates previously have signaled support for this idea.

 

But during an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Obama said subjecting more of a person's income to the payroll tax is the option he would push for if elected president.

[DrunkBomber]

Republicans are

. They want to fight this election based on issues like gay marriage and abortion. I so hope the country sees through it this time. While those may be issues that are important to some, if you're voting against the better good of the country because you don't like gays, or black people, or whatever, you're a stupid bastard. Period. The heartland of this country has been destroyed by Republicanomics. The war, even if you believe it was the right thing to do in the first place, was run as poorly as it could've been and continues to put our men and women in harm's way every day when Democrats had plans 5 years ago to move to a support mode. Has the "surge" worked? Some say yes but others, looking at the underlying reasons for the surge in the first place, disagree. And now Bush and his cronies have come around, they'll tell you, and are planning a withdrawal along the lines proposed by Obama all along. Who would you rather vote for, the guy who was right, ABOUT EVERYTHING, for years, or the guy who comes along in an election cycle and adopts his plans and claims they're his own.

 

All this talk about increased taxes is more bullshit. The facts don't support the Republicans. Obama's plan puts more tax relief into the hands of the middle class than does McCain's. That's a FACT. All along we've been lining the pockets of the wealthy and they've been pocketing it. We're the chumps. Our economy is deeper in the toilet because the plan Bush put in place was never meant to improve things. It was a gift to his biggest supporters. Anyone with half a brain understands you put the money in the hands of those most likely to spend it and the economy will pick up.

 

And don't even get me started on gas prices. Oh sure, it just so happens we put two Texas oil men in the Whitehouse and the price of gasoline triples. How stupid do they think we are? Bush talked about "getting the Saudi's on the phone as president and going to bat for the citizens of the country, bringing oil prices down" during the debates back in 2000. I wonder if anyone remembers that. He also talked about how he was dead set against nation building and only using our troops for their intended purpose. I guess he just failed to tell us they were intended for target practice in Iraq, or being the policemen of the world. Please.... He's failed and McCain is Bush Jr.

 

McSame's VP candidate... oh my. She's a real winner too. My goodness. All these self righteous fools believing in abstinence only programs just got a lesson. But do they choose to learn from it? I'll tell you one thing for god damn certain, if that were Obama's daughter, Fox News and the Repug noise machine would be making it the ONLY issue of the campaign. As it is, they're saying to ignore the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Hell, I agree. But then, I've always held myself and my party to a higher standard. These hypocrites play whatever side of the issue, on every issue, they think best helps them get elected. It'll be interesting to see if the Enquirer is right and Palin had an affair with her husband's business partner. They were right about Edwards...

 

I'll sum this up for everyone: This country isn't supposed to be about rewarding failure and punishing innovative thought and new ideas. If you ask me to vote for your 72 year old 90% Bush candidate, that's exactly what you're asking me to vote for. Sorry, I'm smarter than that and I damn well hope this country is as well.

I would recommend not using your post as a way to attack people of other political affiliations than you. Cut the condescending shit out. Your posts arent even worth a response, what are you going to tell me next, that 9/11 was an inside job?

 

If your post continue to be used as insults instead of discussion this thread will be closed.