Politics

[CrackerDog]

I would recommend not using your post as a way to attack people of other political affiliations than you. Cut the condescending shit out. Your posts arent even worth a response, what are you going to tell me next, that 9/11 was an inside job?

 

If your post continue to be used as insults instead of discussion this thread will be closed.

 

When you can't respond to the points I've made I guess this is the answer. Threats. Do what you want but I can tell you I've gotten a lot of people here telling me privately that they agree with me and loved my post.

 

And no, 9/11 wasn't an inside job and I find it insulting that you'd go there just because I don't agree with you politically. There are millions of Democrats out there who are FINE AMERICANS despite what your pack of liars says about them on Fox News. I responded in kind to the tripe that was being fired off in posts above me and you never once threatened them. Are you going to ban me now?

 

Face it, your Republican band of misfits has had control over our entire government for nearly 8 years. And they've hosed EVERYTHING. If you can't deal with that it isn't my problem. I'm not going just bend to your will because you threaten me with the thread being closed. This is a thread for off topic discussion. So, do whatever you like. I think it's cowardly if you shut this thread down just because somebody gave back to the Republicans what they've so desperately had coming for YEARS.

 

As I said to start this off: Get out of the way and let someone who wants to run government do the hard work. You've proven inadequate.

[DrunkBomber]

When you can't respond to the points I've made I guess this is the answer. Threats. Do what you want but I can tell you I've gotten a lot of people here telling me privately that they agree with me and loved my post.

 

And no, 9/11 wasn't an inside job and I find it insulting that you'd go there just because I don't agree with you politically. There are millions of Democrats out there who are FINE AMERICANS despite what your pack of liars says about them on Fox News. I responded in kind to the tripe that was being fired off in posts above me and you never once threatened them. Are you going to ban me now?

 

Face it, your Republican band of misfits has had control over our entire government for nearly 8 years. And they've hosed EVERYTHING. If you can't deal with that it isn't my problem. I'm not going just bend to your will because you threaten me with the thread being closed. This is a thread for off topic discussion. So, do whatever you like. I think it's cowardly if you shut this thread down just because somebody gave back to the Republicans what they've so desperately had coming for YEARS.

 

As I said to start this off: Get out of the way and let someone who wants to run government do the hard work. You've proven inadequate.

Theres a difference between having a discussion and the route youre going. I dont have the time to look for links or quotes for every little issue. When I get home from work I graze over the site and make a few posts. I realize Im not going to change anyones views politically so I just post a few of my opinions and thats it. Whats the point of me fact checking for you? If I find the transcript of Obamas speech in Germany and post it and point out where I feel aired our countries dirty laundry what will it accomplish? Theres no way youre going to read it and say "Maybe hes right, I see his point" It will be more like, "Thats not what he meant, youre an idiot" and thats my problem with the snarkiness. Its hard to moderate a thread like this on a message board when there are no ground rules or code of conduct so I was basically asking you to take it down a notch. Its easy to get the same point across without calling people that disagree with you stupid or other names. I go through the same stuff on the Sox board and its a disaster a lot of the time simply because debating on a message board is relatively impossible when it reaches this level.

 

Honestly, whats really the point of having this thread if all it thats going on is people with other views calling each other idiots. If you want to have a civil conversation than fine, but if you want to just shit on anyone who thinks something different than you than have a ball posting jibberish and having people send you PMs telling you how awesome you are, but whats really the point. SO I know Im "cowardly, trying to impose my will, threatening you, involved in some type of pack of liars, desperate and inadequate" but if you want to try and have a civil conversation take it down a notch or you can just keep preaching to all your fans here. Just so you know also, I dont like Bush, the war or many other things youve generalized me for which maybe you could have picked up on if you had any interest in doing anything but bashing everything.

[madlithuanian]

As much as I find it interesting...

 

Maybe the site should just outright ban political discussion. I personally find it intruiging and amusing at the same time. However, some seem to take to it with almost religious fervor... Thus resulting in hurt feelings, etc...

 

I would say, why not be political about being political and put it to a vote? Let the posters decide if political talk on a Bears-talk web-site is fair game...

 

 

 

Theres a difference between having a discussion and the route youre going. I dont have the time to look for links or quotes for every little issue. When I get home from work I graze over the site and make a few posts. I realize Im not going to change anyones views politically so I just post a few of my opinions and thats it. Whats the point of me fact checking for you? If I find the transcript of Obamas speech in Germany and post it and point out where I feel aired our countries dirty laundry what will it accomplish? Theres no way youre going to read it and say "Maybe hes right, I see his point" It will be more like, "Thats not what he meant, youre an idiot" and thats my problem with the snarkiness. Its hard to moderate a thread like this on a message board when there are no ground rules or code of conduct so I was basically asking you to take it down a notch. Its easy to get the same point across without calling people that disagree with you stupid or other names. I go through the same stuff on the Sox board and its a disaster a lot of the time simply because debating on a message board is relatively impossible when it reaches this level.

 

Honestly, whats really the point of having this thread if all it thats going on is people with other views calling each other idiots. If you want to have a civil conversation than fine, but if you want to just shit on anyone who thinks something different than you than have a ball posting jibberish and having people send you PMs telling you how awesome you are, but whats really the point. SO I know Im "cowardly, trying to impose my will, threatening you, involved in some type of pack of liars, desperate and inadequate" but if you want to try and have a civil conversation take it down a notch or you can just keep preaching to all your fans here. Just so you know also, I dont like Bush, the war or many other things youve generalized me for which maybe you could have picked up on if you had any interest in doing anything but bashing everything.

[CrackerDog]

Just so you know also, I dont like Bush, the war or many other things youve generalized me for which maybe you could have picked up on if you had any interest in doing anything but bashing everything.

 

Boy, you're very full of yourself. Here are a few of your statements from this thread.

 

"I dont vote based on MTV."

 

"the libs are backing a socialist"

 

"isnt a communist country"

 

All of which are inflammatory. Quit being a damn hypocrite and crying foul when you've used the same tactics. Yeah, so I used the word stupid in reference to bigots and racists. I won't apologize for that. And there are a lot of people in this country who won't vote for him for those reasons.

 

A few other gems which are either complete lies or half truths...

 

"He is raising everyones taxes"

 

False. I already posted a link to refute this.

 

"give health care to people who dont want to work"

 

So there are 40 million lazy people in this country.

 

"Selling a house"

 

Learn tax code. There are exclusions for this.

 

"he will ultimately create two income levels, rich and poor"

 

The disparity between rich and poor has grown to the largest point in modern American history.

 

"He went in front of a German audience and bashed America. Stated that the US has violated the Geneva Convention and wouldn’t go and visit the troops."

 

He went there to extend an olive branch to work immediately toward restoring our leadership credentials in the world. He stood there and told them the truth, which they already damn well knew. If the truth hurts, too god damn bad. And this Administration has absolutely violated the Geneva Convention and I hope Cheney and Bush are held accountable someday.

 

He's visited the troops dozens and dozens of times. He's explained the one incident you and your Fox pals keep bringing up to my satisfaction. Next you'll be telling me how he doesn't love this country and his wife is a devout racist. Karl Rove is on your side so I expect nothing but slime from that side of the polical spectrum these days. Lord knows it's been effective in brain washing 50% of the population into voting against their own interests.

 

My original post was a simple statement of anger over what you and people like you have brought on this country. Call it a backlash or simply understand that we're fed up. I see the same tactics being used now to elect yet another Republican so we can have another 4 years of doing nothing. I seriously feel we're on the brink of catastrophe in so many areas we simply can't afford to let you and people like you have your way again. I hope that few dollars Bush put in your pocket was worth it all. In my mind, it's blood money. And, as I said, it was all borrowed. So you got a loan. And don't tell me about all the welfare mothers out there bleeding this country dry. How about the welfare Halliburton got with BILLIONS in no bid contracts, over and over again. Who was it that worked for them? Oh yeah, Cheney. I'm certain that was just another of those coincidences.

 

All of these inconvenient truths are in your face now. And there are more to come. We need action now via energized leadership. I just wish all of these "I always vote Republican because that's what my daddy did" types would take a serious look at the party you've got these days. It isn't the Jack Kemp’s and Ronald Reagan’s out there anymore gang. Small government has become no government, no oversight, no accountability. The joining of religion into the electoral process has created a powerful subgroup of intolerant bigots. Reagan once talked about a trillion dollar deficit being made up of dollar bills that would reach the moon a few times. Now we've spent, by some estimates, $2 trillion just on Iraq. But we can't defeat poverty or insure Americans as well as 47 other countries in the world do. It's a crime!

 

I won't argue with anyone who says taxes are too high but I also demand that we get something for our money. I live in an area with higher real estate taxes but we have a great school district. Your party can snarkily call it the death tax but the estate tax has a legitimate place in our society. If you don't want to give it to the government, establish charitable organizations that benefit future generations! Bill Gates is doing it! The benefactors of the great museums, zoos and public parks were all robber barons! There isn't anything wrong with the wealthy but there is certainly something wrong with a system that allows for silver spoons to be passed on for generations. There's your aristocracy! There's your "rich and poor" class system. But you speak out of both sides without even noticing the conflict.

 

At the end of the day, I can't say it any more clearly... The other guys may not be perfect but they deserve a chance. Please, pretty please with sugar on top... Get the hell out of the way.

[DrunkBomber]

Boy, you're very full of yourself. Here are a few of your statements from this thread.

 

"I dont vote based on MTV."

 

"the libs are backing a socialist"

 

"isnt a communist country"

 

All of which are inflammatory. Quit being a damn hypocrite and crying foul when you've used the same tactics. Yeah, so I used the word stupid in reference to bigots and racists. I won't apologize for that. And there are a lot of people in this country who won't vote for him for those reasons.

 

A few other gems which are either complete lies or half truths...

 

"He is raising everyones taxes"

 

False. I already posted a link to refute this.

 

"give health care to people who dont want to work"

 

So there are 40 million lazy people in this country.

 

"Selling a house"

 

Learn tax code. There are exclusions for this.

 

"he will ultimately create two income levels, rich and poor"

 

The disparity between rich and poor has grown to the largest point in modern American history.

 

"He went in front of a German audience and bashed America. Stated that the US has violated the Geneva Convention and wouldn’t go and visit the troops."

 

He went there to extend an olive branch to work immediately toward restoring our leadership credentials in the world. He stood there and told them the truth, which they already damn well knew. If the truth hurts, too god damn bad. And this Administration has absolutely violated the Geneva Convention and I hope Cheney and Bush are held accountable someday.

 

He's visited the troops dozens and dozens of times. He's explained the one incident you and your Fox pals keep bringing up to my satisfaction. Next you'll be telling me how he doesn't love this country and his wife is a devout racist. Karl Rove is on your side so I expect nothing but slime from that side of the polical spectrum these days. Lord knows it's been effective in brain washing 50% of the population into voting against their own interests.

 

My original post was a simple statement of anger over what you and people like you have brought on this country. Call it a backlash or simply understand that we're fed up. I see the same tactics being used now to elect yet another Republican so we can have another 4 years of doing nothing. I seriously feel we're on the brink of catastrophe in so many areas we simply can't afford to let you and people like you have your way again. I hope that few dollars Bush put in your pocket was worth it all. In my mind, it's blood money. And, as I said, it was all borrowed. So you got a loan. And don't tell me about all the welfare mothers out there bleeding this country dry. How about the welfare Halliburton got with BILLIONS in no bid contracts, over and over again. Who was it that worked for them? Oh yeah, Cheney. I'm certain that was just another of those coincidences.

 

All of these inconvenient truths are in your face now. And there are more to come. We need action now via energized leadership. I just wish all of these "I always vote Republican because that's what my daddy did" types would take a serious look at the party you've got these days. It isn't the Jack Kemp’s and Ronald Reagan’s out there anymore gang. Small government has become no government, no oversight, no accountability. The joining of religion into the electoral process has created a powerful subgroup of intolerant bigots. Reagan once talked about a trillion dollar deficit being made up of dollar bills that would reach the moon a few times. Now we've spent, by some estimates, $2 trillion just on Iraq. But we can't defeat poverty or insure Americans as well as 47 other countries in the world do. It's a crime!

 

I won't argue with anyone who says taxes are too high but I also demand that we get something for our money. I live in an area with higher real estate taxes but we have a great school district. Your party can snarkily call it the death tax but the estate tax has a legitimate place in our society. If you don't want to give it to the government, establish charitable organizations that benefit future generations! Bill Gates is doing it! The benefactors of the great museums, zoos and public parks were all robber barons! There isn't anything wrong with the wealthy but there is certainly something wrong with a system that allows for silver spoons to be passed on for generations. There's your aristocracy! There's your "rich and poor" class system. But you speak out of both sides without even noticing the conflict.

 

At the end of the day, I can't say it any more clearly... The other guys may not be perfect but they deserve a chance. Please, pretty please with sugar on top... Get the hell out of the way.

As I explained before, I know Im not going to change anyones opinion so the only real point would be for friendly debate. Just as you think you have me backed into a corner about all the quotes you have bolded from me, I feel I could either explain why I feel that way or find some sort of article online validating it but I know it wont make a difference to you. To give you an example , the quote about health care, you took the standard message board approach and generalized what I said to mean all 40 million people that dont have health care dont want to work. Now, considering I dont have health care, I know thats not true and Im sure you know thats not what I meant too. But in message board fashion you tried to take that quote and bring it to the farthest extreme possible to try and discredit me. What that quote means, is that me being against social programs to begin with, I think giving everyone health care could be another incentive for someone who doesnt work to have to not get a job. If people can get housing, food and health care without working, why would they work? Thats my point. I actually wouldnt be AS opposed to health care if it was only given to people who pay something, anything into taxes. However, instead of discussing that, I get "because you said its giving health care to people that dont want to work, that means I think 40 million people dont want to work." Its just too time consuming to try and go through every point and explain why I feel that way when I know you are going to overlook it and give me a snarky comment back.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

As I explained before, I know Im not going to change anyones opinion so the only real point would be for friendly debate. Just as you think you have me backed into a corner about all the quotes you have bolded from me, I feel I could either explain why I feel that way or find some sort of article online validating it but I know it wont make a difference to you. To give you an example , the quote about health care, you took the standard message board approach and generalized what I said to mean all 40 million people that dont have health care dont want to work. Now, considering I dont have health care, I know thats not true and Im sure you know thats not what I meant too. But in message board fashion you tried to take that quote and bring it to the farthest extreme possible to try and discredit me. What that quote means, is that me being against social programs to begin with, I think giving everyone health care could be another incentive for someone who doesnt work to have to not get a job. If people can get housing, food and health care without working, why would they work? Thats my point. I actually wouldnt be AS opposed to health care if it was only given to people who pay something, anything into taxes. However, instead of discussing that, I get "because you said its giving health care to people that dont want to work, that means I think 40 million people dont want to work." Its just too time consuming to try and go through every point and explain why I feel that way when I know you are going to overlook it and give me a snarky comment back.

 

My turn. I decided since it appears you think that what is out there is taken out of context I would instead use your own words to highlight a confoundment, hence the bolded words. First, not many people really want nothing for something. I and you would be very hard pressed to name a few people that would really want to accept housing, food and health care for nothing. If I may illustrate something for you. The Republicans are attempting to grasp hold of the traditional idealogue in order to win the support of those disenfranchised. They even went as far as reaching...emphasis on reach, for Sarah Palin. The Governor of the State I live in. Now, if you were to take two people and ask them what their definition of a traditional lifestyle was the first person, perhaps somebody from the Midwest, would tell you that they could live in their house without the doors locked, everyone knows everyone and Americana is on every corner. Now if you were to ask the second person, an Alaskan Native perhaps, what they thought were some keys to traditional they might mention some of these things but they might also mention that theirs is a community that helps one another. Most times and in tradition, the men go out and kill a whale. They in turn bring in the whale for several of the townspeople to help butcher. Each person takes their share and some deliver extra to those that can't participate, the invalid or elderly. But guess what some of these people are doing? They might be babysitting the small children while the rest of the grownups are out doing the things mentioned above. So, who is doing the most work and who should get the lions share of the "reward"? This is called community, a root word being "commune" or dare I say, Communist. God forbid. That is not a true traditional lifestyle that most in the Midwest would recognize.

 

Now about the health care to those that only pay the taxes. Never mind the do nothings that will have to fend for themselves....but what about lets say we have ten adults that each pay their equal share into the healh care and pay their taxes? Of those 10, what if one of them has an elderly and dependent father and mother living with them? Do they (Mom and Dad) get the share of that one for health care or to heck with them? What about perhaps another one of the ten that has 5 kids in their home? And that original one is the only one that works? Let's say one of those 5 kids has special needs and you know over time that person is going to require more and more health care benefits than the rest of the family? And let's just say another one of the 5 kids has a child before they are 18? You know that is going to cost more. How is that distributed? Now we go to one or two more of the original 10. They are single and young and of strong health...never see a doctor except for the occasional check up. Do they still get their share? Do they get as much (or more) as the family of 6 (1 and 5 kids) or the 1 with two elderly parents? How do you distribute that?

 

I think that now that the "glitz and glamour" of the Conventions are over, we all need to listen to what the candidates, primarily the Presidential ones, have to say about fixing the problems we are facing today; gas prices, unemployment, inflation and the crashing housing market. How about the International stage of restoring our credibility and ceasing these pointless and careless wars? We have to ask ourselves when the questions are asked, who is going to have the best answer and solution? So far Obama has been talking issues....while the McCain and Palin followers continue to talk about how a great speaker she is...or is it reader?

 

GO BEARS!!!!! BEAT THE COLTS!!!!!

 

[CrackerDog]

From elsewhere...

 

Insanity

by DarkSyde

 

Can someone tell me what it is conservatives are so afraid will happen if Obama wins? They sure sound angry and terrified about the prospect, but why?

 

It can't be that they're afraid women will be suddenly awarded the right of reproductive choice; women already have it and the GOP did nothing to change that when given the chance of a lifetime. Fuel prices have tripled under the Republican reign, they seem fine with it, and so we have to assume that that worry is not a factor in the conservative calculus. Nor can they be legitimately concerned that democrats will vastly increase federal spending, or enact horrendously expensive new entitlement programs supported by taxes socializing healthcare costs and bar the government from benefiting from the cost saving magic of the free market. Nope, those horses have all fled the barn, no use closing the door now.

 

Maybe they're worried democrats will be vacationing, sound asleep at the switch, while the intel community frantically tries to warn them of a vast, pending terrorist attack that could kill thousands of innocent Americans. Some might even be concerned that democrats will exploit such a tragedy for personal political gain and still fail to capture or kill the criminal masterminds that planned it. Others might speculate Obama will respond by foolishly attacking the wrong nation on a false premise and get us embroiled in a trillion dollar bloody boondoggle that wrecks out military readiness, destroys our international credibility, and gets thousands of US soldiers and untold hundreds of thousands of innocent bystanders killed or maimed for life. Worst case scenario: after all that misery and money, weak willed democrats will roll over and hand a date for US failure to the insurgents in Iraq.

 

Then again, maybe conservatives are thinking closer to home. What if progressive economic policies wrecked the economy, rocked Wall Street, caused hundreds of thousands of people to lose their homes and jobs, and turned over our national economic future to the tender mercies of fundamentalist Sunni Monarchs and the communist Chinese? Or expand government intrusiveness making toilet paper out of the US Constitution? Maybe, in their darkest fears, they're afraid democrats would foolishly go on vacation and ignore their responsibilities while a massive hurricane lumbers into the US coast at a slow jog and sinks a major American city.

 

At least one source of conservative anxiety is imminently plausible: Democrats might rescind tax breaks for companies that ship American jobs overseas, divert corporate welfare from insanely profitable corporations to uninsured or sick children, raise taxes on billionaires and oil companies, and create a more equitable healthcare system. That such possibilities strike fear into the corrupt soul of conservatism says a lot more about their decedent priorities than the middle class values of their opponents.

 

I guess that's what confuses a lot of voters: Conservatives are worried that Democrats might do the same astonishingly lousy job Republicans have done for the last eight years. To avoid even the possibility that that might happen, conservatives prescribe electing more members from the same crew who wrecked the country, in what is clearly to any lucid external observer the ridiculous and desperate hope that the same party will fix it all by continuing, uninterrupted, the same policies that produced the damage in the first place. In the alternate reality fabricated by the seamlessly integrated conservative PR apparatus, this extension of the failed status quo is called change, in the rest of the world it's one of the better known definitions of insanity.

[DrunkBomber]

From elsewhere...

 

Insanity

by DarkSyde

 

Can someone tell me what it is conservatives are so afraid will happen if Obama wins? They sure sound angry and terrified about the prospect, but why?

 

It can't be that they're afraid women will be suddenly awarded the right of reproductive choice; women already have it and the GOP did nothing to change that when given the chance of a lifetime. Fuel prices have tripled under the Republican reign, they seem fine with it, and so we have to assume that that worry is not a factor in the conservative calculus. Nor can they be legitimately concerned that democrats will vastly increase federal spending, or enact horrendously expensive new entitlement programs supported by taxes socializing healthcare costs and bar the government from benefiting from the cost saving magic of the free market. Nope, those horses have all fled the barn, no use closing the door now.

 

Maybe they're worried democrats will be vacationing, sound asleep at the switch, while the intel community frantically tries to warn them of a vast, pending terrorist attack that could kill thousands of innocent Americans. Some might even be concerned that democrats will exploit such a tragedy for personal political gain and still fail to capture or kill the criminal masterminds that planned it. Others might speculate Obama will respond by foolishly attacking the wrong nation on a false premise and get us embroiled in a trillion dollar bloody boondoggle that wrecks out military readiness, destroys our international credibility, and gets thousands of US soldiers and untold hundreds of thousands of innocent bystanders killed or maimed for life. Worst case scenario: after all that misery and money, weak willed democrats will roll over and hand a date for US failure to the insurgents in Iraq.

 

Then again, maybe conservatives are thinking closer to home. What if progressive economic policies wrecked the economy, rocked Wall Street, caused hundreds of thousands of people to lose their homes and jobs, and turned over our national economic future to the tender mercies of fundamentalist Sunni Monarchs and the communist Chinese? Or expand government intrusiveness making toilet paper out of the US Constitution? Maybe, in their darkest fears, they're afraid democrats would foolishly go on vacation and ignore their responsibilities while a massive hurricane lumbers into the US coast at a slow jog and sinks a major American city.

 

At least one source of conservative anxiety is imminently plausible: Democrats might rescind tax breaks for companies that ship American jobs overseas, divert corporate welfare from insanely profitable corporations to uninsured or sick children, raise taxes on billionaires and oil companies, and create a more equitable healthcare system. That such possibilities strike fear into the corrupt soul of conservatism says a lot more about their decedent priorities than the middle class values of their opponents.

 

I guess that's what confuses a lot of voters: Conservatives are worried that Democrats might do the same astonishingly lousy job Republicans have done for the last eight years. To avoid even the possibility that that might happen, conservatives prescribe electing more members from the same crew who wrecked the country, in what is clearly to any lucid external observer the ridiculous and desperate hope that the same party will fix it all by continuing, uninterrupted, the same policies that produced the damage in the first place. In the alternate reality fabricated by the seamlessly integrated conservative PR apparatus, this extension of the failed status quo is called change, in the rest of the world it's one of the better known definitions of insanity.

Honestly, if anything I would classify myself a libertarian more than anything but my driving force for not liking liberal politics is I prefer smaller government. The closer this country gets to socialism the less I like it. I dont like the government taking more money from the people and allocating it how they see fit.

 

Also, quoting a blog doesnt mean anything. Seriously its a blog. Also, McCain and Bush are not the same person. The desperation of the Obama camp is laughable that theyve basically had to try and make it appear Obama is running against Bush and theyre even trying to compare his experience with the VP candidate instead of McCain. Bush and McCain hate each other but have remained united for the sake of the party. Something will lose the democrats the election, the handling of Hillary Clinton...

[DrunkBomber]

My turn. I decided since it appears you think that what is out there is taken out of context I would instead use your own words to highlight a confoundment, hence the bolded words. First, not many people really want nothing for something. I and you would be very hard pressed to name a few people that would really want to accept housing, food and health care for nothing. If I may illustrate something for you. The Republicans are attempting to grasp hold of the traditional idealogue in order to win the support of those disenfranchised. They even went as far as reaching...emphasis on reach, for Sarah Palin. The Governor of the State I live in. Now, if you were to take two people and ask them what their definition of a traditional lifestyle was the first person, perhaps somebody from the Midwest, would tell you that they could live in their house without the doors locked, everyone knows everyone and Americana is on every corner. Now if you were to ask the second person, an Alaskan Native perhaps, what they thought were some keys to traditional they might mention some of these things but they might also mention that theirs is a community that helps one another. Most times and in tradition, the men go out and kill a whale. They in turn bring in the whale for several of the townspeople to help butcher. Each person takes their share and some deliver extra to those that can't participate, the invalid or elderly. But guess what some of these people are doing? They might be babysitting the small children while the rest of the grownups are out doing the things mentioned above. So, who is doing the most work and who should get the lions share of the "reward"? This is called community, a root word being "commune" or dare I say, Communist. God forbid. That is not a true traditional lifestyle that most in the Midwest would recognize.

 

Now about the health care to those that only pay the taxes. Never mind the do nothings that will have to fend for themselves....but what about lets say we have ten adults that each pay their equal share into the healh care and pay their taxes? Of those 10, what if one of them has an elderly and dependent father and mother living with them? Do they (Mom and Dad) get the share of that one for health care or to heck with them? What about perhaps another one of the ten that has 5 kids in their home? And that original one is the only one that works? Let's say one of those 5 kids has special needs and you know over time that person is going to require more and more health care benefits than the rest of the family? And let's just say another one of the 5 kids has a child before they are 18? You know that is going to cost more. How is that distributed? Now we go to one or two more of the original 10. They are single and young and of strong health...never see a doctor except for the occasional check up. Do they still get their share? Do they get as much (or more) as the family of 6 (1 and 5 kids) or the 1 with two elderly parents? How do you distribute that?

 

I think that now that the "glitz and glamour" of the Conventions are over, we all need to listen to what the candidates, primarily the Presidential ones, have to say about fixing the problems we are facing today; gas prices, unemployment, inflation and the crashing housing market. How about the International stage of restoring our credibility and ceasing these pointless and careless wars? We have to ask ourselves when the questions are asked, who is going to have the best answer and solution? So far Obama has been talking issues....while the McCain and Palin followers continue to talk about how a great speaker she is...or is it reader?

 

GO BEARS!!!!! BEAT THE COLTS!!!!!

 

Im not opposed to some type of system IF it is done correctly and I know there are circumstances that would arise where situations would be unique and I dont think they should be overlooked, I just think that in order for someone to receive the benefits of things like universal health care that they should have to contribute to society somehow. I honestly have seen quite a few people that would like nothing better than to not have to work if they could live without it. Believe me, in Chicago there are plenty of people like this, I have come across some people that are so lazy and have such a sense of entitlement it boggles my mind. Everything is someone elses fault and they shouldnt have to work for anything.

 

As far as the candidates, Im not going to take anything they say too seriously, as the are trying to win an election, but I have seen Chicago politics first hand, and they are probably the most corrupt in the nation. Obama fit in without any issues or without ever doing anything to try and stop any of the corruption. So, Im not going to give him the benefit of the doubt now that he is going to go to Washington and "change" everything. In my eyes he is a typical politician whos policies I know I dont like.

[CrackerDog]

Also, quoting a blog doesnt mean anything. Seriously its a blog.

 

The point was what the article said, not the source. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. This article said it better than I did in this thread.

 

Also, McCain and Bush are not the same person.

 

Yes, he is. He wasn't at one time but he's adopted all of the same tactics and strategy. All of the same misguided policy.

 

The desperation of the Obama camp is laughable that theyve basically had to try and make it appear Obama is running against Bush and theyre even trying to compare his experience with the VP candidate instead of McCain. Bush and McCain hate each other but have remained united for the sake of the party. Something will lose the democrats the election, the handling of Hillary Clinton...

 

You're just being foolish here. First, the McCain camp is the desperate one. This hail mary pass on Palin is but one example of how they see this thing slipping away.

 

I'll take Obama's experience over McBush any day. I'll take intelligent thought that leads to correct conclusions over brash gut feelings that more often than not lead to colossal failure. Fact is, those two words, colossal failure, perfectly describe the Republican Party of 2000-2008. And you and people like you are to blame.

[madlithuanian]

I love the Bears mauling Manning pic! GO BEARS!

 

My turn. I decided since it appears you think that what is out there is taken out of context I would instead use your own words to highlight a confoundment, hence the bolded words. First, not many people really want nothing for something. I and you would be very hard pressed to name a few people that would really want to accept housing, food and health care for nothing. If I may illustrate something for you. The Republicans are attempting to grasp hold of the traditional idealogue in order to win the support of those disenfranchised. They even went as far as reaching...emphasis on reach, for Sarah Palin. The Governor of the State I live in. Now, if you were to take two people and ask them what their definition of a traditional lifestyle was the first person, perhaps somebody from the Midwest, would tell you that they could live in their house without the doors locked, everyone knows everyone and Americana is on every corner. Now if you were to ask the second person, an Alaskan Native perhaps, what they thought were some keys to traditional they might mention some of these things but they might also mention that theirs is a community that helps one another. Most times and in tradition, the men go out and kill a whale. They in turn bring in the whale for several of the townspeople to help butcher. Each person takes their share and some deliver extra to those that can't participate, the invalid or elderly. But guess what some of these people are doing? They might be babysitting the small children while the rest of the grownups are out doing the things mentioned above. So, who is doing the most work and who should get the lions share of the "reward"? This is called community, a root word being "commune" or dare I say, Communist. God forbid. That is not a true traditional lifestyle that most in the Midwest would recognize.

 

Now about the health care to those that only pay the taxes. Never mind the do nothings that will have to fend for themselves....but what about lets say we have ten adults that each pay their equal share into the healh care and pay their taxes? Of those 10, what if one of them has an elderly and dependent father and mother living with them? Do they (Mom and Dad) get the share of that one for health care or to heck with them? What about perhaps another one of the ten that has 5 kids in their home? And that original one is the only one that works? Let's say one of those 5 kids has special needs and you know over time that person is going to require more and more health care benefits than the rest of the family? And let's just say another one of the 5 kids has a child before they are 18? You know that is going to cost more. How is that distributed? Now we go to one or two more of the original 10. They are single and young and of strong health...never see a doctor except for the occasional check up. Do they still get their share? Do they get as much (or more) as the family of 6 (1 and 5 kids) or the 1 with two elderly parents? How do you distribute that?

 

I think that now that the "glitz and glamour" of the Conventions are over, we all need to listen to what the candidates, primarily the Presidential ones, have to say about fixing the problems we are facing today; gas prices, unemployment, inflation and the crashing housing market. How about the International stage of restoring our credibility and ceasing these pointless and careless wars? We have to ask ourselves when the questions are asked, who is going to have the best answer and solution? So far Obama has been talking issues....while the McCain and Palin followers continue to talk about how a great speaker she is...or is it reader?

 

GO BEARS!!!!! BEAT THE COLTS!!!!!

 

[DrunkBomber]

The point was what the article said, not the source. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. This article said it better than I did in this thread.

 

 

 

Yes, he is. He wasn't at one time but he's adopted all of the same tactics and strategy. All of the same misguided policy.

 

 

 

You're just being foolish here. First, the McCain camp is the desperate one. This hail mary pass on Palin is but one example of how they see this thing slipping away.

 

I'll take Obama's experience over McBush any day. I'll take intelligent thought that leads to correct conclusions over brash gut feelings that more often than not lead to colossal failure. Fact is, those two words, colossal failure, perfectly describe the Republican Party of 2000-2008. And you and people like you are to blame.

People like me are to blame? You dont know anything about me and nothing about politics. McCain is going to win this election. I guarantee it. Maybe people like YOU are failing since 2000 but my life has been nothing but prospering. Maybe instead of blaming Bush or republicans for your failures take a look in a mirror and do something for yourself without putting your palms out.

 

Note, this is only meant for cracker so I dont need any other dems chiming in on this post thinking Im applying it to them but when I have an internet tough guy saying people like me are the reason he is failing someone needs to say something.

[CrackerDog]

People like me are to blame? You dont know anything about me and nothing about politics. McCain is going to win this election. I guarantee it. Maybe people like YOU are failing since 2000 but my life has been nothing but prospering. Maybe instead of blaming Bush or republicans for your failures take a look in a mirror and do something for yourself without putting your palms out.

 

Note, this is only meant for cracker so I dont need any other dems chiming in on this post thinking Im applying it to them but when I have an internet tough guy saying people like me are the reason he is failing someone needs to say something.

 

Your party failed the American people. You and people like you blindly keep sending them back to do more of the same. You're guilty of harming this country deeply so you could have a few extra pennies in your pocket. There are thousands of dead Americans in a mistaken war because you and people like you elected a moron. You are to blame.

 

I'm personally doing fine. This isn't about me. It's about how your party continues to fail and you continue to support them.

 

Learn how to read. You either can't read or you like to fight straw men. You haven't responded to one thing I've said about the failures of your party and instead have threatened me and made this about personal attacks. You're the poster boy for the Republicans I see electing idiot political hacks over and over again. No, I don't respect you. You're pathetic. If McCain wins it'll be because the country hasn't learned any better than you have.

 

Since you can't seem to understand anything anyone says to you, I see no point in trying to get anything to sink into that concrete skull of yours.

[DrunkBomber]

Your party failed the American people. You and people like you blindly keep sending them back to do more of the same. You're guilty of harming this country deeply so you could have a few extra pennies in your pocket. There are thousands of dead Americans in a mistaken war because you and people like you elected a moron. You are to blame.

 

I'm personally doing fine. This isn't about me. It's about how your party continues to fail and you continue to support them.

 

Learn how to read. You either can't read or you like to fight straw men. You haven't responded to one thing I've said about the failures of your party and instead have threatened me and made this about personal attacks. You're the poster boy for the Republicans I see electing idiot political hacks over and over again. No, I don't respect you. You're pathetic. If McCain wins it'll be because the country hasn't learned any better than you have.

 

Since you can't seem to understand anything anyone says to you, I see no point in trying to get anything to sink into that concrete skull of yours.

It sounds like its getting pretty bad for you. Give me your address and I will mail you some singles since Im to blame for your problems, its not you being a loser or anything, its everyone elses fault.

[Connorbear]

Honestly, if anything I would classify myself a libertarian more than anything but my driving force for not liking liberal politics is I prefer smaller government.

 

I know I promised to stay out of the discussion but I just wanted to ask if you are going to vote for Ron Paul? Although I would not, I do respect the fact that he was against the war from the beginning. Being you are in Illinois, you know Obama is going to win the state and your vote may have more value legitimizing a third party than for McCain.

 

Just curious.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

I know I promised to stay out of the discussion but I just wanted to ask if you are going to vote for Ron Paul? Although I would not, I do respect the fact that he was against the war from the beginning. Being you are in Illinois, you know Obama is going to win the state and your vote may have more value legitimizing a third party than for McCain.

 

Just curious.

 

Peace

I voted for Nader the past 2 elections for that reason and this year I am voting for McCain.

[Connorbear]

I voted for Nader the past 2 elections for that reason and this year I am voting for McCain.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Peace

[CrackerDog]

I voted for Nader the past 2 elections for that reason and this year I am voting for McCain.

 

Funny how nobody admits to voting for Bush these days.

[DrunkBomber]

Funny how nobody admits to voting for Bush these days.

[CrackerDog]

 

Oh, I believe you. You NEEEEEVER voted for shrub...

 

[DrunkBomber]

Oh, I believe you. You NEEEEEVER voted for shrub...

 

its ok to whine

[madlithuanian]

As my father always said to me, "In every presidential election, there's always one loser. And that's the citizens."

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Funny how nobody admits to voting for Bush these days.

 

 

In case Drunk Bomber thinks of me as a Liberal Left Wing nutjob...or whatever else nasty terminology people like Ann Coultour (sp?) would call those opposed to her, I actually did vote for McCain in 2000. I wrote him in as I really wasn't enthused by Gore and there was no way I would vote for Bush... Just to emphasize that point I voted for Kerry in 2004.

 

So I think my viewpoint is of a more "centrist" Moderate type viewpoint. Although I find it hard to convince those of the Radical Right Republican that those exist. And I don't like Palin.

 

 

“We don't want someone who will get 98 percent of the vote. We want someone who will get 51 percent of the vote.” - Ann Coultour

 

So far that hasn't happened, probably never will.

[CrackerDog]

Ann Coultour

 

[DrunkBomber]

In case Drunk Bomber thinks of me as a Liberal Left Wing nutjob...or whatever else nasty terminology people like Ann Coultour (sp?) would call those opposed to her, I actually did vote for McCain in 2000. I wrote him in as I really wasn't enthused by Gore and there was no way I would vote for Bush... Just to emphasize that point I voted for Kerry in 2004.

 

So I think my viewpoint is of a more "centrist" Moderate type viewpoint. Although I find it hard to convince those of the Radical Right Republican that those exist. And I don't like Palin.

 

 

“We don't want someone who will get 98 percent of the vote. We want someone who will get 51 percent of the vote.” - Ann Coultour

 

So far that hasn't happened, probably never will.

I dont like Bush so thats why I didnt vote for him. I didnt like the Gore or Kerry either though. Since IL is going blue no matter what I normally vote third party. I dont even actually consider myself a republican as much as a libertarian. I just really dislike Obama, I live in his idea of politics and theyre terrible. A lot of the far right things kind of annoy me as well because I dont agree with them so I dont like trying to defend them, I am just for smaller government. I stand by my guarantee though. McCain is going to win and its not even going to be that close. Obama is self destructing.