Still not sold on Orton

[KiLoc69]

I know our running game was owning, but we can't run on 3rd and 5+ so many times. I was having 2005 QB on a leash flashbacks. When they actually let Kyle throw on crucial plays, he did a nice job and I want to see more of that in the future. I want to see if he can do what he did on those plays consistantly. As of now, I'm not sure he can win a game in which our running game can only sqeak out 65-80 yards.

 

Also, even though it worked, I HATE THE FB DIVE! The only time I want the ball in Mckie's hands is a checkdown in the flats or a fumble recovery. Speaking of fumbles, has Kreutz been the problem this whole time?

 

 

 

 

 

In closing, I CANNOT WAIT to see Tillman shutdown Muhammad next week. I hope M. Brown makes Moose get alligator arms and the clip gets played more than the Todd Stinkston clip.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I know our running game was owning, but we can't run on 3rd and 5+ so many times. I was having 2005 QB on a leash flashbacks. When they actually let Kyle throw on crucial plays, he did a nice job and I want to see more of that in the future. I want to see if he can do what he did on those plays consistantly. As of now, I'm not sure he can win a game in which our running game can only sqeak out 65-80 yards.

 

Also, even though it worked, I HATE THE FB DIVE! The only time I want the ball in Mckie's hands is a checkdown in the flats or a fumble recovery. Speaking of fumbles, has Kreutz been the problem this whole time?

 

 

 

 

 

In closing, I CANNOT WAIT to see Tillman shutdown Muhammad next week. I hope M. Brown makes Moose get alligator arms and the clip gets played more than the Todd Stinkston clip.

1 comment- Muhammad sucks. I'd be surprised if he caught 3 passes.

[BigDaddy]

I know our running game was owning, but we can't run on 3rd and 5+ so many times. I was having 2005 QB on a leash flashbacks. When they actually let Kyle throw on crucial plays, he did a nice job and I want to see more of that in the future. I want to see if he can do what he did on those plays consistantly. As of now, I'm not sure he can win a game in which our running game can only sqeak out 65-80 yards.

 

Also, even though it worked, I HATE THE FB DIVE! The only time I want the ball in Mckie's hands is a checkdown in the flats or a fumble recovery. Speaking of fumbles, has Kreutz been the problem this whole time?

 

 

 

 

 

In closing, I CANNOT WAIT to see Tillman shutdown Muhammad next week. I hope M. Brown makes Moose get alligator arms and the clip gets played more than the Todd Stinkston clip.

 

It had nothing to do with trusting or not trusting orton. He did a great job and what I think will happen more often is we will definitely get these big TEs of ours involved and that will open up ALL passing opportunities but our running game was doing great yesterday, why not try and run on 3rd and 5. It's a great way to set the season up because teams don't know what we'll do in those situations. But I noticed, the closer Orton gets to the endzone, the better he gets, which is a GREAT thing. i think he will only get better.

[Connorbear]

1 comment- Muhammad sucks. I'd be surprised if he caught 3 passes.

I want Mike Brown to lay him out. I'm talking they have to use smelling salts to wake him.

 

Peace

[soxfan101]

Orton definitely didnt over-impress or anything. He probably should of had atleast 1 if not 2 interceptions as well, but at the end of the day he kept us in the game and delivered big on 3rd down. To be fair the pocket was collapsing on him often from the left side and it was his first start on the road against a tough defense. Id hope he improves next week because we cant rely too much on our defense every game not too mention teams are going to try and gameplan against forte now.

[Da Bears 88]

Sure, he plays mistake free. But, you can't continue to throw barely over 100+ yards and get away with it.

[KiLoc69]

our running game was doing great yesterday, why not try and run on 3rd and 5.

 

Because no matter how good your running game is, running on 3rd and 5 will fail in getting a 1st down most of the time. You're gonna tell me the Bears were confident they could get a first down on the 3rd and 6 that Forte took to the house from the 50? That play REEKED of fear of putting the ball in Kyle's hands that early in the game (luckily it worked out). Will Kyle be able to handle playing without a leash and sometimes having to win games for us? I don't know, but I am 100% positive that our team won't get very far if we keep calling plays from 2005 for 2008 Orton.

[GrizzlyBear]

Because no matter how good your running game is, running on 3rd and 5 will fail in getting a 1st down most of the time. You're gonna tell me the Bears were confident they could get a first down on the 3rd and 6 that Forte took to the house from the 50? That play REEKED of fear of putting the ball in Kyle's hands that early in the game (luckily it worked out). Will Kyle be able to handle playing without a leash and sometimes having to win games for us? I don't know, but I am 100% positive that our team won't get very far if we keep calling plays from 2005 for 2008 Orton.

 

So now I guess we have a inside source, Cuz the only one who could answer that Is Ron Turner, and i dont see registered on this forum.

[KiLoc69]

So now I guess we have a inside source, Cuz the only one who could answer that Is Ron Turner, and i dont see registered on this forum.

 

I didn't claim I have any special insight, I'm calling it as I (and I think most people) saw it. Can anyone honestly tell me that a team who has confidence in their QB would choose to run instead of pass in that exact situation, 1st Qrt, 3rd and 6 on the 50, down by 3? It wasn't just once that we ran it on 3rd and 5+ btw, you honestly don't find anything strange about that?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Sure, he plays mistake free. But, you can't continue to throw barely over 100+ yards and get away with it.

Answer this-

 

Would you rather have 250 yards and 3 INTs from your QB?

or

Would you rather have 170 yards and no TOs from your QB?

[Bears4Ever_34]

You guys aren't getting it. It all depends on the situation and game plan. We were running the ball well, Kyle didn't need to throw for 250 yards. If you didn't notice, we ran for over 180 yards! It's dumb to make it an either or type of thing. There is going to be a time where we can't run the ball effectively and Kyle will be forced to throw it 30-40 times. Then I would expect him (hopefully) to be in the 250-300+ yard range. But any day of the week I'd rather have our running game go for over 180 then have our QB throw for 350 yards mainly because you control the game and clock when you run the ball, and it makes a quarterbacks job much easier if your not a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady to just manage the game. That's what we did last night, Kyle managed the game but that's alright.

[AZ54]

Instead of micromanaging every single play call find a way to celebrate a big victory. A victory nobody expected. We beat Indy soundly on both sides of the ball. You might not like the play calls but you can't argue with results.

[ParkerBear7]

I was overall pleased with how kyle handled himself in his first start of the season on the road against a good colts team. Forte and Jone had a nice game. TE's played well but we need to use Olsen more in the slot. Very conservative game plan and for the most part a mistake free game. Only mistake that I recall was Hester getting cute and getting tackled at the 5yd line on a delayed kick return try. There where also a few incompletions on deep routes that indy could had a long gain or score but the Vasher and Tillman lucked out on. Coaching and the OL did a nice job as well.

[KiLoc69]

Instead of micromanaging every single play call find a way to celebrate a big victory. A victory nobody expected. We beat Indy soundly on both sides of the ball. You might not like the play calls but you can't argue with results.

 

 

Trust me, I'm enjoying the hell out of this victory, this does not mean I can't be critical and wanting to discuss what I want to see in future games.

[ChileBear]

You guys aren't getting it. It all depends on the situation and game plan. We were running the ball well, Kyle didn't need to throw for 250 yards. If you didn't notice, we ran for over 180 yards! It's dumb to make it an either or type of thing. There is going to be a time where we can't run the ball effectively and Kyle will be forced to throw it 30-40 times. Then I would expect him (hopefully) to be in the 250-300+ yard range. But any day of the week I'd rather have our running game go for over 180 then have our QB throw for 350 yards mainly because you control the game and clock when you run the ball, and it makes a quarterbacks job much easier if your not a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady to just manage the game. That's what we did last night, Kyle managed the game but that's alright.

Well said Bears4ever. When I see that our QB has thrown more than 30 passes it had to be a loss. Give me a game where we run 200 yrds and pass 20 times and control the clock. Means that the other team is in the hole and our D can T-off on 'em.

[Pixote]

Well said Bears4ever. When I see that our QB has thrown more than 30 passes it had to be a loss. Give me a game where we run 200 yrds and pass 20 times and control the clock. Means that the other team is in the hole and our D can T-off on 'em.

 

Agree with you on this one. The Bears need a minimum of a 60% run to 40% pass ratio to be successful, IMO. Run that ball with success like in week 1 and we will win a mess of games this year.

[bear trap]

I didn't claim I have any special insight, I'm calling it as I (and I think most people) saw it. Can anyone honestly tell me that a team who has confidence in their QB would choose to run instead of pass in that exact situation, 1st Qrt, 3rd and 6 on the 50, down by 3? It wasn't just once that we ran it on 3rd and 5+ btw, you honestly don't find anything strange about that?

Wow, I can't believe the mentallity of some people. Last year everyone was pissed because we claimed to be a running team and we always passed it. Now we actually do what we say we're going to do and you cry and complain because orton didn't throw it enough???? What's wrong with the play call on 3rd and 6? I think the last thing Indy thought was that we would try and run it, and turns out Turner was right. We caught them off guard and it worked big time. How about the 19 yard pick up kyle threw to llyod? How about the 12 or so yard pass to booker? How about the pass to hester that got us close to a first down? How about the pass to Olsen, which I can't remember for how many yards it was? How about the pass to clark, or even both of them? Kyle averaged 7 yards per pass which is pretty decent considering how our running game was looking. He also did a great job of recognizing blitzes and throwing the screen to the rb. He also had 3 passes over 20 yards. So I really don't see the point in you calling out the passing game. Kyle did pretty good and ranked 14th in qb's this week. ( notables who did worse than kyle by passer rating system: Derek Anderson, Peyton manning, Carson Palmer, Jeff Garcia, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, and Eli Manning) So why again are you complaining?????

[DaBearSox]

I want Mike Brown to lay him out. I'm talking they have to use smelling salts to wake him.

 

Peace

 

I don't...ha...that has injury written al over it

 

Sure, he plays mistake free. But, you can't continue to throw barely over 100+ yards and get away with it.

 

 

Answer this-

 

Would you rather have 250 yards and 3 INTs from your QB?

or

Would you rather have 170 yards and no TOs from your QB?

 

^^^^^^^

beat me too it....

 

I mean come on look at his winning percentage as a starter...they showed that stat at the begining of the game and he was only behind Peyton, Brady, and a couple other stars (players with at least 10 starts)...i'd take that any day of the week over Rex headcase

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but the stats prove you are wrong. Is running the ball on 3rd and 6 the norm? Of coarse not. But it does happen, and that doesn't mean the team lacks confidence in their QB. Go to ESPN, and look at last years stats for RBs. Check out there splits, and it will show you how many carries the back had on various downs, from 1st and 10 to 3rd and 6. I think you will find most every back has carries in the situation you are talking about. Does Addai getting a 3rd and 6 carry mean Indy lacks faith in Manning? No.

 

But sometimes you look beyond the situation you mention. If you are in 3rd and 6, but the defense is playing back expecting pass, then you may have a shot to pickup a 1st down on the ground. If the defense goes into a nickel or dime, and you believe you can block the extra DBs on a run play, then take a shot.

 

You say we tried it more than once. We did it 3 times.

 

The first went for a 50 yard score. It worked once, so we tried it again later, and it didn't work. The 3rd time was more due to the situation. It was after Hester choose to bring out the KO and got dropped at the 3. After two plays for nothing, we ran the ball, which is not as uncommon as you think. You may not get the 1st, but key is giving your punter breathing room.

 

Honestly, I just think you are making too big of a deal about this. We were running the ball effectively, so we tried to run on some common passing downs. I have no problem w/ this, if for no other reason, we tried something that was not expected.

 

I would also counter your point w/ this. Three times we passed in 3rd and short situations. If you lack confidence in your QB, would you put the ball in his hands on 3rd and short?

 

3rd and 2 - Pass to Olsen for 7 and a 1st down.

3rd and 2 - Pass to Forte for 4 and a 1st down.

3rd and 1 - Pass to Clark for 26 and a 1st down, setting up a TD.

 

By your logic, should we assume we lack faith in Forte because we passed in situations more traditional for a run?

 

 

I didn't claim I have any special insight, I'm calling it as I (and I think most people) saw it. Can anyone honestly tell me that a team who has confidence in their QB would choose to run instead of pass in that exact situation, 1st Qrt, 3rd and 6 on the 50, down by 3? It wasn't just once that we ran it on 3rd and 5+ btw, you honestly don't find anything strange about that?

[GrizzlyBear]

Very nice analogy NFO

[Da Bears 88]

bear trap, all them guys you listed are hell of alot better QB's than Orton.

 

Them guys are known to put up big numbers. He isn't.

 

Orton is a mediocre QB and that's that.

[DaBearSox]

bear trap, all them guys you listed are hell of alot better QB's than Orton.

 

Them guys are known to put up big numbers. He isn't.

 

Orton is a mediocre QB and that's that.

 

And Rex is a superstar?

[GrizzlyBear]

bear trap, all them guys you listed are hell of alot better QB's than Orton.

 

Them guys are known to put up big numbers. He isn't.

 

Orton is a mediocre QB and that's that.

 

Bear88 your totaly not getting it are you? He was stating after this weekend Orton is ahead of those guys. YOu can not say that he is not. So why the Bullcrap negative?

[madlithuanian]

His blind support of Grossman is clouding his vision...

 

Bear88 your totaly not getting it are you? He was stating after this weekend Orton is ahead of those guys. YOu can not say that he is not. So why the Bullcrap negative?

[KiLoc69]

Sorry, but the stats prove you are wrong. Is running the ball on 3rd and 6 the norm? Of coarse not. But it does happen, and that doesn't mean the team lacks confidence in their QB. Go to ESPN, and look at last years stats for RBs. Check out there splits, and it will show you how many carries the back had on various downs, from 1st and 10 to 3rd and 6. I think you will find most every back has carries in the situation you are talking about. Does Addai getting a 3rd and 6 carry mean Indy lacks faith in Manning? No.

 

But sometimes you look beyond the situation you mention. If you are in 3rd and 6, but the defense is playing back expecting pass, then you may have a shot to pickup a 1st down on the ground. If the defense goes into a nickel or dime, and you believe you can block the extra DBs on a run play, then take a shot.

 

You say we tried it more than once. We did it 3 times.

 

The first went for a 50 yard score. It worked once, so we tried it again later, and it didn't work. The 3rd time was more due to the situation. It was after Hester choose to bring out the KO and got dropped at the 3. After two plays for nothing, we ran the ball, which is not as uncommon as you think. You may not get the 1st, but key is giving your punter breathing room.

 

Honestly, I just think you are making too big of a deal about this. We were running the ball effectively, so we tried to run on some common passing downs. I have no problem w/ this, if for no other reason, we tried something that was not expected.

 

I would also counter your point w/ this. Three times we passed in 3rd and short situations. If you lack confidence in your QB, would you put the ball in his hands on 3rd and short?

 

3rd and 2 - Pass to Olsen for 7 and a 1st down.

3rd and 2 - Pass to Forte for 4 and a 1st down.

3rd and 1 - Pass to Clark for 26 and a 1st down, setting up a TD.

 

By your logic, should we assume we lack faith in Forte because we passed in situations more traditional for a run?

 

I know running on 3 and 6 happens, but that's usually when teams are backed up and don't want to risk a pick 6 or they need a couple of extra yards for punting room. You are not gonna tell me offensive coordinators do this with confidence they will pick up a first down. I think it's pretty obvious that being on the 50 yard line, we got conservative and figured we'd play the field position game. Luckily it worked out and we were able to lengthen the leash a little bit, but not totally until we took a 2 possesion lead.

 

As for the passing on 3rd and short the first couple of times, those are common situations to run OR pass so the analogy doesn't hold up to running on 3rd and 6 from the 50 in the 1st qrtr. I don't think anyone lacks confidence in Kyle being accurate and making good decisions under 5 yards. The pass on 3rd and 1, we had momentum and a relatively comfortable lead judging by the game flow at the time so the decision to take a shot at that point was not one i'd call Super Ballsy, even though I liked the call.

 

 

Again, I'm not knocking Orton, I like what HE did very much. I'm not even completely knocking Turner, I like how we opened it up more in the second half. My fear is that in future games our running attack might not be as good as sunday's and we may hold Kyle's leash too tight until it's too late for him to do anything about it.