I Blame

[madlithuanian]

If that's the case, Love needs to get and "F" for the day. That element should have been known as a possibility and adjustment should have been made to curb that.

 

I wonder how much was Harris being on the Carolina team. The announcers mentioned this. We have the same offense and same terminology as we did when Harris was w/ the team. The announcers pointed out that on several audibles, Harris was yelling to his teamates what the play would be. I am not sure that is so much "Orton being figured out" so much as a defensive player who knew our playbook. At least, that is what it looked like to me often enough.

[madlithuanian]

I agree that it was probably a TD. But 1st and goal on the one inch line is something that should be made in 3 tries...and maybe better sepnd your challenge on something else later. Like if it were ruled an incompletion.

 

He had a TD yesterday. Clark fell into the endzone and was never touched. I don't know why they didn't call a TD and why the Bears didn't challenge.

[nfoligno]

I agree that it was probably a TD. But 1st and goal on the one inch line is something that should be made in 3 tries...and maybe better sepnd your challenge on something else later. Like if it were ruled an incompletion.

 

I think the key point though is, Orton is getting called out for not throwing a TD, yet not getting credit for plays like this which (a) should have been a score and ( at minimum, set up an automatic score.

[nfoligno]

If that's the case, Love needs to get and "F" for the day. That element should have been known as a possibility and adjustment should have been made to curb that.

 

No problem w/ your statement, but I think it is the entire staff. I often don't make too big of a deal about player movement, but that is often because the system and terminology often see changes before a team plays against a team w/ an ex-player.

 

When we play Minny, we will face Berrian. But while he knew the playbook, it is much harder to teach the minny defense everything. On the other hand, Harris was on the field, and in a position to make immediate calls/changes.

 

Maybe it is all BS, but it sure did look like Harris, and the D as a whole, knew exactly what was coming, particularly after Orton made changes at the LOS, where Harris could hear such.

[madlithuanian]

Oh, I agree. I'm just putting the blame on the genernal even though many officers made mistakes.

 

You'd swear Billicheat was on the other sideline with a handy-cam in how easily they could tell what our plays were...

 

It boils down to which game is the anomoly...this or last week? This week showed that while leading at half, we make no adjustments and played ultra conservative until we actually needed to, then call pass on 2-1. I am very concerned... Just saying...

 

 

 

No problem w/ your statement, but I think it is the entire staff. I often don't make too big of a deal about player movement, but that is often because the system and terminology often see changes before a team plays against a team w/ an ex-player.

 

When we play Minny, we will face Berrian. But while he knew the playbook, it is much harder to teach the minny defense everything. On the other hand, Harris was on the field, and in a position to make immediate calls/changes.

 

Maybe it is all BS, but it sure did look like Harris, and the D as a whole, knew exactly what was coming, particularly after Orton made changes at the LOS, where Harris could hear such.

[madlithuanian]

Gotcha. I agree...

 

I think the key point though is, Orton is getting called out for not throwing a TD, yet not getting credit for plays like this which (a) should have been a score and ( at minimum, set up an automatic score.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Historically I've been one of the biggest Grossman backers here. But I still think the coaches made the right decision going with Orton. Grossman and his happy feet didn't win them or me over. I assumed Rex would win the job but, unfortunately, he didn't. Orton wasn't great yesterday (or against the Colts) but let's face it, in two games he did enough for us to win. Olsen gave this one away.

 

BTW... After hearing that the play to Booker was an Orton audible, I'm backing off the fire Turner thing. He called a decent game until the late third quarter. I still think he needs to grow a pair but the biggest blunder in this game wasn't Ron's.

Bingo. I will say one thing- I'm tired of Orton being given the chance to be Manning out there. We need to run the f***ing ball 65% of the time.

 

He had a TD yesterday. Clark fell into the endzone and was never touched. I don't know why they didn't call a TD and why the Bears didn't challenge.

It was Lloyd, not Clark.

[azbearsfan]

No problem w/ your statement, but I think it is the entire staff. I often don't make too big of a deal about player movement, but that is often because the system and terminology often see changes before a team plays against a team w/ an ex-player.

 

When we play Minny, we will face Berrian. But while he knew the playbook, it is much harder to teach the minny defense everything. On the other hand, Harris was on the field, and in a position to make immediate calls/changes.

 

Maybe it is all BS, but it sure did look like Harris, and the D as a whole, knew exactly what was coming, particularly after Orton made changes at the LOS, where Harris could hear such.

 

 

Dude they change audible calls/plays every game. What was called an audible when Harris was here has been changed many times. The defense was sniffing out Orton's changes. He changed to a bad play several times throughout the game.

 

And I disagree. He didn't play well enough to win this game. We needed a leader to march us down the field, and we didn't get it. Not that I want Rex in, because I think his ship has sailed, but Orton needs to improve quickly.

[nfoligno]

Dude they change audible calls/plays every game. What was called an audible when Harris was here has been changed many times. The defense was sniffing out Orton's changes. He changed to a bad play several times throughout the game.

 

Really? I have never heard this. They come up w/ new terms and such for each and every game? Little hard to believe for me. We have a lot of players who struggle to learn the playbook w/o having to learn new stuff like this each and every week.

 

Let me ask you this. Did you DVR or tape the game? If not, check it out again when replayed on NFL Network. Especially later in the game, take a look and tell me who is it on their defense yelling out to the other player and calling the coming play as if he were a fotune teller. I don't recall Harris being a Mike Brown clone when he was here. Suddenly, he is that smart? Sorry, but that is tough to swallow. It is far more believable to me that Harris brought a little insight as to what we were doing.

 

And I disagree. He didn't play well enough to win this game. We needed a leader to march us down the field, and we didn't get it. Not that I want Rex in, because I think his ship has sailed, but Orton needs to improve quickly.

 

First, if you go back, I have been very consistent calling out Orton on his downfield throws, and saying he needed to do more, and needs to improve. I said that I do not know whether he is simply a short term bandaid or a long term solution. I am not some blind Orton supporter.

 

At the same time, I do believe he did enough for the team to win the game. If Olsen doesn't drop the ball twice, do we win? Loo, lots of "ifs and buts". At the end of the day, we did not win. But Orton didn't have a bad game. He had a pretty decent game, IMHO. Combine decent QB, w/ very solid RB and very solid defense, and I think that will often lead to wins.

[azbearsfan]

Dude they change audible calls/plays every game. What was called an audible when Harris was here has been changed many times. The defense was sniffing out Orton's changes. He changed to a bad play several times throughout the game.

 

Really? I have never heard this. They come up w/ new terms and such for each and every game? Little hard to believe for me. We have a lot of players who struggle to learn the playbook w/o having to learn new stuff like this each and every week.

 

Let me ask you this. Did you DVR or tape the game? If not, check it out again when replayed on NFL Network. Especially later in the game, take a look and tell me who is it on their defense yelling out to the other player and calling the coming play as if he were a fotune teller. I don't recall Harris being a Mike Brown clone when he was here. Suddenly, he is that smart? Sorry, but that is tough to swallow. It is far more believable to me that Harris brought a little insight as to what we were doing.

 

And I disagree. He didn't play well enough to win this game. We needed a leader to march us down the field, and we didn't get it. Not that I want Rex in, because I think his ship has sailed, but Orton needs to improve quickly.

 

First, if you go back, I have been very consistent calling out Orton on his downfield throws, and saying he needed to do more, and needs to improve. I said that I do not know whether he is simply a short term bandaid or a long term solution. I am not some blind Orton supporter.

 

At the same time, I do believe he did enough for the team to win the game. If Olsen doesn't drop the ball twice, do we win? Loo, lots of "ifs and buts". At the end of the day, we did not win. But Orton didn't have a bad game. He had a pretty decent game, IMHO. Combine decent QB, w/ very solid RB and very solid defense, and I think that will often lead to wins.

 

 

Nfo, We do it in high school. Its not that tough. If high school kids can do it, pros can. And if teams didn't change them then everyone would know everyones elses calls because people change teams all the time. So you think that next week Tampa Bay will know all of our calls because Griese was here last year and we dont change them? No way.

 

And no Harris is not that smart. I saw their linebackers calling out the plays as well. They were reading Orton and not calling the exact play, they were calling what type of play it was, pass or run.

 

The fear is this. Pretty soon teams are going to take away the run and short passing game. Orton will have to loosen them up by hitting wide open receivers past 15 yards. And he will have to be an NFL caliber QB and check to the correct plays.

 

And if we are talking about "ifs", what if Carolina holds onto the 3 near picks, the last one going house. What do you say about Orton then?

 

And I disagree about the defense. We dont have a good enough defense for Orton to kick back and play like he did on Sunday. That defensive effort in the second half was bad, IMO. Looked like the preseason, letting a rookie gash them like that. Missed tackles, Brown and Vasher look like trash in coverage. Orton is going to have to win games like that for us....and he didn't.

[nfoligno]

And no Harris is not that smart. I saw their linebackers calling out the plays as well. They were reading Orton and not calling the exact play, they were calling what type of play it was, pass or run.

 

LBs call out plays on pretty much every down. But Harris yelling what is coming does not seem the norm, and yet we saw it. Also, I do not think it was as simple as run/pass, as he seemed to direct which way the run was going.

 

The fear is this. Pretty soon teams are going to take away the run and short passing game. Orton will have to loosen them up by hitting wide open receivers past 15 yards. And he will have to be an NFL caliber QB and check to the correct plays.

 

I don't think you will find a post where I argue otherwise, though I do still believe a team can be far more dangerous than some credit w/o a deep ball. I have seen teams using the WCO, for example, and not often go deep, but that doesn't make them poor. But they do other things simply better. We have been running the RB screen, for example, better than in the past, but it still goes for small chunks of yards, where as other teams can turn this run into a big play.

 

But the point is, I agree, and have said as much. Orton needs to improve on his downfield passing. Further, he needs to improve on his checks and audibles. But how much is experience? He has basically one season of experience on the field prior to this year, and I doubt he was given much freedom to audible or check at the LOS that first year.

 

And I disagree about the defense. We dont have a good enough defense for Orton to kick back and play like he did on Sunday. That defensive effort in the second half was bad, IMO. Looked like the preseason, letting a rookie gash them like that. Missed tackles, Brown and Vasher look like trash in coverage. Orton is going to have to win games like that for us....and he didn't.

 

Okay, fine. But then should the defense not be getting ripped a bit more. I have read plenty of "Orton sucks" posts, as well as "We should fire Turner today", but very little calling out the defense.

 

Look, I agree Orton needs to improve, particularly his downfield play. I have NEVER said otherwise. But, the points I would make are (a) Orton was not all bad in this game, ( Orton did have a pretty decent game and © there are other areas who can share some of the burden beyond Orton, like the defense, as you said.

[azbearsfan]

And no Harris is not that smart. I saw their linebackers calling out the plays as well. They were reading Orton and not calling the exact play, they were calling what type of play it was, pass or run.

 

LBs call out plays on pretty much every down. But Harris yelling what is coming does not seem the norm, and yet we saw it. Also, I do not think it was as simple as run/pass, as he seemed to direct which way the run was going.

 

The fear is this. Pretty soon teams are going to take away the run and short passing game. Orton will have to loosen them up by hitting wide open receivers past 15 yards. And he will have to be an NFL caliber QB and check to the correct plays.

 

I don't think you will find a post where I argue otherwise, though I do still believe a team can be far more dangerous than some credit w/o a deep ball. I have seen teams using the WCO, for example, and not often go deep, but that doesn't make them poor. But they do other things simply better. We have been running the RB screen, for example, better than in the past, but it still goes for small chunks of yards, where as other teams can turn this run into a big play.

 

But the point is, I agree, and have said as much. Orton needs to improve on his downfield passing. Further, he needs to improve on his checks and audibles. But how much is experience? He has basically one season of experience on the field prior to this year, and I doubt he was given much freedom to audible or check at the LOS that first year.

 

And I disagree about the defense. We dont have a good enough defense for Orton to kick back and play like he did on Sunday. That defensive effort in the second half was bad, IMO. Looked like the preseason, letting a rookie gash them like that. Missed tackles, Brown and Vasher look like trash in coverage. Orton is going to have to win games like that for us....and he didn't.

 

Okay, fine. But then should the defense not be getting ripped a bit more. I have read plenty of "Orton sucks" posts, as well as "We should fire Turner today", but very little calling out the defense.

 

Look, I agree Orton needs to improve, particularly his downfield play. I have NEVER said otherwise. But, the points I would make are (a) Orton was not all bad in this game, ( Orton did have a pretty decent game and © there are other areas who can share some of the burden beyond Orton, like the defense, as you said.

 

 

lol

Check out my first post in this thread.

I said plenty of blame to go around.

Olsen, Orton, Turner for the 4th and 1 play, the defense, and Davis for drops a holding penalty and getting in D Mannings way on his kick return. If Davis doesn't trip Manning up he takes it a long way.

 

I still think you are giving Harris way too much credit. That guy was trying to learn the defensive coverage when he was here not learning our audible signals which are changed anyway. There is no doubt in my mind that the Carolina defense was able to read Orton in the first half and know what the heck he was calling by the third quarter. Its like tipping your pitches in baseball.

 

If your theory is true, then we are doomed against our old quarterback next week as he truely knows the offense.

[StrangeBears]

There is no way that the Bears have just kept the same audible signals since Chris Harris last played with the team in 2006. Every team in the NFL would just be able to look at film to easily see the calls -- you wouldn't even need a former team member.

[jackie hayes]

Not that it adds anything new, but to add to the rantpile. Olsen -- WTF??????? Inexcusable. It wasn't even like he snuck up on you the second time. Unbefnlievable. Orton -- COMPLETE ONE DAMN DOWNFIELD PASS. Don't throw that wr screen for the millionth time when they've already been jumping on it. Play calling -- STOP CALLING DOWNFIELD PASSES FOR A QB WHO CAN NOT -- CAN NOT -- COMPLETE ONE. You want a game manager, you got one. Now how's about using him like that? Hell, Chad Pennington doesn't keep going downfield every drive, and he's better than Orton. Stop it. Stop it. Stop. Stop it. Stop. Please. Stop. Stop it. Stop it. Stop.

[azbearsfan]

Not that it adds anything new, but to add to the rantpile. Olsen -- WTF??????? Inexcusable. It wasn't even like he snuck up on you the second time. Unbefnlievable. Orton -- COMPLETE ONE DAMN DOWNFIELD PASS. Don't throw that wr screen for the millionth time when they've already been jumping on it. Play calling -- STOP CALLING DOWNFIELD PASSES FOR A QB WHO CAN NOT -- CAN NOT -- COMPLETE ONE. You want a game manager, you got one. Now how's about using him like that? Hell, Chad Pennington doesn't keep going downfield every drive, and he's better than Orton. Stop it. Stop it. Stop. Stop it. Stop. Please. Stop. Stop it. Stop it. Stop.

 

 

lol Yeah but if Turner doesn't call down field passes he gets ripped on here. I think its on the NFL QB to complete them. I mean geez, Orton is so good at stepping up in the pocket and was considered for the heisman.

[madlithuanian]

Amen!

 

We keep trying to fit square pegs in round holes...

 

Not that it adds anything new, but to add to the rantpile. Olsen -- WTF??????? Inexcusable. It wasn't even like he snuck up on you the second time. Unbefnlievable. Orton -- COMPLETE ONE DAMN DOWNFIELD PASS. Don't throw that wr screen for the millionth time when they've already been jumping on it. Play calling -- STOP CALLING DOWNFIELD PASSES FOR A QB WHO CAN NOT -- CAN NOT -- COMPLETE ONE. You want a game manager, you got one. Now how's about using him like that? Hell, Chad Pennington doesn't keep going downfield every drive, and he's better than Orton. Stop it. Stop it. Stop. Stop it. Stop. Please. Stop. Stop it. Stop it. Stop.

[madlithuanian]

I don't think the response was that Orton shouldn't go downfield ever... It's just let him stive with what he's good at and go deep every now and then to keep 'em honest.

 

 

 

lol Yeah but if Turner doesn't call down field passes he gets ripped on here. I think its on the NFL QB to complete them. I mean geez, Orton is so good at stepping up in the pocket and was considered for the heisman.

[jackie hayes]

lol Yeah but if Turner doesn't call down field passes he gets ripped on here. I think its on the NFL QB to complete them. I mean geez, Orton is so good at stepping up in the pocket and was considered for the heisman.

Not when the Heisman was being decided, and anyway, Jason White WON the Heisman. It doesn't mean much in terms of deep passing ability.

 

Turner should call long passes for Rex, and a FEW for Orton. But damn, enough is enough. I'd be watching him wind up and I'd find myself already halfway to the fridge for another beer.

 

Edit: And considering how many deep passes he threw, that should tell you how I felt the rest of the day.

[jackie hayes]

I don't think the response was that Orton shouldn't go downfield ever... It's just let him stive with what he's good at and go deep every now and then to keep 'em honest.

Yup.