Orton SUCKS

[DrunkBomber]

Actually, it was Davis, but yeah, you're right. I'm trying to figure out how Grossman got all of these fans to bend over for him. Must be his sex cannon.

Like the hard on you got for Orton? Seriously, look at the lengths youre going to to defend him. This has nothing to do with Grossman, its about an underthrown pass from Orton. I dont care if its Hanie, Quinn, Garcia or anyone in there, I just dont want Orton. I dont care if its not Grossman.

[DrunkBomber]

Because any one with half a brain can tell you are blaming Orton for this pick because of your bais for Grossman.

and youre defending Orton because of your hate for Grossman, no?

[BearSox]

and youre defending Orton because of your hate for Grossman, no?

For as long as I've been here, I have defended both Grossman and Orton when the time called for it, and I have bashed both when the time has called for it.

 

It's no secret that both suck, but Grossman is clearly not the answer and to anyone who thinks so is quite simply wrong.

[BearSox]

Like the hard on you got for Orton? Seriously, look at the lengths youre going to to defend him. This has nothing to do with Grossman, its about an underthrown pass from Orton. I dont care if its Hanie, Quinn, Garcia or anyone in there, I just dont want Orton. I dont care if its not Grossman.

I have defended all players when they deserved to be defended. You are bashing Orton today for no good reason when it is quite simply NOT his fault for the loss today.

 

And wow, what a BS comment you made at the end. I recall a post you made earlier about how that if Grossman was our starting QB we'd be 3-0. Now all of a sudden you don't care?

 

Any non-baised football fan can see that Orton isn't reason for us being 1-2. However, you and all the Grossman homers all find any little thing wrong you can find and tear Orton apart over it.

[DrunkBomber]

For as long as I've been here, I have defended both Grossman and Orton when the time called for it, and I have bashed both when the time has called for it.

 

It's no secret that both suck, but Grossman is clearly not the answer and to anyone who thinks so is quite simply wrong.

So have I. Im on record saying I thought Orton was the man for the job this season and thought he was a better fit for our offense. You think Grossman is worse and I think Orton is worse/ Just know, whether you want to admit it or not, your doing for Orton what you bitch about people doing for Grossman. Youre blindly defending him. I dont think Grossman is the answer either but IMO if Orton is going to throw picks like that we might as well have a guy who can stretch the field in there. I may very well be wrong but were not winning and thats what I care about. If Orton was winning I wouldnt care but he isnt. So Ill say again, I dont care if its Garcia, Hanie, Quinn or anyone, Were not gonna win shit with Orton playing.

[DrunkBomber]

I have defended all players when they deserved to be defended. You are bashing Orton today for no good reason when it is quite simply NOT his fault for the loss today.

 

And wow, what a BS comment you made at the end. I recall a post you made earlier about how that if Grossman was our starting QB we'd be 3-0. Now all of a sudden you don't care?

 

Any non-baised football fan can see that Orton isn't reason for us being 1-2. However, you and all the Grossman homers all find any little thing wrong you can find and tear Orton apart over it.

I said IN MY OPINION that if Grossman was playing we would have won these past two games, especially this one because we had men open down field. Orton played like shit today, if Grossman did I would say it. I know I wouldnt want Grossman playing next week because of Phillys defense, Im saying this specific game. I think Grossman makes that throw to Forte and also makes the throw to Booker. He makes either of those we win. Im not saying if Grossman was the qb we would go 16-0.

[BearSox]

I said IN MY OPINION that if Grossman was playing we would have won these past two games, especially this one because we had men open down field. Orton played like shit today, if Grossman did I would say it. I know I wouldnt want Grossman playing next week because of Phillys defense, Im saying this specific game. I think Grossman makes that throw to Forte and also makes the throw to Booker. He makes either of those we win. Im not saying if Grossman was the qb we would go 16-0.

Wow, talk about a ridiculous post. Yeah, maybe Grossman makes those throse. But have you ever thaught about any of the other 60 or so plays ran by the Bears O and Orton today? You keep bringing up those deep throws, but that's less then 10% of the game right there.

 

And Orton played well today, and you saying he played like shit just shows how much of a bais you have. I'd gladly take a day from Orton where he completes over 60% of his passes, throws us one score (subtract one because of the pick 6), and gives us a good chance to win.

 

I love how you keep forgetting to mention how Davis drops the likely winning catch in OT (he catches, there's a 95% chance we win), and still place all the blame (or most of it) on Orton.

[BearSox]

So have I. Im on record saying I thought Orton was the man for the job this season and thought he was a better fit for our offense. You think Grossman is worse and I think Orton is worse/ Just know, whether you want to admit it or not, your doing for Orton what you bitch about people doing for Grossman. Youre blindly defending him. I dont think Grossman is the answer either but IMO if Orton is going to throw picks like that we might as well have a guy who can stretch the field in there. I may very well be wrong but were not winning and thats what I care about. If Orton was winning I wouldnt care but he isnt. So Ill say again, I dont care if its Garcia, Hanie, Quinn or anyone, Were not gonna win shit with Orton playing.

Blindly defending him? What the freak are you talking about? I saw the game today, and Orton played well enough for us to win. What's going on here is you purposely bashing him to make Grossman look better.

 

I'm always the first one to say it, we need a QB. But my gosh, MSNBC is to Obama as you are to Grossman.

[DrunkBomber]

Wow, talk about a ridiculous post. Yeah, maybe Grossman makes those throse. But have you ever thaught about any of the other 60 or so plays ran by the Bears O and Orton today? You keep bringing up those deep throws, but that's less then 10% of the game right there.

 

And Orton played well today, and you saying he played like shit just shows how much of a bais you have. I'd gladly take a day from Orton where he completes over 60% of his passes, throws us one score (subtract one because of the pick 6), and gives us a good chance to win.

 

I love how you keep forgetting to mention how Davis drops the likely winning catch in OT (he catches, there's a 95% chance we win), and still place all the blame (or most of it) on Orton.

Can we drop the Grossman debate? Ive said 1 million times its only my opinion. Im not sitting here trying to say Grossman is awesome or anything. Im concerned about our offense and right now Orton is the qb. Im not trying to compare every aspect of their games. Youre right, maybe Grossman doesnt make those throws to Lloyd and they dont score at all, who knows? I dont care. Im frustrated because I think we can contend for the division and the whole team did some stupid shit today. Since this is a thread about Orton, Im discussing my concerns with him. Read noots breakdown on the qb position, Im not the only one who thinks this way.

 

For the record, I was also bitching about the playcalling and I even agreed with you about the defense being out of shape. It just so happens this thread is about Orton. Its not all on him, but he played poorly.

[BearSox]

Can we drop the Grossman debate? Ive said 1 million times its only my opinion. Im not sitting here trying to say Grossman is awesome or anything. Im concerned about our offense and right now Orton is the qb. Im not trying to compare every aspect of their games. Youre right, maybe Grossman doesnt make those throws to Lloyd and they dont score at all, who knows? I dont care. Im frustrated because I think we can contend for the division and the whole team did some stupid shit today. Since this is a thread about Orton, Im discussing my concerns with him. Read noots breakdown on the qb position, Im not the only one who thinks this way.

 

For the record, I was also bitching about the playcalling and I even agreed with you about the defense being out of shape. It just so happens this thread is about Orton. Its not all on him, but he played poorly.

finally, a half-way decent post by you

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I think you have to give Orton a lot of credit for the Indy game. He was very mature and did exactly what was needed of him. I don't know if Rex wins that game for us. However, the other two games I think you could make a case that the team wins with Rex. That said, the team could have very well won those games with Kyle.

 

Obviously the Bears didn't win the games with Kyle but it should be worth at least something when you can say that the team should have won the game if (and Kyle's name doesn't pop up).

 

Clearly the offense left some points on the field today and I can bitch and moan a lot about Orton's play but in the 2nd half Kyle stepped up. He still wasn't pretty but he at least delivered completions. Was it a perfect 2nd half, no, I'd probably give him a B- because there were a lot of "poorly thrown" receptions. First half he would have gotten a D- or so.

 

All that said I think its hard to really say how the team would be doing with one guy or the other but I will say this, the last time Rex had a decent rushing attack he turned out to be pretty effective (ie, super bowl season). Still Rex showed enough of why he wasn't the answer which is why the Bears almost are stuck with Orton (unless he's horrendous, which he was in the 1st half) because they have to see if Kyle can do it (the answer is pretty much out on Rex, unfortunately).

[azbearsfan]

I think you have to give Orton a lot of credit for the Indy game. He was very mature and did exactly what was needed of him. I don't know if Rex wins that game for us. However, the other two games I think you could make a case that the team wins with Rex. That said, the team could have very well won those games with Kyle.

 

Obviously the Bears didn't win the games with Kyle but it should be worth at least something when you can say that the team should have won the game if (and Kyle's name doesn't pop up).

 

Clearly the offense left some points on the field today and I can bitch and moan a lot about Orton's play but in the 2nd half Kyle stepped up. He still wasn't pretty but he at least delivered completions. Was it a perfect 2nd half, no, I'd probably give him a B- because there were a lot of "poorly thrown" receptions. First half he would have gotten a D- or so.

 

All that said I think its hard to really say how the team would be doing with one guy or the other but I will say this, the last time Rex had a decent rushing attack he turned out to be pretty effective (ie, super bowl season). Still Rex showed enough of why he wasn't the answer which is why the Bears almost are stuck with Orton (unless he's horrendous, which he was in the 1st half) because they have to see if Kyle can do it (the answer is pretty much out on Rex, unfortunately).

 

 

Actually, the more Indy loses, the less impressive that win is.

 

I do agree that he looked a ton better in the second half, but we have the same problems week in and week out. The accuracy is really bad. If it is not for Lloyd, his numbers are alot worse in three games.

 

Plus, part of what people touted, his ability to avoid the rush and turnovers, was not there today. If he is going to take three sacks and throws picks for touchdowns, what is the advantage to him?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Actually, the more Indy loses, the less impressive that win is.

 

I do agree that he looked a ton better in the second half, but we have the same problems week in and week out. The accuracy is really bad. If it is not for Lloyd, his numbers are alot worse in three games.

 

Plus, part of what people touted, his ability to avoid the rush and turnovers, was not there today. If he is going to take three sacks and throws picks for touchdowns, what is the advantage to him?

I still thought he showed decent presence against the rush. Yes, he took a few sacks where I legitimately thought he could have gotten rid of the ball (or at least thrown it to the side-lines) but I don't think he was that terrible in terms of pocket presence. He definitely wasn't "Rex" like. And this is coming from the biggest Rex backer on the site.

 

You got one thing right though and that is that Brandon Lloyd has completely saved his ass the past two weeks (he's shown tremendous hands). Unfortunately the Bears spent a boatload on Hester and that will prevent them from spending big bucks on a legitimate WR (Roy Williams to go with Lloyd and the few in-house guys such as Bennett would have been tremendous).

 

I really wanted to move Hester this off-season and I can only hope he turns into a WR by next season because if he doesn't the Bears overpaid big time.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Key to beating Philly- use draw plays. The DEs are going to be all over Orton but if we can use draw plays efficiently with Jones and Forte, we'll be okay. The DEs will fly up and a draw will get them guys out of the player. Then it's Forte/Jones + the line against the defense minus 2 DEs. I'll take my chances.

[azbearsfan]

I still thought he showed decent presence against the rush. Yes, he took a few sacks where I legitimately thought he could have gotten rid of the ball (or at least thrown it to the side-lines) but I don't think he was that terrible in terms of pocket presence. He definitely wasn't "Rex" like. And this is coming from the biggest Rex backer on the site.

 

You got one thing right though and that is that Brandon Lloyd has completely saved his ass the past two weeks (he's shown tremendous hands). Unfortunately the Bears spent a boatload on Hester and that will prevent them from spending big bucks on a legitimate WR (Roy Williams to go with Lloyd and the few in-house guys such as Bennett would have been tremendous).

 

I really wanted to move Hester this off-season and I can only hope he turns into a WR by next season because if he doesn't the Bears overpaid big time.

 

 

I fear you are right with Hester. The guy will never be more that a return man. This is exactly why he was moved around so much in college. He can't mentally handle it. Plus alot of his success here is due to the ST coach and his schemes.

 

 

Lloyd has been the best surprise of the offense this season. He has good speed and tremendous hands. I hope we can get him long term.

 

As far as Orton, when I brought up his accuracy issue before the season, I was told reps and training camp will rid him of these. It has not happened so I am concerned.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I fear you are right with Hester. The guy will never be more that a return man. This is exactly why he was moved around so much in college. He can't mentally handle it. Plus alot of his success here is due to the ST coach and his schemes.

 

 

Lloyd has been the best surprise of the offense this season. He has good speed and tremendous hands. I hope we can get him long term.

 

As far as Orton, when I brought up his accuracy issue before the season, I was told reps and training camp will rid him of these. It has not happened so I am concerned.

I think Hester is good, but I don't think he's special. I think the Bears special teams is what makes him special. They do a tremendous job blocking and scheming (Toub is stellar) and that can be evidenced by the success all of the recent return men have had (Vasher/McQuarters/Danial Manning). Prior to Hester getting here, people seem to forget just how great of a return man Rdub and Vasher were. They weren't quite Hester, but they were no slouches and I'd rather have one of those guys returning kicks and the Bears giving 60 million to a guy like Roy Williams (who can legitimately help an offense).

 

Plus Hester could have netted the Bears at least a 1st and 2nd round pick and given the multiple needs that would have been real nice (if not 2 1st rounders). Now the Bears can't trade Hester (the cap hit would be ridiculous).

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I fear you are right with Hester. The guy will never be more that a return man. This is exactly why he was moved around so much in college. He can't mentally handle it. Plus alot of his success here is due to the ST coach and his schemes.

 

 

Lloyd has been the best surprise of the offense this season. He has good speed and tremendous hands. I hope we can get him long term.

 

As far as Orton, when I brought up his accuracy issue before the season, I was told reps and training camp will rid him of these. It has not happened so I am concerned.

The biggest concern is the piss poor accuracy on shorter passes. I expected him to miss a bit down the field but as long as he could hit some of the time it would be okay. He hasn't hit almost any down-field passes and has struggled on the short ones. As a pure passer Orton couldn't hold Rex jock. The problem is Rex has a lot of problems adjusting for blitz packages and in the face of a big pass rush has trouble seeing over the line and thus has problems hitting his check down or making the hot read.

[KiLoc69]

A guy on the Comcast Post Game said it best, " I rather have Good Rex/Bad Rex than mediocre KO/Bad KO.

 

I still think we should give Kyle one more game to show vast improvement. If he doesn't, I'll be backing Grossman again. I like what Rex can do when he has a running game.

[Pixote]

The biggest concern is the piss poor accuracy on shorter passes. I expected him to miss a bit down the field but as long as he could hit some of the time it would be okay. He hasn't hit almost any down-field passes and has struggled on the short ones. As a pure passer Orton couldn't hold Rex jock. The problem is Rex has a lot of problems adjusting for blitz packages and in the face of a big pass rush has trouble seeing over the line and thus has problems hitting his check down or making the hot read.

 

Yep, if we could combine the better traits of the two, we would have a legitimate starting QB.

 

Take Kyle's hieght, his ability to adjust to blitz packages, step up in the pocket, and put it together with the physical skills and accuracy of Rex (especially on passes over 20 yards down the field) and we would have a solid QB.

[DaBearSox]

262, 2TD, 2 int...

 

Bears 88 was this more of the game you were looking for...looks like some Rex stats there.

[madlithuanian]

Does Grossman play on the D line?

 

IMO if Grossman was playing we would be 3-0.