Hester

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Well he's not scoring because nobody kicks it to him. He's just as dangerous as he was last year. I just don't think he'll pan out as a wide receiver. They should just put him on kickoff/punt return duties and forget everything else. That way he can just focus on that. I don't think he gets how to play WR, that's just my personal opinion from watching him.

He almost broke one in the Indy game (first punt) and he had 3 chances in Carolina (including the one he got hurt on) to take one back. I'm feeling one this week.

[azbearsfan]

Fair enough on 2nd down. I go with the more sure thing...but I can see your point.

 

I still do not think Turner is a good coordinator. I think he's mediocre. I don't deny the records set by Kramer. I simply say put them in perspective... 1. That was then, this is now. 2. We were giving up points on D, therefore needed to pass more, thus resulting in more yardage. This current Bears D is a bit different than the Wanny group. I buy facts. I'm just not buying your extrapolation.

 

Again, you seem to miss the point on my comment regarding SB v one and out in the playoffs. Let me spell it out clearly.

 

Scenario 1: Let's say you have access to the future results and know that the bears will lose the Super Bowl. Would you rather have that, or an early exit in the first round of the playoffs? I say yes. #1, coming in second is more painful. At least with a one and done, you can look towards some improvements. #2, historically, teams that lose the Super Bowl suck for a year if not far longer. The Bills and Pats defy that, but the laws of average are not good.

 

Scenario #2: Without know the results of the Super Bowl, would you rather have the Bears go, or be bounced out in the 1st round? I think it's obvious. You hope they go and win. Thinking otherwise is ridiculous. If you do not know the outcome of the big game, you want them in it for sure.

 

I hope that clears thing up for you on my comments. You keep assuming I hope they don't even get a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That is not correct. We're talking about a scenario which is impossible in reality, and that's knowing the actual outcome before it happens. So, the point is somewhat moot.

 

You think I'm some idiot who would rather the Bears lose all their games if they couldn't win the Super Bowl? Again, if we go to Scenario #1...my preference is actually a fairly deep playoff run without getting to the big game and losing it. See Scenario 2 in case you're unsure on what I would think if the SB outcome was unknown.

 

 

I see the point on Turner, but the Super Bowl year the offense was pretty good, passing and running, Rex notwithstanding. His offense flows alot better when he has a QB who can get the ball downfield(Kramer and Rex). We debated the point on Orton's inaccuracies before the season and I believe the Orton camp said that that was due to not getting reps with the first team and all of this. However, Kyle has had all preseason and first team reps and hasn't looked much better. Thats a little surprising considering that his arm and accuracy were considered strengths coming out of college. The real surprise to me was his terrible audibling. I had never seen this, but I suppose its because they are giving him more freedom with the offense. You even had said that he is a smart quarterback with the adjustments and such. I didn't see that at all on Sunday. I'm hoping that part will get better.

 

As far as the losing thing, I just simply disagree. To me it hurts no less to lose the Super Bowl than in the first round. If I had the choice every year of losing in the first round or losing in the Super Bowl, I would choose losing in the Super Bowl every time. I don't know if that is the coach in me or a pride thing, but I believe in doing the best you can always. Thats like wanting to lose games at the end of the year to get a better draft pick. I disagree with that philosiphy.

[azbearsfan]

For the 3rd time- all the times we should have ran with Forte (2nd and 1 and 4th and 1 on that last possession). That is 2 off the top of my head and I'm sure there are other times where we clearly should have handed him the ball but instead threw a 4 yard out to Stone Hands Davis.

 

Those are the two plays Mad and I are talking about. I agree the 4th and 1 is a bad call. I disagree with second and 1. I put that on a qb not being able to hit a wide open guy. Thats not a bad play call. Its bad execution.

 

You said there are all these other terrible play calls? I'm asking you which ones......for the second time.

[azbearsfan]

Well he's not scoring because nobody kicks it to him. He's just as dangerous as he was last year. I just don't think he'll pan out as a wide receiver. They should just put him on kickoff/punt return duties and forget everything else. That way he can just focus on that. I don't think he gets how to play WR, that's just my personal opinion from watching him.

 

 

I actually agree. I dont think he is going to pan out to be anything other than a gimmick player on offense, which is why I didn't want to pay him like a receiver. He is a dangerous player on special teams, but teams can scheme to take the ball out of his hands, which makes him less effective.

[AZ54]

He was never our best "offensive" weapon. He was our best special teams weapon. I said that we should pay him like the best return man ever, but giving him any more money until he has proven to be a legit threat on offense was a waste IMO.

 

AZ54 you are right on one thing. The field position doesn't mean squat if we can't score.

 

 

We call it special teams but a KR or PR is the first offensive play in any drive unless they kick it away. Hester has the most TDs of ANY player on the Bears in the last two seasons. That's offense IMO and just because he does it on PR and KR doesn't change the 7pts on the scoreboard.

 

Every team considers their return team successful if they get decent field position however Hester has changed that expectation for us. I believe it was typical to say above 7yd per PR and beyond the 20yd line on KR was good. Nobody expects Hester to make a TD return every time he gets the ball but everyone thinks it's possible. Hester can return a kickoff to the 30 yard line the opposing team's fans still cheer like crazy because they tackled him.

 

The way his contract was structured he is paid like the best return man in the history of the game and if he can succeed as a WR he'll be paid well for that too. I think it was a fair deal for both sides.

[Mongo3451]

We call it special teams but a KR or PR is the first offensive play in any drive unless they kick it away. Hester has the most TDs of ANY player on the Bears in the last two seasons. That's offense IMO and just because he does it on PR and KR doesn't change the 7pts on the scoreboard.

 

Every team considers their return team successful if they get decent field position however Hester has changed that expectation for us. I believe it was typical to say above 7yd per PR and beyond the 20yd line on KR was good. Nobody expects Hester to make a TD return every time he gets the ball but everyone thinks it's possible. Hester can return a kickoff to the 30 yard line the opposing team's fans still cheer like crazy because they tackled him.

 

The way his contract was structured he is paid like the best return man in the history of the game and if he can succeed as a WR he'll be paid well for that too. I think it was a fair deal for both sides.

 

Well said.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

this is so retarded. what the hell would have traded for hester? Another OL so we can still not pass? some more 1st round picks to waste? I mean seriously, u can see the impact he has on the game. How many punts and kickoffs have gone OB or been short and weve been near the 50? and the blocked punt was totally a result of trying to keep it away from Hester. Teams have learned how to stop him... how friggin strupid

 

That is one thing that I like about you Terra...eloquence. If this had been anyone else, I would have paused to reply however how long we gonna ride this pony?

 

I think it pretty obvious that D. Manning....maybe even R. Davis can do decent returns in the system that Toub has set up. One man a team does not make. What happens when (not if) Hester is lost for the season? Heck, what happens when teams figure out he can't return like he was in the past? I said before the season started that the Bears should have taken advantage of Hester's tradabilty when they had the chance.

 

Sure...maybe a deal for a reputable QB could have been made...say Brady Quinn, for example?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Those are the two plays Mad and I are talking about. I agree the 4th and 1 is a bad call. I disagree with second and 1. I put that on a qb not being able to hit a wide open guy. Thats not a bad play call. Its bad execution.

 

You said there are all these other terrible play calls? I'm asking you which ones......for the second time.

You don't run on 2nd and 1 with the 2 minute warning coming up with your stud RB? Okay, fair enough.

 

And I don't have access to the game, but if it's on NFL Network soon, let me know. There were plenty of times where I said "Why the hell did we just not run the ball there? We've given up on the run game...again".

 

I can't exactly pinpoint plays for you, but if I watched it again, I could.

[azbearsfan]

You don't run on 2nd and 1 with the 2 minute warning coming up with your stud RB? Okay, fair enough.

 

And I don't have access to the game, but if it's on NFL Network soon, let me know. There were plenty of times where I said "Why the hell did we just not run the ball there? We've given up on the run game...again".

 

I can't exactly pinpoint plays for you, but if I watched it again, I could.

 

I dont run it there.

You try a pick up a chunk of yards because you have 3rd and 4th down to run and pick it up.

 

Again the play call was good. We had Davis running towards the sideline wide open. Any other QB in the league hits that for a 20+ yard gain and step out of bounds(assuming Davis catches it lol). Good play call, bad execution.

 

Also in the third quarter, Carolina started putting more people in the box, and playing the short pass. They were sort of daring Kyle to beat us deep. Forte wasn't finding as much running room as he was in the first half. We were getting runs for no gain and such. So we went to the game manager to try and win it for us.

 

I watched the whole game and the only play I had a problem with was the fourth and one call. I was hoping for the play action pass to the TE. But after I saw the replay, one guy missed his block or we would have had the first down.

Yeah, go back and watch it again and let me know.

[madlithuanian]

I follow... I am surprised to see Kyle struggle so. Myabe we'll see an improvement. It's not totally crazy to think it was just a bad game... Overall, I was pretty happy with his audible the last 2 games. But he sure botched it on 3-1. I have no problem letting him make a mistake once in a while as long as he learns from it. My expectations are still low...but my hope is high.

 

We'll just agree to sidagree on that. After that Super Bowl loss, we lost our undefeated mark in SB's for one, and then I was more depressed after a game than I'd ever been since Walter's last game agasinst Washington. All our other losses, hurt...but that one hurt really bad. I don't think your comparison to wanting to lose games in the end is vaild. It's a completely different thing. I want the team to always play their best regardless...and have the starters always start. I don't want to lose playoff games or Super Bowls... I just know losing a playoff game is far less painful for me personally than losing the SB. I'd say for the team as well...last year was not a good hangover in the least.

 

I see the point on Turner, but the Super Bowl year the offense was pretty good, passing and running, Rex notwithstanding. His offense flows alot better when he has a QB who can get the ball downfield(Kramer and Rex). We debated the point on Orton's inaccuracies before the season and I believe the Orton camp said that that was due to not getting reps with the first team and all of this. However, Kyle has had all preseason and first team reps and hasn't looked much better. Thats a little surprising considering that his arm and accuracy were considered strengths coming out of college. The real surprise to me was his terrible audibling. I had never seen this, but I suppose its because they are giving him more freedom with the offense. You even had said that he is a smart quarterback with the adjustments and such. I didn't see that at all on Sunday. I'm hoping that part will get better.

 

As far as the losing thing, I just simply disagree. To me it hurts no less to lose the Super Bowl than in the first round. If I had the choice every year of losing in the first round or losing in the Super Bowl, I would choose losing in the Super Bowl every time. I don't know if that is the coach in me or a pride thing, but I believe in doing the best you can always. Thats like wanting to lose games at the end of the year to get a better draft pick. I disagree with that philosiphy.

[madlithuanian]

I like him as a decoy...

 

I'd like to see him in more spread packages and have him just go deep. That should at least take a quality DB or 2 out of the play and open up the mid-field. Once in a blue moon you astually try for the deep ball...

 

Gimmick stuff is correct. But, it doesn't have to be crazy-gimmicks...I like the decoy element. Fake end arounds,etc...

 

 

 

I actually agree. I dont think he is going to pan out to be anything other than a gimmick player on offense, which is why I didn't want to pay him like a receiver. He is a dangerous player on special teams, but teams can scheme to take the ball out of his hands, which makes him less effective.

[BigDaddy]

Jesus, am I on the right board, Talk about ADD. We start a thread about hester and all of the sudden, the OC is or isn't a bum. Back to Hester. Stop assuming that we wouldn't have gotten incredible value by trading him because even if I was running the place, we would have gotten a ton in return. the Bears would have gotten plenty of value. Second, let's face it. This years Hester sucks compared to last years Hester. Plain and simple. We aren't paying him for last year. We are paying him for this year so by standards, he just ain't cuttin it. He looks dumber this year than any year i've watched him from that goofball saftey that wasn't called in preseason to the last 2 games.

 

We have every right to be concerned about they guy. Hey, give him the benefit of the doubt now that he's injured but don't be so naive to think that now that he's got his money, he doesn't have anything to prove and it's being reflected in his play. The coaches need to keep an eye out for him. He still can't figure out where to line up on offense, he certainly hasn't been a factor in the offense and I know we sure paid him alot of money hoping he would develop into a top notch WR but so far...Zippo, Nada Zilch.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I dont run it there.

You try a pick up a chunk of yards because you have 3rd and 4th down to run and pick it up.

 

Again the play call was good. We had Davis running towards the sideline wide open. Any other QB in the league hits that for a 20+ yard gain and step out of bounds(assuming Davis catches it lol). Good play call, bad execution.

 

Also in the third quarter, Carolina started putting more people in the box, and playing the short pass. They were sort of daring Kyle to beat us deep. Forte wasn't finding as much running room as he was in the first half. We were getting runs for no gain and such. So we went to the game manager to try and win it for us.

 

I watched the whole game and the only play I had a problem with was the fourth and one call. I was hoping for the play action pass to the TE. But after I saw the replay, one guy missed his block or we would have had the first down.

Yeah, go back and watch it again and let me know.

Yeah, and it's evident Orton is inconsistent with that throw, similar to our back-up. So, with the 2 minute warming coming up, why not just go for the 1 yard with Forte after his previous 9 yard run, and call it 58 minutes with 20 yards to go before we were in FG range.

 

I can't watch the game, I just said that. If it's going to be on NFLN soon or something, let me know.

[jason]

lol Why is our OC a b****? Because our QB audibles to crappy plays or because our QB can throw an accurate ball over 15 yards?

 

He wasn't a b**** when Rex was hitting Berrian and co. en route to a SuperBowl and he wasn't a b**** when Kramer was setting passing records back in the 90's.

 

He called one bad play last game and that one would have got the first down except for the rookie TE missing his block.

 

Give it a rest.

 

Actually, az, even during the Super Bowl run, there was quite a bit of criticism directed towards Turner. And let's not forget that the main reason the Bears made it to the Super Bowl was the combination of the Defense and the Special Teams...the offense was along for the ride and chipped in when it could. It was never expected that the offense would carry the team at any moment, but when it infrequently did, that helped out a lot.

[jason]

For instance?

 

I can't go through play-by-play precisely because I don't have a recording, but the play-by-play on NFL.com has him rushing 14 times in the first half (15 but one was taken away by penalty), and only 23 for the entire game.

 

Let's see...

 

14 times in the first half...Bears beating the Panthers...

9 times in the second half...Bears barely lose to the Panthers...

 

A short analysis of second half plays that look like they should have been rushing downs:

1) First possession in the second half: 3-3-CHI 44 (12:22) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Davis. (Short yardage and an incompletion to Davis? Hmmmm...)

2) Second possession: 1-1-CAR 1 (9:25) 37-J.McKie up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. (Lucky result - that play sucks.)

3) Last possession third quarter: 2-2-CHI 28 (1:29) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete deep right to 80-B.Lloyd. (I agree that 2nd and short is often where the chances are taken, but why do it when the RB is doing really well? Most will tell you about the 2nd and short-go long philosophy, but most will also tell you that there is nothing more demoralizing to a defense than getting trucked on the ground.)

4) The last drive: 2-1- (2:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Davis. (You want to know why it was a bad call?? Just check the previous drive for the same result on nearly the exact same play/results.

 

2-4-CHI 35 (3:12) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete deep left to 81-R.Davis.

 

So, I can't rewatch the game, but to me, someone who understands football, and someone who knows that the Bears offensive strength (if any) exists in the running game, those plays don't look good on paper.

[azbearsfan]

Actually, az, even during the Super Bowl run, there was quite a bit of criticism directed towards Turner. And let's not forget that the main reason the Bears made it to the Super Bowl was the combination of the Defense and the Special Teams...the offense was along for the ride and chipped in when it could. It was never expected that the offense would carry the team at any moment, but when it infrequently did, that helped out a lot.

 

 

Most of the criticism on offense that year was towards Rex. And until the Arizona game(and Rex's inconsistancy started) nothing was said about Turner.

 

I never said that the defense was better than the offense that year, but we have had a good defense for alot of years without making it to the SuperBowl. We had an offense that was in the middle of the pack yardage wise and towards the top in scoring. All that with an inconsistant QB in his first injury free year. And strangely enough, because everyone thinks that TJ and the rushing carried the offense, we were ranked 9th in the NFC in both rushing and passing. A far cry from the Jauron days

[azbearsfan]

Yeah, and it's evident Orton is inconsistent with that throw, similar to our back-up. So, with the 2 minute warming coming up, why not just go for the 1 yard with Forte after his previous 9 yard run, and call it 58 minutes with 20 yards to go before we were in FG range.

 

I can't watch the game, I just said that. If it's going to be on NFLN soon or something, let me know.

 

 

Actually our back up QB's strength is that throw...

 

Anyway, the thinking is why not try to pick up a bigger chunk of yards there when you have 2 more downs to run it.

Just because it isn't what you would do there, doesn't make it a bad call.

 

The biggest problem is Orton changing the run 3rd and 1 to the quick pass.

[azbearsfan]

I can't go through play-by-play precisely because I don't have a recording, but the play-by-play on NFL.com has him rushing 14 times in the first half (15 but one was taken away by penalty), and only 23 for the entire game.

 

Let's see...

 

14 times in the first half...Bears beating the Panthers...

9 times in the second half...Bears barely lose to the Panthers...

 

A short analysis of second half plays that look like they should have been rushing downs:

1) First possession in the second half: 3-3-CHI 44 (12:22) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Davis. (Short yardage and an incompletion to Davis? Hmmmm...)

2) Second possession: 1-1-CAR 1 (9:25) 37-J.McKie up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. (Lucky result - that play sucks.)

3) Last possession third quarter: 2-2-CHI 28 (1:29) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete deep right to 80-B.Lloyd. (I agree that 2nd and short is often where the chances are taken, but why do it when the RB is doing really well? Most will tell you about the 2nd and short-go long philosophy, but most will also tell you that there is nothing more demoralizing to a defense than getting trucked on the ground.)

4) The last drive: 2-1- (2:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Davis. (You want to know why it was a bad call?? Just check the previous drive for the same result on nearly the exact same play/results.

 

2-4-CHI 35 (3:12) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete deep left to 81-R.Davis.

 

So, I can't rewatch the game, but to me, someone who understands football, and someone who knows that the Bears offensive strength (if any) exists in the running game, those plays don't look good on paper.

 

 

1) If that is the one where Davis dropped it, then again, the play call is good but the execution was bad. Let me ask you this, if they give the ball to Forte right there and he doesn't get it, who do you blame?

 

2)Ummm that was a rushing play and they scored......for the second straight week.....on the same play. What a lucky play. lol Just because you don't like a call doesn't make it a bad one.

 

3) There is not a defense in the world that would be demoralized by a team running for a two yard first down on the offensive 28 yard line. Second and short is the best D and D in the business, because there are very few calls that are truely bad. If that is the one where he throws into double coverage then, Kyle needs to check down.

 

4) Again. As an NFL QB you need to hit a wide open Davis right there. Thats the bottom line.

 

And I dont really recall the one in red so I will give it to you. So two bad calls in a game is pretty good. IMO.

 

I'm interested, since you are someone who knows football, how many times have you put together a game plan and called an offense at any level?

[madlithuanian]

I think you're being unduly hard on Orton. While we all can harp on his physical skills out thee last Sunday...I thought most his audibles were quite decent, but unfortunatley botched one big one. However, it did not result in a turnover, as close as it was. Turner made 2 botched calls in that time (2nd and 4th...although I understand your thinking that the 2nd down one was not) with time to think about what play to call. Kyle's error was a spur of the moment decision, while Turner had time to ponder his... I fault Turner more for the failure of that series. He did not utilize the tools in hand properly. All pun intended...

 

 

 

 

 

Actually our back up QB's strength is that throw...

 

Anyway, the thinking is why not try to pick up a bigger chunk of yards there when you have 2 more downs to run it.

Just because it isn't what you would do there, doesn't make it a bad call.

 

The biggest problem is Orton changing the run 3rd and 1 to the quick pass.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Jesus, am I on the right board, Talk about ADD. We start a thread about hester and all of the sudden, the OC is or isn't a bum. Back to Hester. Stop assuming that we wouldn't have gotten incredible value by trading him because even if I was running the place, we would have gotten a ton in return. the Bears would have gotten plenty of value. Second, let's face it. This years Hester sucks compared to last years Hester. Plain and simple. We aren't paying him for last year. We are paying him for this year so by standards, he just ain't cuttin it. He looks dumber this year than any year i've watched him from that goofball saftey that wasn't called in preseason to the last 2 games.

 

We have every right to be concerned about they guy. Hey, give him the benefit of the doubt now that he's injured but don't be so naive to think that now that he's got his money, he doesn't have anything to prove and it's being reflected in his play. The coaches need to keep an eye out for him. He still can't figure out where to line up on offense, he certainly hasn't been a factor in the offense and I know we sure paid him alot of money hoping he would develop into a top notch WR but so far...Zippo, Nada Zilch.

 

 

Hey, is this Bizzaro Terra Tor? You write very similar to his style. I like your points...exactly why and how I started this post in the first place. I see you and I agree on Hester's apparent slow slide down. I think we missed our opportunity. But like a few here on this board have said, we have him now and I hope he decides to get his ass off the pine and play the season out. ESPECIALLY given the money he's getting.

[azbearsfan]

I think you're being unduly hard on Orton. While we all can harp on his physical skills out thee last Sunday...I thought most his audibles were quite decent, but unfortunatley botched one big one. However, it did not result in a turnover, as close as it was. Turner made 2 botched calls in that time (2nd and 4th...although I understand your thinking that the 2nd down one was not) with time to think about what play to call. Kyle's error was a spur of the moment decision, while Turner had time to ponder his... I fault Turner more for the failure of that series. He did not utilize the tools in hand properly. All pun intended...

 

I dont think its too harsh to expect our Qb to hit a wide open receiver and read a defense for an audible.

 

I agree that Orton's first half audibles were good, but when you see in the second half that the defense is reading you and calling out your audibles, you have to figure it out.

 

I think an O Cood's job is to put his players in a position to succeed. Turner did that with the second down call and, again, it wasn't a bad one.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its bad.

[jason]

1) If that is the one where Davis dropped it, then again, the play call is good but the execution was bad. Let me ask you this, if they give the ball to Forte right there and he doesn't get it, who do you blame?

 

2)Ummm that was a rushing play and they scored......for the second straight week.....on the same play. What a lucky play. lol Just because you don't like a call doesn't make it a bad one.

 

3) There is not a defense in the world that would be demoralized by a team running for a two yard first down on the offensive 28 yard line. Second and short is the best D and D in the business, because there are very few calls that are truely bad. If that is the one where he throws into double coverage then, Kyle needs to check down.

 

4) Again. As an NFL QB you need to hit a wide open Davis right there. Thats the bottom line.

 

And I dont really recall the one in red so I will give it to you. So two bad calls in a game is pretty good. IMO.

 

I'm interested, since you are someone who knows football, how many times have you put together a game plan and called an offense at any level?

 

I think it just comes down to a disagreement about philosophy. I don't care about the choice of play, I think the Bears as currently built, should run, run, run. Just about anything 2nd and short or 3rd and short should be a run to Forte. If Forte gets stoned, then I blame the entire offense, and the offensive line in general. Just a few yards comes down to execution.

 

I still say the FB dive to McKie is stupid. Forte is a faster, more explosive, stronger runner than McKie. The ball should be given to the #1 RB in nearly every situation. McKie is primarily a blocking FB, not a running FB.

 

You say that the defense wouldn't be demoralized, but you know you're simplifying the situation. One first down? No, not demoralizing. But if the Bears' offense does it over and over? You know that kills the other team.

 

The only thing we agree upon is the fact that Orton should make those throws. I don't like the calls, but if those are the calls then Orton has to throw good balls and make completions.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I think it just comes down to a disagreement about philosophy. I don't care about the choice of play, I think the Bears as currently built, should run, run, run. Just about anything 2nd and short or 3rd and short should be a run to Forte. If Forte gets stoned, then I blame the entire offense, and the offensive line in general. Just a few yards comes down to execution.

 

I still say the FB dive to McKie is stupid. Forte is a faster, more explosive, stronger runner than McKie. The ball should be given to the #1 RB in nearly every situation. McKie is primarily a blocking FB, not a running FB.

 

You say that the defense wouldn't be demoralized, but you know you're simplifying the situation. One first down? No, not demoralizing. But if the Bears' offense does it over and over? You know that kills the other team.

 

The only thing we agree upon is the fact that Orton should make those throws. I don't like the calls, but if those are the calls then Orton has to throw good balls and make completions.

I think that's what I was getting at with the whole thing.

 

AZ- I see where you're coming from, but like Jason said, if we really do "run coming off the bus", then that should be a run there to Forte. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[azbearsfan]

I think it just comes down to a disagreement about philosophy. I don't care about the choice of play, I think the Bears as currently built, should run, run, run. Just about anything 2nd and short or 3rd and short should be a run to Forte. If Forte gets stoned, then I blame the entire offense, and the offensive line in general. Just a few yards comes down to execution.

 

I still say the FB dive to McKie is stupid. Forte is a faster, more explosive, stronger runner than McKie. The ball should be given to the #1 RB in nearly every situation. McKie is primarily a blocking FB, not a running FB.

 

You say that the defense wouldn't be demoralized, but you know you're simplifying the situation. One first down? No, not demoralizing. But if the Bears' offense does it over and over? You know that kills the other team.

 

The only thing we agree upon is the fact that Orton should make those throws. I don't like the calls, but if those are the calls then Orton has to throw good balls and make completions.

 

 

I dont think its as big a difference as you think. I agree we need to run. But I dont think we are equipped to run every time. Although our line is improving, they are not good enough yet to run the ball whenever we want. When the defense starts cheating people in the box, we need to loosen them up. And in that second half of the Carolina game they started cheating people down. Forte started getting stuffed. You have to make people pay for cheating their defense or every other team in the league will do the same thing.

 

I actually dont like the FB play either, but I can't argue with two scores in two weeks.

 

I agree with you on the demoralizing thing. In defenses are stacking the box and we are gashing them for 5 and 6 yards a pop still, then yeah its demoralizing. But we aren't doing that.

[madlithuanian]

Fair enough...

 

I just simply disagree on 2nd. No point in hashing it out further. I follow where you are coming from, but just simply disagree.

 

I dont think its too harsh to expect our Qb to hit a wide open receiver and read a defense for an audible.

 

I agree that Orton's first half audibles were good, but when you see in the second half that the defense is reading you and calling out your audibles, you have to figure it out.

 

I think an O Cood's job is to put his players in a position to succeed. Turner did that with the second down call and, again, it wasn't a bad one.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its bad.