Alaskan's take

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I told Mad Lith some time back that I would write this so here up to this point is what I have. I have been a resident of Wasilla (the town she was Mayor of) for about 3 years now. All told I have lived up here for just over 30 years. I lived in Anchorage for awhile but when my wife and I went to buy a house things were too expensive so we looked to the "Valley" as an alternative. Wasilla is in that area and is and was growing. See my reason above for why that is. Wasilla does provide more of the large box stores and other well known commercial shopping alternatives so you don't have to drive into Anchorage as much. I might add that the drive from Wasilla to Anchorage is about 45 minutes one way. At the time when I moved out to Wasilla it seemed a good idea, but then gas prices took off and well.... Anyhow, the reason I went there was because housing was more expensive and crowded in Anchorage. In Wasilla you could still get a decent house with a couple acres for a reasonable price. I would say that, more than anything, was why Wasilla has been growing. She claims to have been there when that growth spurted, which in part is true. However these aforementioned big commercial stores (Wal Mart, Sears, Sportsmans Wearhouse and other well knowns) were starting to sprout up and paying the taxes associated. Which I understand were more the doing of her predecessor than she.

 

When she ascended to the job as Governor, she was more in the right place at the right time. The previous Governor had been a US Senator (Murkowski) prior to that and when he came to Alaska he apparently forgot that Alaska is more a small town slower pace than Washington DC. He had lost touch. Murkowski came in and started right off the bat with things that people didn't like. He appointed his daughter to his post as US Senator (which rule was changed shortly thereafter) and as you know went ahead and bought a jet for conducting business, much to the chagrin of the constituency. (By the by, the jet was not sold on Ebay..but instead by a broker and for a loss). These things and several other gaffes were common during his 4 year tenure. When Palin came on to challenge for the Governor ship the voters had enough. She ran against a rather popular former Governor who was a Democrat in the general election so I will give her that. But Alaska is no doubt a Republican/Conservative based place. Anyhow, here came this new fresh face with new ideas. I was even starting to like her towards the more recent timeframe (I didn't vote for her initially). Until the recent "Troopergate" fiasco that is. The gent, Walt Monegan, that she had appointed as Commissioner was the former Chief of Police for Anchroage Police Department. The largest in the state at about 300 or so officers. He is also a respected figure not just in Anchorage but also in all of Alaska. When things got to where she didn't want him any longer in office she did offer him a job elsewhere in her cabinet but he declined. If you want current updates on how this is going from a local source go to Local news.

 

So now she is in the limelight as a VP contender. There was a letter recently written by another Wasilla resident that is making the rounds on the internet. It has a lot more information of the inner workings and gives you a perspective of someone that knows Palin more one on one. Kilkenny's letter. Lots of other good info on there too.

 

Take a look at these two links and let me know if there is anything else you are curious about. Interesting stuff for sure.

[madlithuanian]

Grizz,

 

Thanks for the write-up! It's good to hear a "local" perspective. Very interesting stufff... I will check out those links.

 

I told Mad Lith some time back that I would write this so here up to this point is what I have. I have been a resident of Wasilla (the town she was Mayor of) for about 3 years now. All told I have lived up here for just over 30 years. I lived in Anchorage for awhile but when my wife and I went to buy a house things were too expensive so we looked to the "Valley" as an alternative. Wasilla is in that area and is and was growing. See my reason above for why that is. Wasilla does provide more of the large box stores and other well known commercial shopping alternatives so you don't have to drive into Anchorage as much. I might add that the drive from Wasilla to Anchorage is about 45 minutes one way. At the time when I moved out to Wasilla it seemed a good idea, but then gas prices took off and well.... Anyhow, the reason I went there was because housing was more expensive and crowded in Anchorage. In Wasilla you could still get a decent house with a couple acres for a reasonable price. I would say that, more than anything, was why Wasilla has been growing. She claims to have been there when that growth spurted, which in part is true. However these aforementioned big commercial stores (Wal Mart, Sears, Sportsmans Wearhouse and other well knowns) were starting to sprout up and paying the taxes associated. Which I understand were more the doing of her predecessor than she.

 

When she ascended to the job as Governor, she was more in the right place at the right time. The previous Governor had been a US Senator (Murkowski) prior to that and when he came to Alaska he apparently forgot that Alaska is more a small town slower pace than Washington DC. He had lost touch. Murkowski came in and started right off the bat with things that people didn't like. He appointed his daughter to his post as US Senator (which rule was changed shortly thereafter) and as you know went ahead and bought a jet for conducting business, much to the chagrin of the constituency. (By the by, the jet was not sold on Ebay..but instead by a broker and for a loss). These things and several other gaffes were common during his 4 year tenure. When Palin came on to challenge for the Governor ship the voters had enough. She ran against a rather popular former Governor who was a Democrat in the general election so I will give her that. But Alaska is no doubt a Republican/Conservative based place. Anyhow, here came this new fresh face with new ideas. I was even starting to like her towards the more recent timeframe (I didn't vote for her initially). Until the recent "Troopergate" fiasco that is. The gent, Walt Monegan, that she had appointed as Commissioner was the former Chief of Police for Anchroage Police Department. The largest in the state at about 300 or so officers. He is also a respected figure not just in Anchorage but also in all of Alaska. When things got to where she didn't want him any longer in office she did offer him a job elsewhere in her cabinet but he declined. If you want current updates on how this is going from a local source go to Local news.

 

So now she is in the limelight as a VP contender. There was a letter recently written by another Wasilla resident that is making the rounds on the internet. It has a lot more information of the inner workings and gives you a perspective of someone that knows Palin more one on one. Kilkenny's letter. Lots of other good info on there too.

 

Take a look at these two links and let me know if there is anything else you are curious about. Interesting stuff for sure.

[CrackerDog]

Kilkenny's letter. Lots of other good info on there too.

 

I just got this letter emailed to me by my dad. What's unusual about that? He's a guy who votes Republican almost 100% of the time. Seems this Palin pick is having an undesired impact for old Johnny.

 

At least the problems of the week got us talking about substantive issues. No surprise, when that happened, Obama killed McCain. The worst thing that could've happened for the old man was for Americans to start focusing on the economy. He wants this to be about Piggy Palin.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I just got this letter emailed to me by my dad. What's unusual about that? He's a guy who votes Republican almost 100% of the time. Seems this Palin pick is having an undesired impact for old Johnny.

 

At least the problems of the week got us talking about substantive issues. No surprise, when that happened, Obama killed McCain. The worst thing that could've happened for the old man was for Americans to start focusing on the economy. He wants this to be about Piggy Palin.

 

 

Yeah, it is pretty obvious (at least to me) that as long as Obama concentrates on the issues he really can't go wrong. I actually heard Karl "Satan" Rove say the other day that he thinks Palin is a flash in the pan. I agree, her appeal is wearing off as people start to figure her out. I am glad that the general American public is doing it quicker than my fellow Alaskans have and are.

 

If you haven't been paying attention the Troopergate incident up here is being basically stalled as more and more people refuse to testify. Not all of the ones expected on Friday had subpeonas but that sounds as thought it will change this week. This is really a sad thing as Palin promised cooperation at the start but since joining McCain, nothing but interference.

[CrackerDog]

If you haven't been paying attention the Troopergate incident up here is being basically stalled as more and more people refuse to testify. Not all of the ones expected on Friday had subpeonas but that sounds as thought it will change this week. This is really a sad thing as Palin promised cooperation at the start but since joining McCain, nothing but interference.

 

Well, hopefully you'll have her back in 6 weeks to face the music. To me this sounds like something she could end up in jail for doing. Clearly there's a breach of her oath of office and it sounds like she hasn't exactly made a lot of friends. I know her approval rating was high but these new stories coming out about her might just empower a few of the people she's stepped on along the way.

 

If McCain wins, this stuff about Sarah won't see the light of day in Alaska or anywhere else. Republicans have a way of making their crimes disappear.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I just got this letter emailed to me by my dad. What's unusual about that? He's a guy who votes Republican almost 100% of the time. Seems this Palin pick is having an undesired impact for old Johnny.

 

At least the problems of the week got us talking about substantive issues. No surprise, when that happened, Obama killed McCain. The worst thing that could've happened for the old man was for Americans to start focusing on the economy. He wants this to be about Piggy Palin.

I'll bite. I'm curious as to how increased capital gains taxes, a change in the capital gains surrounding real estate (250K gain without tax for a single person, 500K for married is what it currently is, but Obama is proposing to get rid of that), as well as a repeal in Bush's tax plan is going to "help" the economy. I'm not proud of where the free spending republicans went but McCain (as much as I dislike him) seems to have a much better head on his shoulders when it comes to business and seems to be much more in the old of the traditional "fiscally responsible" conservative.

 

In fact, if you ever get into the politics of the matter both Palin and McCain would blow Obama out of the water. He has no true accomplishments to point to. Although I will give him credit to be the best political speaker not named Bill Clinton.

[CrackerDog]

I'll bite. I'm curious as to how increased capital gains taxes, a change in the capital gains surrounding real estate (250K gain without tax for a single person, 500K for married is what it currently is, but Obama is proposing to get rid of that), as well as a repeal in Bush's tax plan is going to "help" the economy. I'm not proud of where the free spending republicans went but McCain (as much as I dislike him) seems to have a much better head on his shoulders when it comes to business and seems to be much more in the old of the traditional "fiscally responsible" conservative.

 

In fact, if you ever get into the politics of the matter both Palin and McCain would blow Obama out of the water. He has no true accomplishments to point to. Although I will give him credit to be the best political speaker not named Bill Clinton.

 

You're a typical Republican apologist. Obama has plenty of accomplishment in the last twenty years and significant accomplishment in the senate even though his time there has been short. If you care to educate yourself the facts are available at his web site. But you won't do that because you're already satisfied. Your life hasn't been screwed up by this President and his party. Look around you. And if you think McCain is different than Bush and you're asking me to just "trust you" that he'll be, I'll just say that plenty of you guys said the same thing 8 years ago. The same folks who gave us the worst President ever are now suggesting we overlook their complete failure and give them a whirl at fixing everything they hosed up in the first place. Sorry, I'm not stupid.

 

Your boy stands for one thing one day and another the next. He cried about ugly politics but his ads are horribly misleading. His stance on almost everything changed when he became the Repug frontrunner. His pick of Palin was purely political; Obama selected someone who could help him govern. See the difference? One is an adult and the other is Karl Rove's bastard child.

 

You boy spearheaded every effort to gut regulations that protected our financial institutions. Now we've already given away a half trillion and there's another $700 billion on the way. You dopes always talk about tax policy because you're ME ME ME about what hits your bank account. But you fail miserably to look at the big picture. What about the TRILLION dollars? Do you think some magic fairy comes out with a wand and it just disappears? YOU and your outlook on life and politics, your votes, your party have led us into this mess. And now someone has to pay for it all. Will it be those who most benefitted? HELL NO, it'll be the ferkin' middle class while the folks who spend money buying the Republican Party, as an insurance policy to cover for their crimes, continue to trick people dumb enough to vote against their self interest. OMFG!!! He's going to raise taxes on the wealthy! WHO CARES! Giving them all of that extra cheese hasn't meant a damn thing to this economy. We're in the worst shape I can ever recall. The plan from Bush, give the wealthy more money. That's where it stopped! In Reagan's day, he worked with a Democratic Congress to shape and target the money into places that helped build our economy. And I know McCain isn't Bush but he hasn't offered one plan different than your boy W. He himself said he's clueless on the economy. Meanwhile Obama has been out there offering specific plans and working with his economic advisors every day.

 

One man is ready for this job and the other is John McCain. He's not the same man he was. He's lost. He's old. He has NO ideas. We can't wait around for another 4 years as this country fails further into the chaos your team has created. Nothing is better off than it was 8 years ago. NOT ONE THING.

 

And I haven't even talked about the war yet. How many trillions should we spend on a mistake? Should this country continue to pay for YOUR error in judgment, sending a moron to the Presidency in the first place? Should I have to throw my son into the meat grinder for this Commander in Chief because you want a few extra dollars in your pocket? (Borrowed money, I might add.) Everyone who voted for Bush the first time made a mistake. Everyone who voted for Bush the second time is a Judas. Your few extra dollars is BLOOD MONEY. There are more than 4,000 of our finest dead now because you needed a tax cut. You sold this country down the river. You KNEW damn well what this man offered and you voted for him anyway. Oh, wait, I forgot, NOBODY admits to voting for Bush anymore. He's got 20% approval ratings and not even a Republican running for office will touch him with a 10 foot long turd.

 

"Trust me" say the folks who gave us W. Sorry, just apologize and shut the f*ck up. Your opinion is worthless.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

You're a typical Republican apologist. Obama has plenty of accomplishment in the last twenty years and significant accomplishment in the senate even though his time there has been short. If you care to educate yourself the facts are available at his web site. But you won't do that because you're already satisfied. Your life hasn't been screwed up by this President and his party. Look around you. And if you think McCain is different than Bush and you're asking me to just "trust you" that he'll be, I'll just say that plenty of you guys said the same thing 8 years ago. The same folks who gave us the worst President ever are now suggesting we overlook their complete failure and give them a whirl at fixing everything they hosed up in the first place. Sorry, I'm not stupid.

 

Your boy stands for one thing one day and another the next. He cried about ugly politics but his ads are horribly misleading. His stance on almost everything changed when he became the Repug frontrunner. His pick of Palin was purely political; Obama selected someone who could help him govern. See the difference? One is an adult and the other is Karl Rove's bastard child.

 

You boy spearheaded every effort to gut regulations that protected our financial institutions. Now we've already given away a half trillion and there's another $700 billion on the way. You dopes always talk about tax policy because you're ME ME ME about what hits your bank account. But you fail miserably to look at the big picture. What about the TRILLION dollars? Do you think some magic fairy comes out with a wand and it just disappears? YOU and your outlook on life and politics, your votes, your party have led us into this mess. And now someone has to pay for it all. Will it be those who most benefitted? HELL NO, it'll be the ferkin' middle class while the folks who spend money buying the Republican Party, as an insurance policy to cover for their crimes, continue to trick people dumb enough to vote against their self interest. OMFG!!! He's going to raise taxes on the wealthy! WHO CARES! Giving them all of that extra cheese hasn't meant a damn thing to this economy. We're in the worst shape I can ever recall. The plan from Bush, give the wealthy more money. That's where it stopped! In Reagan's day, he worked with a Democratic Congress to shape and target the money into places that helped build our economy. And I know McCain isn't Bush but he hasn't offered one plan different than your boy W. He himself said he's clueless on the economy. Meanwhile Obama has been out there offering specific plans and working with his economic advisors every day.

 

One man is ready for this job and the other is John McCain. He's not the same man he was. He's lost. He's old. He has NO ideas. We can't wait around for another 4 years as this country fails further into the chaos your team has created. Nothing is better off than it was 8 years ago. NOT ONE THING.

 

And I haven't even talked about the war yet. How many trillions should we spend on a mistake? Should this country continue to pay for YOUR error in judgment, sending a moron to the Presidency in the first place? Should I have to throw my son into the meat grinder for this Commander in Chief because you want a few extra dollars in your pocket? (Borrowed money, I might add.) Everyone who voted for Bush the first time made a mistake. Everyone who voted for Bush the second time is a Judas. Your few extra dollars is BLOOD MONEY. There are more than 4,000 of our finest dead now because you needed a tax cut. You sold this country down the river. You KNEW damn well what this man offered and you voted for him anyway. Oh, wait, I forgot, NOBODY admits to voting for Bush anymore. He's got 20% approval ratings and not even a Republican running for office will touch him with a 10 foot long turd.

 

"Trust me" say the folks who gave us W. Sorry, just apologize and shut the f*ck up. Your opinion is worthless.

The people Obama's economic policies are going to hit the hardest are the middle class. His policies will further worsen the recession (pulling money from individuals as well as businesses) and this will actually lead to further layoffs and a general poor economy. I also find it absolutely hillarious that the republicans are getting blamed for this financial mess (Fannie/Freddie/Banks). That mess falls on the banks who did a terrible job and if you want to blame someone, blame the republicans and the democrats because neither of them did anything. In fact, if you really want to blame someone blame Greenspan who continued to spew stupid shit about the lack of a housing bubble and who actually encouraged lenders to go out and offer some of these dumbass products which were inevitably going to fail once real estate prices tanked.

 

You talk about the rich who gets effected but I'm looking at myself. I'm a 25 year old whose a few years out of college. I certainly am not rich, yet, Obama's policy would cost me an extra few thousand out of my pocket. And for what, so I can have a national health care system as opposed to one by my choice which is managed by businesses. The cost of a national health care would be very expensive on the individual taxpayer (much more than any of us currently pay).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer health care to those less fortunate. I would want every single person under 18 to have health care as well as a program set up to ensure that every single working mom would have health care (ie a single mom or single dad who doesn't make enough money to even feed there kids shouldn't have to worry about health care, they should have it so they can stay healthy and do everything they can to work and support the family).

 

Also, I realize it's the cool thing to blame Bush on the war but the reality is that the president isn't the only one who made that decision. Sure Bush was the figure-head and was one of the prominent players behind the war but last I looked the senate and house had to approve such items and those plans went through with bipartisian support (ie, Democratic & Republican approval).

 

Please tell me about Obama's 20 year record. He has served in the senate since 1997 (11 yrs). Prior to that his only public type of experience was as a community organize for roughly 3 years. I give him credit. He's had some tremendous personal accomplishments, going all the way from community organizer to the democratic nominee for President.

 

I'm curious though cracker as to what his "significant" accomplishments were in the senate? I don't recall him being involved in any significant piece of legistation.

 

McCain has been involved in the following (and by involved I mean actually had a lot to do with):

- Indian Gaming Regulatory Act

- Gramm Rudman Legislation (This enforced automatic spending cuts in the case of budget deficits)

- McCain/Feingold Bill (Campaign Financing; In addition it also shows his willingness to be bi-partisan (Feingold is a D)

- Line Item Veto Act of 1996 (Presidential Power to Veto Spending Items; Yes, he was for a policy that would give current president Bill Clinton veto power)

 

 

He's also served on numerous committees and has stood out on his own from the republican party to support ideas which he believed in (despite the republican base not feeling the same way). As far as I'm concerned, aside from his boringness on the podium, the guy has shown a tremendous number of qualities you'd like to see out of a leader, including the willingness to work with others and to stand out on a limb based upon what he believes.

[DrunkBomber]

The people Obama's economic policies are going to hit the hardest are the middle class. His policies will further worsen the recession (pulling money from individuals as well as businesses) and this will actually lead to further layoffs and a general poor economy. I also find it absolutely hillarious that the republicans are getting blamed for this financial mess (Fannie/Freddie/Banks). That mess falls on the banks who did a terrible job and if you want to blame someone, blame the republicans and the democrats because neither of them did anything. In fact, if you really want to blame someone blame Greenspan who continued to spew stupid shit about the lack of a housing bubble and who actually encouraged lenders to go out and offer some of these dumbass products which were inevitably going to fail once real estate prices tanked.

 

You talk about the rich who gets effected but I'm looking at myself. I'm a 25 year old whose a few years out of college. I certainly am not rich, yet, Obama's policy would cost me an extra few thousand out of my pocket. And for what, so I can have a national health care system as opposed to one by my choice which is managed by businesses. The cost of a national health care would be very expensive on the individual taxpayer (much more than any of us currently pay).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer health care to those less fortunate. I would want every single person under 18 to have health care as well as a program set up to ensure that every single working mom would have health care (ie a single mom or single dad who doesn't make enough money to even feed there kids shouldn't have to worry about health care, they should have it so they can stay healthy and do everything they can to work and support the family).

 

Also, I realize it's the cool thing to blame Bush on the war but the reality is that the president isn't the only one who made that decision. Sure Bush was the figure-head and was one of the prominent players behind the war but last I looked the senate and house had to approve such items and those plans went through with bipartisian support (ie, Democratic & Republican approval).

 

Please tell me about Obama's 20 year record. He has served in the senate since 1997 (11 yrs). Prior to that his only public type of experience was as a community organize for roughly 3 years. I give him credit. He's had some tremendous personal accomplishments, going all the way from community organizer to the democratic nominee for President.

 

I'm curious though cracker as to what his "significant" accomplishments were in the senate? I don't recall him being involved in any significant piece of legistation.

 

McCain has been involved in the following (and by involved I mean actually had a lot to do with):

- Indian Gaming Regulatory Act

- Gramm Rudman Legislation (This enforced automatic spending cuts in the case of budget deficits)

- McCain/Feingold Bill (Campaign Financing; In addition it also shows his willingness to be bi-partisan (Feingold is a D)

- Line Item Veto Act of 1996 (Presidential Power to Veto Spending Items; Yes, he was for a policy that would give current president Bill Clinton veto power)

 

 

He's also served on numerous committees and has stood out on his own from the republican party to support ideas which he believed in (despite the republican base not feeling the same way). As far as I'm concerned, aside from his boringness on the podium, the guy has shown a tremendous number of qualities you'd like to see out of a leader, including the willingness to work with others and to stand out on a limb based upon what he believes.

Excellent post, I cant wait for the response. Its going to be something along the lines of you individually being blamed for the war and the economy.

[madlithuanian]

Good points on the economics of it...

 

As I am a Libertarian, most of what you mention follows the general anti-socialism philosophy I generally adhere to. There are certain elements in place already that makes a true market society kind of a pipe dream. But, we needs to proceed with extreme caution when government is doing something for us...

 

However, you point out the things McCain's done, yet you forget one very important thing...he's one of the Keating 5.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

 

It's not only a cool thing to blame Bush for the "war". it's also 100% correct. He is the commander-in-chief. You can call him a figurehead, but his small head figured in a lot of the lies that got us into this "war" that many of our fine young men and women are paying dearly for. Congress sure screwed the pooch stopping it, but it was railroaded through Congress by Bush labeling anyone opposed at unpatriotic in a McCarthy-esque fashion. And at the time, weren't we all fooled into thinking Iraq had weapons of mass destruction by the Bush admin? It is a blatant falsehood and he should be impeached immediately. It is more anti-American to blatantly and venhemently disregard the US Constitution as GW Bush has done time and time again.

 

Thankfully, McCain is not Bush. But unfortunately, he's not too far removed.

 

 

 

 

The people Obama's economic policies are going to hit the hardest are the middle class. His policies will further worsen the recession (pulling money from individuals as well as businesses) and this will actually lead to further layoffs and a general poor economy. I also find it absolutely hillarious that the republicans are getting blamed for this financial mess (Fannie/Freddie/Banks). That mess falls on the banks who did a terrible job and if you want to blame someone, blame the republicans and the democrats because neither of them did anything. In fact, if you really want to blame someone blame Greenspan who continued to spew stupid shit about the lack of a housing bubble and who actually encouraged lenders to go out and offer some of these dumbass products which were inevitably going to fail once real estate prices tanked.

 

You talk about the rich who gets effected but I'm looking at myself. I'm a 25 year old whose a few years out of college. I certainly am not rich, yet, Obama's policy would cost me an extra few thousand out of my pocket. And for what, so I can have a national health care system as opposed to one by my choice which is managed by businesses. The cost of a national health care would be very expensive on the individual taxpayer (much more than any of us currently pay).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer health care to those less fortunate. I would want every single person under 18 to have health care as well as a program set up to ensure that every single working mom would have health care (ie a single mom or single dad who doesn't make enough money to even feed there kids shouldn't have to worry about health care, they should have it so they can stay healthy and do everything they can to work and support the family).

 

Also, I realize it's the cool thing to blame Bush on the war but the reality is that the president isn't the only one who made that decision. Sure Bush was the figure-head and was one of the prominent players behind the war but last I looked the senate and house had to approve such items and those plans went through with bipartisian support (ie, Democratic & Republican approval).

 

Please tell me about Obama's 20 year record. He has served in the senate since 1997 (11 yrs). Prior to that his only public type of experience was as a community organize for roughly 3 years. I give him credit. He's had some tremendous personal accomplishments, going all the way from community organizer to the democratic nominee for President.

 

I'm curious though cracker as to what his "significant" accomplishments were in the senate? I don't recall him being involved in any significant piece of legistation.

 

McCain has been involved in the following (and by involved I mean actually had a lot to do with):

- Indian Gaming Regulatory Act

- Gramm Rudman Legislation (This enforced automatic spending cuts in the case of budget deficits)

- McCain/Feingold Bill (Campaign Financing; In addition it also shows his willingness to be bi-partisan (Feingold is a D)

- Line Item Veto Act of 1996 (Presidential Power to Veto Spending Items; Yes, he was for a policy that would give current president Bill Clinton veto power)

 

 

He's also served on numerous committees and has stood out on his own from the republican party to support ideas which he believed in (despite the republican base not feeling the same way). As far as I'm concerned, aside from his boringness on the podium, the guy has shown a tremendous number of qualities you'd like to see out of a leader, including the willingness to work with others and to stand out on a limb based upon what he believes.

[CrackerDog]

The people Obama's economic policies are going to hit the hardest are the middle class. His policies will further worsen the recession

 

Yeah, like happened when Bill Clinton was President. Oh, wait...

 

That mess falls on the banks who did a terrible job and if you want to blame someone, blame the republicans and the democrats because neither of them did anything. In fact, if you really want to blame someone blame Greenspan who continued to spew stupid shit about the lack of a housing bubble and who actually encouraged lenders to go out and offer some of these dumbass products which were inevitably going to fail once real estate prices tanked.

 

Greenspan certainly has some blame as well. The party in power and the party pushing for massive deregulation for the last 3 decades also shares the blame. McCain's #1 guy taking money to lobby for Fanny and Freddy up until a month ago... Woops.

 

You talk about the rich who gets effected but I'm looking at myself. I'm a 25 year old whose a few years out of college. I certainly am not rich, yet, Obama's policy would cost me an extra few thousand out of my pocket. And for what, so I can have a national health care system as opposed to one by my choice which is managed by businesses. The cost of a national health care would be very expensive on the individual taxpayer (much more than any of us currently pay).

 

Your comment on rising taxes for you by a few thousand is a lie unless you make a lot more than the average 25 year old. And you don't understand that we're already spending a higher percentage of our GDP on health care than any other nation in the world and leaving out 40 million people. In other words, you're all for an elite program that provides rather poor service. Trust me, I have what most would consider an excellent policy (Aetna PPO) and they disappear when the going gets tough on some pretty important things.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer health care to those less fortunate.

 

That's swell of you. The Republicans don't agree with you. Perhaps you ought to read up on a few things son. Put that education you have to use rather than just being a sheep.

 

Also, I realize it's the cool thing to blame Bush on the war but the reality is that the president isn't the only one who made that decision. Sure Bush was the figure-head and was one of the prominent players behind the war but last I looked the senate and house had to approve such items and those plans went through with bipartisian support (ie, Democratic & Republican approval).

 

Yeah, I know, the Dems are to blame for Cheney and Bush lying us into the war.

 

Please tell me about Obama's 20 year record. He has served in the senate since 1997 (11 yrs). Prior to that his only public type of experience was as a community organize for roughly 3 years. I give him credit. He's had some tremendous personal accomplishments, going all the way from community organizer to the democratic nominee for President.

 

I'm curious though cracker as to what his "significant" accomplishments were in the senate? I don't recall him being involved in any significant piece of legistation.

 

Try this for starters. It took me two seconds to google "Obama Accomplishments". Like I said, those interested in this, sincerely, can educate themselves. There are literally hundreds of locations to find out the facts. Www.obama.com is yet another. There's a section dedicated to each issue you could ever want to understand. But you're buying into the "he'll raise taxes on the middle class" bullshit lie that Fox News or somebody else with an agenda is feeding you. Face it, you have no interest in knowing the truth.

 

McCain has been involved in the following (and by involved I mean actually had a lot to do with):

 

McCain was a politician I respected for years. But somewhere between losing in 2000 and now, he lost it. His most notable accoplishments, in my opinion, have been to assist deregulation which have now led to two massive failures in banking. And you never did answer me as to where the magic fairy is coming from to pay for the bailouts. There's a cost to incompetence.

 

He's also served on numerous committees and has stood out on his own from the republican party to support ideas which he believed in (despite the republican base not feeling the same way). As far as I'm concerned, aside from his boringness on the podium, the guy has shown a tremendous number of qualities you'd like to see out of a leader, including the willingness to work with others and to stand out on a limb based upon what he believes.

 

LOL! Like his hot temper that even Republican colleges talk about not wanting to see him having his hand on the "button". Like his immediate call for the firing of Cox at the SEC rather than calmly approaching the issue. George Will is no liberal. Perhaps you ought to read his most recent comments on McCain.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you've only further proven my initial comment to you above. You're a Republican Apologist. I hope the country is a lot smarter than you, this time around.

[CrackerDog]

* he's one of the Keating 5.

 

* It's not only a cool thing to blame Bush for the "war". it's also 100% correct. He is the commander-in-chief.

 

* Thankfully, McCain is not Bush. But unfortunately, he's not too far removed.

 

Precisely. If the Dems had the Presidency and the exact same record over the last 8 years, junior here would be mocking the very idea any Democrat could even run in this election. You can debate whether Bush lied us into war although I'm confident he did. The Niger Uranium deal and the outing of a CIA operative as retaliation proves it to me. But regardless, you can't argue the war was well run, planned, etc. That's 100% on the President. And his party had complete control of our government the whole way and they rubberstamped everything. McCain is, if I'm not mistaken, a Republican. Let's see what his votes were... Yep, a rubberstamper, just like the rest.

 

It's time for those folks to own their failures.

[CrackerDog]

Also...

 

As far as I'm concerned, aside from his boringness on the podium, the guy has shown a tremendous number of qualities you'd like to see out of a leader, including the willingness to work with others and to stand out on a limb based upon what he believes.

 

You be the judge. One of these men seems calm and ready to lead, the other is John McCain.

 

Obama on the bailout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sWPYRxb26Q

 

McCain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZG4r-zj2w

[madlithuanian]

I basically agree. They've made their bed, now they need to sleep in it. Hopefully, all of us won't be forced into bed with them again. I'll need too many paper bags...

 

Precisely. If the Dems had the Presidency and the exact same record over the last 8 years, junior here would be mocking the very idea any Democrat could even run in this election. You can debate whether Bush lied us into war although I'm confident he did. The Niger Uranium deal and the outing of a CIA operative as retaliation proves it to me. But regardless, you can't argue the war was well run, planned, etc. That's 100% on the President. And his party had complete control of our government the whole way and they rubberstamped everything. McCain is, if I'm not mistaken, a Republican. Let's see what his votes were... Yep, a rubberstamper, just like the rest.

 

It's time for those folks to own their failures.

[CrackerDog]

I basically agree. They've made their bed, now they need to sleep in it. Hopefully, all of us won't be forced into bed with them again. I'll need too many paper bags...

 

LOL!

 

Hey, a little more on the Keating 5 for those youngsters among us...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAzDEbVFcg8

 

McCain ain't "Mr. Clean".