Wesson44 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Right now what we are is a top team playing not to lose. We have a good if not great defense and the best special teams squad, but our offense is lacking. lacking not because of talent but because of I'll play it safe mental thinking of our coaches. In the NFL you are here to win just look at Denver last week against the Chargers. Did they go for tie with the extra poinf......no they went for two and won the game. I ask you if you get off the bus running and it has worked well why don't you spin off that. MeaningPlay action passes. Lining up in the Shotgun is just telling the defense you are going to throw the ball it some point. Lovie and Turner..whoever is calling the plays need to think about what it is they are trying to do win or keep from losing. What the devil are you throwing a 1 yard quick pass when the corner is sitting on the route? Are you trying to get the ball picked off? How about using the stop and go with a pump fake.....seems to work alot to me. If Moose could get open using it then think what Hester or davis/Bradley Booker could do. I'm sorry I love this team but it seems like the coaches are letting this talent we have go to waste. We should be 2-0 with games like the Bucs, Philly, Lions, Falcons Vikings, Lions, Titans coming up. Out of the fisrt nine games we sholud be 7-2 and I said that Colts and Eagles would be the teams that would beat us. We beat the Colts so 8-1 is what we should be after nine, but we can still be 7-2. and 8-1 for than matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Wesson relax man! This is just two weeks into the season and the Bears just played two tough teams on the road.Did you actually have them 2 and 0 after the first two games or 1 and 1? Now they come home after starting off with two straight road games for the first time since moving to Soldier Field in the 70's.Now they have a chance to play two games at home and they are facing a team that might have a little termoil going on in Tampa.After how Garcia played last season for the Bucs I don't understand the thinking of replacing him with Griese but, I'm not mad about it because I think Garcia would have caused the Bears problems with his mobility. So after two weeks the Vikings who a lot of the talking heads pick to win the NFC North are 0 and 2 the Lions who every one thinks should be a playoff team is 0 and 2,while the Bears and the Packers are 2-0 and 1-1 respectively. I like our chances this week with this defense going up against John Gruden's offense.If we can continue to stop the run like we did the first two games I don't see Griese being able to be the Bears by himself.He has always been a guy who could put up some decent stats but tends to have crucial turnovers when the game is on the line.If the Bears get some hits on him early in the game he will start throwing the ball up for grabs.We witnessed this very thing last season which is why the Bears put Grossman back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenom283 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Right now what we are is a top team playing not to lose. We have a good if not great defense and the best special teams squad, but our offense is lacking. lacking not because of talent but because of I'll play it safe mental thinking of our coaches. In the NFL you are here to win just look at Denver last week against the Chargers. Did they go for tie with the extra poinf......no they went for two and won the game. I ask you if you get off the bus running and it has worked well why don't you spin off that. MeaningPlay action passes. Lining up in the Shotgun is just telling the defense you are going to throw the ball it some point. Lovie and Turner..whoever is calling the plays need to think about what it is they are trying to do win or keep from losing. What the devil are you throwing a 1 yard quick pass when the corner is sitting on the route? Are you trying to get the ball picked off? How about using the stop and go with a pump fake.....seems to work alot to me. If Moose could get open using it then think what Hester or davis/Bradley Booker could do. I'm sorry I love this team but it seems like the coaches are letting this talent we have go to waste. We should be 2-0 with games like the Bucs, Philly, Lions, Falcons Vikings, Lions, Titans coming up. Out of the fisrt nine games we sholud be 7-2 and I said that Colts and Eagles would be the teams that would beat us. We beat the Colts so 8-1 is what we should be after nine, but we can still be 7-2. and 8-1 for than matter. I dont mind playing not to lose especially when we dont have an offensive star. We are in the bottom of the NFL in most of the offensive starting categories. We have a WR by committee meaning all of our WR's are mediocre our QB is a game manger that cant complete the deep pass. We found a diamond in Forte and we have an awesome TE duo but you have to play to your strengths, DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS. We have superb defense and for them to be more effective they need to be fresh we run the ball and pick up first downs on 5-7 yard passes eat the clock keep the defense fresh and the Special Teams gives us good field position. I want to see us win every game but we are not built for that, right now we are built for being in every game with any team in the league until we get some offensive firepower right now i think the game plan is correct for the personnel we do have. I think we end up 10-6 or 11-5 and get a wildcard birth by playing not to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Wesson relax man! This is just two weeks into the season and the Bears just played two tough teams on the road.Did you actually have them 2 and 0 after the first two games or 1 and 1? Now they come home after starting off with two straight road games for the first time since moving to Soldier Field in the 70's.Now they have a chance to play two games at home and they are facing a team that might have a little termoil going on in Tampa.After how Garcia played last season for the Bucs I don't understand the thinking of replacing him with Griese but, I'm not mad about it because I think Garcia would have caused the Bears problems with his mobility. So after two weeks the Vikings who a lot of the talking heads pick to win the NFC North are 0 and 2 the Lions who every one thinks should be a playoff team is 0 and 2,while the Bears and the Packers are 2-0 and 1-1 respectively. I like our chances this week with this defense going up against John Gruden's offense.If we can continue to stop the run like we did the first two games I don't see Griese being able to be the Bears by himself.He has always been a guy who could put up some decent stats but tends to have crucial turnovers when the game is on the line.If the Bears get some hits on him early in the game he will start throwing the ball up for grabs.We witnessed this very thing last season which is why the Bears put Grossman back in. IMHO I thought that we could beat the Colts because Manning didn't play a down in the preseason and was rusty and I knew we could beat Carolina but we didn't...with a 17-3 lead in the 3rd period.But to lose on a fourth and one by not giving your team the use of all the players that are making plays com on. Did you see the catch that Davis made for a TD in the pre-season game...and you have thrown him that ball how many times this year in the red zone where there is clearly a mismatch somewhere. Its things like this and the 1 yard pass that gets nothing when the DB is sitting on the route, when you are doing a good job at running the ball and instead of plat action to pass the ball you use the shotgun......just give away the plays already. But I didn't count the Lions or Vikings as playoff teams and the Packers are goging to fold after the game with the Cowboys. Oh who did the Packers beat anyway....you guessed it the Vikings and the Lions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Right now what we are is a top team playing not to lose. We have a good if not great defense and the best special teams squad, but our offense is lacking. lacking not because of talent but because of I'll play it safe mental thinking of our coaches. In the NFL you are here to win just look at Denver last week against the Chargers. Did they go for tie with the extra poinf......no they went for two and won the game. I ask you if you get off the bus running and it has worked well why don't you spin off that. MeaningPlay action passes. Lining up in the Shotgun is just telling the defense you are going to throw the ball it some point. I don't think Lovie would make that call, but it would be because we have a better and deeper defense and not because of any philosophy. Coach Kevlar said he made that decision because his defense was gassed and he didn't think they would get a chance to score if they lost the coin toss. I wouldn't be surprised if Lovie made the same call if our defense was in that bad of shape at the end of a game. Lovie and Turner..whoever is calling the plays need to think about what it is they are trying to do win or keep from losing. What the devil are you throwing a 1 yard quick pass when the corner is sitting on the route? Are you trying to get the ball picked off? How about using the stop and go with a pump fake.....seems to work alot to me. If Moose could get open using it then think what Hester or davis/Bradley Booker could do. First off, that wasn't the play call on 3rd and 1 at the end of the game. Orton checked out of the running play because they had crowded the line of scrimmage and the DB was playing off. Then once he'd changed the play, the defense backed off the line into coverage, and the DB moved up into press coverage. With a more experienced QB and WR, there would have been a sight adjustment by the QB and WR, and the WR would've run a quick slant or something else. I really don't get the criticism of the coaches for play calls that were changed by the QB. I'm sorry I love this team but it seems like the coaches are letting this talent we have go to waste. We should be 2-0 with games like the Bucs, Philly, Lions, Falcons Vikings, Lions, Titans coming up. Out of the fisrt nine games we sholud be 7-2 and I said that Colts and Eagles would be the teams that would beat us. We beat the Colts so 8-1 is what we should be after nine, but we can still be 7-2. and 8-1 for than matter. There's still going to be some growing pains with the offense, but we're headed in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I dont mind playing not to lose especially when we dont have an offensive star. We are in the bottom of the NFL in most of the offensive starting categories. We have a WR by committee meaning all of our WR's are mediocre our QB is a game manger that cant complete the deep pass. We found a diamond in Forte and we have an awesome TE duo but you have to play to your strengths, DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS. We have superb defense and for them to be more effective they need to be fresh we run the ball and pick up first downs on 5-7 yard passes eat the clock keep the defense fresh and the Special Teams gives us good field position. I want to see us win every game but we are not built for that, right now we are built for being in every game with any team in the league until we get some offensive firepower right now i think the game plan is correct for the personnel we do have. I think we end up 10-6 or 11-5 and get a wildcard birth by playing not to lose. I like your post but you say we need to get some fire power on offense. We already have that we just need to use what we have. Ok try this on for size....when did you see Hester go deep? Isn't he one of the fastest on the team? When did you see the Bears use the screen pass to Wolfe...you most people can't catch.Did you see anyone use the three TE set and the bootleg pass out of it during play action.. I know for a fact because I played CB/SS in high school & college that if you are watching the QB and jumping routes, that you can get beat with a double move and pump fake. Do you remember the guy Berrian made fall on the ground with that last year for a wide open TD, and we now use the 1 yard pass to nowhere. We don't have to have STARS as you say, just good play calling and execution with the players we have.And we do have stars we just need to make them shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Wesson relax man! This is just two weeks into the season and the Bears just played two tough teams on the road.Did you actually have them 2 and 0 after the first two games or 1 and 1? Now they come home after starting off with two straight road games for the first time since moving to Soldier Field in the 70's.Now they have a chance to play two games at home and they are facing a team that might have a little termoil going on in Tampa.After how Garcia played last season for the Bucs I don't understand the thinking of replacing him with Griese but, I'm not mad about it because I think Garcia would have caused the Bears problems with his mobility. So after two weeks the Vikings who a lot of the talking heads pick to win the NFC North are 0 and 2 the Lions who every one thinks should be a playoff team is 0 and 2,while the Bears and the Packers are 2-0 and 1-1 respectively. I like our chances this week with this defense going up against John Gruden's offense.If we can continue to stop the run like we did the first two games I don't see Griese being able to be the Bears by himself.He has always been a guy who could put up some decent stats but tends to have crucial turnovers when the game is on the line.If the Bears get some hits on him early in the game he will start throwing the ball up for grabs.We witnessed this very thing last season which is why the Bears put Grossman back in. Oh just for the record I had the Bears after the first nine game at 8-1 with the loss being to Philly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeBears Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Oh just for the record I had the Bears after the first nine game at 8-1 with the loss being to Philly Can you pass some of what you're smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 IMHO I thought that we could beat the Colts because Manning didn't play a down in the preseason and was rusty and I knew we could beat Carolina but we didn't...with a 17-3 lead in the 3rd period.But to lose on a fourth and one by not giving your team the use of all the players that are making plays com on. Did you see the catch that Davis made for a TD in the pre-season game...and you have thrown him that ball how many times this year in the red zone where there is clearly a mismatch somewhere. Its things like this and the 1 yard pass that gets nothing when the DB is sitting on the route, when you are doing a good job at running the ball and instead of plat action to pass the ball you use the shotgun......just give away the plays already. But I didn't count the Lions or Vikings as playoff teams and the Packers are goging to fold after the game with the Cowboys. Oh who did the Packers beat anyway....you guessed it the Vikings and the Lions. Another thing to think about is why, if we were leadin 17-3, did our "superb" defense allow 17 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeBears Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Another thing to think about is why, if we were leadin 17-3, did our "superb" defense allow 17 points? Olsen's fumble and the Panthers usually starting at their own 40 or better. Hard to play an entire game that way and not give up some points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Can you pass some of what you're smoking? LOL no you have to gt your own LOL But just look at who we play Lions x2 Vikings titian ,Falcons, Bucs, Colts(beat them) Panthers (should have won) the Eagles are the team I thought we would lose to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I've been suspect of Lovie for quite a while now... I liked game 1, liked the 1st half of game 2, hated the 2nd half of game 2. We'll see how he does going forward. The first game seemed like a refreshing example of growth as a coaching staff. The 2nd looked like more of the same from last year. (Great start, no adjusments at the half). Right now what we are is a top team playing not to lose. We have a good if not great defense and the best special teams squad, but our offense is lacking. lacking not because of talent but because of I'll play it safe mental thinking of our coaches. In the NFL you are here to win just look at Denver last week against the Chargers. Did they go for tie with the extra poinf......no they went for two and won the game. I ask you if you get off the bus running and it has worked well why don't you spin off that. MeaningPlay action passes. Lining up in the Shotgun is just telling the defense you are going to throw the ball it some point. Lovie and Turner..whoever is calling the plays need to think about what it is they are trying to do win or keep from losing. What the devil are you throwing a 1 yard quick pass when the corner is sitting on the route? Are you trying to get the ball picked off? How about using the stop and go with a pump fake.....seems to work alot to me. If Moose could get open using it then think what Hester or davis/Bradley Booker could do. I'm sorry I love this team but it seems like the coaches are letting this talent we have go to waste. We should be 2-0 with games like the Bucs, Philly, Lions, Falcons Vikings, Lions, Titans coming up. Out of the fisrt nine games we sholud be 7-2 and I said that Colts and Eagles would be the teams that would beat us. We beat the Colts so 8-1 is what we should be after nine, but we can still be 7-2. and 8-1 for than matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 How bout we get a touchdown via passing eh? That would be nice. Get Forte involved in the passing game more since Kyles "forte" (haha no pun intended) is those short passing within 5-15 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 IMHO I thought that we could beat the Colts because Manning didn't play a down in the preseason and was rusty and I knew we could beat Carolina but we didn't...with a 17-3 lead in the 3rd period.But to lose on a fourth and one by not giving your team the use of all the players that are making plays com on. Did you see the catch that Davis made for a TD in the pre-season game...and you have thrown him that ball how many times this year in the red zone where there is clearly a mismatch somewhere. Its things like this and the 1 yard pass that gets nothing when the DB is sitting on the route, when you are doing a good job at running the ball and instead of plat action to pass the ball you use the shotgun......just give away the plays already. But I didn't count the Lions or Vikings as playoff teams and the Packers are goging to fold after the game with the Cowboys. Oh who did the Packers beat anyway....you guessed it the Vikings and the Lions. News flash: was he really going to play in the preseason anyway? If so, would 20 snaps have been the difference? I don't buy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Oh just for the record I had the Bears after the first nine game at 8-1 with the loss being to Philly Why? I have been a Bear fan for over forty years and I have a more realistic view of what they can get accomplished.They lost the leading passer,receiver and rusher from last season and we had no clue who we were going to get production from on offense.We start a new QB and rookie RB plus 2 new receivers .What did you see that would make you believe that the Bears would win their first two games on the road win they haven't done that since 1963? Its okay to be optimistic but if you are a football fan you know the Bears had some major issues after a lackluster preseason and poor season last year.I realistically think 10-6 or 9-7 is an attainable goal for the Bears. BTW Didn't your original post say you had the Bears losing to the Colts and now you say you thought they would win the first two games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Iam sure lovie has nutting to do with schemes on Offense, with the exception of wanting a running game. The defense's best friend is the running game. And Lovie knows that. The longer the O is on the field the better the D can rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I'm sorry I love this team but it seems like the coaches are letting this talent we have go to waste. Exactly what talent do we have on offense? Our best WR was the worst WR on the Redskins roster last year. Rashied Davis has as many big drops as he does big catches. I constantly have to remind people in Arizona where Kyle Orton went to college (he's so famous). Our Oline was constantly berated by the vast majority of the posters on this board until after the Colts game. Jason McKie gets blasted daily by several posters here. Hester has not yet proven he can be a big time WR, though he's better than last year as a WR he's not scaring anyone yet. We do have two good TEs and at this point it appears we have a good rookie at RB. If you are the Bucs Def Coordinator which talent on our roster is keeping you up late? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Man can we get anymore negative? Geez about ready to slash my own wrists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zod Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I'm sorry but two games is not enough to evaluate the whole season. I think everybody is getting caught up in the offense explosion which is happening around the league. I think this wave of thought is promoted by the TV talking heads saying "the nfl today is about scoring." The Bears can't get caught up in this. You may not believe in Lovie's "scheme" but at this point his philosophy of great defense and special teams with no turnovers on offense is what this team is built for. Heck the formula worked for the Giants last year. Give them a couple more games before we rank and file them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I think Wesson44 has a point. This offense does play not to lose, it's pretty obvious but the real problem with that thinking is that sooner or later, in this case sooner, it sends a message that we have no faith in our offense to win a game. Case in point, there were going to be about 54 seconds left on the clock last week at Carolina when they kicked a FG at the end of the first half. Now, knowing we could get decent field position with a good return, why didn't we call time out and let carolina kick the FG and try to score with about 50 seconds left? Because these coaches are scared of this offense. Hey our offense was moving the ball on the ground against this Carolina team early, they have no world beaters in their secondary. These guys were scared we would turn it over again so what do they do? Let the clock run down and take away an opportunity to score. Now, the guys I watch the games with were split. The younger guys who haven't watched this team very long said it was smart move since we were up. (Poor idealistic bastards, they haven't had the 40 plus years of experience watching that kind of offense from the Bears but stick around long enough and even you will start to change your mind about what makes sense and what doesn't.) That thinking only works with Dallas, GB, NE, Indy, SD or Philly but I challenge you to pose that scenario to ANY of those teams coaches and I guarantee you they would have called that timeout and at least tried to score. And, for those of you who will insist that the bears did the right thing based on the talent level of our offense, GET READY FOR ANOTHER 7-9 boys and enjoy it. We lost that game because our coaches will not allow this offense to open up and until that changes, we will continue to aspire to mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Does anyone think the 2007 Pats were only half as good at season's end as they were at the beginning? Because I seriously doubt it. What happened is the rest of the NFL caught up. My point is that you ignore one factor, Bigdaddy. Excluding teams ravaged by injury, teams get better throughout the season. We may not be completely developed right now in this offense of so many new faces, but that doesn't mean it won't come. Someone mentioned that Orton wasn't getting enough reps throwing the long ball during preseason, which makes sense if Turner was more concerned about getting Orton to execute the meat-and-potatoes part of the offense comfortably. I'm also sure there are plays Turner isn't using in games because he sees his offense in practice doesn't execute them the way he wants yet. The season is long and like every team, the Bears have things they need to work on. Over the course of the season, whether we improve more or less than the other teams will determine our post-season chances. This is why some people (like me) on this messageboard don't feel like you can evaluate a team for the year based on 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I also want to add that part of the reason the offense wasn't doing better was that they got bad field positon, and it stayed that way because the Bears D was playing well. If the Bears O starts at the 15yd line, gets two first downs and punts, then the Panthers O gets two first downs and punts, and that just keeps happening back and forth, ...the Bears O is going to continually start on their own 15yd line every time. A variation on this actually happened last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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