On Taxes... Who Should you Vote for?

[CrackerDog]

You can find the calculator here:

 

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

 

For 95% of Americans, their taxes will go down under Obama; if you make over $250,000, you'll pay more. Don't believe Obama? Well, as Parade Magazine points out, if you're really, really, really, rich, John McCain will save you hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

 

If you're really really rich, vote McCain! If not, you'll lose money going with Johnny Square-Jaw.

[ostrogoth]

Communism has never worked in any country in which it has been tried. In practice, Communism—the ultimate goal of liberalism—affords everything to and for the power elite and little to nothing for everyone else. It also does away with the concept of meritocracy—unless of course one is a member of the aforementioned power elite. However, more and more this is what Democrat presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama seems to be proposing.

 

On Monday 13 October, Barack Obama was asked by an Ohio plumber: “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” Obama answered him with: “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around [AKA wealth redistribution], it’s good for everybody.” We have to imagine that Karl Marx would be extremely proud.

 

This ideology is terrible to the U.S. Economic picture because if you take from the rich and give to America’s poor it causes the following occurrences:

 

1. Businesses produce less attempting to stay under the taxation cap, and thus consumer pricing begin to rise, it is proven in previous attempts to change the economic structure.

 

2. Business Owners who are forced to pay additional taxes and have huge families or large home payments will look over their financial structure and layoff employees or move to areas of the country where labor is cheaper and for large firms this can mean other countries, this will further lead to higher unemployment and smaller economic growth cycles.

 

And of course with a reduced labor force by corporations coping with higher taxes, less consumer spending and people change lifestyles and make different choices in spending habits, thus causing workers in low paid jobs to be laid off.

 

3. Individuals which are beginning investment into retirement saving plans will be forced to hide even more money and by hiding this the money will not flow into banks but into “offshore investments.”

 

This situation will further hurt ailing banks facing people losing trust in the monetary system and keeping more cash in the safe at home, some benefits researched can include, however many benefits seemingly outweigh the negatives.

 

1. Asset protection and privacy through an offshore bank or investment account

 

2. Currency diversification

 

3. Higher yields

 

4. Diversified, elite investment you won’t find in the U.S.

 

5. Offshore bankers offer total discretion and free investment advice

 

6. Make profits overseas free from foreign taxes

 

These attractive rates, and benefits will further increase and lure American’s that hold disposable income and fall under the two hundred and fifty thousand and one dollar range of Obama’s tax plan, which is simply disguised Communism.

 

4. By forcing higher taxes and creating more social programs, it is my belief that Obama with his Black Value System is attempting to funnel into the poorest section of America benefit after benefit which is racism in reverse

 

At the same time, civil rights organizations and black politicians did an about-face. They defined the black agenda in increasingly narrow terms: affirmative action, economic parity, professional advancement and busing replaced battling poverty, reducing unemployment, securing quality education, promoting self-help and gaining greater political empowerment as the goals of all African Americans.

 

This left the one out of four blacks who wallowed below the official poverty level, trapped in drug- and gang-plagued neighborhoods. Their children had to go to under served, badly deteriorating inner-city schools that black middle class families had long since abandoned.

 

Lacking education, competitive skills and training, the black have-nots were further relegated to the outer fringes of society.

 

But even though black professionals, politicians and celebrities may be light years apart from poor blacks in their wealth and status, color is hardly a relic of the past.

 

Wealthy blacks fume in anger as taxis speed past and blithely ignore them. They can be stopped shaken down and spread-eagled by the police.

 

They can be subjected to poor or no service in restaurants.

 

They file countless EEOC complaints and lawsuits against corporations for stacking them at the low end in management positions.

 

A sharp economic downturn could dump more than a few of them back into the same crumbling neighborhoods they worked long and hard to get out of.

 

Rich versus poor, progress and poverty. It’s an old tale.

 

The twist is that it can now be told in black America, and of course Obama will try to with his background improve benefits and payments to Blacks along with taxing the American’s that will create the jobs that the Black American’s need,this plan will fail to help Blacks as well as poor Whites, Asians, and Latino’s.

 

Job will become scarce and people will not expand hiding money instead because of higher taxes.

 

These two points alone along with many others are going hurt the U.S. Economy, so you think its rough now wait until Obama’s plans of taxation takes effect, and those of us who own businesses like myself, falling just slightly under but this worries me as I expand, perhaps I will have to reconsider and thus like many will not expand the worker base.

 

The last president to raise taxes when the country had this many economic problems, "even 5% is still a raise", Herbert Hoover, remember what happened tehn?

[madlithuanian]

You are 100% correct, communism doesn't work.

 

However, our current tax system needs a drastic overhaul. I'm not really sold on Obama's plan, but I'm not remotely sold on MCCain's.

 

What needs to happen is a flat tax. No more shelters, no more rebates,etc... Everyone gets taxed the same above a certain poverty benchmark.

 

The rich have far too many loopholes (and I know this from being an accountant), and the middle to poor, have too little.

 

Everywhere you turn, the rich appear to be getting richer. Just look at all the golden parachutes when these multi millionaires run companies into the ground... And the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class is losing ground. It seems to me the old boy network is far too alive and well. Once someone gets to a certain status, they are then lifers. Look at your top dog in your company. What does he/she pay for? 1st he/she gets a huge salary, then his/her lunches are paid for, his/her car is paid for, much travel is paid for, he/she gets invited to various functions that are paid for with all kinds of gifts etc. Granted, many may say that, his/her salary is basically higher due to those perks.

 

I'm a Libertarian, so my gut feeling is to say, it is what it is. But the closer you look at it, much of these salaries,etc...are due to deals with the goverment and or old boys' networks that prevent membership. To me that's not quite free enterprise.

 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what the solution is. I personally want less government, but nor do I want the continuation of what is happening, because if it continues there will be a full on class war...and that's good for no one.

 

Communism has never worked in any country in which it has been tried. In practice, Communism—the ultimate goal of liberalism—affords everything to and for the power elite and little to nothing for everyone else. It also does away with the concept of meritocracy—unless of course one is a member of the aforementioned power elite. However, more and more this is what Democrat presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama seems to be proposing.

 

On Monday 13 October, Barack Obama was asked by an Ohio plumber: “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” Obama answered him with: “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around [AKA wealth redistribution], it’s good for everybody.” We have to imagine that Karl Marx would be extremely proud.

 

This ideology is terrible to the U.S. Economic picture because if you take from the rich and give to America’s poor it causes the following occurrences:

 

1. Businesses produce less attempting to stay under the taxation cap, and thus consumer pricing begin to rise, it is proven in previous attempts to change the economic structure.

 

2. Business Owners who are forced to pay additional taxes and have huge families or large home payments will look over their financial structure and layoff employees or move to areas of the country where labor is cheaper and for large firms this can mean other countries, this will further lead to higher unemployment and smaller economic growth cycles.

 

And of course with a reduced labor force by corporations coping with higher taxes, less consumer spending and people change lifestyles and make different choices in spending habits, thus causing workers in low paid jobs to be laid off.

 

3. Individuals which are beginning investment into retirement saving plans will be forced to hide even more money and by hiding this the money will not flow into banks but into “offshore investments.”

 

This situation will further hurt ailing banks facing people losing trust in the monetary system and keeping more cash in the safe at home, some benefits researched can include, however many benefits seemingly outweigh the negatives.

 

1. Asset protection and privacy through an offshore bank or investment account

 

2. Currency diversification

 

3. Higher yields

 

4. Diversified, elite investment you won’t find in the U.S.

 

5. Offshore bankers offer total discretion and free investment advice

 

6. Make profits overseas free from foreign taxes

 

These attractive rates, and benefits will further increase and lure American’s that hold disposable income and fall under the two hundred and fifty thousand and one dollar range of Obama’s tax plan, which is simply disguised Communism.

 

4. By forcing higher taxes and creating more social programs, it is my belief that Obama with his Black Value System is attempting to funnel into the poorest section of America benefit after benefit which is racism in reverse

 

At the same time, civil rights organizations and black politicians did an about-face. They defined the black agenda in increasingly narrow terms: affirmative action, economic parity, professional advancement and busing replaced battling poverty, reducing unemployment, securing quality education, promoting self-help and gaining greater political empowerment as the goals of all African Americans.

 

This left the one out of four blacks who wallowed below the official poverty level, trapped in drug- and gang-plagued neighborhoods. Their children had to go to under served, badly deteriorating inner-city schools that black middle class families had long since abandoned.

 

Lacking education, competitive skills and training, the black have-nots were further relegated to the outer fringes of society.

 

But even though black professionals, politicians and celebrities may be light years apart from poor blacks in their wealth and status, color is hardly a relic of the past.

 

Wealthy blacks fume in anger as taxis speed past and blithely ignore them. They can be stopped shaken down and spread-eagled by the police.

 

They can be subjected to poor or no service in restaurants.

 

They file countless EEOC complaints and lawsuits against corporations for stacking them at the low end in management positions.

 

A sharp economic downturn could dump more than a few of them back into the same crumbling neighborhoods they worked long and hard to get out of.

 

Rich versus poor, progress and poverty. It’s an old tale.

 

The twist is that it can now be told in black America, and of course Obama will try to with his background improve benefits and payments to Blacks along with taxing the American’s that will create the jobs that the Black American’s need,this plan will fail to help Blacks as well as poor Whites, Asians, and Latino’s.

 

Job will become scarce and people will not expand hiding money instead because of higher taxes.

 

These two points alone along with many others are going hurt the U.S. Economy, so you think its rough now wait until Obama’s plans of taxation takes effect, and those of us who own businesses like myself, falling just slightly under but this worries me as I expand, perhaps I will have to reconsider and thus like many will not expand the worker base.

 

The last president to raise taxes when the country had this many economic problems, "even 5% is still a raise", Herbert Hoover, remember what happened tehn?

[CrackerDog]

What needs to happen is a flat tax.

 

Believe it or not, I'm actually with you on this but think it needs more detail. If you look at my tax burden last year, and I'm going to speak in round numbers so I don't give away too many details about myself, here is about what I paid in taxes last year:

 

As I recall from my tax return, I paid 19% in Fed income taxes

Illinois income tax, 3%

RE Tax - 4%

Approx. Sales Taxes - 5% of my gross income (total guess here)

SS Taxes and Medicare - Approx 8% although probably a little less because...

 

Anyway, if you add it all up, I pay about 37% of my income in taxes. For this I don't get medical coverage (my employer pays for that outside of my portion) but I do have a good school district for my son.

 

My millionaire bosses pay substantially less than 37% (I work in real estate and much of that income is sheltered). So, for a flat tax to work I'd say we all ought to pay somewhere in the middle between what they currently pay and where I am. For this I expect EVERYONE to have a good school to send their kids to and everyone to get reasonable, comprehensive health care coverage. Fair's fair.

 

So, flatten it baby! I get a cut and everyone gets better schools and health insurance. DEAL!

[DrunkBomber]

Believe it or not, I'm actually with you on this but think it needs more detail. If you look at my tax burden last year, and I'm going to speak in round numbers so I don't give away too many details about myself, here is about what I paid in taxes last year:

 

As I recall from my tax return, I paid 19% in Fed income taxes

Illinois income tax, 3%

RE Tax - 4%

Approx. Sales Taxes - 5% of my gross income (total guess here)

SS Taxes and Medicare - Approx 8% although probably a little less because...

 

Anyway, if you add it all up, I pay about 37% of my income in taxes. For this I don't get medical coverage (my employer pays for that outside of my portion) but I do have a good school district for my son.

 

My millionaire bosses pay substantially less than 37% (I work in real estate and much of that income is sheltered). So, for a flat tax to work I'd say we all ought to pay somewhere in the middle between what they currently pay and where I am. For this I expect EVERYONE to have a good school to send their kids to and everyone to get reasonable, comprehensive health care coverage. Fair's fair.

 

So, flatten it baby! I get a cut and everyone gets better schools and health insurance. DEAL!

What do you care anyway, its not like you pay them. You just want hand outs for nothing.

[CrackerDog]

What do you care anyway, its not like you pay them. You just want hand outs for nothing.

 

You really secretly want to date me, don't you?

 

Sorry man, I like girls only.

[DrunkBomber]

You really secretly want to date me, don't you?

 

Sorry man, I like girls only.

Its no secret

[madlithuanian]

I do follow!

 

I'm not 100% on health care as what I see needs more fixing...

 

We're in litigation nation, and too many people sue for jackass reasons. THus high insurances costs are going right onto customers. Also, the govt mandates you can only get treatment by certain individuals, thus jacking up the price. If I get a serious laceration and just need a run of the mill stitch and cleanse, I should be able to go to a nurse or low end med student, pay substantially less, and go about my way. However, govt. mandate I see a specialist with over a decade of schooling etc for this minor thing. Also, when I'm sick, give me a Z pack! I don't need to see a hear surgeon for this! Too much of this gets in the way of truly making costs affordable.

 

Also, I still have family in Lithuania. While socialized medicine has it's benefits, there are certainly it's probblems. Many a time, my relatives will pay extra with vodka (moreso before the fall of the Soviet Union), extra money, etc...basically bribes...to get the best care. Thus resulting in really "not-so-free" health coverage. There are exceptions I'm sure as I have friends in the UK that swear by their coverage. But I also have freinds in Canada who go to the US for the major stuff...

 

Overall, I think we should hold off a bit socailizing medicine. But, I generally think something should be offered to bridge the gap until we find a truly good solution.

 

 

 

Believe it or not, I'm actually with you on this but think it needs more detail. If you look at my tax burden last year, and I'm going to speak in round numbers so I don't give away too many details about myself, here is about what I paid in taxes last year:

 

As I recall from my tax return, I paid 19% in Fed income taxes

Illinois income tax, 3%

RE Tax - 4%

Approx. Sales Taxes - 5% of my gross income (total guess here)

SS Taxes and Medicare - Approx 8% although probably a little less because...

 

Anyway, if you add it all up, I pay about 37% of my income in taxes. For this I don't get medical coverage (my employer pays for that outside of my portion) but I do have a good school district for my son.

 

My millionaire bosses pay substantially less than 37% (I work in real estate and much of that income is sheltered). So, for a flat tax to work I'd say we all ought to pay somewhere in the middle between what they currently pay and where I am. For this I expect EVERYONE to have a good school to send their kids to and everyone to get reasonable, comprehensive health care coverage. Fair's fair.

 

So, flatten it baby! I get a cut and everyone gets better schools and health insurance. DEAL!