Is the D turning on Babich or themselves

[nfoligno]

Reading the post-game quotes, it definitely sounds like our defensive players are "turning", but the question is, are they turning on each other or the staff, or maybe both.

 

When asked about the pass rush, Tommie Harris provides us this,

 

''Do you understand football?'' tackle Tommie Harris said. ''How long was he in the pocket? How long did he hold the ball? Yeah, he was quick throwing the whole time, so something has to give. ''It has nothing to do with pressure. We're not Superman. If he drops back and he's patting the ball, then you talk to us about pressure. But we're doing our job.''

 

Alex Brown added,

 

"When you give up 7-yard passes, 10-yard passes and guys are running free and unblocked ... we're just not getting there," defensive end Alex Brown said. "I'm going to stop here before I say something I regret." Also heard Alex Brown say in an interview (heard it on the Score) We did our job. We stood up when we were supposed to.

 

So are Harris and Brown calling out our CBs, or the coaches who direct how the CBs are supposed to play? Also, regarding Brown's 2nd comment, I have noticed all year that our DL often seems to take X number of steps attacking the QB, then just stop and standup. I guess they are trying to get their hands into the passing lane, but at the same time, they quit on rushing the passer. Never understand that, but really question it after Brown's comment.

 

Vasher seemed to absolutely point the finger at coaches,

 

Vasher mentioned after the Lions game how the league knows how Bears cornerbacks take outside position in the red zone that invites the slant pass. Then Gage beat him on a slant pass for a TD on third down. Why not adjust the scheme if it's so well-known in those situations?

"I can't get into that," Vasher said. "That's a coaching-staff decision into how we play and what we play. We just have to step up and make plays."

 

He went on to also say, ''That's the defense,'' Vasher said. ''That's all I can say really.''

 

Thats the defense. To me, when he says defense, he is talking about the scheme as a whole, not just the personnel or defensive unit.

 

Then you get Mike Brown. When asked about the lack of plays, "I don't know either," Mike Brown said. "I'm a player. I just go out there and play."

 

Again, he is pointing out he is a player and just plays, which to me implies you have to look beyond the players to see the problem.

 

On the other hand, Lovie seems to call out the players, often saying the scheme is fine and the players just have to better execute and make plays.

 

IMHO, we are going to hear/read more and more. Vasher and Tillman are getting grilled in the press, and if they feel the problem is the system they have to work within, I doubt they are going to deal well w/ being made scape-goats. Similar, the more we read about our ineffective pass rush, the more I think we are going to see the DL speak out. This could get ugly real fast. IMHO, the players no longer buy into the system, and do not have faith in the coaches, and comments like the above support that believe. The more and more crap slung this week by the press, i think could cause more and more comments to slip from the players.

 

Hang on. This could be one hell of an interesting ride.

[Mongo3451]

Agreed on the subtle comments made by the players. I still believe you are villifying the wrong guy. IMO - Lovie calls the shots.

[nfoligno]

Hey, I think its both. I think the players are not sold on Lovie's scheme, but also question Babich's playcalling. Watching the games, I do not see Lovie making play-by-play defensive calls. That still appears to be in Babich's control. So I think the players are questioning both the playcalling and scheme, and thus are questioning both.

 

I am not intending to villify the wrong guy. I think both are a problem, and ultimately, I place the blame at Lovie's feet. It's his scheme, and he choose the DC. Worse, he let a successful DC goes, I believe, because he wanted to do things different from what Lovie wanted.

 

If given the choice, I think many players would like to see Rivera return.

 

Agreed on the subtle comments made by the players. I still believe you are villifying the wrong guy. IMO - Lovie calls the shots.

[canadianbear]

Alex Brown added,

 

"When you give up 7-yard passes, 10-yard passes and guys are running free and unblocked ... we're just not getting there," defensive end Alex Brown said. "I'm going to stop here before I say something I regret." Also heard Alex Brown say in an interview (heard it on the Score) We did our job. We stood up when we were supposed to.

 

So are Harris and Brown calling out our CBs, or the coaches who direct how the CBs are supposed to play? Also, regarding Brown's 2nd comment, I have noticed all year that our DL often seems to take X number of steps attacking the QB, then just stop and standup. I guess they are trying to get their hands into the passing lane, but at the same time, they quit on rushing the passer. Never understand that, but really question it after Brown's comment.

 

This is easily the most interesting point I have read in a long time. Urlacher does the same thing on blitzes. They rush for 2 seconds and stand up. Thats when the QB, who has felt no pressue, just picks us apart. It has been extremely frustrating to watch becuase it seems our players are giving up. Are they just "following orders?"

 

What kind of scheme is that? If you dont get to the QB on your first 3 steps then stop, because the QB will be throwing and you should knock down the pass?

 

I hope someone actually looks into this and finds out what is going one. I would love Babich to explain that.

 

Maybe it is indeed all about scheme and not so much the players.

 

Can you change schemes mid season?

[azbearsfan]

The problem I have is that Brown thinks this crappy pass rush is them doing their jobs.

 

You have to be kidding me..

[nfoligno]

I see it from both sides.

 

On one hand, I think our DL is a bit delusional if they think the QB never stands in the pocket "patting the ball" w/o a pass rush. While I agree QBs are shredding us w/ quick passes, we are also seeing more than enough snaps where the QB sits in the pocket w/ plenty of time, and still no pass rush.

 

On the other hand, I think more than one DL is making a case they are doing what the staff is telling them to do, and it isn't working.

 

I have seen it prior to this game, and it was in fact a discussion before the game at the bar, but have since heard on the Score and read in comments about our players saying they are instructed to rush some, then stop, stand and get their hands up in the passing lane. That was one of the comments either Harris or Brown made that has really been discussed, particularly on the Score. If they are told to stop their pass rush and try to standup and get in the passing lanes, then would you not agree there is a problem?

 

It's sort of like back in the days of "Sacks are not that important" Greg Blache. Back then, players were told to stop the run first, stay in their lanes, and maintain control over simply taking off at the QB. If players did as they were told, and executed, the result was not likely to generate a ton of DL sacks. Are the players at fault?

 

Understand. I think the players are partially at fault here, but I also think there is more to it than simple execution.

 

The problem I have is that Brown thinks this crappy pass rush is them doing their jobs.

 

You have to be kidding me..

[ChileBear]

Hey, I think its both. I think the players are not sold on Lovie's scheme, but also question Babich's playcalling. Watching the games, I do not see Lovie making play-by-play defensive calls. That still appears to be in Babich's control. So I think the players are questioning both the playcalling and scheme, and thus are questioning both.

 

I am not intending to villify the wrong guy. I think both are a problem, and ultimately, I place the blame at Lovie's feet. It's his scheme, and he choose the DC. Worse, he let a successful DC goes, I believe, because he wanted to do things different from what Lovie wanted.

 

If given the choice, I think many players would like to see Rivera return.

We have seven games left to win the division. This kind of sniping in the lockerroom does no one any good. Lovie, I think, has got trouble on his hands.

[Da Bears 88]

Mark Anderson hasn't been the same since Ron Rivera left.

 

He's nowhere to be found in this crap cover 2 defense.

[nfoligno]

Then again, if the players are able to force the coaches to make some changes, then maybe some good could come of it.

 

We have seven games left to win the division. This kind of sniping in the lockerroom does no one any good. Lovie, I think, has got trouble on his hands.

[BigDaddy]

I think it's about time these players start talking about the issues this defense is having. Look, if Babich is in fact responsible for Vasher and Tillman playing so far off the line and that is the scheme, he should have been fired weeks ago. My understanding was that the CBs were given latitude as to where they play a WR so naturally, I'm mad as hell at both of them but if they don't actually make that decision, then Babich should not only be fired, he should be drawn and quartered as well, then the players should have their asses kicked for not saying anything sooner. This is absolutely ridiculous that we are week in week out making Kerry Collins, Orlovsky, Matt Ryan a rookie, Gus Ferotte look like world beaters by giving them career days against this defense. I am so hopeful that Angelo pulls the plug on all of these bums. I would keep Turner and toub but everyone else would be gone. I do hope that this thing escalates to the point of Babich and Lovie being called out until this problem is fixed.

[ChileBear]

Then again, if the players are able to force the coaches to make some changes, then maybe some good could come of it.

We hope. But Lovie has not shown that he's a flexible type guy.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Can't we just get some mean, nasty SOB d-coordinator, move Babich out of town or to a smaller role (DB coach, whatever)?

[madlithuanian]

I could not agree more...

 

I'm literally speachless on this D and coaching staff. At least today.

 

I see it from both sides.

 

On one hand, I think our DL is a bit delusional if they think the QB never stands in the pocket "patting the ball" w/o a pass rush. While I agree QBs are shredding us w/ quick passes, we are also seeing more than enough snaps where the QB sits in the pocket w/ plenty of time, and still no pass rush.

 

On the other hand, I think more than one DL is making a case they are doing what the staff is telling them to do, and it isn't working.

 

I have seen it prior to this game, and it was in fact a discussion before the game at the bar, but have since heard on the Score and read in comments about our players saying they are instructed to rush some, then stop, stand and get their hands up in the passing lane. That was one of the comments either Harris or Brown made that has really been discussed, particularly on the Score. If they are told to stop their pass rush and try to standup and get in the passing lanes, then would you not agree there is a problem?

 

It's sort of like back in the days of "Sacks are not that important" Greg Blache. Back then, players were told to stop the run first, stay in their lanes, and maintain control over simply taking off at the QB. If players did as they were told, and executed, the result was not likely to generate a ton of DL sacks. Are the players at fault?

 

Understand. I think the players are partially at fault here, but I also think there is more to it than simple execution.