nfoligno Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 One thing I haven't really seen mentioned is Tennessee cornerback Cortland Finnegan. This is a guy who has a bit of a rep as being an ass. I think his own teamates (including team leader Bulluck) has even gotten into fights w/ him. Anyway, front the get-go, Finnegan was in our players faces, pushing shoving, late hitting, etc. I saw very little from our guys. I realize the 2nd guy draws the flag, and some (maybe much) of his antics are likely intended to get into the minds of our players, but still. At some point, when a guy is simply pushing you around, do you not have to do something? Yea, we had a couple guys here and there push back, but in a game like football, I would think you could really get some payback w/ a player that is showing you up. This is a physical game, and Finnegan was throwing down a guantlet and picking fights w/ any wearing blue and orange. I simply saw very little response. It made me thing of years ago w/ Rudd show-boated his way for a score against us, and rather than make him pay for that, we essentially laid down. Throughout the game, I really expected to see Kreutz drill the dude on a block, or Clark pancake him, or Booker to knock the snot out of him. Nothing. Maybe I am making too much out of a little thing, but our team simply seems soft, and this is yet another example of such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 I saw Hester get into it with him a couple of times. But... To your point about the second man getting caught, sure, that's true. But who says the retaliation has to be immediate. Take a play or two, or a series or two, and then blind side him with a high/low. Ditka would've drawn up a play, special, on the fly, to set him up. And Buddy Ryan would've too. We need some heart. And it starts at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Agreed, and that is my point. I saw pushing and shoving immediately after Finnigan would do something, but throughout the game, I expected to see one of our guys do something to retaliate. As you said, that doesn't mean immediately, when the refs are watching, but at some point. I wanted to see us run a sweep, where you know he would move up to stop the run, and see a FB or OG just waylay him. I saw Hester get into it with him a couple of times. But... To your point about the second man getting caught, sure, that's true. But who says the retaliation has to be immediate. Take a play or two, or a series or two, and then blind side him with a high/low. Ditka would've drawn up a play, special, on the fly, to set him up. And Buddy Ryan would've too. We need some heart. And it starts at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Agreed, and that is my point. I saw pushing and shoving immediately after Finnigan would do something, but throughout the game, I expected to see one of our guys do something to retaliate. As you said, that doesn't mean immediately, when the refs are watching, but at some point. I wanted to see us run a sweep, where you know he would move up to stop the run, and see a FB or OG just waylay him. I can understand not wanting to be hit with stupid penalties. And we have seen our team make them this year with disastrous consequencs. But yeah, there are ways to target players. And yep, I agree, we're soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 One thing I haven't really seen mentioned is Tennessee cornerback Cortland Finnegan. This is a guy who has a bit of a rep as being an ass. I think his own teamates (including team leader Bulluck) has even gotten into fights w/ him. Anyway, front the get-go, Finnegan was in our players faces, pushing shoving, late hitting, etc. I saw very little from our guys. I realize the 2nd guy draws the flag, and some (maybe much) of his antics are likely intended to get into the minds of our players, but still. At some point, when a guy is simply pushing you around, do you not have to do something? Yea, we had a couple guys here and there push back, but in a game like football, I would think you could really get some payback w/ a player that is showing you up. This is a physical game, and Finnegan was throwing down a guantlet and picking fights w/ any wearing blue and orange. I simply saw very little response. It made me thing of years ago w/ Rudd show-boated his way for a score against us, and rather than make him pay for that, we essentially laid down. Throughout the game, I really expected to see Kreutz drill the dude on a block, or Clark pancake him, or Booker to knock the snot out of him. Nothing. Maybe I am making too much out of a little thing, but our team simply seems soft, and this is yet another example of such. Man I noticed this too. He was destroying our receivers, knocking them off routes, etc. We never got him out of being super aggresive and it hurt us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 I just don't know what is up w/ this team. Are they really so soft and uninspired as to allow opponents to push them around? Sure looks that way watching the games. I know you are not in favor of ripping the coaches for their scheme, but how about for this? Does this not go back to the coaching staff? If the coaching staff treats the players w/ kid gloves, and is a "players coach" and you see players play soft, might there not be a connection? Man I noticed this too. He was destroying our receivers, knocking them off routes, etc. We never got him out of being super aggresive and it hurt us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 I just don't know what is up w/ this team. Are they really so soft and uninspired as to allow opponents to push them around? Sure looks that way watching the games. I know you are not in favor of ripping the coaches for their scheme, but how about for this? Does this not go back to the coaching staff? If the coaching staff treats the players w/ kid gloves, and is a "players coach" and you see players play soft, might there not be a connection? This football organization is in a complete state of denial. We have a head coach who doesn't believe that there is anything wrong with this scheme. It is all the players fault. We have players who are either pointing the finger at each other or the coaches. This football team's identity is becoming a joke. They talk tough but play soft. There isn't ANYONE in this organization man enough to take responsibility. I was actually envious of Tennessee having a guy like Finnegan, at least he plays with some fire and isn't afraid to smack somebody in the mouth. We could use about 7 of him on defense, maybve then we'd start playing like we're capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Id like to bring up the thread about Tillmans penalty against Tampa and see what you guys were saying then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Id like to bring up the thread about Tillmans penalty against Tampa and see what you guys were saying then. Totally agree.... That guy is just a little bitch, his stupid acts were just emphasized by the TV coverage... I will say that this team needs some damn fire though...I am getting ready to blame Lovie for that...his calm and un-moved atitude is starting to get to me, and I feel its rubbing off on the players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 There are ways to do it w/o drawing a flag. Finnigan was often in on run plays, and even blitzed and sacked Rex. W/o drawing a flag, we should have been able to get a blocker on him and lay him out. Id like to bring up the thread about Tillmans penalty against Tampa and see what you guys were saying then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 There are ways to do it w/o drawing a flag. Finnigan was often in on run plays, and even blitzed and sacked Rex. W/o drawing a flag, we should have been able to get a blocker on him and lay him out. Is this really what we need to talk about? I would much rather worry about the fact we lost the game and why. The fact that someone didn't get Finnegan had nothing to do with the fact we lost. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 I say let your play do the talking, we already saw what happens when you retaliate.. cough, Tillman, cough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 I say let your play do the talking, we already saw what happens when you retaliate.. cough, Tillman, cough.. Agreed 100%. Get a TD on his arse and then let him know about it. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 I just don't know what is up w/ this team. Are they really so soft and uninspired as to allow opponents to push them around? Sure looks that way watching the games. I know you are not in favor of ripping the coaches for their scheme, but how about for this? Does this not go back to the coaching staff? If the coaching staff treats the players w/ kid gloves, and is a "players coach" and you see players play soft, might there not be a connection? I dont want to get into this again, but I have always said that our staff wasn't very good at teaching technique and player development. Dude this has nothing to do with scheme. Not sure why you would bring that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 My point was simply seperating the past scheme arguments we have had, and looking at other aspects of the staff. So, what exactly is your position. You do not believe the cover two is a problem. Okay. I get that. But do you think the coaches in general are good? You say you don't think they are very good teaching technique, or in player development. From past arguments, again, sep from the overall scheme itself, I believe you question in-game playcalling. The coaches do not seem to be good motivators. How much is left? So, are you in favor of firing Lovie and/or Babich? Not necessarily today, or even this season, but after the season? Or do I misunderstand your position? I dont want to get into this again, but I have always said that our staff wasn't very good at teaching technique and player development. Dude this has nothing to do with scheme. Not sure why you would bring that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Sorry, but I disagree. Finnegan is an example, and nothing more. This team doesn't seem inspired to me. They too often seem to lack heart. Overall, in general, something just seems missing. They don't have that fire, and to me, the Finnegan example is just that. An example. IMHO, the 2005 defense had fire in its belly. Even when they began to struggle at times, they usually still seemed to have that fire, or would find it. Like in the AZ game when they started out w/o fire, but then burned the house down. This year, I just don't see it. IMHO, if Finnegan was punking our players in 2005 as he did yesterday, he would have paid a price for it. You say it has nothing to do w/ the loss. Maybe it doesn't. Then again, maybe it is a prime example to point to of how soft this team has become. Is this really what we need to talk about? I would much rather worry about the fact we lost the game and why. The fact that someone didn't get Finnegan had nothing to do with the fact we lost. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 As I have said elsewhere, there are right and wrong ways to retaliate. When a guy gets in your face, hitting him upside the head....Wrong way. But a CB? You run the ball 30 or whatever times in a game. That's 30 times it is legal to flat out waylay the dude w/ a block. Man, there are many ways to shut a guy like that up. Sure, you can say score on him, but I still think there is more to the gamesmenship side. I say let your play do the talking, we already saw what happens when you retaliate.. cough, Tillman, cough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 As I have said elsewhere, there are right and wrong ways to retaliate. When a guy gets in your face, hitting him upside the head....Wrong way. But a CB? You run the ball 30 or whatever times in a game. That's 30 times it is legal to flat out waylay the dude w/ a block. Man, there are many ways to shut a guy like that up. Sure, you can say score on him, but I still think there is more to the gamesmenship side. Run a crossing route where his WR is coming across the middle and we've got a TE or FB coming the other way. Throw the ball wherever you want but the FB/TE's job on that is to "pick" the corner. Only in this case, the pick is so hard a hit it rattles his little pea brain. Most often, pick plays, while illegal, aren't called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Run a crossing route where his WR is coming across the middle and we've got a TE or FB coming the other way. Throw the ball wherever you want but the FB/TE's job on that is to "pick" the corner. Only in this case, the pick is so hard a hit it rattles his little pea brain. Most often, pick plays, while illegal, aren't called. I also like to have our OLB's blasting WR's and TE's off their quick routes. But, it doesn't happen in our scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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