Wilbon rips coaches on PTI

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

He blames everything wrong with Hester on the coaching staff. He said you don't take the best weapon ever and try to turn him into something he's not which will obviously make him not so much of a great weapon anymore.

 

He said then said something that I really have never thought about- it went like this:

"You guys want a #1 receiver? THEN GO OUT AND SIGN ONE!!!!!!"

 

 

Thoughts?

[madlithuanian]

I agree w/ Wilbon...

 

He blames everything wrong with Hester on the coaching staff. He said you don't take the best weapon ever and try to turn him into something he's not which will obviously make him not so much of a great weapon anymore.

 

He said then said something that I really have never thought about- it went like this:

"You guys want a #1 receiver? THEN GO OUT AND SIGN ONE!!!!!!"

 

 

Thoughts?

[balta1701-A]

Last year, weren't the only 2 guys who got #1 wide receiver money Bernard Berrian and Javon Walker?

[madlithuanian]

Roy Williams found a home out of the Motor City this year...

 

I think when there's a will, there's a way...

 

I think the hint is to Boldin.

 

Last year, weren't the only 2 guys who got #1 wide receiver money Bernard Berrian and Javon Walker?

[Iguana]

Houshamazilla is a FA, I believe. Sign his ass.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I'd love Housh. I've always sort have cheered for Cincy, and of all the games I've seen, he has a pair of the softest hands in football. Then again, he'll be 30 or 31 next year but I'd give him 5 years at the most for about 9-10 per year.

[DrunkBomber]

I'd love Housh. I've always sort have cheered for Cincy, and of all the games I've seen, he has a pair of the softest hands in football. Then again, he'll be 30 or 31 next year but I'd give him 5 years at the most for about 9-10 per year.

He would be by far our best bet. I hope JA realizes our need for WR and OL as much as some of us do though.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

He would be by far our best bet. I hope JA realizes our need for WR and OL as much as some of us do though.

Couldn't agree more. If we trade for Boldin, we'll be giving up a 2nd rounder this year and a 4th next year, plus his huge deal, when that would hurt considering JA loves 2nd round picks and we have way too many needs to give this year's up.

[selection7]

As I watched Orton trying to get Hester the ball last Sunday, it became apparent that for all Hester's speed, he wasn't getting separation and executing his routes well in the short, quick passing game, and Orton desperately needed someone (not just a TE/RB) to help move the chains that day. Well, that's exactly what you'd expect from a still relatively green WR with lots of athleticism, but on 3rd and 4 we need someone to run a perfectly executed route to pick up the easy first down, like other teams have. I expected this out of Booker before the season, but oh well. I'm not sure what's up with Lloyd. Rashied was converted to DB too, right? But he's less green than Hester, so Turner should expect him to be able to fill that need.

 

But let's not forget, up until these last two games, our WR's have actually been a pleasant surprise. Rashied and Hester were playing well and Lloyd was playing like a number one. I also noticed it took all of two games for everyone to go from "damn, guess I was wrong about the OL, maybe Lovie/JA/Turner knew their team better than I gave them credit for. They're holding up nicely, just gotta get more run blocking push." to "our OL is a joke. I knew we should've signed a FA in desperation." So it's kind of convenient to be dramatic now isn't it? Wait until after a game where we didn't lose 37-3 to make an evaluation of our players for the season. Before Tennessee, we were 6 seconds away (Atlanta) from having won 5 straight games. All the other losses were by 3 points or less.

[artbest]

TRUE, but Matt Forte notwithstanding, Jerry Angelo has a unique knack for blowing 1st and 2nd round picks. As an evaluator of college talent, overall, he ranks in the bottom third in the league among his peers (IMHO anyway). When it comes to evaluating offensive talent, he's among the 4-5 worst GM's in the NFL. If he can get a big-time #1 receiver and not give up a 1st round pick, he'll at least have to consider it.

 

More to the point, one way or the other, he HAS to upgrade a WR corps that is perhaps the saddest I've seen on an NFL roster in the 21st century.

 

Couldn't agree more. If we trade for Boldin, we'll be giving up a 2nd rounder this year and a 4th next year, plus his huge deal, when that would hurt considering JA loves 2nd round picks and we have way too many needs to give this year's up.

[Iguana]

Couldn't agree more. If we trade for Boldin, we'll be giving up a 2nd rounder this year and a 4th next year, plus his huge deal, when that would hurt considering JA loves 2nd round picks and we have way too many needs to give this year's up.

 

JA could always trade down and get more picks. he loves trading down. lol.

 

I'd be all for getting Boldin.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

TRUE, but Matt Forte notwithstanding, Jerry Angelo has a unique knack for blowing 1st and 2nd round picks. As an evaluator of college talent, overall, he ranks in the bottom third in the league among his peers (IMHO anyway). When it comes to evaluating offensive talent, he's among the 4-5 worst GM's in the NFL. If he can get a big-time #1 receiver and not give up a 1st round pick, he'll at least have to consider it.

 

More to the point, one way or the other, he HAS to upgrade a WR corps that is perhaps the saddest I've seen on an NFL roster in the 21st century.

Hester?

[madlithuanian]

A broken clock is right twice a day...

 

Hester?

[nfoligno]

Several responses/comments.

 

One. Regarding our WRs, I personally question how much of a "pleasant surprise" they ever were. Even when our offense was clicking, it was far more due to our TEs and Forte in the passing game than to our WRs. Take a look at our WRs stats, and they are pretty dang ugly.

 

Lloyd is really the only WR that appeared to be a surprise for a short period, but really, that was 2 games (one legit big game). I would argue our WRs have not looked very good this year. Our offense was playing well enough that this was not made a big issue, but Orton's injury has really exposed this unit once again.

 

Two. Regarding the OL. As one of the loudest (Jason being the other) screaming for OL upgrades, I would like to respond here. At no point in time have I felt our OL was playing well this year. I have said all year they were getting pushed around in the run game. Further, I have said many times that IMHO, they are not that good v the pass rush either, but Orton masks that weakness better. I think Orton does a very good job pre-snap. Further, I think Orton does a better job of quickly working through his progressions and getting rid of the ball. And when he doesn't get rid of the ball, he does a better job moving in the pocket (sometimes really just taking a couple steps forward) to avoid the rush. I said early on. Rex makes our OL look worse than they are, and Orton makes them look better than they are.

 

So, for me (and Jason) it isn't just the GB game, or even the Tenn and GB games. I think you would find we have never felt the OL was playing well this year, and that OL has been and remains one of, if not the top, need for this team.

 

As I watched Orton trying to get Hester the ball last Sunday, it became apparent that for all Hester's speed, he wasn't getting separation and executing his routes well in the short, quick passing game, and Orton desperately needed someone (not just a TE/RB) to help move the chains that day. Well, that's exactly what you'd expect from a still relatively green WR with lots of athleticism, but on 3rd and 4 we need someone to run a perfectly executed route to pick up the easy first down, like other teams have. I expected this out of Booker before the season, but oh well. I'm not sure what's up with Lloyd. Rashied was converted to DB too, right? But he's less green than Hester, so Turner should expect him to be able to fill that need.

 

But let's not forget, up until these last two games, our WR's have actually been a pleasant surprise. Rashied and Hester were playing well and Lloyd was playing like a number one. I also noticed it took all of two games for everyone to go from "damn, guess I was wrong about the OL, maybe Lovie/JA/Turner knew their team better than I gave them credit for. They're holding up nicely, just gotta get more run blocking push." to "our OL is a joke. I knew we should've signed a FA in desperation." So it's kind of convenient to be dramatic now isn't it? Wait until after a game where we didn't lose 37-3 to make an evaluation of our players for the season. Before Tennessee, we were 6 seconds away (Atlanta) from having won 5 straight games. All the other losses were by 3 points or less.

[selection7]

So, for me (and Jason) it isn't just the GB game, or even the Tenn and GB games. I think you would find we have never felt the OL was playing well this year, and that OL has been and remains one of, if not the top, need for this team.

That just sounds like someone not wanting to admit they were wrong to me. So you never felt like they were playing well? Considering your preseason bias, of course it's gonna take more to convince you than than the average person.

 

To use a goofy cliche like Mike Brown would, the proof is in the pudding. The offense is better than it's been in years and with respect to the Oline's weakness, rush blocking, Forte is even doing well on the ground some weeks. That could not happen if the Oline was playing as bad as you predicted, period. And reality is that the Oline doesn't have to be a top5 unit to prove you wrong. If, now in week12, you wanted to stand on the more reasonable point that the Oline "still needs improvement", then maybe next time you'll think twice about being so dramatic. I believe my exact words were "holding up nicely", not all-pro unit, and management "knows our players better than we gave them credit for", not Lovie and JA make all the right moves. As I sit here and type this, it seems to me that's prety accurate and what fans like you were predicting in preseason was not. Pretty cut and dry, IMO.

[selection7]

BTW, note that I never took a position on this issue (in preseason) since I really had no idea and I haven't said otherwise in this thread. Tough to be wrong when you don't pick a side, but considering the Oline has played average, not great, not terrible, being on the fence in the preseason seems to have been a reasonable choice.

[ChileBear]

Several responses/comments.

 

Two. Regarding the OL. As one of the loudest (Jason being the other) screaming for OL upgrades, I would like to respond here. At no point in time have I felt our OL was playing well this year. I have said all year they were getting pushed around in the run game. Further, I have said many times that IMHO, they are not that good v the pass rush either, but Orton masks that weakness better. I think Orton does a very good job pre-snap. Further, I think Orton does a better job of quickly working through his progressions and getting rid of the ball. And when he doesn't get rid of the ball, he does a better job moving in the pocket (sometimes really just taking a couple steps forward) to avoid the rush. I said early on. Rex makes our OL look worse than they are, and Orton makes them look better than they are.

 

So, for me (and Jason) it isn't just the GB game, or even the Tenn and GB games. I think you would find we have never felt the OL was playing well this year, and that OL has been and remains one of, if not the top, need for this team.

Agree on the OL, and always have. If we can't control the LS then the O is never going to hold its own. I'm still befuddled that Williams didn't get some time in this game.

[azbearsfan]

That just sounds like someone not wanting to admit they were wrong to me. So you never felt like they were playing well? Considering your preseason bias, of course it's gonna take more to convince you than than the average person.

 

To use a goofy cliche like Mike Brown would, the proof is in the pudding. The offense is better than it's been in years and with respect to the Oline's weakness, rush blocking, Forte is even doing well on the ground some weeks. That could not happen if the Oline was playing as bad as you predicted, period. And reality is that the Oline doesn't have to be a top5 unit to prove you wrong. If, now in week12, you wanted to stand on the more reasonable point that the Oline "still needs improvement", then maybe next time you'll think twice about being so dramatic. I believe my exact words were "holding up nicely", not all-pro unit, and management "knows our players better than we gave them credit for", not Lovie and JA make all the right moves. As I sit here and type this, it seems to me that's prety accurate and what fans like you were predicting in preseason was not. Pretty cut and dry, IMO.

 

 

I agree with you. I think the bottom line is that the OL is better than last year. All you need to do is watch the running game to see that.

 

And dont worry about NFO. He likes to "call people out" sometimes.