Looks like Lovie lit a fire...

[GakMan23]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,7500115.column

 

Lovie gave the team a wakeup call at halftime. Nice to see him taking control of the team.

[madlithuanian]

Too little, almost too late.

 

Why was this not done before the game started? But, I'll still take it...

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,7500115.column

 

Lovie gave the team a wakeup call at halftime. Nice to see him taking control of the team.

[Pixote]

Too little, almost too late.

 

Why was this not done before the game started? But, I'll still take it...

 

It has been said on this forum before and I will repeat it again, I blame our team veterans, especially it's captains, for not providing the leadership on the field to help prevent this type of lack of energy. I want to see our team captains firing everyone up. I do not give a crap about leading by example and good locker room leadership. I want to see our captains going ballistic and firing up those around them on the field and on the sidelines. There is no excuse for the lack of intensity I saw in the first half of last nights game.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed.

 

Which is why Ray Lewis is going to the Hall of Fame and Urlacher, to the hall of very good...

 

It has been said on this forum before and I will repeat it again, I blame our team veterans, especially it's captains, for not providing the leadership on the field to help prevent this type of lack of energy. I want to see our team captains firing everyone up. I do not give a crap about leading by example and good locker room leadership. I want to see our captains going ballistic and firing up those around them on the field and on the sidelines. There is no excuse for the lack of intensity I saw in the first half of last nights game.

[Connorbear]

It has been said on this forum before and I will repeat it again, I blame our team veterans, especially it's captains, for not providing the leadership on the field to help prevent this type of lack of energy. I want to see our team captains firing everyone up. I do not give a crap about leading by example and good locker room leadership. I want to see our captains going ballistic and firing up those around them on the field and on the sidelines. There is no excuse for the lack of intensity I saw in the first half of last nights game.

I agree. Olin Kreutz, Kyle Orton, Brian Urlacher, and Mike Brown - get your heads out of your arses. Grab your teammate by the facemask and tell them ever so politely to step it up.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

I have no problem calling out the veterans for a lack of fire or leadership, but I do have a problem w/ not also pointing the finger at the coaches. Has it not always been the job of the coaches to have the players ready to play? Spread the blame around. Fine. But do not absolve the coaches of something that is w/o question part of their job.

 

I am glad Lovie gave an nice half time speech, but I too have to wonder how a coach can allow the team to enter the game so flat.

 

It has been said on this forum before and I will repeat it again, I blame our team veterans, especially it's captains, for not providing the leadership on the field to help prevent this type of lack of energy. I want to see our team captains firing everyone up. I do not give a crap about leading by example and good locker room leadership. I want to see our captains going ballistic and firing up those around them on the field and on the sidelines. There is no excuse for the lack of intensity I saw in the first half of last nights game.

[Connorbear]

I have no problem calling out the veterans for a lack of fire or leadership, but I do have a problem w/ not also pointing the finger at the coaches. Has it not always been the job of the coaches to have the players ready to play? Spread the blame around. Fine. But do not absolve the coaches of something that is w/o question part of their job.

 

I am glad Lovie gave an nice half time speech, but I too have to wonder how a coach can allow the team to enter the game so flat.

I agree the head coach is ultimately responsible for the team and its performance. However, at this level, there should be no reason given the circumstances for the players to come out in the first half the way they did. The player know what is on the line. I'm sure they were told all week. I heard the interview with Lovie before the game so I know what he told them. There is no excuse for professionals to play that way.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

I am not in the lockeroom, in practices, or even in the same state for that matter. Nor do I have inside sources or contacts. So I can only go off what I read, see and hear.

 

Do you listen to the Score? I love listening to Hampton in particular, not only due to his being a Bear great, but simply due to the insight he provides. A couple weeks agao, Hub (the favorite of the board:)) wanted to address the question of how much a coach actually can inspire players on game day. In Hubs opinion, coaches do little to nothing to inspire players, and it is really all about the players. Hampton said coaches can do little to inspire players on game day, but went on to state that coaches do inspire players throughout the week.

 

He talked about when he was a player, and how Buddy began "working up" the players on Tuesday, and built on that throughout the week. He talked about many things Buddy would do, like: using comments other teams would make, showing film everyday of prior games (especially if there was a prior game w/ that same team) and how poor they may have played on a particular down, calling players out during practice, and just overall, lighting a fire under them. Hampton said that if you do not do this throughout the week, there is little that can be done on game day. Either the fire is there by that point, or it is not.

 

He went on to talk about how Rivera did this a lot, using many of the same methods learned under Buddy Ryan. He then went on to talk about how Babich simply does not do this. Hampton said Babich simply does not use motivational techniques during the week to fire up the team. Now, you can say, "how does Hampton know, as he is not a member of the team anymore". That may be true, but I would argue he talks to players everyday, on and off the air, and is in a better position to know than I. Further, I am not sure Hampton is someone to make statements like that w/o any sort of knowledge.

 

Again, this does not excuse veterans. But I simply feel there is more to the coaching aspect then what some want to believe.

 

I agree the coach is ultimately responsible for the team and its performance. However, at this level, there should be no reason given the circumstances for the players to come out in the first half the way they did. The player know what is on the line. I'm sure they were told all week. I heard the interview with Lovie before the game so I know what he told them. There is no excuse for professionals to play that way.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

He went on to talk about how Rivera did this a lot, using many of the same methods learned under Buddy Ryan. He then went on to talk about how Babich simply does not do this. Hampton said Babich simply does not use motivational techniques during the week to fire up the team. Now, you can say, "how does Hampton know, as he is not a member of the team anymore". That may be true, but I would argue he talks to players everyday, on and off the air, and is in a better position to know than I. Further, I am not sure Hampton is someone to make statements like that w/o any sort of knowledge.

I heard this same discussion and wondered how Hampton knows what Rivera and Babich do at practice. I know the press has limited access to practice. Maybe Hampton has more since he is a former player. My point would be that you know he is not there at every practice. Hell, I would say he is most likely there no more than 10% of the time so he is drawing a conclusion from what he has observed on a limited basis. Now, he is obviously much more qualified than you or I to make that judgement. I am just noting that his statements are subjective.

 

Peace

[jason]

I am not in the lockeroom, in practices, or even in the same state for that matter. Nor do I have inside sources or contacts. So I can only go off what I read, see and hear.

 

Do you listen to the Score? I love listening to Hampton in particular, not only due to his being a Bear great, but simply due to the insight he provides. A couple weeks agao, Hub (the favorite of the board:)) wanted to address the question of how much a coach actually can inspire players on game day. In Hubs opinion, coaches do little to nothing to inspire players, and it is really all about the players. Hampton said coaches can do little to inspire players on game day, but went on to state that coaches do inspire players throughout the week.

 

He talked about when he was a player, and how Buddy began "working up" the players on Tuesday, and built on that throughout the week. He talked about many things Buddy would do, like: using comments other teams would make, showing film everyday of prior games (especially if there was a prior game w/ that same team) and how poor they may have played on a particular down, calling players out during practice, and just overall, lighting a fire under them. Hampton said that if you do not do this throughout the week, there is little that can be done on game day. Either the fire is there by that point, or it is not.

 

He went on to talk about how Rivera did this a lot, using many of the same methods learned under Buddy Ryan. He then went on to talk about how Babich simply does not do this. Hampton said Babich simply does not use motivational techniques during the week to fire up the team. Now, you can say, "how does Hampton know, as he is not a member of the team anymore". That may be true, but I would argue he talks to players everyday, on and off the air, and is in a better position to know than I. Further, I am not sure Hampton is someone to make statements like that w/o any sort of knowledge.

 

Again, this does not excuse veterans. But I simply feel there is more to the coaching aspect then what some want to believe.

 

I cannot add a thing to this except for agreement and a head nod. Perfect post.

[madlithuanian]

True enough, but I simply put more credence into one's opinion's who has direct knowledge. He's been there before, and he more than likely has some access or contacts within the organization. Otherwise you'd be hearing someone from the Bears team or management scream bloody murder that Hampton is dead wrong... The quiet on that front speaks volumes.

 

...and in all honesty, what comments invloving pro football aren't subjective other than a rattling off of pure stats?

 

I heard this same discussion and wondered how Hampton knows what Rivera and Babich do at practice. I know the press has limited access to practice. Maybe Hampton has more since he is a former player. My point would be that you know he is not there at every practice. Hell, I would say he is most likely there no more than 10% of the time so he is drawing a conclusion from what he has observed on a limited basis. Now, he is obviously much more qualified than you or I to make that judgement. I am just noting that his statements are subjective.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

I wonder how much he talks to current players on the issue. We know many players go on his show, and other Score shows. I would bet Hampton has many off-air discussion w/ current players as well. While players may not call out the staff on air often, I bet they confide in a former player like Hampton more than we know.

 

For me, it is a credibility thing. Do you believe Hampton is the sort to simply pull something out of his arce, w/o any amount of evidence? I just don't think he is that sort. He was very specific in calling out Babich. He wasn't just guessing Babich doesn't use motivational tactics, but flat out said he does not. So either you think Hampton of full of it, or you have to believe he has his sources, if not first hand knowledge.

 

I heard this same discussion and wondered how Hampton knows what Rivera and Babich do at practice. I know the press has limited access to practice. Maybe Hampton has more since he is a former player. My point would be that you know he is not there at every practice. Hell, I would say he is most likely there no more than 10% of the time so he is drawing a conclusion from what he has observed on a limited basis. Now, he is obviously much more qualified than you or I to make that judgement. I am just noting that his statements are subjective.

 

Peace

[Mongo3451]

True enough, but I simply put more credence into one's opinion's who has direct knowledge. He's been there before, and he more than likely has some access or contacts within the organization. Otherwise you'd be hearing someone from the Bears team or management scream bloody murder that Hampton is dead wrong... The quiet on that front speaks volumes.

 

...and in all honesty, what comments invloving pro football aren't subjective other than a rattling off of pure stats?

The team and staff are not going to spend their time and effort arguing with Hampton. I love Hampton, but he tends to be a little over-opinionated, which could lead to mud slinging if a war of words started. Better just to let him talk without poking a stick at a HOFer. Plus, he's probably somewhat right.

[madlithuanian]

Probably not, but if what he was saying was so greivous, I would bet some player would say that Hampton hasn't been in the locker room, etc...

 

 

The team and staff are not going to spend their time and effort arguing with Hampton. I love Hampton, but he tends to be a little over-opinionated, which could lead to mud slinging if a war of words started. Better just to let him talk without poking a stick at a HOFer. Plus, he's probably somewhat right.

[Wesson44]

I know from both playing in high school and college that coaches can and do motive the players. But it's the main responsibility of the players to motive themselves and their other players. Prime example when I played DB in college when had a nickname for our secondary it was called the Twilight Zone. And we tried to knock your lights out if you tried to catch the ball. Our coaches started to fed in on it after the second game and start using it to keep us pumped. Also they would put up stats of the other teams WR'S issuing us a challenge to keep them low or take them out of the game. We had an award called they "Dog Hammer" our team was the Bulldogs, but the dog hammer is given to the player who had the biggest hit, most ints, tackles or what ever.......but we played hard to earn that award each week and you should have seen how the players played and hit...a thing of beauty!! Now I know that the pros are different than the lower non pro levels but the coaches can try to motivate the player and the players to other players as well. Like one guy said we need the Ray Lewis attitude on this team. We need the Bill Cower/ Iron Mike type of coach. Hell this team has a nickname that we hardly even hear anymore "The Monsters Of The Midway" because we are not playing like it and the players are not hyped to it.

[bear trap]

I know from both playing in high school and college that coaches can and do motive the players. But it's the main responsibility of the players to motive themselves and their other players. Prime example when I played DB in college when had a nickname for our secondary it was called the Twilight Zone. And we tried to knock your lights out if you tried to catch the ball. Our coaches started to fed in on it after the second game and start using it to keep us pumped. Also they would put up stats of the other teams WR'S issuing us a challenge to keep them low or take them out of the game. We had an award called they "Dog Hammer" our team was the Bulldogs, but the dog hammer is given to the player who had the biggest hit, most ints, tackles or what ever.......but we played hard to earn that award each week and you should have seen how the players played and hit...a thing of beauty!! Now I know that the pros are different than the lower non pro levels but the coaches can try to motivate the player and the players to other players as well. Like one guy said we need the Ray Lewis attitude on this team. We need the Bill Cower/ Iron Mike type of coach. Hell this team has a nickname that we hardly even hear anymore "The Monsters Of The Midway" because we are not playing like it and the players are not hyped to it.

 

You need to get your butt out of Iraq and get your butt to chicago and interview for our D-coordinator job cause that is the kind of motivation this team needs! If Babich is not fired after this horrid defensive season JA and Lovie will have picked their poison and should be fired after next season! I'll give both JA and Lovie another season, but that's it. If you are talked up as a defensive coach and put as much money into the personel we have there's no excuse for the lack of production on the side of the ball you "claim" to be your specialty!

[Connorbear]

I know from both playing in high school and college that coaches can and do motive the players. But it's the main responsibility of the players to motive themselves and their other players. Prime example when I played DB in college when had a nickname for our secondary it was called the Twilight Zone. And we tried to knock your lights out if you tried to catch the ball. Our coaches started to fed in on it after the second game and start using it to keep us pumped. Also they would put up stats of the other teams WR'S issuing us a challenge to keep them low or take them out of the game. We had an award called they "Dog Hammer" our team was the Bulldogs, but the dog hammer is given to the player who had the biggest hit, most ints, tackles or what ever.......but we played hard to earn that award each week and you should have seen how the players played and hit...a thing of beauty!! Now I know that the pros are different than the lower non pro levels but the coaches can try to motivate the player and the players to other players as well. Like one guy said we need the Ray Lewis attitude on this team. We need the Bill Cower/ Iron Mike type of coach. Hell this team has a nickname that we hardly even hear anymore "The Monsters Of The Midway" because we are not playing like it and the players are not hyped to it.

Great story - thanks. Sounds like you had a great college football experience.

 

Will disagree with you on the type of coach we need. I want a coach who gets the most out of his players. I could care less about his temperment.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

I don't think Smith's gotten the most out of his players, I don't think Jauron did either... 2 failed experiments with laid back guys I kind of think makes having one with a little more emotion a ittle more desirable to as least a large chunk of the fan base... Especially when our greatest success came from such temptaments (GSH and Ditka).

 

Yes, we all know that firey and winning don't always correlate. But when you call heads every time and lose, you're bound to want to call tails next time...

 

Great story - thanks. Sounds like you had a great college football experience.

 

Will disagree with you on the type of coach we need. I want a coach who gets the most out of his players. I could care less about his temperment.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

I don't think Smith's gotten the most out of his players, I don't think Jauron did either... 2 failed experiments with laid back guys I kind of think makes having one with a little more emotion a ittle more desirable to as least a large chunk of the fan base... Especially when our greatest success came from such temptaments (GSH and Ditka).

 

Yes, we all know that firey and winning don't always correlate. But when you call heads every time and lose, you're bound to want to call tails next time...

I agree that Lovie has not got the most out of his players. Hell, I would argue Ditka did not either. Ditka should have won at least 3 Superbowls with the talent he had.

 

There is no correlation between firey and winning just as there is no correlation between stoic and winning.

 

Let me ask you this - would you want Ron Rivera as head coach? I would argue he is more like Jauron/Smith than Ditka/Cowher from a personality stand point. Sure he shows a bit more emotion but is also can be very thoughtful. He doesn't teeter on the wild eyed edge that Ditka and Cowher have shown.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Fair enough!

 

I do and don't want Chico. Bears with me as a waffle a bit!

 

Why I would want Ron...

 

1. He's a former Bear tied to extreme success.

2. He's had great success here already

3. While not a firecracker on the sidelines, it has been reported that he lights a fire under the team during the week of practice.

4. He has a great defensive mind, tutored under some of the best D minds...ever.

 

Why I have my reservations...

 

1. He'd be our 3rd D coordinator hied to do the HC job...thus leaving a big question on O

2. Some bridges were burned when he was not re-upped, but maybe they can be repaired.

3. He has no HC experience

4. How did he not get sniffs as a HC when we let him go?

 

Overall, I'd take Ron in a heartbeat. But after much reading, etc...I'm actually becoming more intruiged with Toub. I like the element that ST carries over too all sides of the game, and also fmiliarizes the coach with all players. Not saying I'd take Toub over Chico...but I'd sure as heck consider it.

 

With Rivera's personality, while still reserved compared to Ditka...when compared to Smith. He is like an atom bomb compared to a pop rock.

 

 

I agree that Lovie has not got the most out of his players. Hell, I would argue Ditka did not either. Ditka should have won at least 3 Superbowls with the talent he had.

 

There is no correlation between firey and winning just as there is no correlation between stoic and winning.

 

Let me ask you this - would you want Ron Rivera as head coach? I would argue he is more like Jauron/Smith than Ditka/Cowher from a personality stand point. Sure he shows a bit more emotion but is also can be very thoughtful. He doesn't teeter on the wild eyed edge that Ditka and Cowher have shown.

 

Peace

[BearFan2000]

I think you need a mixture of both. You can have both extremes and we've had the laid back extreme for far too long. On the other hand you don't need a loose cannon or a walking tantrum. You need a guy who can be the pit bull when needed but can also be the mellow guy when needed but knows when to be which.

[DrunkBomber]

I would settle for a DC who will at least make a conscience effort to match his scheme with personnel. Im sick of the stubbornness of trying to run a defense that we dont have the players for. You cant run the tampa 2 with no pass rush from the d line and yet we continue to try. The good teams know how to pick it apart and thats what theyve been doing.

[BigDaddy]

First of all, I think one thing Lovie said was very telling. It was along the lines of, "I didn't expect it, with so much at stake, the rivalry, I thought we'd come out on fire." First of all, ANY coach worth his salt pays attention to the mood and actions of his players. One that is in touch with them can get a feeling when things aren't right. Don't tell me that these guys were not giving any idications that they weren't ready. Hell, I certainly know when the guys that work for me have something going on or when they are just going thru the motions. I have seen them at their best AND their worst. I can spot it immediately. These are the words of a coach who is out of touch. And neither the OC or DC felt anything was wrong for these guys to come out so flat? Again, a coaching staff who is on top of their game pays attention to those things. This is the very thing about lovie Smith that I have hated, he just does not seem to be a big game coach. A good coach would have had his team ready to kill these guys. You want a lesson in motivation, look at the ravens when they came to play the last game against Dallas at Texas Stadium. You heard the players saying thats all we talked about all week was Dallas thinking we were some patsy or cream puff. Well, was there any phucking doubt the ravens came to play saturday night? HELL NO!!! They smashed the Cowboys in the face and kept pounding all night long. THAT team was motivated. And YES, I absolutely throw blame for this at Urlacher, Brown, Harris, and ANY other veteran on this team who for whatever reason is afraid to assume the role of team leader. Urlacher should have assumed that role. He's the so-called face of the franchise and what was he doing? Nothing. If nothing else Brown should have taken it but I don't know whether this coaching staff has neutured this team to the point where nobody wants that role. Whatever is going on in that lockerroom needs fixing real damn quick.

 

Sorry but as happy as I am with the win, somehow it feels like we've sold our soul to the devil and any problems will be masked by a victory.

[madlithuanian]

BigDaddy,

 

Spot freakin' on!

 

First of all, I think one thing Lovie said was very telling. It was along the lines of, "I didn't expect it, with so much at stake, the rivalry, I thought we'd come out on fire." First of all, ANY coach worth his salt pays attention to the mood and actions of his players. One that is in touch with them can get a feeling when things aren't right. Don't tell me that these guys were not giving any idications that they weren't ready. Hell, I certainly know when the guys that work for me have something going on or when they are just going thru the motions. I have seen them at their best AND their worst. I can spot it immediately. These are the words of a coach who is out of touch. And neither the OC or DC felt anything was wrong for these guys to come out so flat? Again, a coaching staff who is on top of their game pays attention to those things. This is the very thing about lovie Smith that I have hated, he just does not seem to be a big game coach. A good coach would have had his team ready to kill these guys. You want a lesson in motivation, look at the ravens when they came to play the last game against Dallas at Texas Stadium. You heard the players saying thats all we talked about all week was Dallas thinking we were some patsy or cream puff. Well, was there any phucking doubt the ravens came to play saturday night? HELL NO!!! They smashed the Cowboys in the face and kept pounding all night long. THAT team was motivated. And YES, I absolutely throw blame for this at Urlacher, Brown, Harris, and ANY other veteran on this team who for whatever reason is afraid to assume the role of team leader. Urlacher should have assumed that role. He's the so-called face of the franchise and what was he doing? Nothing. If nothing else Brown should have taken it but I don't know whether this coaching staff has neutured this team to the point where nobody wants that role. Whatever is going on in that lockerroom needs fixing real damn quick.

 

Sorry but as happy as I am with the win, somehow it feels like we've sold our soul to the devil and any problems will be masked by a victory.