Thoughts from the game

[jason]

Guys...take it for what it's worth...

 

THE OFFENSE

1) Turner still out-thinks himself. I called more Bears' plays before they happened than I care to mention. If I can do it, surely the other teams can do it. That's the major reason, IMHO, why the Bears offense is not scary. It's very rarely a surprise. The majority of the time when our offensive players do well, it's in spite of Turner, because the plays are very predictable.

1a) Playing AP makes no sense. Kevin Jones is active; let him get the carries when resting Forte.

1b) Booker drop, Hester at least on drop. I am sick of this argument that the other WRs can't "crack the starting lineup". At a certain point, and it's well past that point, the offensive coordinator has to be blamed for not bringing in another player when the guy who is starting isn't doing the job. Conveniently enough, Bennett was active...but of course he wasn't used.

1c) The ball-fake, TD pass to Olsen, even though it was incredibly predictable, worked because there was fake handoff to the RB. This type of play-action doesn't happen enough. At one point there were several successful runs, and the GB defense was primed for a PAPass. Too bad Turner didn't see it.

 

THE DEFENSE

2) Speaking of doing something in spite of a coordinator, Babich is a moron. He does things that work, then abandons them when the team needs them most. He still doesn't understand that it's OK to step on another team's throat. He still doesn't understand that he needs to mix up the DLine play to get pressure (which it didn't - only pressure came via blitz). He still doesn't understand, for the life of me because I sure as hell called the play at least five times before it happened, that the opposing offense is going to abuse the slant route if the DB is eight yards back. Babich needs to be fired. Period. He completely mismanages the talent he has on defense, and leaves very good players in absolute voids during plays because of horrible design.

 

THE EXTRAS

-I was going to go shirtless, but when wind chill got to -18, I called it off. Being cold is fine, cold weather injuries are not.

 

-I didn't warm up until easily 4 hours after the game while driving back to Alabama.

 

-A guy next to me took two drinks of his beer, put it down, and the next time he grabbed it, half of the beer was frozen.

 

-I had 7 cups of hot chocolate, none of which were hot by the time I had the last drink.

 

-The jalapeno hot dogs and the chili did a better job of warming us up than the hot chocolate did.

 

-Several of the Packers players exude a confidence (cockiness?) that they shouldn't have. During crucial moments of the game, you could see them nodding their heads, almost taunting the crowd. At other times, it was easily apparent that several weren't even paying attention to the game, and probably didn't even know the score. This was serious insight into why they have fallen the second half of the season.

 

-Johnny Jolly is a complete bitch. Several of us were ragging him in a friendly nature, telling him he was weak because he was practically having sex with the portable heaters near the bench (remember, two friends of mine were shirtless). He looks at us, and tauntingly waives us on to the field, as if we were allowed. After that, he starts to grab his crotch and mouth what appeared to be "freak you". Somewhere in the early third quarter, Jolly has a tantrum while leaving the field, and he throws his helmet. Of course it hit someone. Jolly didn't apologize. Then the pitiful team helper coat guy asks Jolly if he wants his coat. Jolly treats him like a king treats a peasant, waiving him away with a backhand movement. Later, when Orton threw an INT - which was not the result of pressure at all, just a bad read by Orton - Jolly comes back to the bench and yells into the crowd, "I don't hear you now!" Finally, after the Bears go down and score the tying TD, Jolly "suddenly" gets an "injury". WTFever. The only thing injured was his pride. He just didn't want to come back to his spot and face the thunder from a group of about, by then, 15 people ready to give him the business. All of this comes as no surprise to anyone who remembers this:

Jolly meets the law

 

-Conversely, Charles Woodson seems like a composed, class act.

 

-My friends and I are at least partially responsible for the Mason Crosby miscues. We were yelling at him for the entire second half, and it unequivocally had an affect on him. You could tell he wanted to say something to us, but chose not to. But anyone being screamed at for 2 hours will get upset. It wasn't just random heckling; it was highly-focused, concentrated heckling. During time outs, when the Bears were on offense, when the Bears were on defense, when there were instant replays. He was facing the vocal barrage similar to what a young private faces in Basic Training; except, there were many more fans than there are drill sergeants. When he missed the first one, all you could hear was stuff like, "The High School kid made a 40 yarder at halftime!" and "If the Packers lose it's all on your shoulders!" One guy - who got a warning from security - told Crosby that he was going to "gut him" (obviously over the line). And when the Packers were moving into position for the final FG attempt in regulation, it was absolutely relentless. He made eye contact once or twice, and heard nothing but negativity spewing from our section of rowdy hecklers. There is no doubt in mind that we made an impact into his head, and we pulled off what was essentially a fan version of "icing the kicker".

[madlithuanian]

Great points!

 

...and thanks for harassing Crosby!

 

Guys...take it for what it's worth...

 

THE OFFENSE

1) Turner still out-thinks himself. I called more Bears' plays before they happened than I care to mention. If I can do it, surely the other teams can do it. That's the major reason, IMHO, why the Bears offense is not scary. It's very rarely a surprise. The majority of the time when our offensive players do well, it's in spite of Turner, because the plays are very predictable.

1a) Playing AP makes no sense. Kevin Jones is active; let him get the carries when resting Forte.

1b) Booker drop, Hester at least on drop. I am sick of this argument that the other WRs can't "crack the starting lineup". At a certain point, and it's well past that point, the offensive coordinator has to be blamed for not bringing in another player when the guy who is starting isn't doing the job. Conveniently enough, Bennett was active...but of course he wasn't used.

1c) The ball-fake, TD pass to Olsen, even though it was incredibly predictable, worked because there was fake handoff to the RB. This type of play-action doesn't happen enough. At one point there were several successful runs, and the GB defense was primed for a PAPass. Too bad Turner didn't see it.

 

THE DEFENSE

2) Speaking of doing something in spite of a coordinator, Babich is a moron. He does things that work, then abandons them when the team needs them most. He still doesn't understand that it's OK to step on another team's throat. He still doesn't understand that he needs to mix up the DLine play to get pressure (which it didn't - only pressure came via blitz). He still doesn't understand, for the life of me because I sure as hell called the play at least five times before it happened, that the opposing offense is going to abuse the slant route if the DB is eight yards back. Babich needs to be fired. Period. He completely mismanages the talent he has on defense, and leaves very good players in absolute voids during plays because of horrible design.

 

THE EXTRAS

-I was going to go shirtless, but when wind chill got to -18, I called it off. Being cold is fine, cold weather injuries are not.

 

-I didn't warm up until easily 4 hours after the game while driving back to Alabama.

 

-A guy next to me took two drinks of his beer, put it down, and the next time he grabbed it, half of the beer was frozen.

 

-I had 7 cups of hot chocolate, none of which were hot by the time I had the last drink.

 

-The jalapeno hot dogs and the chili did a better job of warming us up than the hot chocolate did.

 

-Several of the Packers players exude a confidence (cockiness?) that they shouldn't have. During crucial moments of the game, you could see them nodding their heads, almost taunting the crowd. At other times, it was easily apparent that several weren't even paying attention to the game, and probably didn't even know the score. This was serious insight into why they have fallen the second half of the season.

 

-Johnny Jolly is a complete bitch. Several of us were ragging him in a friendly nature, telling him he was weak because he was practically having sex with the portable heaters near the bench (remember, two friends of mine were shirtless). He looks at us, and tauntingly waives us on to the field, as if we were allowed. After that, he starts to grab his crotch and mouth what appeared to be "freak you". Somewhere in the early third quarter, Jolly has a tantrum while leaving the field, and he throws his helmet. Of course it hit someone. Jolly didn't apologize. Then the pitiful team helper coat guy asks Jolly if he wants his coat. Jolly treats him like a king treats a peasant, waiving him away with a backhand movement. Later, when Orton threw an INT - which was not the result of pressure at all, just a bad read by Orton - Jolly comes back to the bench and yells into the crowd, "I don't hear you now!" Finally, after the Bears go down and score the tying TD, Jolly "suddenly" gets an "injury". WTFever. The only thing injured was his pride. He just didn't want to come back to his spot and face the thunder from a group of about, by then, 15 people ready to give him the business. All of this comes as no surprise to anyone who remembers this:

Jolly meets the law

 

-Conversely, Charles Woodson seems like a composed, class act.

 

-My friends and I are at least partially responsible for the Mason Crosby miscues. We were yelling at him for the entire second half, and it unequivocally had an affect on him. You could tell he wanted to say something to us, but chose not to. But anyone being screamed at for 2 hours will get upset. It wasn't just random heckling; it was highly-focused, concentrated heckling. During time outs, when the Bears were on offense, when the Bears were on defense, when there were instant replays. He was facing the vocal barrage similar to what a young private faces in Basic Training; except, there were many more fans than there are drill sergeants. When he missed the first one, all you could hear was stuff like, "The High School kid made a 40 yarder at halftime!" and "If the Packers lose it's all on your shoulders!" One guy - who got a warning from security - told Crosby that he was going to "gut him" (obviously over the line). And when the Packers were moving into position for the final FG attempt in regulation, it was absolutely relentless. He made eye contact once or twice, and heard nothing but negativity spewing from our section of rowdy hecklers. There is no doubt in mind that we made an impact into his head, and we pulled off what was essentially a fan version of "icing the kicker".

[nfoligno]

1) Turner still out-thinks himself. I called more Bears' plays before they happened than I care to mention. If I can do it, surely the other teams can do it. That's the major reason, IMHO, why the Bears offense is not scary. It's very rarely a surprise. The majority of the time when our offensive players do well, it's in spite of Turner, because the plays are very predictable.

 

Early in the year I defended Turner, as I felt our offense was producing beyond their talent level, but as the season wore on and teams had a chance to watch film, adjustments were made against us, and yet we continue to do the exact same things. There is no creativity, and as you said, we are simply a totally predictable team.

 

1a) Playing AP makes no sense. Kevin Jones is active; let him get the carries when resting Forte.

 

Not sure when, but KJ went down w/ an injury.

 

1b) Booker drop, Hester at least on drop. I am sick of this argument that the other WRs can't "crack the starting lineup". At a certain point, and it's well past that point, the offensive coordinator has to be blamed for not bringing in another player when the guy who is starting isn't doing the job. Conveniently enough, Bennett was active...but of course he wasn't used.

 

You missed several drops. Booker, Lloyd and Clark each had a drop, w/ Bookers bouncing off his numbers. Hester had 3 drops, though one would have been a great catch and was far from a gimmie. Still, if it hits the mits, it should be caught. I agree, there is just no reason other WRs should not be getting an opportunity.

 

1c) The ball-fake, TD pass to Olsen, even though it was incredibly predictable, worked because there was fake handoff to the RB. This type of play-action doesn't happen enough. At one point there were several successful runs, and the GB defense was primed for a PAPass. Too bad Turner didn't see it.

 

They replayed and pointed this out on TV too. The fake left froze the LBs, which created the opening for Olsen. It was great. I think Turner did see it though, but assumed they would adjust to it, so it wouldn't work again. Isn't that how his mind works. If it works once, they surely will adjust so it won't work again.

 

THE DEFENSE

2) Speaking of doing something in spite of a coordinator, Babich is a moron.

 

No argument so far

 

He does things that work, then abandons them when the team needs them most.

 

I think the same could be said of all our staff.

 

He still doesn't understand that it's OK to step on another team's throat. He still doesn't understand that he needs to mix up the DLine play to get pressure (which it didn't - only pressure came via blitz).

 

I will say this. I saw GB often keeping extra protection back, meaning they would have 6 or 7 to block our four. On many plays, I saw 2 or 3 of our DL getting double teamed. What Babich fails to understand is, when teams keep extra blockers back, you need to send extra rushers and not simply expect your front four to beat their 6 or 7.

 

Another thing. I finally saw us stunt. Wale jumped over Harris to attack inside, while Harris took an outside move. GB's OL looked confused, and harris destroyed his man, forcing Rodgers to throw it away. It was beautiful, but I never saw it again.

 

He still doesn't understand, for the life of me because I sure as hell called the play at least five times before it happened, that the opposing offense is going to abuse the slant route if the DB is eight yards back.

 

Here is what kills me. We drop our DBs deep, but also put our LBs on the LOS, where they obviously just drop back on the snap. Normally, if you have a CB working well off the LOS, the WR might try to slant, but will also run into the LB. I am okay w/ that. But by combining the placement of LBs tight w/ CBs deep, we simply put both units in no mans land. It is a joke.

 

Babich needs to be fired. Period. He completely mismanages the talent he has on defense, and leaves very good players in absolute voids during plays because of horrible design.

 

Agreed 100%

 

THE EXTRAS

 

-I was going to go shirtless, but when wind chill got to -18, I called it off. Being cold is fine, cold weather injuries are not.

 

I'd call you a wuss, but you have no idea the amount of layers I would have been wearing. I have to wear a winter coat when it drops below 60 degrees.

 

-A guy next to me took two drinks of his beer, put it down, and the next time he grabbed it, half of the beer was frozen.

 

Now that is some ice cold bear And hey, has your friend never heard of Beer pops?

 

-I had 7 cups of hot chocolate, none of which were hot by the time I had the last drink.

 

You needed a plastic flask to "enhance" the chocolate.

 

-Johnny Jolly is a complete bitch. Several of us were ragging him in a friendly nature, telling him he was weak because he was practically having sex with the portable heaters near the bench (remember, two friends of mine were shirtless). He looks at us, and tauntingly waives us on to the field, as if we were allowed. After that, he starts to grab his crotch and mouth what appeared to be "freak you". Somewhere in the early third quarter, Jolly has a tantrum while leaving the field, and he throws his helmet. Of course it hit someone. Jolly didn't apologize. Then the pitiful team helper coat guy asks Jolly if he wants his coat. Jolly treats him like a king treats a peasant, waiving him away with a backhand movement. Later, when Orton threw an INT - which was not the result of pressure at all, just a bad read by Orton - Jolly comes back to the bench and yells into the crowd, "I don't hear you now!" Finally, after the Bears go down and score the tying TD, Jolly "suddenly" gets an "injury". WTFever. The only thing injured was his pride. He just didn't want to come back to his spot and face the thunder from a group of about, by then, 15 people ready to give him the business. All of this comes as no surprise to anyone who remembers this:

Jolly meets the law

 

Cool story.

 

-My friends and I are at least partially responsible for the Mason Crosby miscues. We were yelling at him for the entire second half, and it unequivocally had an affect on him. You could tell he wanted to say something to us, but chose not to. But anyone being screamed at for 2 hours will get upset. It wasn't just random heckling; it was highly-focused, concentrated heckling. During time outs, when the Bears were on offense, when the Bears were on defense, when there were instant replays. He was facing the vocal barrage similar to what a young private faces in Basic Training; except, there were many more fans than there are drill sergeants. When he missed the first one, all you could hear was stuff like, "The High School kid made a 40 yarder at halftime!" and "If the Packers lose it's all on your shoulders!" One guy - who got a warning from security - told Crosby that he was going to "gut him" (obviously over the line). And when the Packers were moving into position for the final FG attempt in regulation, it was absolutely relentless. He made eye contact once or twice, and heard nothing but negativity spewing from our section of rowdy hecklers. There is no doubt in mind that we made an impact into his head, and we pulled off what was essentially a fan version of "icing the kicker".

 

Great job. Next time, do you think you can get in Rodgers ear too?

[madlithuanian]

Those 2 points pretty much speak volumes...

 

Ineptness on O and on D.

 

They replayed and pointed this out on TV too. The fake left froze the LBs, which created the opening for Olsen. It was great. I think Turner did see it though, but assumed they would adjust to it, so it wouldn't work again. Isn't that how his mind works. If it works once, they surely will adjust so it won't work again.

 

 

Here is what kills me. We drop our DBs deep, but also put our LBs on the LOS, where they obviously just drop back on the snap. Normally, if you have a CB working well off the LOS, the WR might try to slant, but will also run into the LB. I am okay w/ that. But by combining the placement of LBs tight w/ CBs deep, we simply put both units in no mans land. It is a joke.

[jason]

Another thing. I finally saw us stunt. Wale jumped over Harris to attack inside, while Harris took an outside move. GB's OL looked confused, and harris destroyed his man, forcing Rodgers to throw it away. It was beautiful, but I never saw it again.

 

I've actually seen this a few times over the course of the last three or four games. Usually you can tell when it happens because it catches the other team completely off guard, and the Bears get a huge play out of it.

 

It's almost as if Babich thinks he has to save up his "secret" play for a big moment, unleashing it when the opponent least expects it...which makes no sense of course. It's like a boxer having a great jab, but refusing to use it until the tenth round.

[Mongo3451]

Thanks for the updates Jason and Conner(other post). Here's what I got from my front row view from the couch.

 

1) I love the MNF crew. It looks like they really hit on a good combination.

2) Orton has two things to focus on this off season. First, he needs to be able to go through his progressions without locking onto his recievers. Second, is the deep ball. He's missed Hester I multitude of times. This causes more trouble than just losing the down, because until he starts hitting these the opposing D just sits in the box and dares him.

3) There were plays that we line up 10 yards off the ball. I remember one play where Steltz turned his back to the LOS and was sprinting backwards before the ball snapped. He made it at least 25 yards down the field and a 20 yard pass was completed in the void he left. WTF was that? Also, agree with someone that said our LB's up close to the LOS and our DB's far back are not a good combo, as it creates instant reads and lanes for the QB and WR respectively.

4) I thought our DL played well enough, but would have like to see a couple of sack.

5) Danielle Manning has grown up. He is a f@cking animal returning kicks and coming off the corner. Now we just need him to learn how to give Rodgers whiplash instead of tha weak takedown. (It's a matter of timing and attitude )

6) Garza is the uncontested weakest link on our OL. If Williams knows the playbook, I'd start him there next week.

7) I know the field conditions were horrible, but Turner needs to call more than inside counters and traps. The Packers not only played 8 in the box most of the night, but is was a compressed box at that. A couple of counter tre's, sweeps and a reverse or two would have gone a long way towards softening up the the cluster f@ck in the middle of the field.

 

I have more, but am still soaking up the fact that we beat the Packers and they have to suck on the fact, that if they had any heart they would have won that game.

[nfoligno]

I've actually seen this a few times over the course of the last three or four games. Usually you can tell when it happens because it catches the other team completely off guard, and the Bears get a huge play out of it.

 

It's almost as if Babich thinks he has to save up his "secret" play for a big moment, unleashing it when the opponent least expects it...which makes no sense of course. It's like a boxer having a great jab, but refusing to use it until the tenth round.

 

Agreed, but let me throw in another analogy. A pitcher has a particular pitch which is very effective, but he only uses it a couple times per game, and those times come against the opponents lesser hitters rather than against the teams top hitters.

 

That's the thing. If we simply saw stunts on 3rd downs, that would be one thing, but it seems like we see stunts used in non big play downs. When it is 3rd and long, and we need a stop, I don't see stunts. I see stunts on 2nd down, only to see us go weak when we then have then in 3rd and long. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe it.

[nfoligno]

2) Orton has two things to focus on this off season. First, he needs to be able to go through his progressions without locking onto his recievers. Second, is the deep ball. He's missed Hester I multitude of times. This causes more trouble than just losing the down, because until he starts hitting these the opposing D just sits in the box and dares him.

 

Earlier in the year, I felt he excelled in reads and working through progressions, as well as looking off his receiver. But he seems to have done a 180. We need to figure out why he seems to have regressed, and work him back to the former form.

 

As for the deep ball, I am of the opinion that, as much as anything, is a timing issue that simply needs more reps. I have no idea how often we practice w/ Orton throwing deep to Hester, but as rare as we see it in games, I question how much it is worked on in practice. Deep passes are among the most difficult, and require the most timing and chemistry between QB and WR. We need to really focus on practicing the deep ball to get Orton and Hester in cink.

 

3) There were plays that we line up 10 yards off the ball. I remember one play where Steltz turned his back to the LOS and was sprinting backwards before the ball snapped. He made it at least 25 yards down the field and a 20 yard pass was completed in the void he left. WTF was that? Also, agree with someone that said our LB's up close to the LOS and our DB's far back are not a good combo, as it creates instant reads and lanes for the QB and WR respectively.

 

Agreed whole-heartedly. Enough of the fakes. It doesn't work. Just position guys where they need to be to make plays, rather than moving them around, forcing them to spend all their focus on trying to get back into position. Enough running backward. We need our guys moving forward.

 

4) I thought our DL played well enough, but would have like to see a couple of sack.

 

I have said the same. I actually thought our DL was as active as I have seen them, but too often, we rushed 4 against their 6 or even 7, and that isn't going to get it done.

 

5) Danielle Manning has grown up. He is a f@cking animal returning kicks and coming off the corner. Now we just need him to learn how to give Rodgers whiplash instead of tha weak takedown. (It's a matter of timing and attitude )

 

Some on this board talked about how, as his confidence grew from the return game, it carried over to his nickel play. I had not noticed that before, but did last night. His play at corner, and not just in the blitz, has really improved.

 

6) Garza is the uncontested weakest link on our OL. If Williams knows the playbook, I'd start him there next week.

 

Here I have to disagree. I am not a fan of Garza, and feel the only reason he is not called out more is due to how poorly the rest of the OL often looks, but w/ that said, I am not sure he is our weakest link. Against GB, I thought Tait looked the worst. But frankly, they all stunk. Often I saw the DEs beaten to the outside, when Orton would try to step up in the pocket, only to be engulfed by the DTs. So while I think the entire OL is bad, I just do not believe Garza is the weakest link. I think Tait has been our weakest link.

 

7) I know the field conditions were horrible, but Turner needs to call more than inside counters and traps. The Packers not only played 8 in the box most of the night, but is was a compressed box at that. A couple of counter tre's, sweeps and a reverse or two would have gone a long way towards softening up the the cluster f@ck in the middle of the field.

 

Man, I just could not figure that one out. When we finally did toss it to Forte outside, and when Forte finally ran to the outside, it worked, but that only begged the question why we waited so long.

[Lucky Luciano]

Agreed, but let me throw in another analogy. A pitcher has a particular pitch which is very effective, but he only uses it a couple times per game, and those times come against the opponents lesser hitters rather than against the teams top hitters.

 

That's the thing. If we simply saw stunts on 3rd downs, that would be one thing, but it seems like we see stunts used in non big play downs. When it is 3rd and long, and we need a stop, I don't see stunts. I see stunts on 2nd down, only to see us go weak when we then have then in 3rd and long. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

here is another major problem i find on defense... time after time after time we move our backers up to the LOS. they either blitz between the center/guard or usually back out and move into a zone etc.

 

this is complete madness. babich AND lovie should be slapped silly for this.

 

1. we aren't fooling ANYONE with this crap afer 15 games. in fact we weren't fooling anyone after TWO!!

 

2. we have just neutralized our LB's from moving up and down the line to keep the OL guessing if, and more importantly, WHERE they may blitz from.

 

3. we have moved our LB's out of position to do what they are designed to do in a 4-3 defense. now our backers are moving backward at the snap of the ball rather than reacting FORWARD to gain momentum AND the correct angle to make tackles not only on running plays but short passing zones.

 

4. the blitzes up the middle DO NOT WORK 95% of the time we use it!!!

 

now our coaches many ask... where does it work more effectively? FROM THE OUTSIDE YOU FREAKIN IDIOTS!!! why do you think manning has had success from out there!! yet we continue to pound square pegs into round holes because they are too stupid to adjust or figure it out. we just continue to blitz up the middle with our backers already on the LOS and our opponents already having made adjustments to freakin BLOCK them!!

 

use some FREAKIN safety AND corner blitzes inside out to mix it up and keep them guessing for god's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nfoligno]

Man are you preaching to the choir.

 

How we "show" our LBs worked week one against Manning, and it was great to see, but it seemed like teams adjusted to it immediately, and it stopped working. And yet, we continue to do it. What kills me is, it seems like we stopped doing it a couple weeks ago, or at least only did it some, rather than a lot, but we seemed to get back into doing it constant once again.

 

1. we aren't fooling ANYONE with this crap afer 15 games. in fact we weren't fooling anyone after TWO!!

 

How we "show" our LBs worked week one against Manning, and it was great to see, but it seemed like teams adjusted to it immediately, and it stopped working. And yet, we continue to do it. What kills me is, it seems like we stopped doing it a couple weeks ago, or at least only did it some, rather than a lot, but we seemed to get back into doing it constant once again.

 

2. we have just neutralized our LB's from moving up and down the line to keep the OL guessing if, and more importantly, WHERE they may blitz from.

 

I get the idea that if you have all three LBs standing on top of the LOS, you are making them guess which LB, and thus which area, we are going to blitz from. A key reason I think this fails is, all three LBs are stacking inside. Thus, regardless who blitzes, if you simply have an extra blocker, like the RB, focuses on the interior, he can likely pickup which ever of the three LBs are sent.

 

3. we have moved our LB's out of position to do what they are designed to do in a 4-3 defense. now our backers are moving backward at the snap of the ball rather than reacting FORWARD to gain momentum AND the correct angle to make tackles not only on running plays but short passing zones.

 

EXACTLY. I have said as much for weeks, and have heard Hampton and Warren Sapp make the same comments as well. Apparantly, only our staff are ignorant of this. What kills me is, I remember a couple years ago, Lovie was talking about how the key to the LB position in our scheme is having the LBs moving forward. I believe he referred to it as always having the LBs running downhill. But positioning our LBs the way we do, we are making them run backward, or uphill.

 

What really bothers me too is, we are forcing our LBs to put all their focus and energy toward running back into their zones. It is nearly impossible for the LBs to continue to read the QB, watch what the WRs are doing, AND run backwards. How many times have we seen a QB throw the ball near our LBs, but with our LBs out of position to make a play. IMHO, this is because they are still trying to run back into their zone, rather than watching/reading the QB, and jumping on routes.

 

4. the blitzes up the middle DO NOT WORK 95% of the time we use it!!!

 

I agree, though I have to point out that Urlacher had a great play up the middle (among that 5%) against GB. He blitzed up the middle, and I guess GB expected him to drop back. He engaged the OG when he was on his heels, and literally drove the OG straight back, nearly into Rodgers. It was a power move I have rarely seen. But that play was the exception and not the rule.

 

now our coaches many ask... where does it work more effectively? FROM THE OUTSIDE YOU FREAKIN IDIOTS!!! why do you think manning has had success from out there!! yet we continue to pound square pegs into round holes because they are too stupid to adjust or figure it out. we just continue to blitz up the middle with our backers already on the LOS and our opponents already having made adjustments to freakin BLOCK them!!

 

This is what kills me. Lovie/Babich believe the pressure should come from the middle. I would prefer to see the pressure come from all angles. I just do not understand why we don't position our LBs off-tackle, and then blitz them off the edge. As our DEs take their wide angles, it would seem to open a hole for the LB to rush inside the OT. Or, we have our DE rush inside, and let the LB rush from the outside. Point is, it seems like when we do blitz outside, it is effective, but we do it so rare, it doesn't mean as much.

 

This is a prime reason why I believe we do have the talent on defense, but the problem lies in how our staff utilizes our talent.

[Mongo3451]

now our coaches many ask... where does it work more effectively? FROM THE OUTSIDE YOU FREAKIN IDIOTS!!! why do you think manning has had success from out there!! yet we continue to pound square pegs into round holes because they are too stupid to adjust or figure it out. we just continue to blitz up the middle with our backers already on the LOS and our opponents already having made adjustments to freakin BLOCK them!!

 

This is what kills me. Lovie/Babich believe the pressure should come from the middle. I would prefer to see the pressure come from all angles. I just do not understand why we don't position our LBs off-tackle, and then blitz them off the edge. As our DEs take their wide angles, it would seem to open a hole for the LB to rush inside the OT. Or, we have our DE rush inside, and let the LB rush from the outside. Point is, it seems like when we do blitz outside, it is effective, but we do it so rare, it doesn't mean as much.

I agree with most of the previos post, so I only pasted the part i disagree with. Most blitzes are effective between the tackles. My issue is with the main set-up and disguising of these blitzes. The coaches are trying keep lanes filled while blitzing which is very effective against draws and standard runs. But, are often easy to pick up by the OL, as nothing is truly overloaded. Also, Manning has been successful on his outside blitzes because they are set up by the inside blitzes. NFO said we should be attacking from all angles and that I really agree with, as it will keep the offense guessing. Also, I want our CB's pressing more on blitzes to eliminate the hot routes.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Good points. Way to go with Jolly. Collecting autographs is a hobby of mine and I can tell you what players are a**holes and which are totally cool, and like you said, I know Jolly is a d**khole.

 

I'm starting to love Manning. He's been good as a nickleback lately, obviously great returning kicks, and he looked good coming off the corner on blitzes the other night. Like you said, hopefully he knocks the QB good next time, though. Hopefully he starts with Shaub then hopefully into January with either Ryan, Romo, or Garcia.

[danimal99]

If someone told you so called experts the BEARS would be going into week 17 with 9

wins back on Labor Day. You would have said now freaking way.

Now you claim the coaching staff is lousy and talent is minimal.

 

You too freaking laughable for me to even take remotely serious.

 

FIRE EVERYONE !! You're funny !!!

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

If someone told you so called experts the BEARS would be going into week 17 with 9

wins back on Labor Day. You would have said now freaking way.

Now you claim the coaching staff is lousy and talent is minimal.

 

You too freaking laughable for me to even take remotely serious.

 

FIRE EVERYONE !! You're funny !!!

You're nuts if you think we have talent on the offensive side of the ball. We have Forte and Olsen.

[jason]

If someone told you so called experts the BEARS would be going into week 17 with 9

wins back on Labor Day. You would have said now freaking way.

Now you claim the coaching staff is lousy and talent is minimal.

 

You too freaking laughable for me to even take remotely serious.

 

FIRE EVERYONE !! You're funny !!!

 

Hey tough guy...check out this link. Some of us actually thought the Bears had talent pre-season, and the coaches were horrible to begin with. I still stand by the thought that this team could be incredibly better if not for very bad coaching.

[danimal99]

Hey tough guy...check out this link. Some of us actually thought the Bears had talent pre-season, and the coaches were horrible to begin with. I still stand by the thought that this team could be incredibly better if not for very bad coaching.

 

Maybe you can tell me who this coach is you could bring in that's better than Lovie Smith ?

 

I've yet to see a fan bring in a new head coach for an organization but you'll probably be the first. You can stand by what ever you want. Only 2 guys I know of who have won more games than Lovie after about 85 games. Interesting how Joe Fan always knows what's best when it comes to head coaches.

 

Oh and if we have no talent besides Forte and Olsen on O. How in the world can this team be going into the last game of the season with a chance to win the division ? Answer me that one Mr NFL ?

[Lucky Luciano]

I agree with most of the previos post, so I only pasted the part i disagree with. Most blitzes are effective between the tackles. My issue is with the main set-up and disguising of these blitzes. The coaches are trying keep lanes filled while blitzing which is very effective against draws and standard runs. But, are often easy to pick up by the OL, as nothing is truly overloaded. Also, Manning has been successful on his outside blitzes because they are set up by the inside blitzes. NFO said we should be attacking from all angles and that I really agree with, as it will keep the offense guessing. Also, I want our CB's pressing more on blitzes to eliminate the hot routes.

 

the blitz's by our LB's moving up on the LOS before snap is beyond pathetic. we have, as you stated, disguised absolutely nothing. if you look at the majority of our blitz's it is url (occasionally our safeties) trying to move up in the guard/center gap and getting dragged into the wash. all this does is make our defense play man coverage and open up zones for slants and curls. the major majority of the time we don't even HURRY the freakin qb let alone sack him.

 

in a 4/3 we should be running normal AND delayed blitz's up the middle using both our strong safety and middle backer while playing a traditional lineup for our backers. we should be alternating blitz's coming off the end using our outside backers like briggs and roach and compliment this scheme with our free safety and corners. if you remember back when we used marshall and wilson very effectively in mixing up where and when our blitz's came from off the edge. even stunting an outside backer at the snap has been successful in the past (of course lovie has never heard of this) and rolling him into the line between tackle and guard or the guard/center slot where the middle backer position was.

 

defensive line stunts are also effective in creating holes to blitz through yet we rarely if ever see it.

 

the bottom line is there is no creativity in how we attack an offense. any team in the nfl can watch one or two games of film and scheme against us for an entire season.

[CrackerDog]

Oh and if we have no talent besides Forte and Olsen on O. How in the world can this team be going into the last game of the season with a chance to win the division ? Answer me that one Mr NFL ?

 

Because the NFL is pathetic. This marginal team has no place being this close to the playoffs. What keeps us there is our suck shit division and the fact that while the Vikings are very talented, their coaches are probably the worst in the division. And they don't have a QB as good as Orton, which is friggen amazing.

 

Hey, in many ways I agree with you. Jason has always fancied himself a better GM than Jerry Angelo. But while I really like what Lovie Smith brings to the table, I can't stand either coordinator. And frankly, I'm giving Angelo one more year before I start bitching about him since he's actually had a couple of good offensive draft picks in the last few seasons.

 

This team still needs to build the O Line and find a WR or two worth a shit. If they can accomplish that this off season, the O is capable of winning games again. I think Orton will improve with better receivers.

 

The D is now the issue. Urlacher has a season or two left in him. Briggs is still playing at a high level and probably has longer than Urlacher at a high level. Vasher literally disappeared this year. Peanut is getting old. Our D Line is good but not great. Of course, I think Babich is partly to blame for that. And Lovie for hiring his lame ass.

 

I don't know what the future holds for Hester either. This coaching staff literally took the most exciting player I've ever watched play the game and turned him into a terrible WR. I mean, isn't it supposed to work the other way? Aren't players supposed to be "coached up" not down? Has a QB ever developed in Chicago? Orton is playing well but his deep ball is MIA and you could've put a damn skirt on him against Green Bay last week. He looked like he didn't want to be there, afraid of the cold. Hell, it was COLD but my 10 year old son and I hung in there! This coaching staff needs to develop leaders, particularly at QB. And I don't see it.

 

So, no, I don't have all the answers and I don't think I could do a better job than JA or Lovie, like some here do, but I do know this team isn't to be lauded because they're within striking distance of a playoff spot. The division was there for the taking, on a silver platter, and we're sitting here hoping the Giants don't take the week off. That isn't seizing victory in my book. That's the seasonal version of playing not to lose that I hated so much about Jauron.

[Mongo3451]

name='CrackerDog'

 

I really like what Lovie Smith brings to the table

 

The division was there for the taking, on a silver platter, and we're sitting here hoping the Giants don't take the week off. That isn't seizing victory in my book. That's the seasonal version of playing not to lose that I hated so much about Jauron.

 

The bold and the top comment kinda contradict each other, don't you think? How can you be a Lovie fan and NOT hold him accountable for how we play all the way down to Hesters transformation? Remember, "Trust me". Doesn't take an internet GM to figure that out.

[CrackerDog]

The bold and the top comment kinda contradict each other, don't you think? How can you be a Lovie fan and NOT hold him accountable for how we play all the way down to Hesters transformation? Remember, "Trust me". Doesn't take an internet GM to figure that out.

 

I love my son. Not sure how that precludes me from holding him accountable.

 

Must actually take an internet GM because I'm missing something.

[jason]

Maybe you can tell me who this coach is you could bring in that's better than Lovie Smith ?

 

I've yet to see a fan bring in a new head coach for an organization but you'll probably be the first. You can stand by what ever you want. Only 2 guys I know of who have won more games than Lovie after about 85 games. Interesting how Joe Fan always knows what's best when it comes to head coaches.

 

Oh and if we have no talent besides Forte and Olsen on O. How in the world can this team be going into the last game of the season with a chance to win the division ? Answer me that one Mr NFL ?

 

1. Fans don't directly bring the coaches, but they do indirectly affect how the business is run. If you don't believe that, then you're naive. A coach I would bring in is the DC from Philly, Johnson, a guy who has consistently put a product on the field that has intimidated and troubled opposing offenses. On the other side of the ball, I have said for years that I'd love to get Alex Gibbs, the guy who has turned numerous average RBs into superstars while coaching for the Broncos, and seems to be have made a significant impact on the Texans this year.

 

2. Lovie has a good record after 85 games. I won't even bother to research it because I know it's true. However, that doesn't mean he's not without serious fault. In a skilled person's hands, one set of ingredients can be turned into a delicacy. In another's, the same ingredients can turn into something noxious. I'd say Lovie's somewhere in between because he employs lesser "chefs" and doesn't hold them accountable for failures. He could be putting out a much better product.

 

3. You clearly haven't heard/read my posts on this board about the offense. I may be the only one, but I happen to think the WRs are a lot better than most give them credit for, and with proper coaching they could be substantially better. I'd say this holds true for the past several years. I'd also say that the improvement by nearly every WR that leaves the Bears supports that concept.

 

4. As for your question, how they are going into the last game of the season with a chance to win the division? Simple, look at my answers for 2 and 3. I think there is a lot more talent on this team than most think. I think that the coaches have done some good and bad, but more of the latter. I think that the players have simply done well in spite of the coaching inadequacies, and under a different set of coaches the Bears would be doing even better.

[Mongo3451]

I love my son. Not sure how that precludes me from holding him accountable.

 

Must actually take an internet GM because I'm missing something.

I'll put it in internet owner terms. You say you like what Lovie brings to the table, but you don't like the product of his work. That's like saying you love the BJ you get at the local brothel then bitching about the nut you busted. Service vs Product.

[CrackerDog]

I'll put it in internet owner terms. You say you like what Lovie brings to the table, but you don't like the product of his work. That's like saying you love the BJ you get at the local brothel then bitching about the nut you busted. Service vs Product.

 

I said:

 

This coaching staff literally took the most exciting player I've ever watched play the game and turned him into a terrible WR. I mean, isn't it supposed to work the other way? Aren't players supposed to be "coached up" not down? Has a QB ever developed in Chicago?

 

and

 

This coaching staff needs to develop leaders, particularly at QB. And I don't see it.

 

You took one line about my liking Lovie in general and blew off the rest. I realize this is probably just a tactic to get me to waste a lot of time arguing. I won't. The fact is, this isn't a black or white issue. There are a lot of things I like about Lovie. I think he can continue to grow and improve. But he's surrounded by mediocrity and this won't help him in the long run. And yes, Babich is his OWN damn fault! You'd think a guy Lovie promoted would be able to out-coach the guy he replaced but it hasn't happened. I put a lot of faith in that transition and let's put it bluntly, Riveria is ten times the coach Babich is. I don't love Turner either but at least he can say he's limited by the WR talent on the team. Which is true. Babich has the horses, for the most part, and this defense, outside of a few games, has been hugely disappointing and inconsistent. Getting no pressure at all on the QB for 90% of the game and then pulling a surprise party where you get 3 or 4 sacks in the next two series means you can create pressure but choose to hold back. Is this genius or stupidity?

 

My solution: Cut Babich and bring in a better D coordinator. Sign a legit WR via FA. Shore up the O Line some more. See if a healthy Vasher can return to form, if not, replace him. Move Hester back to ST only and if he fails, cut him. He's paid too much to suck. Use him occasionally in certain formations, as a surprise, and hey, here's a crazy idea, actually GIVE HIM THE BALL on one of those end arounds instead of just faking it all the time!!! Has he run it once this year? If you do these things and Lovie doesn't get it done, the window has closed on this team anyway, time to rebuild.

 

And for the dreamers out there, wake up, Cowher ain't coming to Chicago under any circumstances. Won't happen.

[Mongo3451]

I wasn't trying to bait you. I did read your whole post simply thought it contradictory. Anyway, you need your shit stirred from time to time. It gets things going. Thanks for the clarification.

[azbearsfan]

I said:

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

You took one line about my liking Lovie in general and blew off the rest. I realize this is probably just a tactic to get me to waste a lot of time arguing. I won't. The fact is, this isn't a black or white issue. There are a lot of things I like about Lovie. I think he can continue to grow and improve. But he's surrounded by mediocrity and this won't help him in the long run. And yes, Babich is his OWN damn fault! You'd think a guy Lovie promoted would be able to out-coach the guy he replaced but it hasn't happened. I put a lot of faith in that transition and let's put it bluntly, Riveria is ten times the coach Babich is. I don't love Turner either but at least he can say he's limited by the WR talent on the team. Which is true. Babich has the horses, for the most part, and this defense, outside of a few games, has been hugely disappointing and inconsistent. Getting no pressure at all on the QB for 90% of the game and then pulling a surprise party where you get 3 or 4 sacks in the next two series means you can create pressure but choose to hold back. Is this genius or stupidity?

 

My solution: Cut Babich and bring in a better D coordinator. Sign a legit WR via FA. Shore up the O Line some more. See if a healthy Vasher can return to form, if not, replace him. Move Hester back to ST only and if he fails, cut him. He's paid too much to suck. Use him occasionally in certain formations, as a surprise, and hey, here's a crazy idea, actually GIVE HIM THE BALL on one of those end arounds instead of just faking it all the time!!! Has he run it once this year? If you do these things and Lovie doesn't get it done, the window has closed on this team anyway, time to rebuild.

 

And for the dreamers out there, wake up, Cowher ain't coming to Chicago under any circumstances. Won't happen.

 

 

Even if Cowher did come to Chicago he would have to get rid of most of the defense. You think Url would put up with him screaming at him. Sorry. These defensive vets like having a coaching that is laid back and wont give them too much crap. Remember when Lovie first came in and he held a hard training camp and demoted players when they didn't show up for stuff. All the vets did was whine and back their boys up.