Orton named starter for 2009

[Connorbear]

Atlanta's defense??? New Orleans'??? Gimme a break. But, let's use their team as a case in point.

 

Last year, Atlanta was one of the biggest jokes in the league. Now, these guys are in the playoffs, finished 11-5 and almost won their division. I live in Atlanta, so I watch and follow them as well. Last year, everyone used to talk about how terrible their offensive line was. It's funny how a good quarterback/running back combination can make an offensive line look good. We have the running back. We just drafted a premier pass protector. We just need a "passer" for them to protect.

 

I don't understand why nobody wants a quarterback. Please don't say Garcia. I'm tired of the old rundown QB approach, ie Kordell Stewart, Chris Chandler. Again, let's draft a guy and develop him. Why is that such a crazy idea?????

Again, IMHO QB is not the issue on this team. Our overpaid, underperforming defense killed us this yr. Our horrible WR group needs an infusion of talent along with our o-line who did do an ok job this yr but is aging.

 

We have a QB to develop sitting on the bench right now - Hanie. However, if the coaching staff feels he is not a future prospect, I have no issues with drafting a QB. I simply would not draft one higher than the 5th round. Rex is gone. We will need a backup QB - that is why you go get a veteran. If not Garcia or Collins, then someone like Boller or Ramsey.

 

Peace

[akshaz]

We have a QB to develop sitting on the bench right now - Hanie. However, if the coaching staff feels he is not a future prospect, I have no issues with drafting a QB. I simply would not draft one higher than the 5th round. Rex is gone. We will need a backup QB - that is why you go get a veteran. If not Garcia or Collins, then someone like Boller or Ramsey.

 

Peace

 

Exactly how will this make or offense any better next year? Or will we be stuck with more of the same? We still won't have a QB capable of spreading the field, so Forte will continue to have to beat 8-9 men in the box. Orton will continue to over/under throw wide open receivers or hope for a pass interference penalty.

 

Yes, we need changes on defense. But, none of these changes outweigh the need at QB or will show the level of visible returns. The staff obviously doesn't believe in Hanie.

 

We seem to be the only team in the NFL that doesn't care about the QB position or give it much thought.

[akshaz]

No, the deep ball is not there because Moss isnt there, not because of Cassell. Cassell was, once again, handed the reigns to an undefeated team with an all pro line, wide reciever, and a great compliment of running backs. He doesnt have anything near that stability with the Bears.

 

It would be a disaster. But you can hope for it, thats fine.

 

Are you suggesting the Kyle Orton will all of the sudden hit a much faster Randy Moss downfield when he consistently misses Hester?

[balta1701-A]

Exactly how will this make or offense any better next year? Or will we be stuck with more of the same? We still won't have a QB capable of spreading the field, so Forte will continue to have to beat 8-9 men in the box. Orton will continue to over/under throw wide open receivers or hope for a pass interference penalty.

 

Yes, we need changes on defense. But, none of these changes outweigh the need at QB or will show the level of visible returns. The staff obviously doesn't believe in Hanie.

 

We seem to be the only team in the NFL that doesn't care about the QB position or give it much thought.

The problem here is that both of y'all are right. Kyle Orton's performance at QB was in the lower 1/3 of the league this year by almost every measure. Too many picks, completion %age of 58%, too low yards per pass.

 

But the annoying thing is, because the Bears were so weak at the other skilled positions (WR, O-Line still, although better than last year) it's just bloody hard to separate the play of the QB slot from the play of the guys around him.

 

People complain about Orton not putting the pass perfectly on the spot on the long throws to Hester. I agree. But on the other hand, there's more than a handful of those balls that also hit Hester's hands and bounced out. And even more importantly, there's even more times that Hester was simply double-covered down field and even a perfect throw wouldn't be caught unless it was Jerry Rice doing the catching.

 

And then on top of that, there's more than a few games where the O-Line was simply getting beat. Or when the running game just wasn't strong enough because the other team was stacking the box so much.

 

The fact is, Orton may not be a top 5 QB ever. But with the weapons he has, even if he was a top 10 QB, he'd put up some disappointing stats. But he may also simply be a #25 in the league QB.

 

So there are 2 choices. Either the Bears pick up another QB, blow virtually all their cap space on Cassell for example, and then see if he can come out and put together a better season than Orton with his WR Corps literally being made up of Hester, Bennett and whatever else the team finds off the scrap heap, or they can spend some money to bring in a WR and try to give Orton a shot.

 

Personally, I think the better option is the last one, but I can understand the argument for the first. I just don't think that your quarterback can work miracles if he doesn't have the roster around him to do it.

[jason]

I like the latter option as well. Build the OL, because it sucks. Add a WR. Give Orton a better chance to succeed.

 

But I think that also means the Bears should go after a mid to late round QB. So many possibilities. I still wish the Bears would have grabbed the kid out of Hawaii last year.

 

Chase Daniels

Mark Sanchez

Nate Davis

Graham Harrell

Drew Willy

 

Others?

[kyyle23]

Are you suggesting the Kyle Orton will all of the sudden hit a much faster Randy Moss downfield when he consistently misses Hester?

 

Not at all, Im suggesting Matt Cassell looks a hell of a lot better throwing to Randy Moss than Orton does throwing to Devin Hester. Im saying the deep threat that Cassell displays now is very similar to the deep threat that Daunte Culpepper mysteriously lost when Moss went to the Raiders.

 

Im suggesting that Matt Cassell is a complete unknown at this point because he is playing with a playoff made team that hasnt changed hardly at all from an undefeated season, and not worth throwing all the money in china at him.

 

Try and keep up

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I like the latter option as well. Build the OL, because it sucks. Add a WR. Give Orton a better chance to succeed.

 

But I think that also means the Bears should go after a mid to late round QB. So many possibilities. I still wish the Bears would have grabbed the kid out of Hawaii last year.

 

Chase Daniels

Mark Sanchez

Nate Davis

Graham Harrell

Drew Willy

 

Others?

Sanchez is a late 1st to mid 2nd rounder, and Davis could be a 3rd rounder.

[balta1701-A]

Sanchez is a late 1st to mid 2nd rounder, and Davis could be a 3rd rounder.

If the Bears aren't sold on Hanie, I could certainly see them grabbing a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round, especially since Orton only has 1 year left on his contract, and franchising a QB by next offseason will probably cost $15 million in cap room.

[akshaz]

The problem here is that both of y'all are right. Kyle Orton's performance at QB was in the lower 1/3 of the league this year by almost every measure. Too many picks, completion %age of 58%, too low yards per pass.

 

But the annoying thing is, because the Bears were so weak at the other skilled positions (WR, O-Line still, although better than last year) it's just bloody hard to separate the play of the QB slot from the play of the guys around him.

 

People complain about Orton not putting the pass perfectly on the spot on the long throws to Hester. I agree. But on the other hand, there's more than a handful of those balls that also hit Hester's hands and bounced out. And even more importantly, there's even more times that Hester was simply double-covered down field and even a perfect throw wouldn't be caught unless it was Jerry Rice doing the catching.

 

And then on top of that, there's more than a few games where the O-Line was simply getting beat. Or when the running game just wasn't strong enough because the other team was stacking the box so much.

 

The fact is, Orton may not be a top 5 QB ever. But with the weapons he has, even if he was a top 10 QB, he'd put up some disappointing stats. But he may also simply be a #25 in the league QB.

 

So there are 2 choices. Either the Bears pick up another QB, blow virtually all their cap space on Cassell for example, and then see if he can come out and put together a better season than Orton with his WR Corps literally being made up of Hester, Bennett and whatever else the team finds off the scrap heap, or they can spend some money to bring in a WR and try to give Orton a shot.

 

Personally, I think the better option is the last one, but I can understand the argument for the first. I just don't think that your quarterback can work miracles if he doesn't have the roster around him to do it.

 

 

I agree. But, only partially. Did you see the re-emergence of Muhsin Muhammed this year? How about Benard Berrian? Both of those guys were easily dismissed from the Bears and went on to have nearly 1,000 yards with their new teams this year. Berrian had to deal with freakin' Tavaris Jackson and still averaged more than 20 ypc because Tavaris can at least throw the deep ball when the opposing defense puts 8-9 men in the box.

 

Yes, we can use another WR. Yes, our WRs dropped plenty of catchable balls. But, until we get a real QB, I still don't think it matters much who we have at WR. After our game on Sunday, I watched QB after QB complete balls downfield. I especially remember a throw by Phillip Rivers to Antonio Gates that hit him in stride down the field. I thought to myself, "there's no way Orton can complete that pass". Therein lies the problem. Defensive Coordinators watch the film. They know we cannot go downfield. So, they stack the line and dare us to throw the ball.

 

The only time in recent memory that we had a guy to do this was Rex on/off during 2006. As many mistakes he made, defenses still couldn't always stack the line against us; because every once in a while he'll hit that throw and make them pay. Ortan cannot make them pay. He'll miss that pass every time.

 

All this being said, I'm not throwing Orton under the bus. I think that he can be solid for short stretches. But, there's no way we should take the approach that he deserves to go into next season as the unquestioned/unchallenged starter.

[Connorbear]

I agree. But, only partially. Did you see the re-emergence of Muhsin Muhammed this year? How about Benard Berrian? Both of those guys were easily dismissed from the Bears and went on to have nearly 1,000 yards with their new teams this year. Berrian had to deal with freakin' Tavaris Jackson and still averaged more than 20 ypc because Tavaris can at least throw the deep ball when the opposing defense puts 8-9 men in the box.

 

Yes, we can use another WR. Yes, our WRs dropped plenty of catchable balls. But, until we get a real QB, I still don't think it matters much who we have at WR. After our game on Sunday, I watched QB after QB complete balls downfield. I especially remember a throw by Phillip Rivers to Antonio Gates that hit him in stride down the field. I thought to myself, "there's no way Orton can complete that pass". Therein lies the problem. Defensive Coordinators watch the film. They know we cannot go downfield. So, they stack the line and dare us to throw the ball.

 

The only time in recent memory that we had a guy to do this was Rex on/off during 2006. As many mistakes he made, defenses still couldn't always stack the line against us; because every once in a while he'll hit that throw and make them pay. Ortan cannot make them pay. He'll miss that pass every time.

 

All this being said, I'm not throwing Orton under the bus. I think that he can be solid for short stretches. But, there's no way we should take the approach that he deserves to go into next season as the unquestioned/unchallenged starter.

Jackson started 5 or 6 games for the Vikings. It was Ferotte most of the yr.

 

Moose had Delhomme throwing the ball to him. Check on Jake's stats this yr compared to Kyle. Very, very comparible and Jake has Steve Smith to throw to and Williams/Stewart in the backfield. I can remember several times Delhomme throwing the ball up and Smith taking the ball from the defender. We do not have a receiver that can do that. Get one of those receivers and then lets see Kyle does.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/jakedelhomme/profile?id=DEL367367

 

Peace

[kyyle23]

bernard berrian wasnt "easily dismissed" from the Bears. the Vikings overbid on him and the Bears didnt want to match the ridiculous contract he got

[akshaz]

Jackson started 5 or 6 games for the Vikings. It was Ferotte most of the yr.

 

Moose had Delhomme throwing the ball to him. Check on Jake's stats this yr compared to Kyle. Very, very comparible and Jake has Steve Smith to throw to and Williams/Stewart in the backfield. I can remember several times Delhomme throwing the ball up and Smith taking the ball from the defender. We do not have a receiver that can do that. Get one of those receivers and then lets see Kyle does.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/jakedelhomme/profile?id=DEL367367

 

Peace

 

Man, it's a shame that we're reduced to defending Kyle against comparisons to Gus Ferotte. However, I think that we all know that Gus is nobody's answer. Minnesota went back to Tavaris when both were healthy.

 

As far as Jake Delhomme, it's not even close. Kyle is nowhere near this guy's level. Delhomme is a Pro-Bowl qb and a proven winner. It's not just about stats. Kyle simply can't make the throws that Jake does. Steve Smith at least has a ball there to catch. If we had Steve Smith, he'd never get the ball.

[akshaz]

bernard berrian wasnt "easily dismissed" from the Bears. the Vikings overbid on him and the Bears didnt want to match the ridiculous contract he got

 

We decided early on that we weren't going to spend any significant money to re-sign him.

 

Now, I'm not really saying that was a good/bad decision. I was just making a point that he's been productive with Tavaris Jackson and Gus Ferotte. These guys are no game breakers. We always blame our problems on bad WRs but don't really give enough urgency to the QB position. There are several former Bear WRs having productive careers around the NFL.

 

For some reason, we gave up on all of them and never really looked at the QB position.

[kyyle23]

We decided early on that we weren't going to spend any significant money to re-sign him.

 

Now, I'm not really saying that was a good/bad decision. I was just making a point that he's been productive with Tavaris Jackson and Gus Ferotte. These guys are no game breakers. We always blame our problems on bad WRs but don't really give enough urgency to the QB position. There are several former Bear WRs having productive careers around the NFL.

 

For some reason, we gave up on all of them and never really looked at the QB position.

 

this is simply not true, Berrian got BOUGHT. Thats all there is to it, he got offered a tremendous amount of money, and the Bears decided to invest that money elsewhere, and that became Tommy Harris, Lance Briggs, or Devin Hester. he was good, but not worth the great money he got.

 

And the other guys that the Bears gave up on, Wade, Gage, Bradley, never showed anything while with the Bears. Its so easy to say "wow look how they are doing now" but I totally remember these players looking like complete crap while with the Bears, dropping, fumbling, half-assing.

 

Moose is another guy who looked like he was disinterested and couldnt hold on to the ball when it mattered. Always pointing fingers and such, that guy was brought in to be a leader and he was divisive. He can do well in Carolina because he isnt the main focus, he is the sidekick.

[Connorbear]

Man, it's a shame that we're reduced to defending Kyle against comparisons to Gus Ferotte. However, I think that we all know that Gus is nobody's answer. Minnesota went back to Tavaris when both were healthy.

 

As far as Jake Delhomme, it's not even close. Kyle is nowhere near this guy's level. Delhomme is a Pro-Bowl qb and a proven winner. It's not just about stats. Kyle simply can't make the throws that Jake does. Steve Smith at least has a ball there to catch. If we had Steve Smith, he'd never get the ball.

I was comparing the stats for Kyle and Jake this yr, not Delhomme's career.

 

Peace