Thoughts on the WRs

[nfoligno]

I talk about this briefly in another post, but after going to the game, I saw things I never saw (at least not to this extent). This is NOT a post to excuse Orton, or Turner, or anyone else. I am just talking about the WRs.

 

First, everyone talks so much about Hesters speed, but what I saw yesterday, that speed is not realized. Does everyone realize just how much he gets jammed at the LOS? Worse, does everyone realize how difficult of a time he has beating the jam? I was a bit surprised by this, as receivers w/ upper tier speed are usually given more cushion, but Hester is shown little respect. Once he does get get off the LOS, he doesn't get separation. On the short passes, if you notice, he usually has a DB on him, but makes a good move after the catch to get free. He also may look open downfield, but it takes forever for him to break free of the DB on those routes.

 

Many talk about Orton's inaccurate passes downfield. I have always thought it was more about timing. After watching the Houston game, I believe this even more. As fans, talking about our CBs, what do we always say. We want our CBs to jam the receivers at the LOS, as it (among other things) breaks up the timing w/ the QB. Well, it appears that is what defenses are doing to us. If Hester struggles to get off teh LOS, then the timing of the pattern is also going to be off.

 

Now, I focus first on Hester because, frankly, he is the only one of the group that seems to have a future. I am not talking about Bennett, as there is little to nothing to evaluate.

 

Booker is done. He was one of my favorites, and I was thrilled to get him, but he is done. He too struggles to beat the press, is slower in his route running, doesn't get separation from the DB, and then drops the ball.

 

Lloyd - Lloyd does a bit better beating the press than the others, but what I notices was Lloyd runs very rounded routes, which may be a big reason why he is so often covered. It is when the WR makes sharp breaks they gain separation, but when a WR rounds out the routes, they allow the DB to change direction w/ them more easily. That is what I saw Lloyd doing.

 

Davis- Ironically, he seemed the best of all our WRs at (a) beating the press ( making sharp breaks and © getting separation from the DB. Unfortunately, he has shown the worst hands of the group. Go figure.

 

I fully agree w/ Jason that OL is our top need (wow was that unit awful) but after watching them live, I believe more than ever that WR ranks a VERY close second. Lloyd is gone (FA) regardless. Booker is done. Davis may stick, but as a teamer. Bennett? I liked him in the draft too, but how much development should we honestly expect, based on past coaching and develop we have seen at the position. Hester is the only one who I think has shown promise, but until we get a MUCH better WR to play opposite him, I question how far we will ever see him go.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I talk about this briefly in another post, but after going to the game, I saw things I never saw (at least not to this extent). This is NOT a post to excuse Orton, or Turner, or anyone else. I am just talking about the WRs.

 

First, everyone talks so much about Hesters speed, but what I saw yesterday, that speed is not realized. Does everyone realize just how much he gets jammed at the LOS? Worse, does everyone realize how difficult of a time he has beating the jam? I was a bit surprised by this, as receivers w/ upper tier speed are usually given more cushion, but Hester is shown little respect. Once he does get get off the LOS, he doesn't get separation. On the short passes, if you notice, he usually has a DB on him, but makes a good move after the catch to get free. He also may look open downfield, but it takes forever for him to break free of the DB on those routes.

 

Many talk about Orton's inaccurate passes downfield. I have always thought it was more about timing. After watching the Houston game, I believe this even more. As fans, talking about our CBs, what do we always say. We want our CBs to jam the receivers at the LOS, as it (among other things) breaks up the timing w/ the QB. Well, it appears that is what defenses are doing to us. If Hester struggles to get off teh LOS, then the timing of the pattern is also going to be off.

 

Now, I focus first on Hester because, frankly, he is the only one of the group that seems to have a future. I am not talking about Bennett, as there is little to nothing to evaluate.

 

Booker is done. He was one of my favorites, and I was thrilled to get him, but he is done. He too struggles to beat the press, is slower in his route running, doesn't get separation from the DB, and then drops the ball.

 

Lloyd - Lloyd does a bit better beating the press than the others, but what I notices was Lloyd runs very rounded routes, which may be a big reason why he is so often covered. It is when the WR makes sharp breaks they gain separation, but when a WR rounds out the routes, they allow the DB to change direction w/ them more easily. That is what I saw Lloyd doing.

 

Davis- Ironically, he seemed the best of all our WRs at (a) beating the press ( making sharp breaks and © getting separation from the DB. Unfortunately, he has shown the worst hands of the group. Go figure.

 

I fully agree w/ Jason that OL is our top need (wow was that unit awful) but after watching them live, I believe more than ever that WR ranks a VERY close second. Lloyd is gone (FA) regardless. Booker is done. Davis may stick, but as a teamer. Bennett? I liked him in the draft too, but how much development should we honestly expect, based on past coaching and develop we have seen at the position. Hester is the only one who I think has shown promise, but until we get a MUCH better WR to play opposite him, I question how far we will ever see him go.

Completely agree with everything you said.

 

I think going into next year, we must sign Houshmanzadeh or trade for Boldin, move Davis to ST, bring on Bennett way more then what he was used this year just to see what he can (or can't) do, say adios to Booker, and possibly bring back Lloyd on a 1 or 2 year deal worth about 2 million per.

 

1 Housh/Boldin

2 Hester

3 Lloyd

4 Bennett

 

Not that bad, assuming Bennett can catch the ball like he did at Vandy and not how he did in the preseason.

[nfoligno]

Agree on Davis and Booker.

 

Disagree on Lloyd. I like what I saw early in the year, but watching the game, more than any other WR, I felt he played like he didn't care. When I look at Booker, he just doesn't have it anymore, but he tries. When I look at Davis, he tries, but just isn't "that" talented. In Lloyd, I saw a guy rounded out his routes and going through the motions. He was playing like he was on the team w/o anything to play for, and even then, it is still inexcusable. The staff don't like him, and I think the feeling is mutual. I see little to no chance we would look to re-sign him, and frankly, that doesn't bother me one bit.

 

I love the idea of Boldin on the team, but do NOT want to go after him. I think Az will start w/ an asking price of two 1st round picks. Not saying they will get it, but (a) Wash offered two #1s for Chad Johnson last year and ( Dallas gave up a 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th (I think) for Roy Williams, who is not as good as Boldin. I think Boldin will net Az a 1st and 2nd, and maybe even two 1sts. We just have too many needs to give up a 1st, much less more.

 

TJ is a no brainer in my book as a player we should be going after. But I don't think we can stop there. I think we should also be looking to add another WR in the draft (first 3 rounds). We are not just one WR short. We are an entire WR unit short.

 

#1 TJ

#2 Hester

#3 rookie/Bennett

#4 rookie/Bennett

#5 Davis

 

 

 

Completely agree with everything you said.

 

I think going into next year, we must sign Houshmanzadeh or trade for Boldin, move Davis to ST, bring on Bennett way more then what he was used this year just to see what he can (or can't) do, say adios to Booker, and possibly bring back Lloyd on a 1 or 2 year deal worth about 2 million per.

 

1 Housh/Boldin

2 Hester

3 Lloyd

4 Bennett

 

Not that bad, assuming Bennett can catch the ball like he did at Vandy and not how he did in the preseason.

[Connorbear]

Agree on Davis and Booker.

 

Disagree on Lloyd. I like what I saw early in the year, but watching the game, more than any other WR, I felt he played like he didn't care. When I look at Booker, he just doesn't have it anymore, but he tries. When I look at Davis, he tries, but just isn't "that" talented. In Lloyd, I saw a guy rounded out his routes and going through the motions. He was playing like he was on the team w/o anything to play for, and even then, it is still inexcusable. The staff don't like him, and I think the feeling is mutual. I see little to no chance we would look to re-sign him, and frankly, that doesn't bother me one bit.

 

I love the idea of Boldin on the team, but do NOT want to go after him. I think Az will start w/ an asking price of two 1st round picks. Not saying they will get it, but (a) Wash offered two #1s for Chad Johnson last year and ( Dallas gave up a 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th (I think) for Roy Williams, who is not as good as Boldin. I think Boldin will net Az a 1st and 2nd, and maybe even two 1sts. We just have too many needs to give up a 1st, much less more.

 

TJ is a no brainer in my book as a player we should be going after. But I don't think we can stop there. I think we should also be looking to add another WR in the draft (first 3 rounds). We are not just one WR short. We are an entire WR unit short.

 

#1 TJ

#2 Hester

#3 rookie/Bennett

#4 rookie/Bennett

#5 Davis

I agree on this assessment. Wondering if any of the guys at the end of the roster may have a chance as well (Rideau and the dude who had played for the Colts previously).

 

I would consider bringing back Lloyd at veteran minimum if, and only if, we are not able to get someone better. If not TJ, then Henderson, Gaffney, or someone at that level.

 

Peace

[AZ54]

I agree with Hester not having the speed he showed in his first two seasons.

 

Booker... I was one of the few who wanted to cut him in preseason. I would have preferred to see what Rideau could do during the season than what we got out of Booker.

 

Lloyd, good feedback on the route running. Considering the fact he is one of those rare people who can piss off Lovie Smith I'd say he's gone no matter what.

 

Davis...he dropped too many balls but because we have nobody else to speak of at WR he'll be here next year. The question is how far down the depth chart will he be? Hopefully we've upgraded enough that he's near the bottom.

 

Bennett...he has his work cut out for him but should be on the roster next year as I expect we'll add two new WR.

 

Housh in FA and there's an explosive WR named Maclin that we need to take a serious look at in the draft.

[nfoligno]

I just don't understand why anyone wants Lloyd back. I guess because he is as close as anything we have seen to a legit WR, but I just don't see it. I don't think the staff likes him, and I think the feeling is mutual. And the way I have seen him play, I think that feeling has carried over to the field.

 

I agree on this assessment. Wondering if any of the guys at the end of the roster may have a chance as well (Rideau and the dude who had played for the Colts previously).

 

I would consider bringing back Lloyd at veteran minimum if, and only if, we are not able to get someone better. If not TJ, then Henderson, Gaffney, or someone at that level.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

Housh in FA and there's an explosive WR named Maclin that we need to take a serious look at in the draft.

 

Maclin would cost us our 1st, if he is there, and I see no way we add a 1st round WR AND sign TJ Housh. I think it is one or the other, and I would rather get Housh, then draft a WR in rounds 2 or 3.

[Connorbear]

I just don't understand why anyone wants Lloyd back. I guess because he is as close as anything we have seen to a legit WR, but I just don't see it. I don't think the staff likes him, and I think the feeling is mutual. And the way I have seen him play, I think that feeling has carried over to the field.

You noticed the several conditions I had that would have to occur if Lloyd was to be brought back. Personally, I am hoping we get TJ and the point is mute.

 

Peace

[GreatScott82]

You noticed the several conditions I had that would have to occur if Lloyd was to be brought back. Personally, I am hoping we get TJ and the point is mute.

 

Peace

TJ Houshmenzadeh or bust!! Boldin will likely cost the Bears a 2nd round pick and we need every pick we can get to inject some youth into our aging defense.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Housh in FA and there's an explosive WR named Maclin that we need to take a serious look at in the draft.

 

Maclin would cost us our 1st, if he is there, and I see no way we add a 1st round WR AND sign TJ Housh. I think it is one or the other, and I would rather get Housh, then draft a WR in rounds 2 or 3.

If we sign a Houshmanzadeh, we'll take a WR int he 4th or 5th, not in the 2nd or 3rd, or atleast I hope so anyway. I still think Bennett can be a solid player.

[nfoligno]

If we sign a Houshmanzadeh, we'll take a WR int he 4th or 5th, not in the 2nd or 3rd, or atleast I hope so anyway. I still think Bennett can be a solid player.

 

I would say your are right on the 2nd. If we get an extra 3rd (as some believe) for Berrian, then I can see a Wr that high. The 4th may be more realistic though I agree.

 

I am not going to say jack against Bennett. Frankly, there is simply nothing to go on, and due to inept coaching, we have no idea even why he hasn't gotten more PT. W/ that said,

 

I do not think we are a player away on offense, or even specifically at WR. We don't have a group of talented WRs, but simply lack one playmaker. We have very little currently at WR. Bennett may be something, but we have no idea, and I just do not think we can count on him to the point he really factors into our draft plans. I think we need to add two starter caliber WRs, not just one.

[AZ54]

Again we lay out the problems with this coaching staff. We have a young guy Bennett who can't crack the lineup of nearly worthless WR we had yet we're supposed to rely on him for the future? I should go with the odds that the coaching staff is wrong once again and assume Bennett is a good WR. Regardless I'd still like to see Housh, Maclin, Hester as our top 3 WR next year with Bennett and Davis #4/5. Let Maclin learn for a few years and then take over as our #1.

[GrizzlyBear]

Completely agree with everything you said.

 

I think going into next year, we must sign Houshmanzadeh or trade for Boldin, move Davis to ST, bring on Bennett way more then what he was used this year just to see what he can (or can't) do, say adios to Booker, and possibly bring back Lloyd on a 1 or 2 year deal worth about 2 million per.

 

1 Housh/Boldin

2 Hester

3 Lloyd

4 Bennett

 

Not that bad, assuming Bennett can catch the ball like he did at Vandy and not how he did in the preseason.

Completely Agree. Take a speedster/ST for a later round pick.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

If we sign TJ, there's no way we take Maclin in the 1st. Period.

[Pixote]

If we sign TJ, there's no way we take Maclin in the 1st. Period.

 

So your saying we are only one WR away from having an effective WR corps? To be honest, I would have to agree with most articles we read on the net saying we not only do not have a legitimate #1 WR but have only marginal #2s. Most of our WRs, if not all, at this point in their careers would be considered no more than #3s on most teams, if that.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Good topic for the offseason, maybe next we can look at Oline.

 

Out of this years unit, the only guys that should be welcomed back into training camp:

 

Devin Hester - I watched him progress as the season went on, like Lovie said he's our #1 WR. I thought he was the best out of the unit, but that don't say much. Hester would excel with a true #1 opposite him.

 

Earl Bennett - Bennett gets the benefit of doubt because we didn't get to see him perform. For all we know, the kid will catch everything thrown his way (he did get the ball thrown to him against Hou, but missed)

 

Brandon Rideau - Rideau looked great in TC/Preseason, like Hass, he'll be our TC hero that we'll never get to see. Rideau has the combo of size/speed/hands, but he must be missing something for Lovie/Turner to leave him out (smarts/blocking)

 

Rashied Davis - I really like the Rashied Davis story and love his TD celebration. He busted his butt off in the offseason when he knew BB leaving would open a door and it definately showed. The only thing Davis forgot to work on last offseason was CATCHING THE DAMN BALL. I was more angry with him dropping multiple balls in consecutive games and thought Lovie should make a statement and cut the kid. Now that the seasons over, I hope he continues to work hard to improve and comes back to make it up to us fans/team.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats it from this unit worth keeping, Booker and Lloyd can knock on Minny's door and see if Berrian/Wade will let them in.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As for offseason moves, I will officially join the "Houshmanzadeh Club"

1 - T J Houshmanzadeh - sign to the 4 yr 50 mil deal or whatever it takes. He will be heads above the rest of the group.

2 - Tory Holt - news out of St. Louis is that Holt no longer wants to be a part of the Rams. This may have changed, b/c it might have been before Haslet took over. But keep an eye on this as Lovie may be able to lure him.

3 - draft a WR in rounds 2-4. Prerequisite is he must be 6'1" or taller and has ability to get seperation/catch.

[bradjock]

Good info NFO. A few things:

 

Hester: What you said doesn't surprise me. The few times I saw them live, I thought Berrian looked much faster overall. Yet with Hester it was his unbelievable ability to accelerate that makes him great.

 

Lloyd: Bear fans want him back because he's the 2nd best WR on the team and Orton seems comfortable with him. Who would we replace him with?

 

Rashied Davis: IMO he's a GREAT back-up. He can play special teams, and he's a "gamer." He's back because we'll need him.

 

Booker: Like you, I was optimistic. The speed being gone is one thing, but what about the hands??? Agreed he's gone. He'll probably sign with Carolina and have a huge season.

 

Bennett: When I saw him in training camp he didn't look as good as Rashied Davis. My guess is that this is why he didn't see the field much. At best, he has the potential to be an ok #2.

 

On signing Housh: Berrian signed for 6 years 43 million. Roy Williams signed a 5 year extension with Dallas worth 45 million. Since the FA WR market continues to be bare, my guess is that Housh gets much better then that. Do you really think he's worth paying that much? We regretted signing Moose, Dallas already regrets Williams . . . is it worth the risk?

 

My guess is that we look to the draft to fix our WR problem.

 

On a different note: When Turner came here he wanted WR's who could stretch the field. I wonder how much that had to do with Rex's arm strength. Since Orton's not great with the deep ball, do we look for more possession type receivers?

['TD']

On signing Housh: Berrian signed for 6 years 43 million. Roy Williams signed a 5 year extension with Dallas worth 45 million. Since the FA WR market continues to be bare, my guess is that Housh gets much better then that. Do you really think he's worth paying that much? We regretted signing Moose, Dallas already regrets Williams . . . is it worth the risk?

 

My guess is that we look to the draft to fix our WR problem.

 

Living in Ohio, I keep an eye on the Bengals, and I really think he is worth it. Chad Johnson was non-existant this year whether it be through injuries, suspensions, or just doing nothing in the games. Carson Palmer was hurting all year, and their running game really sucked. He still managed to put up a pretty nice season

 

I may be wrong, but I think last year when their team was healthier he was the leading receiver in the league. He's the one receiver out of all the ones available that I think will be worth the money. Guys like Boldin, CJ, Holt and so on my have more game breaking potential, but considering what he did this year I think he will be the least likely to disappoint.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

So your saying we are only one WR away from having an effective WR corps? To be honest, I would have to agree with most articles we read on the net saying we not only do not have a legitimate #1 WR but have only marginal #2s. Most of our WRs, if not all, at this point in their careers would be considered no more than #3s on most teams, if that.

Do I think we would? No. Would Angelo? probably. With so many other needs, Angelo will not go after a WR with our 1st rounder when we signed the best WR free agent. He'll likely go after one in the 4th or 5th.

[BearSox]

I would prefer to pass on Houshmandzadeh for two reasons: (1) He will break the bank and get a TON of money in free agency and (2) he will be 32 by the time next season comes around.

 

As for the others:

 

-Hester has the most potential and should/will be a starter next season. He made great strides this year and one can only hope he does that again this year.

 

-Lloyd... could go either way, if he's cheap. I see no problem if for cheap. He could be a weapon with his great hands, but he's a nancy.

 

-Davis, keep him around as a 4th or 5th receiver and special teamer. This was his best role, and we should return him to it (he was in this role at the end of the season as well, it seemed like).

 

-Booker, I love ya, but you need to be cut.

 

-Bennett, next year could be his year. Hopefully the reason for him barely seeing anytime this year will be the same reason Beekman didn't last year... they just developed him. He could turn into a solid slot guy, as he has runs very good routes and has great hands (well, at least at Vandy he did).

 

-Ridaeu, this could be his year as well. It'll be his, I think, 3rd year with the Bears in some capacity, and he has a chance to play a role. As of now, he's the only real big body possession type receiver this team has, and he has shown a lot in prior preseasons. I think next year he can be productive for us in a ST and situational role as a 4th receiver.

 

-Aromashodu, a body for training camp, I guess. Who knows. Same goes for Burgess and Broussard.

 

There's a couple decent, yet somewhat cheap, FA's I'd look at as well, notably:

 

-Bryant Johnson (I wanted him last season, and I really want him again this season. I still think he can turn into a very solid receiver)

-Michael Clayton (had a huge rookie season, but never the same, but made strides this season. Might be expandable since the Bucs no. 1 priority is to lock up Antonio Bryant, which they most assuredly will do)

 

Another guy I'd look to get is Torry Holt. He wants out of St. Louis, and whether he gets cut, or traded, we'd be wise to pick him up. It'd likely cost a 4th rounder to for him, but if we could get him to restructure his contract, it'd be worth it. He is about 33, but he is the best route runner in the NFL and just so savy. I'd love to have him. I would like to skip WR in the draft all together, as it's tough for a rookie receiver to make an impact, and we like ours to sit for a while anyway. Also, Holt would be a great teacher for Hester. What I'd like to see next year (as for our specialists go):

 

WR1: Holt

WR2: Hester

SLOT/2nd TE/FB: Olsen (sometimes Bennett as slot)

TE/4th Receiver: Clark (TE)/Lloyd/Rideau/Johnson/Clayton (4th receiver, up in the air, preferably some what of a possession and blocker type)

RB/5th Receiver: Forte

 

Not much of a change from this year, but Holt would make a world of difference, IMO. While we would have two quicker/speedier receiver, we make up for that with the TE's, and Forte. Also, hopefully Bennett develops into a weapon as well.