Brick out the door

[Connorbear]

Please take Bob Babich and Darryl Drake with you!!!!

 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/br...u_coach_ex.html

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

Good. No, strike that. Great. While I expected scapegoats, I truly felt Brick needed to go. He took over after the SB, and since then, what have we seen on our DL that is positive?

 

Despite the love, I still think Brown is his old inconsistent self, and Wale has only regressed.

 

Brick took over and had a rookie coming off a great season (Anderson) but Anderson has been a bust since.

 

Harris' play has gone downhill since Brick took over. Dusty never developed, and frankly, I didn't feel Harrison developed as much as I would have expected.

 

I am not saying it was all Brick, but key for me was his inability to develop our young players. I am thrilled he is gone.

 

Something from the article made me laugh/cry.

 

Smith is seeking to find his fourth defensive backs coach in six years, and when Haley departs he'll be looking for his fourth line coach in the same span.

 

4 DB coaches and 4 DL coaches in 6 years. At some point, does Angelo not begin to think the assistants are not the problem?

 

Please take Bob Babich and Darryl Drake with you!!!!

 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/br...u_coach_ex.html

 

Peace

[ChileBear]

Something from the article made me laugh/cry.

 

Smith is seeking to find his fourth defensive backs coach in six years, and when Haley departs he'll be looking for his fourth line coach in the same span.

 

4 DB coaches and 4 DL coaches in 6 years. At some point, does Angelo not begin to think the assistants are not the problem?

Found that to be damning for Lovie also. So many in, and no one can get the job done? Hmmm. Seems good evidence that Lovie has no clue.

[nfoligno]

Something else that bugs the hell out of me is our LB coach(s). We have a pair of pro bowlers at LB, so there really has never been much discussion about our LB coaching, but I have to question that area anyway. Urlacher was long developed before any recent LB coach entered the picture, and I think the same for Briggs.

 

While Urlacher and Briggs are great, what about the rest? Jamar Williams was supposed to be Briggs replacement, and yet do we see him other than special teams? Could he not play SLB? Okwo failed miserably. Remember Leon Joe?

 

But developing talent is not so much the big reason I am pointing out our LB coach(s). W/ Briggs and Urlacher, and before his downturn this year, Hunter, I understand it some as there wasn't much time to spread around to youth. My issue w/ our LB coach(s) is due to our LBs total inability to blitz. I saw a stat that showed we blitzed more than any other team in the league. Wow. And yet, look how many sacks we have to show for it. We blitz a lot more than people realize, but our LBs simply get held up at the LOS, and thus, if you are watching the QB, it doesn't look like we blitzed.

 

While the HC and DC obviously get blame for this as well, should the LB coach not also get blame for our LBs being so totally incapable in terms of blitzing.

 

Of course, as I type all this, it does come back to me who our LB coach was prior to Lee. Babich. Actually, Babich took over DC two years ago, while Lee only took over this season. I don't recall who our LB coach was immediatly after Babich was promoted.

 

Found that to be damning for Lovie also. So many in, and no one can get the job done? Hmmm. Seems good evidence that Lovie has no clue.

[Connorbear]

Something else that bugs the hell out of me is our LB coach(s). We have a pair of pro bowlers at LB, so there really has never been much discussion about our LB coaching, but I have to question that area anyway. Urlacher was long developed before any recent LB coach entered the picture, and I think the same for Briggs.

 

While Urlacher and Briggs are great, what about the rest? Jamar Williams was supposed to be Briggs replacement, and yet do we see him other than special teams? Could he not play SLB? Okwo failed miserably. Remember Leon Joe?

 

But developing talent is not so much the big reason I am pointing out our LB coach(s). W/ Briggs and Urlacher, and before his downturn this year, Hunter, I understand it some as there wasn't much time to spread around to youth. My issue w/ our LB coach(s) is due to our LBs total inability to blitz. I saw a stat that showed we blitzed more than any other team in the league. Wow. And yet, look how many sacks we have to show for it. We blitz a lot more than people realize, but our LBs simply get held up at the LOS, and thus, if you are watching the QB, it doesn't look like we blitzed.

 

While the HC and DC obviously get blame for this as well, should the LB coach not also get blame for our LBs being so totally incapable in terms of blitzing.

 

Of course, as I type all this, it does come back to me who our LB coach was prior to Lee. Babich. Actually, Babich took over DC two years ago, while Lee only took over this season. I don't recall who our LB coach was immediatly after Babich was promoted.

Hardy Nickerson was our LB coach last yr. Lloyd Lee is the coach now.

 

Peace

[Bears4Ever_34]

You would think atleast one of Turner/Babich would get fired wouldn't you? I'd love for both to be gone like I've said all along but Turner is probably safe because the offense still put points up on the board for the majority of the season (Was the highest scoring team in the league for a portion of the season) and because he barely had any talent to work with. If I had to switch one coordinator, offense or defense, it would be Babich. I think because of the fact we were the most blitzing defense in the league but still lacked pressure tells you all you need to know.

[nfoligno]

Hardy Nickerson was our LB coach last yr. Lloyd Lee is the coach now.

 

Peace

 

Forgot about Nickerson.

 

So we are on our 3rd LB coach, and looking to be on our 4th DB and DL coaches. That is some poor continuity.

 

This is just bad. LB is the only coach that doesn't draw heat, but IMHO, he should. It is embarassing how poorly this team blitzes, particularly from the LB position, and I just have to believe the LB coach has some responsibility in that regard.

[clnr]

Forgot about Nickerson.

 

So we are on our 3rd LB coach, and looking to be on our 4th DB and DL coaches. That is some poor continuity.

 

This is just bad. LB is the only coach that doesn't draw heat, but IMHO, he should. It is embarassing how poorly this team blitzes, particularly from the LB position, and I just have to believe the LB coach has some responsibility in that regard.

Sure there has been 3 LB coaches under Lovie but Nickerson left because of illness in his family and Babich got promoted so the comparison in turnaround on the position is not valid as I see it. However, a little more production on the LB position would be nice!

[nfoligno]

Sure we have 3 LB coaches but Nickerson left because illness in his family and Babich got promoted so the comparison in turnaround on the position is not valid as I see it. However, a little more production on the LB position would be nice!

 

Your right. The lack of continuity is not the same. At the same time, I feel there is still reason to question our LB coaching. In Lloyd Lee, we have yet another Lovie boy. Lee was a defensive scout (I believe) from TB when Lovie was their. Lee was hired as a quality control guy, who helped our here and there. I have not read about anything he really did to deserve a promotion other than being a Lovie guy.

 

I just feel that our LB coach gets a free pass due to Urlacher and Briggs, but should be looked at w/ a harder focus. In Lee's only year as the LB coach, urlacher has potentially his worst year as a pro. Further, while we blitzed our LBs a ton, the results were pathetic.

[clnr]

Of course! I want Babich gone and a new DC with some new coordinators come in. I hope that the lack of action is to see if Marinelli will come here or not and that Angelo is holding off the axe a while until that issue is resolved. And once it's done, something shakes out! It might be blind faith though

[bradjock]

The problem with our linebacker's blitzing is that seemingly every time we did, our secondary dropped back in coverage. Just off the top of my head, Matt Ryan & Kerry Collins both did that all game against us. They'd stare right at the linebacker, and throw a quick 9 yard pass before we could get close. There were times our lb's could go unblocked and still not get close.

 

That's why I personally don't blame our defensive line as much.

 

Of course it all comes down to the scheme . . .

 

 

 

But developing talent is not so much the big reason I am pointing out our LB coach(s). W/ Briggs and Urlacher, and before his downturn this year, Hunter, I understand it some as there wasn't much time to spread around to youth. My issue w/ our LB coach(s) is due to our LBs total inability to blitz. I saw a stat that showed we blitzed more than any other team in the league. Wow. And yet, look how many sacks we have to show for it. We blitz a lot more than people realize, but our LBs simply get held up at the LOS, and thus, if you are watching the QB, it doesn't look like we blitzed.

[BearSox]

While Urlacher and Briggs are great, what about the rest? Jamar Williams was supposed to be Briggs replacement, and yet do we see him other than special teams? Could he not play SLB? Okwo failed miserably. Remember Leon Joe?

Jamar Williams is really only a WILL. He skill set does not fit for SAM. I guess he could play there, but he wouldn't be able to succeed. Williams is just basically a real good special teamer, and a possible starter who's burried on the depth chart, but provides good depth.

 

But developing talent is not so much the big reason I am pointing out our LB coach(s). W/ Briggs and Urlacher, and before his downturn this year, Hunter, I understand it some as there wasn't much time to spread around to youth. My issue w/ our LB coach(s) is due to our LBs total inability to blitz. I saw a stat that showed we blitzed more than any other team in the league. Wow. And yet, look how many sacks we have to show for it. We blitz a lot more than people realize, but our LBs simply get held up at the LOS, and thus, if you are watching the QB, it doesn't look like we blitzed.

 

While the HC and DC obviously get blame for this as well, should the LB coach not also get blame for our LBs being so totally incapable in terms of blitzing.

A big reason why our line backers can't generate pass rush is because none of them really have any experience blitzing or any pass rush skills. And for our D right now, we blitz a ton, and we need to add personal that can blitz. We need to get a SAM who can effectively rush the passer. Roach is more of a take on blocker and cover guy, and Hillenmeyer is a combination of slowing down and injuries.

[BearSox]

The problem with our linebacker's blitzing is that seemingly every time we did, our secondary dropped back in coverage. Just off the top of my head, Matt Ryan & Kerry Collins both did that all game against us. They'd stare right at the linebacker, and throw a quick 9 yard pass before we could get close. There were times our lb's could go unblocked and still not get close.

 

That's why I personally don't blame our defensive line as much.

 

Of course it all comes down to the scheme . . .

 

Scheme is a HUGE part of it. We constantly blitz, but when you blitz so much, you need to play man coverage, and actually be good at playing man coverage, and we weren't.

[Pixote]

Scheme is a HUGE part of it. We constantly blitz, but when you blitz so much, you need to play man coverage, and actually be good at playing man coverage, and we weren't.

 

Maybe if we had a DC who could disguise our blitzes so everyone in the country watching the game didn't know what we are doing they would be more successful?

[nfoligno]

There are many parts to it. Scheme and coaching are a big part, as you mention. The Score today replayed, from after the first couple weeks, Madden talking about how QBs could see our defense pre-snap, and easily adjust. If the QB saw us in a cover two, it was a near automatic play for the QB. I am sure that is true in many areas as well.

 

I also agree the DL was often hurt by the scheme and how we used our secondary.

 

At the same time, I OFTEN watched QBs sit in the pocket for far too long, as our LBs were hung in blocks on the LOS. Think about it. Stats Inc., or whoever, said we blitzed more than any team in the league. Now think about how often our LBs got through the LOS. Even if the QB gets rid of the ball, if the LB got through, you would at least have seen more QB hurries or hits. But no. Most often we saw QBs standing tall, unfazed, after the ball was gone. It was not just our CBs or secondary, or how we played them. If a blitz is successful, the LB would at least be in the picture. But our LBs are blocked, plain and simple. They are hung up on the LOS and getting no where slowly.

 

So while I full well understand there are many factors, I yet still believe our LBs have been pathetic on blitzes, and feel our LB coach (another Lovie buddy) should be further scrutinized.

 

The problem with our linebacker's blitzing is that seemingly every time we did, our secondary dropped back in coverage. Just off the top of my head, Matt Ryan & Kerry Collins both did that all game against us. They'd stare right at the linebacker, and throw a quick 9 yard pass before we could get close. There were times our lb's could go unblocked and still not get close.

 

That's why I personally don't blame our defensive line as much.

 

Of course it all comes down to the scheme . . .

[AZ54]

Our best player on blitzes was DManning and we just fired his coach. Unless you count the fact that Lovie had to personally mentor him all year.

 

We play a cover 2 style of D with the personnel to go with that, lighter quicker DTs, lighter quicker DEs. We should not need to blitz like we do to get pressure. Behind that we're playing our DBs way back off the WRs so it's a QBs dream. LB are in tight blitzing or faking a blitz we leave the quick slant open all day. I'll gladly take that job. Point is if this style of defense is broken up front nothing behind the front four is going to save it. I'm on board with firing Babich and I'm beginning to suspect that Marinelli was offered more than just a Dline coaching job.

[nfoligno]

Our best player on blitzes was DManning and we just fired his coach. Unless you count the fact that Lovie had to personally mentor him all year.

 

We play a cover 2 style of D with the personnel to go with that, lighter quicker DTs, lighter quicker DEs. We should not need to blitz like we do to get pressure. Behind that we're playing our DBs way back off the WRs so it's a QBs dream. LB are in tight blitzing or faking a blitz we leave the quick slant open all day. I'll gladly take that job. Point is if this style of defense is broken up front nothing behind the front four is going to save it. I'm on board with firing Babich and I'm beginning to suspect that Marinelli was offered more than just a Dline coaching job.

 

But seriously, why should we have any more confidence in Marinelli? He has never been a DC or an in-game playcaller. The one time he had control, he was a massive failure. And I am tired of hearing, "well, its detroit". If Det stunk, but his defense was at least decent, that would be one thing, but his defenses ranked bottom of the league. I get some coaches fail as HCs, but are still great at a lower level, but I just have to question why we think he would be any better as a DC than Babich.

 

To me, this is just another matter of Lovie wanting to hire yet another buddy of his.

[Lucky Luciano]

The problem with our linebacker's blitzing is that seemingly every time we did, our secondary dropped back in coverage. Just off the top of my head, Matt Ryan & Kerry Collins both did that all game against us. They'd stare right at the linebacker, and throw a quick 9 yard pass before we could get close. There were times our lb's could go unblocked and still not get close.

 

That's why I personally don't blame our defensive line as much.

 

Of course it all comes down to the scheme . . .

 

it comes down to 2 things...

 

1. we don't have the player personnel to run the cover 2 correctly. we don't have any corners who can play bump and run, we don't have fast safeties (especially at free safety) who can cover, and NOW we don't have a d-line to rush the qb. yet with all this we see no changes in philosophy by our coaching staff on how to utilize the talent we do have.

 

2. MOST importantly, the cover 2 defense just plain doesn't work anymore and hasn't for the last 3-5 years. it's been figured out by offenses how to beat it. the problem is our coach is not good enough to change the scheme because it is all he knows. without it what can lovie contribute as a head coach? he knows nothing about offense and nothing but the cover 2 type of defense.

 

don't you think this is the main reason lovie keeps wanting to hire cronies who ran the same system as he did/does or is tutoring assistants under him to do the same?

[nfoligno]

1. we don't have the player personnel to run the cover 2 correctly. we don't have any corners who can play bump and run, we don't have fast safeties (especially at free safety) who can cover, and NOW we don't have a d-line to rush the qb. yet with all this we see no changes in philosophy by our coaching staff on how to utilize the talent we do have.

 

I have two different takes on this. The first is, I am not sure I agree we don't have the personnel to run the cover two. I am still a believer that the vast majority of our problem is Babich, and his inability to run our defense, than personnel itself. This same group of players carried the team to the SB only two years ago. This same group had a top 5 defense. This season, more and more, you heard players speaking out, and IMHO, they were speaking about against Babich.

 

You say our corners can't bump and run, but are you sure that is necessary for the cover two. Under Lovie, our corners have never even tried to bump and run, regardless what corners we are talking about. So are you so sure it is a matter of inability, or being told not to. Vasher himself said he lines up where he is told. As for fast safeties, all I can say is it is Lovie (Mr. Cover Two himself) who has always said the safety positions are interchangable in this system, implying you can use two SS', or at least not a true FS. I have always disagreed, but that is what he said his system uses. And finally, the DL. While I am not saying all our DL is pro bowl, I am saying they all have seemed to go downhill since Babich and Brick took over.

 

So I guess my point is, I still believe our issues on D are FAR more about coaching than simply about talent.

 

As to the second point, that our staff does not alter their philosophy, there is frankly no argument to this. Whether it is due to our not having the horses to run the scheme or not, it wasn't working, and yet we saw few changes. In fact, I would argue the changes we did see only made matters worse, like having our LBs standing over the DL.

 

2. MOST importantly, the cover 2 defense just plain doesn't work anymore and hasn't for the last 3-5 years. it's been figured out by offenses how to beat it. the problem is our coach is not good enough to change the scheme because it is all he knows. without it what can lovie contribute as a head coach? he knows nothing about offense and nothing but the cover 2 type of defense.

 

While I am not, and have never been, a fan of the cover two, I am not sure I would flat say it doesn't work. It has worked, and still can IMHO. Doesn't Carolina run a version of the cover two. Doesn't TB? It can work, but I think the key is a defenses ability to disguise. I mentioned yesterday, but the Score replayed an old (like from week 3) interview w/ Madden, who said QBs too easily knew when we were in the cover two, and would too easily adjust to a pass play that was nearly automatic. If we were in a cover two, it was an easy slant or quick out. If we were a cover one, the QB would hit downfield. Point is, I have seen other defenses use the cover two w/ sucess, but I just do not think our coaches are capable of doing that.

 

Now w/ that said, again, I am not a fan of the cover two. I think it can work, but you need the ideal personnel to run it, and a far superiour ability to disguise what you are running. Further, when I look at other teams that use the cover two, they do far more than just the cover two. They mix it up more, which I always felt we did w/ Rivera. I have read we actually use the cover two only about 30% of the time, so to me, the cover two is not the problem so much as simply the coaching as a whole.

[clnr]

And now Lee is canned as well! http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/sh..._coach_lee.html

[Lucky Luciano]

I have two different takes on this. The first is, I am not sure I agree we don't have the personnel to run the cover two. I am still a believer that the vast majority of our problem is Babich, and his inability to run our defense, than personnel itself. This same group of players carried the team to the SB only two years ago. This same group had a top 5 defense. This season, more and more, you heard players speaking out, and IMHO, they were speaking about against Babich.

 

i certainly will not be the one to say baboonich is not a major problem. but... while everyone is quick to point out our defense carried us to a superbowl in '06, our defense had GLARING weaknesses even before we made our run at a title. those specifically being our corner play AND us fielding only ONE safety (mike brown).

 

against top competition passing attacks our weakness at corner was compounded as was demonstrated in the superbowl with authority. the only saving grace was that our d-line was playing top notch ball and in many instances diminished our poor play (playing off the LOS) most of the season. so yea, denny green wasn't far off in his estimation of the scheme and talent we fielded. we were overcompensating in one area of defense for lack of talent in another.

 

i would like to emphasize the reason, again, why our corners play so far off the LOS. it is because they do NOT have the skill sets to play bump and run coverage NOT because lovie see's this as a viable solution to a defensive scheme. it was tried when lovie got here and was EVEN tried this season. peanut, vasher, graham and any other corner currently on this squad consistanly got/gets burned for big yards and TD's when they play it tight with speedy receivers. so the ONLY option left is to play back and hope you get a pass rush to compensate for this weakness and keep the receivers in front of you.

 

You say our corners can't bump and run, but are you sure that is necessary for the cover two. Under Lovie, our corners have never even tried to bump and run, regardless what corners we are talking about. So are you so sure it is a matter of inability, or being told not to. Vasher himself said he lines up where he is told. As for fast safeties, all I can say is it is Lovie (Mr. Cover Two himself) who has always said the safety positions are interchangable in this system, implying you can use two SS', or at least not a true FS. I have always disagreed, but that is what he said his system uses. And finally, the DL. While I am not saying all our DL is pro bowl, I am saying they all have seemed to go downhill since Babich and Brick took over.

 

unless everything i have read is incorrect, then yes,, it is very necessary. it only stands to reason. with the new 5 yrd chuk rule it is imparative to get your hands on the receiver on or close to the LOS. otherwise he has a guaranteed untouched route every time the ball is snapped in which case you are totally reactionary and the qb's timing is no different than in practice. our corners are starting out backpeddling and giving them a cushion between 5 and 10 yds, even in the red zone which is mindboggling, which they will and DO take nearly every time using slant routes, curls, go routes etc. not to mention any extra yards after catch.

 

the 5 and 10 yard zone toward the center of the field is where they SHOULD be moving the receivers into so they CAN be covered by the linebackers and deep safeties after disrupting their routes and timing. THAT is how the corners should play in the cover 2.

 

i have said this before a number of times and given links to confirm it. here is another one i just found....... http://phi.scout.com/a.z?s=67&p=2&c=630910

 

i don't totally agree with everything that this guy said (i still believe in order for the safeties to cover a lot of ground and even play up, strong, and drop into zones they need SPEED and good coverage skills!!) but the basics of the cover 2 are there.

 

So I guess my point is, I still believe our issues on D are FAR more about coaching than simply about talent.

 

i agree that there appears to be a lot more talent than was shown by our play for the last 2 + years. and YES i agree our coaches have failed even using this defunct type of defense to be creative or instructive enough to give us any edge at all! there is NO adjustments or tweaking any system we have seen from this staff except what they went over in practice which may or may not work for a single series or even leftovers from training camp. game adjustments for individual opponents and preparations are nearly nonexistant and THAT is definately a coaching failure.

 

While I am not, and have never been, a fan of the cover two, I am not sure I would flat say it doesn't work. It has worked, and still can IMHO. Doesn't Carolina run a version of the cover two. Doesn't TB? It can work, but I think the key is a defenses ability to disguise. I mentioned yesterday, but the Score replayed an old (like from week 3) interview w/ Madden, who said QBs too easily knew when we were in the cover two, and would too easily adjust to a pass play that was nearly automatic. If we were in a cover two, it was an easy slant or quick out. If we were a cover one, the QB would hit downfield. Point is, I have seen other defenses use the cover two w/ sucess, but I just do not think our coaches are capable of doing that.

 

sure it still can work at times. this "cover 2" system has been around since the 70's. it came into focus during the 80's - 90's to counter the west coast offense (specifically the 9ers). the problem with it is you have to mix aggressive play (i agree again) with this basic prevent type of defense to be effective or to "disguise" it as you say. you also need the correct personnel to run it effectively. we don't and that is why we give up those 6-10 yard passes nearly every down EVEN when our d-line is hitting on all cylinders. if you remember the 46 defense, the counter was a short 3 step drop and quick release (ask moreno if that works). that holds true when scheming against the cover 2 sets. the d-line just doesn't have time to get to the qb before he hits the slant/whatever for a good gain and ESPECIALLY when the receiver comes off the line untouched and has a pocket in the zone emptied out of defenders.

 

one final comment: yes we do use the cover 2 around 30%. that means we more than likely will use it with a 3rd and +5 down, in passing situations, against 2 minute offenses, and/OR against a pass oriented offense. we are virtually fooling nobody and that is the problem you, me and half the world has against this coaching staff and the cover 2 system. it and THEY have been figured out.

[madlithuanian]

One more gone. Too bad the big bozo is still in place.

 

 

And now Lee is canned as well! http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/sh..._coach_lee.html

[akshaz]

1. we don't have the player personnel to run the cover 2 correctly. we don't have any corners who can play bump and run, we don't have fast safeties (especially at free safety) who can cover, and NOW we don't have a d-line to rush the qb. yet with all this we see no changes in philosophy by our coaching staff on how to utilize the talent we do have.

 

I have two different takes on this. The first is, I am not sure I agree we don't have the personnel to run the cover two. I am still a believer that the vast majority of our problem is Babich, and his inability to run our defense, than personnel itself. This same group of players carried the team to the SB only two years ago. This same group had a top 5 defense. This season, more and more, you heard players speaking out, and IMHO, they were speaking about against Babich.

 

You say our corners can't bump and run, but are you sure that is necessary for the cover two. Under Lovie, our corners have never even tried to bump and run, regardless what corners we are talking about. So are you so sure it is a matter of inability, or being told not to. Vasher himself said he lines up where he is told. As for fast safeties, all I can say is it is Lovie (Mr. Cover Two himself) who has always said the safety positions are interchangable in this system, implying you can use two SS', or at least not a true FS. I have always disagreed, but that is what he said his system uses. And finally, the DL. While I am not saying all our DL is pro bowl, I am saying they all have seemed to go downhill since Babich and Brick took over.

 

So I guess my point is, I still believe our issues on D are FAR more about coaching than simply about talent.

 

As to the second point, that our staff does not alter their philosophy, there is frankly no argument to this. Whether it is due to our not having the horses to run the scheme or not, it wasn't working, and yet we saw few changes. In fact, I would argue the changes we did see only made matters worse, like having our LBs standing over the DL.

 

2. MOST importantly, the cover 2 defense just plain doesn't work anymore and hasn't for the last 3-5 years. it's been figured out by offenses how to beat it. the problem is our coach is not good enough to change the scheme because it is all he knows. without it what can lovie contribute as a head coach? he knows nothing about offense and nothing but the cover 2 type of defense.

 

While I am not, and have never been, a fan of the cover two, I am not sure I would flat say it doesn't work. It has worked, and still can IMHO. Doesn't Carolina run a version of the cover two. Doesn't TB? It can work, but I think the key is a defenses ability to disguise. I mentioned yesterday, but the Score replayed an old (like from week 3) interview w/ Madden, who said QBs too easily knew when we were in the cover two, and would too easily adjust to a pass play that was nearly automatic. If we were in a cover two, it was an easy slant or quick out. If we were a cover one, the QB would hit downfield. Point is, I have seen other defenses use the cover two w/ sucess, but I just do not think our coaches are capable of doing that.

 

Now w/ that said, again, I am not a fan of the cover two. I think it can work, but you need the ideal personnel to run it, and a far superiour ability to disguise what you are running. Further, when I look at other teams that use the cover two, they do far more than just the cover two. They mix it up more, which I always felt we did w/ Rivera. I have read we actually use the cover two only about 30% of the time, so to me, the cover two is not the problem so much as simply the coaching as a whole.

 

Exactly!! It's not the Cover 2 that's the problem; but the way we run it. I also don't really believe that Peanut and Vasher got bad all of the sudden.

 

The Cover 2 works if you have pass rushers like Freeney. IMHO, I believe Lovie's version of the Cover 2 emphasizes playing the run more than Dungy's version. However, I also believe you need tough physical corners that can bump and run. Even if we do get the rare pass rush; we refuse to bump and run, so our defense breaks down.

 

If you guys remember the Giants game a couple years ago, Peanut shut down Plax by playing an aggressive, tough style of play. I think Vasher would get more pics because of this as well. How many times have we gameplanned like this recently? I think our corner play is key to our defense and it's not the players; but the coaches.

 

It's the scheme. Even the best corner would give up easy hitches, curls and slants across the middle if they played 10 yards from the LOS.

[AZ54]

Key point #1: The article clearly states you must have CBs who are jamming WR at the LOS to prevent the quick pass. We simply don't do that.

 

Key point #2: The Dline must get pressure on the QB, this is to handle the 5 and 7 step drops that lead to longer pass routes that will be open in the zone scheme.

 

We've let our entire defensive coaching staff go except for the guy calling the shots, Babich. In terms of placing blame that's about as damning as you can get except it makes absolutely no sense that you'd still leave Babich in place. All the managers I know would look at an underperforming team or group like that and make changes starting with the guy at the top.

 

I don't want Marinelli as our DC but because of the above situation I still feel he was offered more than just a Dline coaching job. Lovie may not want to let go of Babich yet unless he has Marinelli on the staff. IMO that would be a stupid approach for Lovie because if he truly thinks Marinelli will do a better job as DC then he should have fired Babich and clearly offered Marinelli the job. That brings things back to JA versus Lovie and who is calling the shots on the coaching staff. Lovie may be holding out on Babich at the risk of losing his job after next season and JA may be pushing for Marinelli to take over as DC now.

It seems like we're headed for a middle ground where we give Babich one more shot with a new staff while JA tries to bring in Marinelli as Dline coach/Asst Head Coach so he's waiting in the wings to take over next year. This also gives Lovie a way out in mid-season if Babich hasn't found a clue, he can make the change after 4 or 5 games before all is lost.

 

Like I said, it's not what I want but IMO it's how it appears to setting up.

[Mongo3451]

Key point #1: The article clearly states you must have CBs who are jamming WR at the LOS to prevent the quick pass. We simply don't do that.

 

Key point #2: The Dline must get pressure on the QB, this is to handle the 5 and 7 step drops that lead to longer pass routes that will be open in the zone scheme.

 

We've let our entire defensive coaching staff go except for the guy calling the shots, Babich. In terms of placing blame that's about as damning as you can get except it makes absolutely no sense that you'd still leave Babich in place. All the managers I know would look at an underperforming team or group like that and make changes starting with the guy at the top.

 

I don't want Marinelli as our DC but because of the above situation I still feel he was offered more than just a Dline coaching job. Lovie may not want to let go of Babich yet unless he has Marinelli on the staff. IMO that would be a stupid approach for Lovie because if he truly thinks Marinelli will do a better job as DC then he should have fired Babich and clearly offered Marinelli the job. That brings things back to JA versus Lovie and who is calling the shots on the coaching staff. Lovie may be holding out on Babich at the risk of losing his job after next season and JA may be pushing for Marinelli to take over as DC now.

It seems like we're headed for a middle ground where we give Babich one more shot with a new staff while JA tries to bring in Marinelli as Dline coach/Asst Head Coach so he's waiting in the wings to take over next year. This also gives Lovie a way out in mid-season if Babich hasn't found a clue, he can make the change after 4 or 5 games before all is lost.

 

Like I said, it's not what I want but IMO it's how it appears to setting up.

Good points.

 

Let me add one scenario. We have a practice with Supervisors and above that our company puts them on notice that they're on the way out, then give them the opportunity to find a job elsewhere. Lovie and JA seem to have a relationship with Babich and may be giving him a deadline.