Kurt Warner

[kyyle23]

Does anyone remember the game vs. the Giants in '05 I believe where Alex Brown sacked Warner 3 or 4 times? That game gave Alex a nice pay raise and sent Warner's ass to the bench in favor of Eli. If he came to Chicago, would we get the pro-bowl caliber Warner or the punching bag.

Warner's great when he has the guys he has now, or in St. Louis when he had Marshall Faulk, Issaac Bruce, and Tori Holt. Hester would make one helluva of a #3 deep threat for him . . . unfortunately Hester would be his #1 and Bennett or some rookie his #2.

 

NFO mentioned the major upgrades we'd need for him to be successful and I agree with that. The only problem is, how are we going to do all those things? Hell, if we had a #1 WR, and a much improved offensive line, Orton would be real damn good.

 

If Warner came here he'd be retiring much sooner and we'll still be talking about what QB to bring in. This move would be bad for Warner and for the Bears.

 

 

Im not advocating the Bears going after Warner, but Alex brown abused Bob Whitfield that game, that had nothing to do with Warner. Even Michael Vick would have taken 5 sacks that game vs the Bears, the defense was uncorked in that span of games

[kyyle23]

Does anyone remember the game vs. the Giants in '05 I believe where Alex Brown sacked Warner 3 or 4 times? That game gave Alex a nice pay raise and sent Warner's ass to the bench in favor of Eli. If he came to Chicago, would we get the pro-bowl caliber Warner or the punching bag.

Warner's great when he has the guys he has now, or in St. Louis when he had Marshall Faulk, Issaac Bruce, and Tori Holt. Hester would make one helluva of a #3 deep threat for him . . . unfortunately Hester would be his #1 and Bennett or some rookie his #2.

 

NFO mentioned the major upgrades we'd need for him to be successful and I agree with that. The only problem is, how are we going to do all those things? Hell, if we had a #1 WR, and a much improved offensive line, Orton would be real damn good.

 

If Warner came here he'd be retiring much sooner and we'll still be talking about what QB to bring in. This move would be bad for Warner and for the Bears.

 

 

Im not advocating the Bears going after Warner, but Alex brown abused Bob Whitfield that game, that had nothing to do with Warner. Even Michael Vick would have taken 5 sacks that game vs the Bears, the defense was uncorked in that span of games

[kyyle23]

Does anyone remember the game vs. the Giants in '05 I believe where Alex Brown sacked Warner 3 or 4 times? That game gave Alex a nice pay raise and sent Warner's ass to the bench in favor of Eli. If he came to Chicago, would we get the pro-bowl caliber Warner or the punching bag.

Warner's great when he has the guys he has now, or in St. Louis when he had Marshall Faulk, Issaac Bruce, and Tori Holt. Hester would make one helluva of a #3 deep threat for him . . . unfortunately Hester would be his #1 and Bennett or some rookie his #2.

 

NFO mentioned the major upgrades we'd need for him to be successful and I agree with that. The only problem is, how are we going to do all those things? Hell, if we had a #1 WR, and a much improved offensive line, Orton would be real damn good.

 

If Warner came here he'd be retiring much sooner and we'll still be talking about what QB to bring in. This move would be bad for Warner and for the Bears.

 

 

Im not advocating the Bears going after Warner, but Alex brown abused Bob Whitfield that game, that had nothing to do with Warner. Even Michael Vick would have taken 5 sacks that game vs the Bears, the defense was uncorked in that span of games

[kyyle23]

holy jesus, I was wondering why everyone was double posting today. Now I know

[AZ54]

Everyone is missing a piece of the equation for Warner. He is now being talked about as a Hall of Fame candidate. You can offer him all the money in the world but from where he is right now his best shot at getting into the Hall is by staying in Arizona with those WRs and a coach who loves the run game but still will let him throw the ball up to 75% of the time.

 

As for some of the other arguments about him throwing INts or fumbling when under pressure. Arizona hasn't had a great Oline this year and he's taken some big hits. Quite simply he's doing a better job taking care of the ball. Anyone remember Mike Gandy at LT? He's better now than his LT stint with the Bears but who on this board was asking to sign him to fix our LT spot when he last hit FA?

 

As for Leinart, the Cards just won their first home game since 1947! I won't say the entire city is going crazy over this like they do for the Suns but it's building. The team is being run by Bidwill's son now and it seems clear he wants to keep that momentum. They have good things happening for the team such as sold out home games two seasons in a row that they've never had here. That is helping the revenue stream which is helping to sign FA (or better yet keep guys like Fitzgerald). Phoenix is the 5th largest city and a big sports town, this team can be very successful financially by keeping this momentum. All that makes Leinart's salary a moot point. Even Edgerrin James is now indicating he might want to come back here.

[kyyle23]

Everyone is missing a piece of the equation for Warner. He is now being talked about as a Hall of Fame candidate. You can offer him all the money in the world but from where he is right now his best shot at getting into the Hall is by staying in Arizona with those WRs and a coach who loves the run game but still will let him throw the ball up to 75% of the time.

 

As for some of the other arguments about him throwing INts or fumbling when under pressure. Arizona hasn't had a great Oline this year and he's taken some big hits. Quite simply he's doing a better job taking care of the ball. Anyone remember Mike Gandy at LT? He's better now than his LT stint with the Bears but who on this board was asking to sign him to fix our LT spot when he last hit FA?

 

As for Leinart, the Cards just won their first home game since 1947! I won't say the entire city is going crazy over this like they do for the Suns but it's building. The team is being run by Bidwill's son now and it seems clear he wants to keep that momentum. They have good things happening for the team such as sold out home games two seasons in a row that they've never had here. That is helping the revenue stream which is helping to sign FA (or better yet keep guys like Fitzgerald). Phoenix is the 5th largest city and a big sports town, this team can be very successful financially by keeping this momentum. All that makes Leinart's salary a moot point. Even Edgerrin James is now indicating he might want to come back here.

 

I think one of his huge problems with the Rams(at the end) and the Giants was that his hand was broken, then recovering, and he wasnt quite right for a while. I know he had a few surgeries and broke it a few times, and it really affected holding onto the ball. It isnt as if he takes too much time back there

[nfoligno]

I agree w/ you that Warner's best opportunity to continue playing well is to stay in Az. I agree that Warner is also likely to do that. And I further agree that, regardless of the investment made in Leinart, Az is not likely to let Warner go. They may still view Leinart as their eventual starter, but for 2009, I stil think they will be thinking Warner.

 

W/ that said, while Az may not have a great OL, would you not agree it is better than ours? Understand, i consider our OL to be one of the worst 5 in the league. Warner is a very good QB, or even a great QB. At the same time, I think it is a very valid point that much of his succes is due to surrounding talent. The same can be said of any QB. In Az, he may not have a great OL, but again, better than ours. And that aside, he has the best WR combo in the league. Hell, AZ has a 3rd WR (Breaston) who may be better than any of our WRs. If you took Warner out of Az, and gave him a surrounding cast as we have, I think he would get killed. He may not need both a great OL AND great WRs, but I think he needs one or the other. He doesn't have the mobility to buy time to compensate for lesser OL AND lesser WRs.

 

So while I agree w/ you he is likely to stay in Az, the only area I would disagree is the idea that his play isn't puffed up due to his surrounding talent, whether that be OL or WRs.

 

Everyone is missing a piece of the equation for Warner. He is now being talked about as a Hall of Fame candidate. You can offer him all the money in the world but from where he is right now his best shot at getting into the Hall is by staying in Arizona with those WRs and a coach who loves the run game but still will let him throw the ball up to 75% of the time.

 

As for some of the other arguments about him throwing INts or fumbling when under pressure. Arizona hasn't had a great Oline this year and he's taken some big hits. Quite simply he's doing a better job taking care of the ball. Anyone remember Mike Gandy at LT? He's better now than his LT stint with the Bears but who on this board was asking to sign him to fix our LT spot when he last hit FA?

 

As for Leinart, the Cards just won their first home game since 1947! I won't say the entire city is going crazy over this like they do for the Suns but it's building. The team is being run by Bidwill's son now and it seems clear he wants to keep that momentum. They have good things happening for the team such as sold out home games two seasons in a row that they've never had here. That is helping the revenue stream which is helping to sign FA (or better yet keep guys like Fitzgerald). Phoenix is the 5th largest city and a big sports town, this team can be very successful financially by keeping this momentum. All that makes Leinart's salary a moot point. Even Edgerrin James is now indicating he might want to come back here.

[AZ54]

I agree his play is puffed up due to surrounding players, and I guess I was implying that by saying staying here is his best chance to succeed.

 

Cards Oline vs. Bears? First, I don't think our Oline was in the bottom 5, but clearly in the bottom half of of the league. However, Throughout the year the Cards had times where they struggled to run the ball and times when they struggled to pass protect similar to us. Warner got hit a lot in some games so it's not like he's just standing back there all day waiting to throw deep. With such good WRs and QB blitzing the cards Oline is a very risky proposition and I clearly don't think they saw nearly as many 8 man fronts or blitzes as compared to what our Oline saw.

 

As you say, surrounding talent makes others appear better and in this case I think the Cards Oline looks much better because the QB/WR talent is so good. Bottom line: I think the Cards Oline is better but not by much. Get Williams on the field at LT and move St Clair inside while adding a good rookie RT and I think we'd have the better Oline.